Uh-oh...

[Gangrel]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/indycar/27737/

Apparently no one explained to Tony boy that if you're gonna' posture, you gotta' decide what you want to posture about. :gomer:

When the time comes to talk to my kids about why it is bad to smoke crack, I know just the person to use as an example.

[racer2c]

TG = “We're going to get back together here in a few weeks, but certainly nothing is imminent,” George said. “We've got a lot of work ahead of us. We're still getting to know one another, still trying to understand one another..."

He went on to say..."Kevin uses really big words and I have to ask Fred what they mean. This could take a long time."

Keven responded "I have to use really small words or else Tony gets confused. He's always whispering to Mr. Nation so this could take awhile."

[KobySon]

“That is a story entirely fabricated by the people who wrote the story," George said.


“It's so far from being close to being done, it's not even worth talking about,”

Why is it that it sounds so bad in a sentence when people say the same word twice in a sentence? uhh :gomer: uhh

[Louie]

Here's something to chew on. :flame:


A source close to one of the sides said George is dragging his heels on the most sensible issue. Champ Car co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven has deals in place for engines and a new chassis in 2007 that are cost-efficient, but George is paranoid that a merger would look too much like a Champ Car win and IRL surrender.

http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_3986988

[KLang]

'Champ Car win and IRL surrender'

Works for me. :D

[devilmaster]

Here's something to chew on. :flame:

Not surprising.

This isn't much different than 95, except for one big thing. Tony doesn't have the support like he did back then. Almost everyone (well, except a few paranoid gomers at TF, and maybe foyt) who has any interest in this sport anymore feels a merger is a must for the betterment of the sport.

But all of it could do down the drain cause the megalomaniac is afraid of looking bad in the end.

[Wally]

Here's something to chew on. :flame:

http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_3986988

Or this one.....
""George is the one who created the schism, using his Indy 500 to strong-arm control of the sport away from the racing teams. And despite the sport having been lapped several times by NASCAR and in danger of becoming irrelevant, George's self-interests keep getting in the way.

After a weekend report saying that a merger was close, George this week lambasted the report and said the two units aren't that close yet. There's simply no more room for posturing at this point in the fray, so anything George says sounds like the bitter ruminations of a man oblivious to the fact he's bleeding to death.
""

:rofl:.... Incoming!!!!!

[Gnam]

'Champ Car win and IRL surrender'

Works for me. :D
Why can't a vision revision handle this? It worked for engine leases, factory teams, and road courses. Why not the DP01 and turbos?

[pchall]

'Champ Car win and IRL surrender'

Works for me. :D


I like the way you think. Unfortunately, TG's deficiencies will drag this out for years as his ego endurs the death of a thousand paper cuts.

[cameraman]

No, that is the whole problem. His ego is immortal thus things will never change.

[Andrew Longman]

It is also generally a bad idea to accuse reporters of fabricating stories. Unless it is a Dan Rather-W-Guard-duty-forged-letter kind of thing where you can prove the reporter was in the wrong, you can bet a reporter will produce a tape recording of the quote... Unless he really did fabricate it.

[oddlycalm]

'Champ Car win and IRL surrender'

Works for me. :D All your bases are belong to us. :thumbup:

Here's the quote from Keisser that tells me he totally grasps the situation.

One gets the feeling that even a merger would prove rancorous as long as George is involved.

oc

[Insomniac]

Here's something to chew on. :flame:

http://www.presstelegram.com/sports/ci_3986988

Not surprising, but disappointing nonetheless.

[TravelGal]

'Champ Car win and IRL surrender'

Works for me. :D

Indeed.

Apparently this is one that didn't go over his head. It looks like it, BECAUSE IT IS.

[Gangrel]

Why can't a vision revision handle this? It worked for engine leases, factory teams, and road courses. Why not the DP01 and turbos?

"When I founded the league and made the shift to normally aspirated engines and a chassis that looks like a humpback whale on a flatbed truck, it was a logical step towards my ultimate goal of shifting to a 2.65L turbo and a common chassis with the Champ Car World Series."

How's that sound for revisionspeak? :gomer:

[grungex]

I think you're being rather rude to humpback whales and flatbed trucks...

[FanofMario]

Is anybody surprised about George's reaction? This whole mess has always been about him. What an absolute ******* tool! :(

[pkvracing12]

Is anybody surprised about George's reaction? This whole mess has always been about him. What an absolute ******* tool! :(
AMEN :)

[mueber]

So…the moron is already making excuses for yet another "failed because he got cold feet" merger attempt. Can we go back to our regularly scheduled series now?

I’ve stayed out of the discussion of a merger because I feel there is nothing to discuss. Thus far I’ve been proved right. My hope is that Kalkhoven doesn’t make the mistakes of the past and forget to run his business while he’s chasing after another fantasy that isn’t gonna happen.

Kevin, a merger won’t save the sport, Champ Car wining will save the sport.

[gjc2]

a merger won’t save the sport, Champ Car wining will save the sport.

You are absolutely correct. I really don't think a merger will ever happen. As I have posted elsewhere on Off Camber, there will be a mass defection from the IRL to Champ Car. TG will have no choice but to fold the his series. He may still try to run the 500 as a one-off event.

George

[cart7]

:rolleyes:

Geez Tony, you tried to deny you never made the short trackers oval racing vision statements a couple years ago and yet public quotes from you 8 - 10 years ago saying it were readily available.

Tony, please understand all the ramifications of that addiction problem you had for a few years there. You've fried vital brain cells that aid in clarity of thinking and memory. Please keep a notebook handy or an aid to help you remember and also formulate your sporadic synapse firings into cohesive speech. :gomer:

[Insomniac]

So…the moron is already making excuses for yet another "failed because he got cold feet" merger attempt. Can we go back to our regularly scheduled series now?

I’ve stayed out of the discussion of a merger because I feel there is nothing to discuss. Thus far I’ve been proved right. My hope is that Kalkhoven doesn’t make the mistakes of the past and forget to run his business while he’s chasing after another fantasy that isn’t gonna happen.

Kevin, a merger won’t save the sport, Champ Car wining will save the sport.

I don't think they're making that mistake. They are actively pursuing new races, bringing aboard a new chassis and a "new" engine. They aren't putting their plans for the future aside.

[Gangrel]

I think you're being rather rude to humpback whales and flatbed trucks...

Oh, yeah....no offense was ever intended to humpback whales or flatbed trucks.

Dang! I have probably offended pigs, slugs, and sloths at some point in the last decade. I guess I will have to start issuing apologetic statements. Anyone here well versed in issuing press releases? :rofl:

[CART License]

Absolute ******* tool! OMG I have had it..I thought we all could get along ,,,don’t want it now. Let the old CART boys come back and let the fN IRL die due to lack of funds

[Insomniac]

Absolute ******* tool! OMG I have had it..I thought we all could get along ,,,don’t want it now. Let the old CART boys come back and let the fN IRL die due to lack of funds

It will be interesting to see if anyone who jumped to the IRL comes back in 2007. I'd personally be surprised if they did. That would mean no more Honda bucks.

[Andrew Longman]

It will be interesting to see if anyone who jumped to the IRL comes back in 2007. I'd personally be surprised if they did. That would mean no more Honda bucks.

They won't likely be getting Honda bucks either way. If they want Honda money or any engine money they will likely need to find a home in ALMS or elsewhere.

If they want to earn their money more "honestly" by delivering sponsor value, and do it at a managed cost, They will have to compare CC to IRL. I suspect the best answer for many will be a partial or whole CC schedule with a Indy one off.

[Louie]

They won't likely be getting Honda bucks either way. If they want Honda money or any engine money they will likely need to find a home in ALMS or elsewhere.

If they want to earn their money more "honestly" by delivering sponsor value, and do it at a managed cost, They will have to compare CC to IRL. I suspect the best answer for many will be a partial or whole CC schedule with a Indy one off. Works for me, but what does TG get? I'm guessing that Tony has (will) agreed to pay a lot of the freight for the Indy one offs. We know he has recently anyway. But if teams can run the more affordable CC series and be subsidized to run Indy why go IRL at all?

I'm not sure TG is so stupid to not realize that this kills his league. I realize some will dispute the last point. :D

[Insomniac]

They won't likely be getting Honda bucks either way. If they want Honda money or any engine money they will likely need to find a home in ALMS or elsewhere.

If they want to earn their money more "honestly" by delivering sponsor value, and do it at a managed cost, They will have to compare CC to IRL. I suspect the best answer for many will be a partial or whole CC schedule with a Indy one off.

I would just be surprised to see Honda just let them walk away over Yen. After all, they are still supplying the engines. It's not only the IRL who will look bad in all of it. They will want people with some name recognition behind them and a full field at Indy as well.

