View Full Version : Phoenix Race Proposal
Yes, another street race. Yes, Phoenix already has a race track. Seems like the iidea is to get enough irons in the fire and hope a couple of them turn into paying gigs. The good news is that most of the fishing appears to be going on in North America.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/sports/articles/0502champcar0502.html
November? Why would they be trying for November? We have a gaping whole in the spring schedule.
November? Why would they be trying for November? We have a gaping whole in the spring schedule.
NASCAR has Phoenix events in both April and November, so I wouldn't say that it's to avoid a NASCAR conflict unless that's the weaker event. In fact I'd say that March would seem like a better choice.
A Champ Car race scheduled for October of this year in South Korea was canceled...Without the Korean race, 14 races make up the 2006 schedule
Has Champ Car made this official yet? This would be strike three for Ansan.
Mayor Phil Gordon said the race would be a private venture with no city subsidies
That would be a change from the way San Jose, Philly, and Las Vegas have been/might be paid for. Do they have a sponsor in mind already?
CART T. Katz
05-02-06, 01:44 PM
i'm all for street races if the layout is good and it's a big attendance draw...
BUT i'm not for them if a perfectly viable purpose built track is within a 30 mile radius they should go there.
oddlycalm
05-02-06, 02:38 PM
F1 didn't draw much of a crowd to either Phoenix or LV during a period when there was a lot more interest in formula car racing than there is now. I was at those races and it wasn't our finest hour. I can't see luring many folks off the golf course for a Champ Car race whether it's April or November. Also, the Central corridor of Phoenix is an area people generally avoid, not flock to. There has been some re-development in the area over the last 10yrs, but it hasn't really taken off.
From the standpoint of competing activities, both Phoenix and LV have a lot going on relative to someplace like Edmonton, or even Philly. For most people in those areas a Champ Car race is going to seem like taking a ham sandwich to a banquet. Both cities have nice race tracks that are close to town and if you can't draw a crowd to those tracks don't bet on a successful downtown race.
oc
Has Champ Car made this official yet? This would be strike three for Ansan.
It still appears on the schedule @ CCWS. :confused:
-Kevin
Screw Ansan. It is done. KK said today all the city council has to do is say "yes" and CC is in Vegas (with some track revision) and Phoenix is looking to be the season ender. (heat) Wouldn't worry about an early season gap IF there is a merger. There should be plenty to fill in. St. Pete, LB, Surfers (?) Motegi, Monterrey. San Anton? :gomer: Rather than worry about where and when I think it bodes well that these places are even being mentioned. Did I say screw Ansan?
Ansan love you long time, Joe. :p
Well, at least they're exploring American venues. I just wish they'd get another race or two in the eastern US, within, say, a thousand miles of me!
DagoFast
05-02-06, 11:08 PM
F1 didn't draw much of a crowd to either Phoenix or LV during a period when there was a lot more interest in formula car racing than there is now. I was at those races and it wasn't our finest hour. I can't see luring many folks off the golf course for a Champ Car race whether it's April or November. Also, the Central corridor of Phoenix is an area people generally avoid, not flock to. There has been some re-development in the area over the last 10yrs, but it hasn't really taken off.
From the standpoint of competing activities, both Phoenix and LV have a lot going on relative to someplace like Edmonton, or even Philly. For most people in those areas a Champ Car race is going to seem like taking a ham sandwich to a banquet. Both cities have nice race tracks that are close to town and if you can't draw a crowd to those tracks don't bet on a successful downtown race.
oc
You pretty much nailed it. If anyone at ChampCar is listening and your serious, I have one word: Tempe.
Well, at least they're exploring American venues. I just wish they'd get another race or two in the eastern US, within, say, a thousand miles of me!
You must be in Florida too. :laugh:
The racing landscape is looking like an Eastern and Western conference to me too.
Not surprisingly, ISC is bringing in heavy hitters to throw a block on this.
http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2006/05/22/daily19.html
Not surprisingly, ISC is bringing in heavy hitters to throw a block on this.
http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2006/05/22/daily19.html
Sperber said the Champ Car races were held at his track for several years, ending in the mid-1990s when the racing industry underwent changes.
