NZ Climber walks past dying man.

[emjaya]

No,not Off Camber's NZ Climber,a different one.



Double-amputee New Zealand climber Mark Inglis passed a dying Briton on his way to Everest's summit but realising nothing could be done to save him kept trekking to the top.

Story here. (http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/everest-climber-passed-dying-briton/2006/05/23/1148150233168.html)

:eek: I know you have to tough to get to the top,but wow,they must really have wanted it.

[oddlycalm]

Everest is just a more remote and taller version of what we see here every year. A fortune is spent every year on rescue of climbers that have no business attempting such climbs and lack the basic equipment required. Experienced and well-equipped climbers occasionally have accidents or get in trouble due to sudden weather changes, which is understandable, but the endless parade of people who lack any clue as to what they are doing isn't amusing.

oc

[Kiwifan]

Sir Ed speaks (http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11964-5815023,00.html) and Marks bio (http://www.markinglis.co.nz/)

[Hard Driver]

I'm not an expert on this, so count me as uniformed. But I can say that I have lost all respect for this NZ guy if he left a man to die.

Sure, it would be near impossible to carry him down. It would be near impossible to nurse him back to health. But that is what you do. You stop your ascent, and try to drag him back down the mountain.

And if sir Hillary thinks that is right, he knows enought to have an informed decision.

[Kiwifan]

News from England (http://www.theclarion.co.uk/the_north_east/news/NEWS9.html)

[Ankf00]

AMPUTEE climber Mark Inglis has told how there was nothing he or anyone could have done to save a North-East mountaineer from his death on Everest.

somewhat ironic coming from a double amputee who was likely told many times over that he wasn't fit for safe mountaineering

[coolhand]

anyone read "into thin air"? good book on the everst desaster of 96. Similar to this about the decision making people make above 20,000 feet.

[Elmo T]

The only thing I ever climb is the set of stairs to go to bed.

That said, triaging people after a major accident or disaster is difficult enough. Limited resources, limited emergency workers, limited time. Actions will be taken to save those who can be saved.

I hear what they are saying about it being an extreme environment and all, but these folks were going UP the mountain. And they were climbing a mountain - not struggling for their own lives or anything. :shakehead

[Robstar]

Yeah, I would have thought it was just human nature to help anyone anywhere... :shakehead

[RichK]

What's at issue is whether he was effectively dead or not.

From what I've read, the healthy climbers are barely alive in many ways, and don't have the strength to get someone down the mountain (crossing ladder bridges in crampons, only so much oxygen, etc.).

Crazy way of life, either way.

[emjaya]

From what I have read about Everest they walk past quite a few dead bodies on the way to the top.There is no way to bring a corspe down from so high without risking more lives so where they drop is where they stay. :shakehead

[Kiwifan]

Rob Hall (http://www.everesthistory.com/climbers/robhall.htm) second paragraph from the bottom just in case you think all Kiwis are bastards. ;)

I've been in the same room as Sir Ed and have the utmost respect for him and to be honest, I think he is morally right.

I know Mark Inglis, I know the guy who rescued him from the mountain and the cop who masterminded his rescue. I know the work that Mark has done here in NZ to promote those in life who are less fortunate than ourselves. I knew Rob Hall and I respect that he stayed with his clients and payed the ultimate price.

From the huge debate going on down here today it's clear that; most people are now climbing Everest for the boasting rights and not for the love of climbing. Most people on these trips don't have the necessary skills to help themselves let alone anyone else, nor indeed rescue them from over 20000 feet. Climbing has now become a business with people paying up to $NZ75000 to "climb" the mountain. The word from quite a few NZ climbers who have been on the mountain seems to be he was too far gone to have been helped. Who knows?

I'm not sticking up for Mark or saying he was right or wrong. If you could see him bouncing around on his new legs living life to the full I reckon you would admire him. There were 39 other people up there. He did stop and told the world about it. Should he have stayed with David? Should anyone else have stayed? Someone with all of their limbs? I don't know. Who is right, who is wrong? David's parents hold no malice to the other climbers and admit he was ill prepared for the climb but I still hear Sir Ed saying no climb is as precious as a mans life.

I'm just glad that it wasn't me who had to make the call.....

Russell.

[dando]

Rob Hall (http://www.everesthistory.com/climbers/robhall.htm) second paragraph from the bottom just in case you think all Kiwis are bastards. ;)

Nah, just the one that races in the EARL and those shaggers in America's Cup. ;)

Heck of an ethical dilemma. Glad this problem dint come up during my Philosophy classes @ OSU.

-Kevin

[devilmaster]

I had reserved a post and judgement on this until I did some research and reading....