[KLang]

I would just be surprised to see Honda just let them walk away over Yen. After all, they are still supplying the engines. It's not only the IRL who will look bad in all of it. They will want people with some name recognition behind them and a full field at Indy as well.

But nowadays who besides the fanatics knows or cares what brand of engine is in the car? It's not like the old days when there was an actual fight for supremecy between the engine manufacturers.

[Andrew Longman]

I would just be surprised to see Honda just let them walk away over Yen. After all, they are still supplying the engines. It's not only the IRL who will look bad in all of it. They will want people with some name recognition behind them and a full field at Indy as well.

I agree Honda does not want to look bad in all this, but they've agreed to supply engines to anyone who will pay for them until 09. And they've agreed to lower the price for one off and season leases. And they honored existing team contracts. They can rightly say that's enough. Its TGs job, not theirs to underwrite the series or otherwise somehow make it economically viable.

If TG doesn't do that, no one is going to say it was Honda's fault.

[Insomniac]

But nowadays who besides the fanatics knows or cares what brand of engine is in the car? It's not like the old days when there was an actual fight for supremecy between the engine manufacturers.

That I do not know, but as a company, would you want to be associated with the bad press? You would have teams leaving, you can't fill Indy. I mean, if AGR, Penske, TGR, RLR left, that's 10 cars gone. Sure, they'll be back for Indy, but if Honda isn't helping with engines, it's going to be hard to get all those spots filled. If they all jumped ship, it would be a giant blow to TG and the IRL and barring some drastic changes or Tony bucks, it would be a disatser for the IRL.

Speaking of sponsorship, is this finally the year Marlboro is done?

[Insomniac]

I agree Honda does not want to look bad in all this, but they've agreed to supply engines to anyone who will pay for them until 09. And they've agreed to lower the price for one off and season leases. And they honored existing team contracts. They can rightly say that's enough. Its TGs job, not theirs to underwrite the series or otherwise somehow make it economically viable.

If TG doesn't do that, no one is going to say it was Honda's fault.

I would think at that point, Honda would just leave or pull out. They have a vested interest in keeping it a viable series. If they cut the Yen to the point that people jump ship, it seems to me there's no point to even be there anymore.

[grafddrx7]

I would think at that point, Honda would just leave or pull out. They have a vested interest in keeping it a viable series. If they cut the Yen to the point that people jump ship, it seems to me there's no point to even be there anymore.

I think Honda is staying with Earl for the time-being simply to wait and see if any type of "merger" happens soon enough to make staying in American OW worthwhile. They've already de-tuned the engines a little bit for reliability, and further development on the engines has stopped. While they've lowered the buy-in point for the engines, the only real cost they have at this point is rebuilds. No reason to spend millions to develop an engine to beat your other engines...

If they can hang for even the next season with no real additional cost, and without a mass exodus back to CC, then there's really no reason for them not to stay. Mindy will keep their name in the press until the ALMS program gets on firm footing.

However, if by next season the ALMS deal finds some success and FTG keeps dragging his knuckles, expect them to be gone.

[Andrew Longman]

I would think at that point, Honda would just leave or pull out. They have a vested interest in keeping it a viable series. If they cut the Yen to the point that people jump ship, it seems to me there's no point to even be there anymore.

Leaving may take the form of Toyota. They didn't so much leave as people didn't want their engines unless they were going to become more competitive and T was going to pay to use them. T wasn't willing to do either so they had no "customers".

One Honda stops paying, it will be hard for teams to replace that money and they will have to go where the income exceeds the cost (just as they did when they left CART for the IRL). That may not be CC but it isn't likely to be the IRL in its current form.

So while Honda may be around to supply engines, they may not have anyone to buy them.

[Insomniac]

I think Honda is staying with Earl for the time-being simply to wait and see if any type of "merger" happens soon enough to make staying in American OW worthwhile. They've already de-tuned the engines a little bit for reliability, and further development on the engines has stopped. While they've lowered the buy-in point for the engines, the only real cost they have at this point is rebuilds. No reason to spend millions to develop an engine to beat your other engines...

If they can hang for even the next season with no real additional cost, and without a mass exodus back to CC, then there's really no reason for them not to stay. Mindy will keep their name in the press until the ALMS program gets on firm footing.

However, if by next season the ALMS deal finds some success and FTG keeps dragging his knuckles, expect them to be gone.

I'm sure Honda has their expenses down on the engine since it's a spec engine, but RHL and AGR didn't jump ship to the IRL because of all their sponsorship. People are speculating Honda will pull that extra money out of the series, but IMO it would be a surprise if they do.