Understatement of the decade. :(
-Kevin
well F it then, there's a bunch of "suburb" cities over there, move it to one of them, sprawl is sprawl... :gomer:
trauma1
05-24-06, 08:22 AM
if people remeber isc did the same thing just before the miami race, they fought it tooth and nail before the judge threw the suit out, frances have thier fingerprints all over this one again,
sundaydriver2
05-24-06, 02:52 PM
Make sure you all vote.
www.azcentral.com/news
No question. NASCAR has already enlisted political help who cite "costs to the public." Funny, many politicians claim to be serving the people even when an investment asked for could result in millions for that self-same public. True to form they will usually emphasize what should be GIVEN to the public. If private investment ends up making money on this deal the voices of the (general) public will cry foul, wondering when the people get their cut. Check out Long Beach PRE Grand Prix and what it looks like now. You want a brighter future? INVEST in it! (Edmonton must want a 30 year deal with CC for SOME raeson.) Investment is a message elected officials find very difficult to get across. I'm tired of that "something for nothing" crap. I can't afford it!
Make sure you all vote.
www.azcentral.com/news
That's a poll? Where's the freaking vote or submit button?!? :saywhat:
-Kevin
As of 3:38 p.m.:
Should Phoenix host a Champ Car Word Series race on downtown streets in November 2007?
Yes 54.96%
No 45.04%
Total Votes: 908
You pretty much nailed it. If anyone at ChampCar is listening and your serious, I have one word: Tempe.
How about Falcon Field? Or Williams Gateway?
Wheel-Nut
05-24-06, 06:50 PM
A few more votes cast. As of 6pm cdt . . . .
2421 votes
60% for
40% against
Sean O'Gorman
05-24-06, 06:52 PM
Do city officials know that racing might break out at these three day parties!?!
Damnit, the coolest oval track is 30 miles away. What a mess.
Lizzerd
05-24-06, 07:28 PM
Damnit, the coolest oval track is 30 miles away. What a mess.
I would prefer the oval too, but I still voted yes.
58-42...NO? What th... :saywhat: Some geek take care of this, will ya?
Sean O'Gorman
05-24-06, 08:24 PM
Damnit, the coolest oval track is 30 miles away. What a mess.
Well, clearly oval racing is in a state of dismay in this country and a race there would never work.
58-42...NO? What th... :saywhat: Some geek take care of this, will ya?
The poll is gone now, replaced by:
What are your travel plans for Memorial Day?
Stay home. 100.00%
Travel more than 50 miles. 0.00%
Travel less than 50 miles. 0.00%
Total Votes: 1
Grunschev
05-24-06, 08:43 PM
A city council subcommittee today gave the race a "temporary green flag", meaning that they're going to study it some more. I find the discussion somewhat amusing -- Sperber saying the history of street racing in the US is nothing but failure, failure, failure. PIR would love to be involved in a downtown street race as long as it's NASCAR. It may just be my mind playing tricks on me, but I could swear he used the phrase "street-race losers". I wanna know what Sperber was smoking before that meeting. Can you imagine NASCAR running a street race in Phoenix?
Sperber's big objections seem to be that nobody asked PIR about it, and it would take place a week after their NASCAR race. Do you suppose he is really worried that a champcar street race would hurt his gate at PIR? He's smoking some good stuff.
The Arizona Republic has run articles the last couple days, with today's issue comparing a Champcar to an F1 car and comparing the F1 track with the proposed new track. But the car pictures sure look like an A1GP car instead of a champcar.
Clearly PIR doesn't support open-wheel racing. Buddy backed the IRL and we saw crowds go from 70k to 10k in 2 years. Buddy's gone, the IRL is gone from PIR. All that's left is NASCAR and GA.
Igor
manic mechanic
05-25-06, 12:24 AM
Damnit, the coolest oval track is 30 miles away. What a mess. Rich, I think you dropped a zero...