The reason being that naturally, it seems morally and ethically wrong to walk by a dying man, which made me believe there is a background as to why they would leave him to die.

A gander round www.everestnews.com, which has blog like entries of climbers, gives some info as to the scope of danger and extreme rigors that a climb requires.....

Almost all blog posts I have read mention the Sherpas, and alot of blogs specifically thank them. My question then becomes why did the guy attempt the summit alone?

I am amazed at what it takes to climb Everest. Its basically a 2 month journey where you may have, at tops, 2 attempts at the summit. From what I have read, the summit attempt itself is basically a 16 hour round trip where, if you make it, you have maybe 15 minutes to enjoy the sights around on top of the world.

[edit]Wiki already has this story posted, and it says that they did give him bottled oxygen.

This will (and probably should) re-ignite the debate whether or not Everest should be climbed by anyone other than the top climbers in the world.

[nz_climber]

I knew this would come up

first of all picking on mark for this is wrong, the guide and sherpa stopped to see if there was anything to do - see the quote below, they did try..



"One of Russell's Sherpas checked on him and there was still life there," Linda Sharp told her local newspaper, the Northern Echo. "He tried to give him oxygen, but it was too late."


and like rusty said there was a total of 40 people that hit the summit of everest that day - and from what I know and have read they would have all reached the top with hours of each other - so there was others there too - why blame it on the guy with no legs.

There has been alot of big accidents/incidents over the years on everest - may 1996 being one of the worst, and it always comes down to this: over 8000m you are dying, nothing you can do about it, except fight it off for as long as possible, logic is blurred, time is warped, energy is used to breathe.. I have been over 5000m while i was in nepal, and that was hard enough (loss of breathe, hard to move, headaches) I can't begin to imagine what 8000m or higher must be like..

I fully admire mark inglis for what he has done since his accident on Mt cook over 20 years ago, and continue to now.. im sure if they could have done anything to help they would have stopped and done what they could.

end of my rant...

[Kiwifan]

They have just had an interview on TV with Dr Jan Arnold, Rob Halls widow who has climbed Mount Everest. In 1996 they had a client get sick on a climb and the decision was made to go back down the mountain.

She stated, as has Aaron that over 8000m you are not in charge of rational thoughts and control of your own body movements. Her view was that over 8000m it was almost impossible to rescue someone, "you might as well be on the moon." "You cannot eat, you cannot make rational thoughts and it is nearly impossible to even drink." "I believe it was (just) Mark who radioed down the mountain to ask for advice and was told because of Davids condition, the time spent without oxygen and the poor choice of clothing (gloves) it was not possible to save him." "Having climbed the South Face, having had to descend to save someone and knowing how your body reacts over 8000m I believe there was nothing that could have been done to save this man." "Rob paid the ultimate by staying with his client." " I would not dare to say anything against Mark as I know how hard it can be on the mountain and each of those 40 people who passed him will have to live with that for the rest of their lives."

Great interview and I give full credit to John Campbell who let Jan speak with such feeling and passion even though they were over time, TV wise.

Wasn't it just the other day we were going to a net site dealing with "what would you do" questions? It's a funny old world we live in eh?

Take care all, I'm done for a bit. Gotta go organise seating for October. ;)

Rusty.

[oddlycalm]

Oooooops. Said they were pretty surprised to see him walking around base camp... :saywhat:
2nd "abandoned for dead" climber lives (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/28/world/asia/28everest.html?ex=1306468800&en=8b3abe77df91855e&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

[emjaya]

Local news said he became delirious and would not decend after reaching summit,so at 7.00pm was left there for the night.Sherpas went back for him in the morning.

Sherpas,imho,the real heroes of Everest.

http://www.thesundaymail.news.com.au/common/imagedata/0,1658,5160029,00.jpg
Dead bodies seem to litter the place,must be hard to tell the dead from the nearly dead. :saywhat:

[pineapple]

An update on the story. Inglis now says that his original statement "that his team radioed down to his expedition leader about a dying climber and was told to continue on to the summit" is a mistake.

Everest story (http://www.comcast.net/news/national/index.jsp?cat=DOMESTIC&fn=/2006/07/06/428930.html&cvqh=itn_everest)


The first double amputee to summit Mount Everest is backing off a claim that earned him international condemnation: That his team radioed down to his expedition leader about a dying climber and was told to continue on to the summit.


But in a statement to The Associated Press Thursday from Christchurch, New Zealand, where he is recuperating after having five fingers and parts of his leg stumps amputated from frostbite, Inglis now says the cold, strain and lack of oxygen might have caused him to mix up the details.

[emjaya]

after having five fingers and parts of his leg stumps amputated from frostbite

:saywhat: :eek: