Robin Miller is a complete scum bag!

[Andrew Longman]

Excuse me dude, but where did Danica and Buddy rice come from before reaching Indycars? Formula Atlantics! Some 100 HP less then IPS, and they don't race on super speedways.... ;) Not to say that Atlantics isn't a good school, just making a point using 'HP', like dumb a$$ did. Also, if I seem to remember correctly, Meira bought his way into the Menard ride....

This guy is a really moron. He should be sued for slander....

Don't forget to add that the Argent sponsorship is Danica's (at least I'm pretty sure of that) and that many people thought she needed another year in Atlantics before moving up to CCWS let alone superspeedways. And she nearly cause a huge crash in her first race at Homestead last year. And she took out a few at Indy itself.

The writer is playing loose with his NASCAR facts, but the larger point is generally correct that there is too much ride buying in OW racing (and you would likely add NASCAR too, but to a lesser extent) because the stewards of the sport have not enough to ensure there is a viable market for the sponsorship these teams sell.

Its expensive to run these team but they have to generate value well beyond that. It a business and that the first rule of business.

Given the climate Paul Dana did everything necessary to put himself in a seat. He did more than most. Its unfair now to say he didn't belong there. But its also fair to say that the sport would be better served if it correct the economics such that the balance shifted more towards performance than money.

And I think it would be a healthy thing if the requirements for a rookie test and getting a license were looked at carefully. Given the incentives to take the needed money, there should be plenty of checks and balances to ensure there are truly effective checks and balances and that the standards are indeed correct.

[FTG]

I think enough time has passed that I can say this. Carpenter and Dana were ten seconds apart in practice before the first race of the season and they still managed to hit each other. If no one had been hurt, we would've been laughing about it. It's a reminder that at these speeds we should never be laughing about lack of skill. Even with skill, it's a dangerous sport. Without skill, the results can be deadly.

[Ziggy]

Fio1, this is my opinion, but I think your a drama queen/idiot

touting Dana's NINTH PLACE FINISH at last years Homestead shows what an attention whore you are. How many cars finished that race?

Hey, Germany came in second in WW2

[indyfan31]

Excuse me dude, but where did Danica and Buddy rice come from before reaching Indycars? Formula Atlantics! ....
He's talking about experience too. Patrick and Rice were running Karts before they were teens, Dana wasn't in a racecar until his early twenties.

[Fio1]

He's talking about experience too. Patrick and Rice were running Karts before they were teens, Dana wasn't in a racecar until his early twenties.

That doesn't matter, considering George Mack went Indy Car racing straight from go-karts a few years ago. And, he didn't race for 10-years before his Indy gig! But, Dana actually did do some club karting before School FF2000.

Considering driving IRL cars around an oval isn't that difficult, I think Dana had enough experience to do it. No one here can tell me that Jacques Lazier or his brother for that matter were any better when they first drove Indycars. This is not driving champcars at Long Beach, F1 cars at Spa, LMP1 cars at Le Mans or even Porsche Cup cars at the Nordschliefe. That takes a lot more talent then running flat on the floor in these cars. Therefore, he has enough experience to do it. He won in IPS, which are 100 HP more then Atlantics, and run on the same track as IRL.

Why he didn't slow down, I don't know. Considering that he was low (off line) when he t-boned Carpenter, I assume he believed Carpenter was high (which 4 seconds before he was) and was maybe distracted by a slowing Sharp. I don't know. But, he sure didn't hit the guy on purpose. I think the debris might have played a part in it as well. The thing is, jumping to conclusion, putting 100% blame on him 10-hours after the crash is ludicrous.

Ziggy: I don't like White Castle, I especially don't eat breakfast at White Castle. So, i really can care less what some fat, sweaty, white castle assistant manager's opinion is of me. But, thanks anyways, fat boy! :laugh:

[Cam]

Why he didn't slow down, I don't know. Considering that he was low (off line) when he t-boned Carpenter, I assume he believed Carpenter was high (which 4 seconds before he was) and was maybe distracted by a slowing Sharp.

His spotter told him to go low. I want to know why he had only scrubbed 20-30 odd MPH off cruising speed at the point of impact. Some 8-10 seconds after Ed smacked the concrete.

[devilmaster]

This whole debate has gone off on so many tangents.

Fio:

If you wanna bash Robin, realize that 3 other writers all wrote the same comments within 24 hours of Dana dieing. Each writer questioned whether Dana should be out there. John Oro at espn, Curt Cave-in for the Mindyscar, and Mike Harris for the AP. The only difference between the writers was the veracity of their comments.

If you believe Dana was qualified to drive there, good on ya. Many people do not. Writers, other drivers, fans. Comparing Dana to people like the Laziers is not a good argument simply for the fact, (and forgive the crudeness) they didn't die early on in their pro careers.

Ride-buyers are a fact of life. We know they are there and everyone accepts that. If they die in questionable circumstances, people will question why they are in that cockpit. Regardless of the last name.

[Fio1]

Have any of you guys ever seen the show, seconds from Disaster on National Geographic Channel? I would love to produce a show like this for Speed. I bet people would watch it. Putting in investigation like that for this crash would really shed some light. Not just Dana being in over his head.


His spotter told him to go low. I want to know why he had only scrubbed 20-30 odd MPH off cruising speed at the point of impact. Some 8-10 seconds after Ed smacked the concrete.

That's the million dollar question. Maybe he tought that if he went by the crash seen at speed, low, where he tought Carpenter wasn't he'd be able to avoid debris and the car sliding down the track. Maybe, Sharp's car obstructed his vision.

Also, did his spotter then tell him to go high, once carpenter slid down the track?

[Fio1]

This whole debate has gone off on so many tangents.