IMHO, the coolest oval for a ChampCar is about 300 miles West of Phoenix (and twice its length), but the majority of drivers (and the series principals) don't seem to think so.
That being said, ChampCar needs more ovals on the schedule, and Phoenix is one that is conducive to the package due next year, but with ISC holding the reins on the track (and SAFER barriers that are anything BUT safer for a ChampCar) I don't see it coming together in the near future.
If SJGP is no better this year, I'd consider Phoenix as an option if and only if they can replicate the "buzz" around town during race week.
manic
Anal Ventor
05-25-06, 07:08 PM
Sperber's remark in this mornings Republic actually said "that they shouldn't be working with a rinky-dink race but with NASCAR" I about blew my morning coffee through my nose when I read that
Rich, I think you dropped a zero...
manic
:laugh:
Fontana is awesome as well. I think I met you there in ~2000 in fact.
Sitting in Turn 4 at PIR, though, watching proper Indycars come around onto the front straight.....as Joe Dirt would say: Dang!
Popular thing to say, though, (Sperber) whether he knows what he's talking about or not. In terms of size and weight, CC has indeed met many people's definition of rinky dink. Too bad. Probably the only thing that could even begin to change that perception would be a merger, wide use of the name Indy Car and the ability to advertise the Indy 500 winner. Even with the ability to do most of that now The League would fare no better in a quest for a Phoenix street event. Even if the merged product was superior to what CC is now, and what The League professes to be, most would still consider NASCAB to be the only thing out there. It's that perception that has become the most formidable foe of all things resulting from The Split or the Fool's idea of what encompasses a fair offer of merger.
RacinM3
05-30-06, 05:24 PM
Haha....if they think it's gonna cost a lot to upgrade the pavement for a Champ Car race, just wait til they see what a bunch of 3,000 pound NASCAR cars do to it!
Nah, "they" don't want NASCAR, they want NObody! No street racing. No disruptive, loud, expensive, dangerous, races of any kind. On city streets. Purpose built circuit racing only. Now who could possibly be pushing such legislation?? You think the IGS has figured out who the real enemy is yet? :shakehead
Gangrel
06-01-06, 02:28 PM
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/25568/
Looks like KK is attempting to b*tchslap NECKCAR the same way he has been b*tchslapping the Earl for the last 2 years. Seems his first volley may have France and co. on their heels, too. :D
trauma1
06-01-06, 02:29 PM
i hope leagault is next on his radar :rofl:
racer2c
06-01-06, 02:44 PM
WOW! That is some crazy shizzits! That is the first time I've seen anyone openly confront the NASCAR cartel (cabal) and to top it off he referred to their 'mafia-style' tactics which we've been calling NASCAR for years.
Go KK, you rock dood!
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/25568/
Looks like KK is attempting to b*tchslap NECKCAR the same way he has been b*tchslapping the Earl for the last 2 years. Seems his first volley may have France and co. on their heels, too. :D
Well this is sure getting interesting. We know KK had better lawyers then FTG, but how about against Nascar?
Well this is sure getting interesting. We know KK had better lawyers then FTG, but how about against Nascar?
London/Melbourne > Florida? :D
Gangrel
06-01-06, 03:06 PM
I'm not sure I have ever seen the NASCAR brass backpedal....
But then again, I am not so sure I have ever seen them challenged... :D
racer2c
06-01-06, 03:15 PM
Whenever I read comments from the NASCAR HQ for some reason I invision a red faced man with two horns and a forked tail.
"NASCAR understands that in order to keep motorsports healthy and vibrant in North America, it is imperative that race tracks and race fans have a broad "product list" from which to choose."
Sean O'Gorman
06-01-06, 03:40 PM
"They are trying to destroy the history of motorsport," continued Kalkhoven, who co-owns the Long Beach race with Forsythe. "Street racing is where motor racing started, not at some super speedway."
:shakehead
Just shut up Kevin, and get a race at the Phoenix oval.
extramundane
06-01-06, 03:41 PM
:shakehead
Just shut up Kevin, and get a race at the Phoenix oval.
