Whose Fault was turn 1

[Hard Driver]

Sounds like the announcers thought it was 100% Dominguez. Personally I think that Tracy was pretty aggressive trying to cut in front of Dominguez and then make a pass. I think Tracy was counting on a lot of people to give him room and some of the blame should be on a lack of patience for Tracy.

[devilmaster]

You had 7 cars all bunched together from that disaster of a start. I have no proof to back it up, but being so close together, I don't believe they were all going to make it through anyways. Someone was going to tangle regardless.

Mario hitting PT was just the first contact to happen.....

So if you want blame, I say blame the series. That start today was terrible. They have to get the drivers reigned in on the starts. I swear I saw AJ pass people before the S/F line.

We all know why the drivers do it, because once these cars get going, its hard to pass in the race, so every driver knows they must jump the start to gain as many points as possible.

But IMO, today's terrible start was the main reason for the T1 accident. You had 6 or 7 cars trying to go almost 3 wide because they weren't properly laid out to begin with.

[Spicoli]

FTG.

[Lizzerd]

Hopefully, if anybody recorded the race, you can watch it again. I was sitting with a buddy and during the first replay, we both looked at each other and asked who the hell was driving that red car? Bruno. I didn't hear a single thing said about him. I offer my arguements for and against all three as I saw it.

Bruno: PT had his front under Bruno's rear. Even if PT had not been bumped, Bruno would have been t-boned. PT would have had no place to go. Bruno should have seen him and given him some room. In defense of Bruno, however, there was a car on his outside. AJ, I think?

PT: Okay, so maybe PT shouldn't have been so aggressive and tried to stick his nose under Bruno. If that were the case, he would have tucked in behind Bruno and Mario may or may not have rammed him. In defense of PT, he saw an opening and, being PT, went for it. Bruno just didn't see it or couldn't give it away.

Mario: Mario was following closely, trying to not lose a position. Too closely? Perhaps, but closely following an over agressive PT? Perhaps. PT checked when Bruno took the apex, and as stated above that apex that very well could have rightly belonged to Bruno, or PT, depending on how you interpret the above. Then, ka-bump. Mario hits PT. Mario could have backed off and not been nose to tail considering he was inside the others at the time and not hit PT, too.

There. I've placed my blame on three drivers and argued for and against all three. The jury is still out. IMHO, if I was a voting member of the jury, Bruno is the guilty one.

[Hard Driver]

Like I said, Tracy was counting on a lot of people to give him room. A little optimistic if he didn't think Bruno would turn in.

[Lizzerd]

And like I said, I can place blame on all three.

One vote per race fan. :D

[FTG]

Like I said, Tracy was counting on a lot of people to give him room. A little optimistic if he didn't think Bruno would turn in.

Tracy braked hard so Bruno could turn. Mario didn't brake. Pretty simple.

Mario's fault, but not a major sin. Stuff happens. Don't think anyone would've caught Seabass anyway.

[Andrew Longman]

Blame the series? Well putting cars of that size and power on a track as tight as LB and you will likely get what we saw. I was disappointed but not surprised.

Looking at the replay, I doubt PT would have made the corner even if MD and not hit him. There was not enough room under Bruno. Breaking hard late is what cause MD to get into PT.

But maybe not.

What is impressive is how many cars didn't bring our the caution during the day. Seeing how spent Legge was after spinning is real testimony to how hard street racing is. And seeing how making even the slightest mistake corner after corner added up to big deficites behind the leader, its impressive how on top of it these drivers need to be to win.

[Sean O'Gorman]

I'm currently watching the race for the first time (for some reason the DVR cut off the last 25 minutes :saywhat: ), but I think Lizzerd nailed it in his assessment.

[Stu]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ1.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ2.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ3.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ4.jpg

[Stu]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ5.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ6.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ7.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ8.jpg

[Stu]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ9.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ10.jpg

[Stu]

if anyone wants to see it, i'll take the time to edit my recording and capture the video of the crash. should take only 10 minutes or so to do if anyone wants it.

[Badger]

Tracy and Mario are both idiots and attacked the turn so far on the inside, they couldn't help but hit someone. Tracy was nowhere near far enough alongside to even think about sticking his nose in there, but Tracy being Tracy didn't think, and in an instant, a good portion of the front runners were gone.

[cameraman]

I blame who ever it was who waved the green on that train wreck of a start.

That should never have gone green.

[chop456]

Cheever, obviously.

[harryp]

The start was pretty ragged and green never should have been given. But, this is TV time, and it's pretty expensive. Especially when the Arena Football Game, on NBC before LBGP, ran long.

I guess they felt they needed to get the race in and couldn't afford another pace lap.

[mueber]

It was the management's fault. It always is; it has been for years.

Apparently it will continue until GF and KK recognize that the certainty of a first lap accident resulting in a full course yellow destroys the momentum of the race, frustrates the fans, makes for bad television, and makes everyone involved look like an amateur. :mad:

If they just said, “If you are involved in a first lap incident, you’ll start at the back of the next race.” We wouldn’t have any, and in this case, we would have had four more good cars in the race. A race that, let's be honest, was largely populated with wannabees and barely qualified as a parade.

[cart7]

Overall blame? Whomever said that formation was good enough for a green flag.

After that? PT and Mario must have been kidding taking that low line that far into the turn. Bruno on the other hand held his line and decided to put the pinch on those 2 when he could've moved over.

Way too much blame to go around on this but the situation never should've have happened had they flagged the start properly.

[Spicoli]

Stu - thanks for the vid caps.