Fio:

If you wanna bash Robin, realize that 3 other writers all wrote the same comments within 24 hours of Dana dieing. Each writer questioned whether Dana should be out there. John Oro at espn, Curt Cave-in for the Mindyscar, and Mike Harris for the AP. The only difference between the writers was the veracity of their comments.

If you believe Dana was qualified to drive there, good on ya. Many people do not. Writers, other drivers, fans. Comparing Dana to people like the Laziers is not a good argument simply for the fact, (and forgive the crudeness) they didn't die early on in their pro careers.

Ride-buyers are a fact of life. We know they are there and everyone accepts that. If they die in questionable circumstances, people will question why they are in that cockpit. Regardless of the last name.

Fair enough. :cool:

[Napoleon]

[QUOTE=Cam]His spotter told him to go low.[QUOTE]

Could you link to a story that says that? All I saw was that the spotter told him and he acknowledged.

Regardless, his mistake was worse then a "rookie" mistake it was something that would have, at a minimum, earned him a long talk with the stewerds at a club racing event.

[Cam]

[QUOTE=Cam]His spotter told him to go low.[QUOTE]

Could you link to a story that says that? All I saw was that the spotter told him and he acknowledged.

Regardless, his mistake was worse then a "rookie" mistake it was something that would have, at a minimum, earned him a long talk with the stewerds at a club racing event.

Hmmmm..... I can't find it in print at the moment, but it was stated several times on TV Sunday that was what was said. I wonder now if this has been quashed? All I can seem to find is.....


“The spotter made clear the incident,”

[Insomniac]

That's the million dollar question. Maybe he tought that if he went by the crash seen at speed, low, where he tought Carpenter wasn't he'd be able to avoid debris and the car sliding down the track. Maybe, Sharp's car obstructed his vision.

Does this make sense to anyone on this forum who races? Is your first instinct not to slow down? You can certainly assess thinks more easily going slower than faster.

[Insomniac]

His spotter told him to go low.

Could you link to a story that says that? All I saw was that the spotter told him and he acknowledged.

Regardless, his mistake was worse then a "rookie" mistake it was something that would have, at a minimum, earned him a long talk with the stewerds at a club racing event.

I think this probably came about because spotters generally tell their drivers where the car is on the track. Probably didn't say go low, but that the crash/car was high. Which obviously implies the low side of the track is clear

[Joelski]

This whole thread is retarded. Nukes pour favor!

Taking umbrage to the timing of the article is one thing, but righteous indignation is another. Robin wrote the same basic story the other writers did, Speed chose to publish it and when, period. Nothing in the article is less than factual, harsh truth and taking offense the likes of which I've seen in this thread only mirrors the blind ignorance shown by the IRL's head office down to it's fans. Sell a ride to a wanker in champcar and he just clutters the back of the pack, do the same in the IRL and there is a good chance that this will happen. Danica barely escaped a similar fate last year because of her experience and reflexes.

[TedN]

Interesting perspective on the Dana incident.


In discussing the Paul Dana situation this week with a knowledgeable friend, I mentioned that it seemed in "the old days" it was the elite drivers that were killed. In recent years, it seems like it's the newer drivers, the "no-names," that are dying.

My friend put it this way: "In those days, it was the great drivers that were always looking for the edge. And sometimes they didn't find it until they were past it.

"Now, the top drivers, they know where the edge is." (Note - again, technology plays a key role.) "Now it's the lesser drivers, the ones who don't know where the edge is, that get bit."


Link (http://www.edmontonsun.com/Sports/OtherSports/2006/03/31/1513919-sun.html)

Ted

[Fio1]

I think the reason he thinks that in the old days only the 'names' were getting killed is because only the 'names' were making the news. At least the news he read..... :rolleyes:

No body remembers guys like Bruno Deserti, but he was killed weeks before Lorenzo Bandini testing a Ferrrari at Monza. But, everyone remembers Bandini getting killed in a Ferrari at Monaco. There are hundereds of these examples.

Not to mention the fact that Earnhardt, Petty & Moore were pretty big names in my book, and other then Irwin, Rodriguez and Renna were the last drivers to get killed in top-line autoracing in the states. So, I'm not really sure what he is saying. :shakehead

[Insomniac]

I think the reason he thinks that in the old days only the 'names' were getting killed is because only the 'names' were making the news. At least the news he read..... :rolleyes:

No body remembers guys like Bruno Deserti, but he was killed weeks before Lorenzo Bandini testing a Ferrrari at Monza. But, everyone remembers Bandini getting killed in a Ferrari at Monaco. There are hundereds of these examples.

Not to mention the fact that Earnhardt, Petty & Moore were pretty big names in my book, and other then Irwin, Rodriguez and Renna were the last drivers to get killed in top-line autoracing in the states. So, I'm not really sure what he is saying. :shakehead

And somehow you missed Greg Moore...

[rabbit]

Not to mention the fact that Earnhardt, Petty & Moore were pretty big names in my book, No, he remembered Moore. Senna is conspicuously absent though. Unless 1994 is considered the "old days." :eek: :(

[racer2c]

I don't see the relevancy of the authors point. Drivers such as Senna, Moore and Earnhardt lost their lives while pushing the envelope in the heat of battle in a race while Paul Dana lost his life in practice from either a mechanical failure, lack of experience, or just plain choked or maybe a mixture of all three. Dana's incident just doesn't fall into what the writers point is.

[devilmaster]

In my experience as a politician, people get into debates about issues. (naturally)

Sometimes, if it goes on long enough, people get stuck in the minutia of the issue, and they get so caught up in it that the real issue gets lost or forgotten about.

This is a perfect example of that.

[Insomniac]

No, he remembered Moore. Senna is conspicuously absent though. Unless 1994 is considered the "old days." :eek: :(

And somehow I can't read... :) Sorry Fio1.