Because open-wheel draws so well there?
Gangrel
06-01-06, 03:42 PM
:shakehead
Just shut up Kevin, and get a race at the Phoenix oval.
Not a surprising argument, considering the source...
Now, back to the world we actually live in.... :D
Sean O'Gorman
06-01-06, 03:53 PM
Because open-wheel draws so well there?
And that is PIR's fault how?
Dr. Corkski
06-01-06, 03:54 PM
Not a surprising argument, considering the source...
Now, back to the world we actually live in.... :DPot, meet Kettle.
As if Phoenix has much of a street racing history for anyone to destroy in the first place.
And that is PIR's fault how?
Going with the earl back in 96 perhaps?
racer2c
06-01-06, 04:00 PM
That's right, NASCAR is totally innocent cuz they are the most popular. Let's blame KK and his comments.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Gangrel
06-01-06, 04:00 PM
Pot, meet Kettle.
As if Phoenix has much of a street racing history for anyone to destroy in the first place.
Ahhh...so you missed the part about Taxicab International trying to set a precident in Arizona, then get similar laws passed in other states? Hmmm.... :saywhat:
cameraman
06-01-06, 04:29 PM
Nice law.
It isn't just 3 day CCWS events that would be banned. It would ban any and all rally races along with anything CCWS, the IRL, Grand Am, SSCA, ALMS or anyone else would try to run on streets. If the county version truly does match the city version that would ban all cross country off road racing in the entire state too.
:shakehead
That is so broadly worded that it would include all the weekend parking lot cone-killing fests and any kart races set up in parking lots. The county version would read: "A. A county shall not sponsor or allow to be held within the county a motor vehicle competition outside of a closed-course motorsport facility at which the sound level exceeds 90 decibels at any time."
Yeah. What's normal city traffic, 80? :shakehead Hell, the whole thing is so blatant why not just word it like, "No motor racing of any type shall be held or promoted anywhere unless by NASCAR or with NASCAR permission and appropriate kickback."?
Wheel-Nut
06-01-06, 05:31 PM
Mo, Larry and Curly?
http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/107147_goodfellas.jpg
If this was 1861 I think I know who those guys would be! :mad:
cameraman
06-01-06, 06:22 PM
Check out this definition:
""Closed-course motor sports facility" means a closed-course speedway or racetrack that is designed and intended for motor vehicle competition, exhibitions of speed or other forms of recreation involving the use of motor vehicles."
No motorized racing outside of a facility that meets the above definition.
It bans all forms of racing at football or baseball stadiums or in basketball arenas. All classes of motorcycle races, monster trucks, everything with wheels & engines.
This is nuts.
Insomniac
06-01-06, 06:49 PM
Because open-wheel draws so well there?
Not to mention ISC is really welcoming ChampCar to their tracks.
racer2c
06-01-06, 07:43 PM
If this was 1861 I think I know who those guys would be! :mad:
Davis, Stephens and Lee?
More like Lincoln, Grant and Sheridan. NASCAR is the big, ChampCar is the small.
It bans all forms of racing...everything with wheels & engines.
Well, at least Drifting will be still be allowed.
cameraman
06-01-06, 08:05 PM
Nobody has ever accused Robin Miller of being a real journalist but his article on Speed is missing some rather important information. He is talking about a bill that is to be introduced today in the AZ legislature. He doesn't say who is sponsoring it and he doesn't give the name of the bill. I looked at the AZ legislature web site and I don't see any bill about motorsports. But then I don't know the lag time between something being introduced and it showing up on the state web site either. Considering the sweeping nature of the legislation that he quoted, a little more information would have been nice.
:shakehead
Just shut up Kevin, and get a race at the Phoenix oval.
What is wrong with that comment?
Surely you've heard of the Vanderbilt Cup...
Nobody has ever accused Robin Miller of being a real journalist but his article on Speed is missing some rather important information. He is talking about a bill that is to be introduced today in the AZ legislature. He doesn't say who is sponsoring it and he doesn't give the name of the bill. I looked at the AZ legislature web site and I don't see any bill about motorsports. But then I don't know the lag time between something being introduced and it showing up on the state web site either. Considering the sweeping nature of the legislation that he quoted, a little more information would have been nice.It has been added on to a marraige license bill. :saywhat:
Wow, no street racing OR street marriages! :flame:
Accipiter
06-01-06, 08:50 PM
Mo, Larry and Curly?
http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/107147_goodfellas.jpg
Tony, Chris and Paulie on their way to the Bada-Bing.
racer2c
06-01-06, 08:58 PM
More like Lincoln, Grant and Sheridan. NASCAR is the big, ChampCar is the small.
Well, at least Drifting will be still be allowed.
but they were the good guys.
Bill sponsor: http://www.azleg.gov/MembersPage.asp?Member_ID=90
The guy who got the bill ammended: http://www.azleg.state.az.us/MembersPage.asp?Member_ID=7
Other info on the bill, "SB1210 -- marriage licenses; applications"
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/DocumentsForBill.asp?Bill_Number=SB1210
http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=%2Flegtext%2F47leg%2F2r%2 Fproposed%2Fh%2E1210tb%2Edoc%2Ehtm
Forty-seventh Legislature APPROP (B)
Second Regular Session S.B. 1210
PROPOSED
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES AMENDMENTS TO S.B. 1210
(Reference to Senate engrossed bill)
Strike everything after the enacting clause and insert:
"Section 1. Title 9, chapter 4, article 8, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 9-500.27, to read:
START_STATUTE9-500.27. Excessive noise at public event; prohibition; definitions
A. A city or town shall not sponsor or allow to be held within the city or town a motor vehicle competition outside of a closed-course motor sport facility at which the sound level exceeds ninety decibels at any time.
B. For the purposes of this section, "closed-course motor sport facility" and "motor vehicle" have the same meanings prescribed in section 12‑556. END_STATUTE
Sec. 2. Title 11, chapter 2, article 4, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by adding section 11-269.09, to read:
START_STATUTE11-269.09. Excessive noise at public event; prohibition; definitions
A. A board of supervisors shall not sponsor or allow to be held within the county a motor vehicle competition outside of a closed-course motor sport facility at which the sound level exceeds ninety decibels at any time.
B. For the purposes of this section, "closed-course motor sport facility" and "motor vehicle" have the same meanings prescribed in section 12‑556."END_STATUTE
Amend title to conform
TOM BOONE
1210tb
05/30/2006
3:53 PM
C: kcb
Here is the fact sheet for the bill: http://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/legtext/47leg/2r/summary/s.1210fs.doc.htm
ARIZONA STATE SENATE
Forty-seventh Legislature, Second Regular Session
FACT SHEET FOR S.B. 1210
marriage licenses; applications
Purpose
Requires marriage licenses to include identifying information for each applicant.
Background
The federal Intelligence Reform and Terrorism Prevention Act (IRTPA) of 2004 changed provisions for assigning Social Security numbers, issuing cards and proving identity. To prove identity, a document must include an individual’s name and other identifying information, such as a date of birth. IRTPA also requires proof of a legal name change in order to change the name on a Social Security card. Acceptable forms of proof include: a marriage document, a divorce decree, a Certificate of Naturalization or a court order. If the acceptable form of proof does not include identifying information, the individual must submit one document with the person’s old name and one document with the new name.
The marriage licenses and divorce decrees in some counties in Arizona do not contain identifying information. To fulfill the IRTPA requirements in these counties, residents wishing to change the name on their Social Security card resulting from marriage or divorce must first obtain an affidavit or petition containing identifying information from the clerk of the court. A certified copy of the marriage certificate or divorce decree, which costs $18.50, is required to obtain an affidavit or petition.
There may be a fiscal impact to the clerk of the court in some counties associated with reprinting marriage licenses.
