The Turth Comes Out About Honda

[sundaydriver]

I have to credit to Speedvis for finding this.

All I can say is unbelievable.

http://sports.yahoo.com/irl/news?slug=irlhondasuccess&prov=st&type=lgns


When Clarke entered the room, there was a stunned silence. The fact Honda was joining the IRL as a third engine manufacturers wasn't as shocking as the fact it was kept a virtual secret.

IRL officials had traveled to Twin Ring Motegi to meet with Honda executives last year during the annual CART event. When word spread that Honda would join the IRL, officials from both sides discounted the possibility.

But last May 23, the relationship was confirmed.

The actual genesis to Honda's decision came a year earlier, when Clarke met with officials from Ilmor Engineering, which was in its second year of engine involvement with the IRL.

"I met with Paul Ray after the Michigan 500 in 2001," Clarke recalled. "That is when it started. We were in conversation and actually sent a letter of intent through the chain-link fence at Rockingham, England. Between us, that is when things really started happening. We tried to be as discreet as we could."

After Ray was able to sell Clarke on the idea of the two sides working together on an IRL project, the Honda motorsports head began discussions with the IRL.

:shakehead :shakehead

[JoeBob]

I remember reading that Honda originally planned to badge the Illmor so that their CART teams could run Honda engines at Indy, while they continued to manufacture their own engines in CART. It wasn't until later that they decided to axe the CART program.

[Ziggy]

There is an ugly entire chain of events present here. It has to do with Captain Liver Spots doing some less than open meetings with engine folks from Japan in New York City, way before Sir Raga dropped his own little bomb. It seems he broke some laws pertaining to "fiducial responsibility." In car mechanic's terms, He was doing business with someone else while he sat on the board of CART. (which I understand is illegal, due to the fact that you are bound to serve the corperation that you represent in its best interests)

The research has been done, by lawyers. It wont stand up in court (or so I was told) but the time line and deals do point to Penske being not on the up and up with regard to his business partners. (CART Board)

Ziggy

PS - Its a very long story. It even involves Toyota versus Honda and spacergate. Spy versus Spy stuff. I think it happened......

[Napoleon]

Bruce Martin, ultimate IRL shill.

[racer2c]

""Because of the Indy 500, because of the growing exposure and involvement with the IRL, we felt it was important to get involved in the IRL," Clarke said...""

Well Clarke ol' pal, how do you like all that exposure? Enjoy.

[JLMannin]

Originally posted by racer2c
""Because of the Indy 500, because of the growing exposure and involvement with the IRL, we felt it was important to get involved in the IRL," Clarke said...""

Well Clarke ol' pal, how do you like all that exposure? Enjoy.

I guess that Goodyear qualifying on the front row at indy in 1995 and blowing by the pace car at the end and was not enough exposure.

Of course, somehow, the <300,000 attendance and <4.5 rating for the 2003 IRL 500 will somehow be bigger and better than the 400,000+ and 7.X from the 1995 edition.

I know, ratings points per car starting the race - that's the answer!! :shakehead :shakehead

[racer2c]

Originally posted by JLMannin
I guess that Goodyear qualifying on the front row at indy in 1995 and blowing by the pace car at the end and was not enough exposure.

Of course, somehow, the <300,000 attendance and <4.5 rating for the 2003 IRL 500 will somehow be bigger and better than the 400,000+ and 7.X from the 1995 edition.

I know, ratings points per car starting the race - that's the answer!! :shakehead :shakehead


Why bring up '95? Oh that's right, that's the last time Indy meant something.

Ratings? That's what they tell me.

Here's a quarter, buy a clue.

[cart7]

Ahh.. but the 500 didn't and doesn't mean that much.


"The Indy 500, for us, was actually another race. Sure, we knew it got us a lot of exposure and, of course, we wanted to win that race as much as we want to win any race," he said. "But you have to look at the objectives of our program as it was outlined. It's the same today as it was back then.

[JLMannin]

Originally posted by racer2c
Why bring up '95? Oh that's right, that's the last time Indy meant something.

Ratings? That's what they tell me.

Here's a quarter, buy a clue.

And what clue should I buy with my quarter? I'll even use one of the Indiana state quarters with the open wheel car sans crapwagon-style air-box to pay for my clue. I'm contending that the ratings for the IRL 500 have dropped by ~40% since the tantrum, and that the opportunity for Honda to reap glory from winning the 500 is diminished today in comparison to eight years ago.

What is your point of view?

[racer2c]

Originally posted by JLMannin
And what clue should I buy with my quarter? I'll even use one of the Indiana state quarters with the open wheel car sans crapwagon-style air-box to pay for my clue. I'm contending that the ratings for the IRL 500 have dropped by ~40% since the tantrum, and that the opportunity for Honda to reap glory from winning the 500 is diminished today in comparison to eight years ago.