[Insomniac]

Leaving may take the form of Toyota. They didn't so much leave as people didn't want their engines unless they were going to become more competitive and T was going to pay to use them. T wasn't willing to do either so they had no "customers".

One Honda stops paying, it will be hard for teams to replace that money and they will have to go where the income exceeds the cost (just as they did when they left CART for the IRL). That may not be CC but it isn't likely to be the IRL in its current form.

So while Honda may be around to supply engines, they may not have anyone to buy them.

It can't be like Toyota, there's no one left. There isn't a better engine option. And that is my point. If Honda stops paying and teams leave for ChampCar, they're only hurting themselves. They are svaing money on R&D, I personally expect them to keep pumping the same amount of money to teams as they have in the past to keep their top guys in the series.

[Andrew Longman]

I personally expect them to keep pumping the same amount of money to teams as they have in the past to keep their top guys in the series.

Perhaps. Can't say you are wrong. But by your own admission, they are only paying to save face. What are they willing to pay AGR and RLR for that?

Ganassi and Penske never were getting money from Honda so I wonder if they are getting it now.

And even if AGR and RHR keep getting Honda bucks, is it enough to develop the cars aero to catch up to Penske and TCGR? How interested are they in continuing to get their butts kicked? How about the more lesser teams?

[Insomniac]

Perhaps. Can't say you are wrong. But by your own admission, they are only paying to save face. What are they willing to pay AGR and RLR for that?

Ganassi and Penske never were getting money from Honda so I wonder if they are getting it now.

And even if AGR and RHR keep getting Honda bucks, is it enough to develop the cars aero to catch up to Penske and TCGR? How interested are they in continuing to get their butts kicked? How about the more lesser teams?

Just maintain status quo on current payments. The real problem would arise if all the teams want money from Honda. Honda propping up AGR and RLR is to save face as you said. In the end, a car with a Honda is going to win. :) However, occuring to me just now is that AGR and RLR probably have contracts with Honda outligning sponsorship amounts and length, so it may be all moot.

Regardles, I'm looking forward to the DP01 era and it will be interesting to see what is happening in the IRL come 2007.

[nrc]

Cavin stands by the Star story.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/SPORTS0105/51010005


Question: Did you guys get it wrong? I would think you had some good sources to run the story on unification on page one. Personally, I have a very difficult time trying to understand Tony George whenever he is interviewed. He does not communicate well. (Jon from Chicago)

Answer: A lot of people have expected us to respond to what Tony George said, so here goes:

I'm not sure what to say in response. Really.

I interviewed Tony in Richmond, and Steve Ballard did the same with Kevin Kalkhoven in Cleveland. I also spoke with Brian Barnhart, the IRL's president. Virtually everything said was on the record, and we attributed information to these men throughout the story.

I spoke with Tony on Sunday morning after the story came out, and his concern was on one issue: That he and I did not specifically talk about the Indianapolis 500, as I had noted, and we adjusted that sentence on the Web.

As for the part about the two series possibly racing together some in 2007, that information came from Barnhart and Kalkhoven. Barnhart said he was saving up to four dates in the IRL's schedule and Kalkhoven made a direct quote to Ballard about sharing the St. Pete and Long Beach weekends.

I'm still not sure why Tony reacted the way he did, but I thought Kalkhoven's quotes to USA Today told a lot. He said the story was "largely accurate" but the headline was "highly optimistic." Remember, reporters do not write headlines.

In the end, we stand by our story.

[Spicoli]

Yep. I was wrong, sort of, but it wasn't really my fault, cause I don;t write the headlines and stuff, and Roger got mad at Tony, and Tony lit up my cellphone after it came out, then my boss found out about it, then Fat Dave from WIBC called me, and well, this is what we came up with.

One o them fluid dynamical thinga ma jobbies. :gomer:


See, they really are that ****ing stupid. :shakehead

[dando]

Cavin stands by the Star story.
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/99999999/SPORTS0105/51010005
Or read as Fred Nation did not approve the script. :saywhat:

Note: I'm still trying to get a withdrawal from Spickly's bank. :gomer: :p

-Kevin

[TKGAngel]

I thought Cavin's response was well-written and well-informed. If he's got everything on the record (and the participants know they are on the record), then he's in the right. TG's panicking made this a bigger story than it was.

And headlines aren't written by writers, so Cavin probably could have a beef with his editor.