Provisions
1. Requires marriage licenses to state the name and date of birth of each applicant.
2. Makes a technical change.
3. Becomes effective on the general effective date.
Prepared by Senate Research
February 1, 2006
KM/JR/jas
Would someone tell me WTF motor racing has to do with this? :flame:
coolhand
06-01-06, 09:57 PM
does anyone ahve an image of where the track is proposed to be?
Would someone tell me WTF motor racing has to do with this? :flame:
Boy meets girl, get married, and a race breaks out..... ;)
Typical political BS. :(
-Kevin
Yes, lost amid all this is one of the most grotesque TWELVE 90 degree turns (and a couple of bends) south of city center in crappy neighborhoods (so I read) street tracks I've ever seen! Bounded by 1st to the west, Jefferson to the north, 7th on the east and a wig wag between Lincoln and Buchanan on the south. Pretty bad. Remember, "the festival's the thing."
Opposite Lock
06-01-06, 10:41 PM
Boy meets girl, get married, and a race breaks out..... ;)
Was beach volleyball involved?
:gomer:
Political discussions are against the rules. It's one thing to discuss the legislative process as it relates to this bill. It's not necessary to bring party politics into that discussion.
I think Nascar knows their days are numbered in Phoenix. I don't see that track being around in 10 years. Believe it or not they are developing around that area and there are a lot of houses going up around there. There is one big housing project on top of a hill 1 exit west of the track and more or less above the track. I bet you this has something to do with it.
Insomniac
06-02-06, 04:30 PM
I think Nascar knows their days are numbered in Phoenix. I don't see that track being around in 10 years. Believe it or not they are developing around that area and there are a lot of houses going up around there. There is one big housing project on top of a hill 1 exit west of the track and more or less above the track. I bet you this has something to do with it.
Why? They would effectively relegate all racing to occur there or any other closed course track in Arizona.
cameraman
06-02-06, 04:36 PM
It is the perfect cure to losing one of their CAB dates. Force every single independent racing event in the state to rent your facility or go out of business.
They can't change the fact that one of their CAB races will probably go away. They can make up a large portion of that by gaining 10-20 track rentals from all the current races that the law will ban.
So a memorandum of understanding HAS been signed between Holly Hills and CC but I hear the IRL with Andretti/Greene Promotions and ol' Joe Heitzler are in the game ready to make competitive offers. Doesn't look much like merger activity to me. :( The competitive bidding might just guarantee an inferior show running at a loss. Gee, does that ever happen to cities around the country?
So a memorandum of understanding HAS been signed between Holly Hills and CC but I hear the IRL with Andretti/Greene Promotions and ol' Joe Heitzler are in the game ready to make competitive offers. Doesn't look much like merger activity to me. :( The competitive bidding might just guarantee an inferior show running at a loss. Gee, does that ever happen to cities around the country?
Heitzler works for Holly Hills.
Used to. Forced out. (?) May come back as a 3rd bidder. Mayor is well aware of the campaign against the idea but says it must be studied. I think that means he'd support the idea if he is convinced it'd bring in a lot of $$ to his city. (say goodby to '07? and Holly Hills? Govt. "studies" don't normally move very fast) If San Antonio and Phoenix are drawing such attention it isn't difficult to understand why NASCAB may be initiating their offensive DEfensive strategy. Of course that won't stop them from trying to lock up Mexico and Montreal because as everyone knows sound pollution, danger and public and private business losses just are not important there.
"8 bills that died" (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0623legislature-adjourn0623died0.html)
Here are eight prominent measures that were introduced this session but never made it through the Legislature:
...
Outlawing the Grand Prix: A bill introduced in the waning weeks of the session to ban a proposed Grand Prix street race (by limiting racing events to established tracks) through downtown Phoenix never made it to a vote.
Insomniac
06-24-06, 09:16 AM
"8 bills that died" (http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/0623legislature-adjourn0623died0.html)
:) ChampCar won one!
:thumbup: ...and do I hear correctly, NASCAB is actually going to HELP CC ensure a successful "diverse" event? Make that a double win if true.
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