Makes it even harder to figure out now. I'm with Lizzerd, seems like a lot of blame t spread around. :(

I STILL thought the race was pretty good.

[rabbit]

I don't see how Bruno can be blamed. He was clearly on the racing line, albeit on the inside part of it, and was well clear of Tracy. Yesterday I was blaming Dominguez. But after looking at the vidcaps, I've got to say Tracy was stupid for going down there and Dominguez was stupid for following him. Tracy was going to cause a two-car crash at the very least. Dominguez made sure a few other cars were involved.

[RaceGrrl]

Well, at least it makes for good TV for any gomers who happen to be channel surfing at the start of the race.

[KLang]

Disappointing but not really unexpected start. :(

My vote is Mario is to blame. OTOH had Mario been able to slow up enough it sure did't look like PT would have made it through the corner.

The real shame is the innocent victims. I doubt anyone would have had anything for SB but the race for 2nd place sure would have been interesting.

[rabbit]

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a118/icemanstuewe/champ6.jpg

Somebody needs to tell PT that you can not go three wide into Turn 1 at Long Beach, even with the new configuration. The more I think about it, PT can use Stooopid Mario as a scapegoat all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that if he doesn't make a banzai dive inside Bruno, this whole thing never happens. :thumdown:

[KLang]

On a lighter note:

Tecate Girls!

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/Content/Photos/2006/By400/20060407P_0123.jpg

[Accipiter]

Like I said, Tracy was counting on a lot of people to give him room. A little optimistic if he didn't think Bruno would turn in.

Yup. And the only way Tracy keeps from spearing Bruno is by brake testing Mario. It all starts with Tracy putting himself in a dangerous position.

[Dr. Corkski]

Tony Coatman.

[Racing Truth]

Overall blame? Whomever said that formation was good enough for a green flag.

After that? PT and Mario must have been kidding taking that low line that far into the turn. Bruno on the other hand held his line and decided to put the pinch on those 2 when he could've moved over.

Way too much blame to go around on this but the situation never should've have happened had they flagged the start properly.

I would agree. Plenty of idiocy abounded. Still, PT going three-wide, LATE (IMHO) into the corner, was more than a tad optimistic :shakehead

Too bad, b/c the lack of 'Dinger, Oriol, Bruno, and PT made for a very dull race.

[nrc]

Somebody needs to tell PT that you can not go three wide into Turn 1 at Long Beach, even with the new configuration. The more I think about it, PT can use Stooopid Mario as a scapegoat all he wants, but the fact of the matter is that if he doesn't make a banzai dive inside Bruno, this whole thing never happens. :thumdown:

Why blame Tracy when Mario was already over on the inside when he moved over? Tracy may have been able to back out and fall in behind Bruno if he hadn't been hammered from behind.

Not saying that Tracy is blameless, but thanks to Mario we'll never know whether Tracy would have made it through or not.

[nrc]

So if you want blame, I say blame the series. That start today was terrible. They have to get the drivers reigned in on the starts. I swear I saw AJ pass people before the S/F line.

Looking at the what we can see of the actual start (which isn't much), AJ had one wheel outside Wilson before the start/finish a bit before the start/finish. At that point you can't see the flag man. When the flag man comes into view an instant later the green is already waving.

So AJ didn't pass anyone and he may not have even moved on Wilson prior to the green flag.

More importantly, look at the pics of turn one. AJ is side-by-side with Bruno and not even trying to push his teammate who is single file behind Seabass. In fact the only cars that aren't set to go through turn one in good order are the Forsythe twins.

There was plenty of track for that pack of cars to make it through turn one. The start may have sucked, but it didn't cause the accident.

[nrc]

Yup. And the only way Tracy keeps from spearing Bruno is by brake testing Mario. It all starts with Tracy putting himself in a dangerous position. Brake testing?! That implies unexpected early braking. When you're charging down the inside you've got to expect that you're going to have to get slowed in a hurry before the apex. If you're following somoene you've got to be prepared for that.

[ChampcarShark]

Stooopid Mario.

He should know better than to follow PT.

imho, if we have to blame a driver, my vote goes for PT for pushing his luck, if two wide is hard at turn one, thre wide has proven to be impossible.

[Chief]

I think they should Kneifelize it.....tie a rope to some damn orange cones and make it narrow so some idiot doesn't make it 3 wide and need to make a 90 degree lefty while brake checking someone AND avoiding a T-Bone because HE made a bad move. If dude wasn't in such a hurry to "get to the front" he could have tucked under Bruno with the chrome horn and booted him that way instead...it would have happened. Mario nor Bruno didn't cause this wreck, PT did.

This'll make a great RACE CAR DRIVER episode (again).

PT: "That $@^%(&^ just ruined my season, we're done."
NM: "Stay in the game Paul, this is just the first lap of the first race."

[Accipiter]

Brake testing?! That implies unexpected early braking.

I apologize for using hyperbole, but I stand by my point. If someone dives in in front of you before the apex, you may not be as prepared as you might have been.

[Hard Driver]

I apologize for using hyperbole, but I stand by my point. If someone dives in in front of you before the apex, you may not be as prepared as you might have been.

I think Tracy jumped in front of Mario and took the spot in front of him where he was planning on braking. Then Tracy slammed on his brakes and Mario had no where to go, except where he was planning on going all along, where Tracy's car was.

I like PT, but he f'd up big time IMO.

[Insomniac]

Racing incident. Oriol put it best.

[RichK]

As it was happening live, I saw Tracy try the inside line & overlap cars with Bruno - and I instantly knew nothing good would come of it.

Tracy put himself in a dangerous position, and paid the consequences, IMO.