What is your point of view?

Your original wording had an apologetic tone to it. My interpretation of your post was that you were suggesting that Honda would be getting their proclaimed exposure. But what do I know, I sell clues for a quarter. ;)

[Turn7]

Originally posted by racer2c
Your original wording had an apologetic tone to it. My interpretation of your post was that you were suggesting that Honda would be getting their proclaimed exposure. But what do I know, I sell clues for a quarter. ;)


I think you are confused. I didn't get any apologetic connotations out of it.

Are you sure you aren't confusing the < symbol of less than with greater than.

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Turn7
I think you are confused. I didn't get any apologetic connotations out of it.

Are you sure you aren't confusing the < symbol of less than with greater than.

Go back and read his first line.

[Turn7]

I did and???

[racer2c]

Originally posted by Turn7
I did and???

Now which one of us is confused? Eh? Eh?

[JLMannin]

I went back and re-read my first line, and I guess I don't get it. So maybe someone brighter than me can fill me in?

If I recall correctly, the '95 500 was the first race where the Honda motor was really competitive. It was also the first year since Firestone had returned to the speedway since a long absence, and it was quite ironic that a guy named Goodyear racing on Firestones was on the front row with a Honda powerplant after Rahal's embarassment the previous year. Honda got a lot of positive exposure from that.

Fast forward to 2002. Honda states as the primary reason of switching from CART to IRL is the exposure that Indy brings. As we all know, Indy is not what it used to be. The crowds are down, the TV ratings are down, the press coverage is down, the room nights at Indy are down, the buzz is gone, and on and on. I pointed out the attendance and the TV ratings decreases in my original post as evidenct that was contrary to the "increased exposure" that the IRL affords. I then adopted cynicism and lemming logic to spin the abysmal post '95 figures into some sort of positive growth statement, a tactic that the IRL and lemmings seemed to have latched onto lately.

I guess I just don't get it. I don't know what is meant by an "apolegetic tone". Is mentioning Scott Goodyear some sort of secret lemming handshake or something?

[nrc]

I've pointed this out before. Honda was completely duplicitous in the way they handled the engine issue.

When CART decided to go to the 3.5 engine their outrage was based on their claim that they couldn't have such an engine ready in time. That was a lie all along.

Honda felt like a woman scorned after spacergate and specifically set out to destroy CART. The stupidity of this is that most of the people who supported the decisions that offended them so are no longer in CART anyway and Honda is either directly or indirectly supporting those people in the IRL.

The people Honda has hurt are the people that supported them all along - the fans.

[Hurling Frootmig]

Spacergate and Honda's present statements about the IRL are difficult to bring together.

The found a loop hole in the rules that allowed them to get some extra turbo boost. They got caught and a rule change was made. They got mad. They threw a fit and critized CART about changing the rules and any other stupid excuse they could come up with.

Help me out with this. The IRL is a dictatorship and able to make quick decisions. How does that differ from what CART did. A similar situation could easily occur and I predict that Honda pitches a fit like a 2 year old that just had his favorite cartoon turned off.

Somehow Clarke's logic is that since the IRL is a dictatorship that all is better. It seems to have worked real well in Iraq.

[Treeface]

Remaking CART 1995. With the same self aggrandizing buffoons running (ruining) a series. Did he really admit to passing notes thru the fence? They couldn't just meet in an office?? :shakehead Alot of this stuff comes from folks proclaiming their own importance and then hearing their own echo inside the paddock.

[Kiwifan]

You guys are way too tuff on Honda. They are still on our side. Honest. gregs at CanadianRacing.com put up this link which is just too funny not to put up. (Hope you don't mind gregs)

Honda is on our side (http://www.honda-racing.co.uk/cart/calendar.php)

Ya gotta laugh. I don't mean to take anything away from the seriousness of this thread, but......

Rusty.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by Hurling Frootmig
Spacergate and Honda's present statements about the IRL are difficult to bring together.

The found a loop hole in the rules that allowed them to get some extra turbo boost. They got caught and a rule change was made. They got mad. They threw a fit and critized CART about changing the rules and any other stupid excuse they could come up with.

Help me out with this. The IRL is a dictatorship and able to make quick decisions. How does that differ from what CART did. A similar situation could easily occur and I predict that Honda pitches a fit like a 2 year old that just had his favorite cartoon turned off.

Somehow Clarke's logic is that since the IRL is a dictatorship that all is better. It seems to have worked real well in Iraq.

:thumbup:

[nz_climber]

nice 1 rusty .... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: