Vegas

[KLang]

Looks like there might be vote today.

Link (http://www5.lasvegasnevada.gov/sirepub/pubmtgframe.aspx?meetid=75&doctype=Agenda)

Click on agenda item 48 and the supporting document PDF's show up in the window on the right.

The first document shows approval is recommended.

The second document is the contract. It also includes a map showing a 2.4 mile track. Is this different then we were shown before?

Third document shows that the guys from Phoenix are involved in this as well. Isn't that a change?

[cameraman]

http://homepage.mac.com/datkinso/.Pictures/Vegas.jpg

[cameraman]

Railroad tracks, it crosses railroad tracks :saywhat:

Edit to add it dives under the railroad tracks, twice.

[Lizzerd]

I don't see anywhere decent to sit in that track map.

[G.]

I don't see anywhere decent to sit in that track map.roof of the building near turn 4?

[Mark521]

Railroad tracks, it crosses railroad tracks :saywhat:

I crosses under them between turns 11 and 12, and over them between turns 2 and 3.

It reminds me of the old Houston set up.

[Boatdesigner]

I can't tell how wide the roads are from the photo. Is there anyplace to pass? The section through turns 4-9 looks terrible to me, slow and narrow. Doesn't Vegas have a small regional airport we could close for a day or two?!? :shakehead

[cameraman]

Your right, the road goes under the tracks at both crossings.
Actual elevation changes in a street course.

turn 2-3 crossing
http://homepage.mac.com/datkinso/.Pictures/2-3crossing.jpg

turn 11-12 crossing
http://homepage.mac.com/datkinso/.Pictures/11-12crossing.jpg

[Gangrel]

T10-T1 looks like it could be crazy fast! Road goes under the tracks at both crossings. Looks like the road is a 4-lane road through most of the course. Seems to me that would allow for passing. All looks good to me!

[Dr. Corkski]

Looks like the evil spawn of the two San Jose proposals. :thumdown:

[Andrew Longman]

T10-T1 looks like it could be crazy fast! Road goes under the tracks at both crossings. Looks like the road is a 4-lane road through most of the course. Seems to me that would allow for passing. All looks good to me!

Does not look 4 lanes under the tracks. I see dividers, probably protecting the support posts for the trackage above.

While I like the tunnels, I'm not impressed. Not a lot of passing zones. Too many 90 degree corners. Not a very attractive part of town (but I'm not much for Vegas anyway.) Not a lot of viewing opportunities

[Spicoli]

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/sex018.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

FKNA!

[RichK]

Bring back a road course.

[NismoZ]

And almost certainly a chicane somewhere near 12 to slow them on the run past the pits. Right about the "tunnels", 2 lanes & big center supports but several of the 90s are onto 4 lane undivided streets . I hope they are kept wide for obvious reasons and could be an improvement over most street 90s. Early April, '07,eh? This, combined with Dutch officials coming to talk to CC at Edmonton about a race at Assen and rumors of a second European round in Sept. and the talk about San Antonio and Phoenix tells me KK is working harder on the IMPORTANT part of his two-part strategy. :thumbup:

[extramundane]

I wish I had more hands, so I could give that track 4 thumbs down. :thumdown:

[NismoZ]

Lizzerd...in a swimming pool in front of a Jumbo Tron, of course.

[KLang]

Champ Cars in Vegas? I'll be there. :thumbup:

Passing zones... Wouldn't turns 1, 3 and 4 be good?

[cameraman]

If the scale on google maps is correct, the roads in the turn 4,5,6,7,8 complex are 60' and 70' wide, curb to curb.

[Wheel-Nut]

. . . . and the talk about San Antonio and Phoenix tells me KK is working harder on the IMPORTANT part of his two-part strategy. :thumbup:

Personally I hope san Antonio never happens, for selfish reasons of course.

[NismoZ]

Four thumbs down? I don't know. First of all it is 2.44 miles which is far more realistic than most CC street circuits. It looks to be wide in many places which is another plus. The run from 10 through 11-12-13 and 14 (!?, 14 looks like T-1 to me) should be wicked fast, thus my prediction of a chicane there. I think it's been indicated on other maps I saw long ago. The casinos, other businesses and the city seem very enthused over the prospect of perhaps $71 million coming their way and appear to be ready to help and promote. I count those as positive things and can't imagine the layout being worse than Houston I or II, San Jose or any number of other canyon races we seem to have accepted.

[Tifosi24]

I wish I had more hands, so I could give that track 4 thumbs down. :thumdown:

HAHA, Charlie Murphy!!

It looks like T4 is the only responable place for overtaking, because the slight kink in the road before T1 is likely to make passing very difficult. As was eluded to earlier, there will more than likely be a chicane somewhere along that long start/finish straight.

I haven't heard anything about Assen, but if you ran the entire TT circuit we would be in for one wickedly fast race. The only problem with Assen is that the circuit is relatively narrow looking for cars, the circuit is great for bikes but I am not sure how good it would be for open-wheel (see Laguna Seca).

[NismoZ]

Yep. Track width is the main concern there.

[Tifosi24]

I just cruised over to the MotoGP website, and Assen circuit has been changed since last year with its length being cut to only 2.8 miles instead of the old 6+ kilometers. The track description there even mentions narrow, and that is even for MotoGP. Still would be a nice addition with some other European road course.

[devilmaster]

Guess 11 is the chicane so they don't clobber the bridge supports....

I think there was talk about road improvments, hope they cut down or out completely, the median flower pots on the front straight.... it would give more room on the track and pit lane....

[Tifosi24]

The brake zone for T1 will be interesting seeing as part of it will be a tunnel. The size and placement of the medians along the frontstretch don't give me much hope of there being any widening. There is certainly room to widen them, but their placement looks to be well planned. I don't know who would be footing the bill for street improvements, but I can tell you that widening the entire stretch of the main straight will not be cheap. I have never been to Vegas, but the one thing they have working toward their advantage is the climate, any construction isn't going to have to worry about weather delays.

[Ankf00]

Personally I hope san Antonio never happens, for selfish reasons of course.
meh, take friday off and on the way to SA stop in Hallettsville (Janak's) & Shiner (Patek's, and Maecker's) for some quality Czech sausage, have lunch up in Lockhart with Oddlycalm's inlaws :D at any of the fine 'cue joints they've got, go toobin' down the Guad during friday practice, fri night in San Marcos w/ the ever so beautiful TxState women of questionable virtue and maybe hit up Gruene Hall for some dancing, sat 10am drive 40 mins out of town to Luling City Market in Luling for some more 'cue, afternoon at the track, sat night in SA w/ the best tex-mex ever. And big sis' ranch 40 mins back in Hill Country by Blanco. And somewhere in there there'll have to be time to schedule a tour of the Real Ale Brewery in Blanco :thumbup:

aside from the cost of gas, doesn't sound so bad :) actually, sounds more enticing than Houston :(

[nrc]

Guess 11 is the chicane so they don't clobber the bridge supports....

I'm sure it's so they don't clobber the bridge supports about half way up - the dip down under the overpass is fairly abrupt there.

[Ankf00]

I'm sure it's so they don't clobber the bridge supports about half way up - the dip down under the overpass is fairly abrupt there.
but our cars "can drive upside down on the roof of a tunnel"... ;)

[nrc]

As for all the thumbs down - feh! As much as I dislike the idea of such a street-race heavy schedule, on the drawing board this is the best new street course we've seen in a while.

[cameraman]

I think we will need to see the cars on the course before we really know whether it is good, bad or indifferent. All three are possible unless you live in the all street races suck camp.

[Andrew Longman]

As for all the thumbs down - feh! As much as I dislike the idea of such a street-race heavy schedule, on the drawing board this is the best new street course we've seen in a while.

I'm willing to wait to see the end product, but I think St Pete, Denver, Edmonton, Mexico City and maybe even Monterrey are better.

Miami, Houston and San Jose might be worse

[Andrew Longman]

.

[KLang]

Over at crapwagon there is a Vegas local saying the city council voted in favor of the funding. Looks like the race is on. :)

[Wabbit]

but our cars "can drive upside down on the roof of a tunnel"... ;)

The Men in Black have been able to do that for years :)

[extramundane]

As for all the thumbs down - feh! As much as I dislike the idea of such a street-race heavy schedule, on the drawing board this is the best new street course we've seen in a while.

Considering the recent street courses we've seen, that's not saying much.

[Dr. Corkski]

As for all the thumbs down - feh! As much as I dislike the idea of such a street-race heavy schedule, on the drawing board this is the best new street course we've seen in a while.That's like bragging about being champ of IPS. :p

[Gnam]

The size and placement of the medians along the frontstretch don't give me much hope of there being any widening. There is certainly room to widen them, but their placement looks to be well planned. I don't know who would be footing the bill for street improvements, but I can tell you that widening the entire stretch of the main straight will not be cheap.
Section 8 on page 11 of the Agreement says the City is responsible for the first $500,000 of street improvements. Any costs exceeding that are picked up by the promoters, VGP.

On page 28 is an estimate of the first year costs. Item 3 is "Remove Concrete Medians": 1700 square yards for $34,000. The medians are only along the front straight, so I think they plan to remove all of them.

[stroker]

I'm kinda surprised nobody has stuck a Vid cam on their dash and recorded a "lap" of the track yet...

[nrc]

Considering the recent street courses we've seen, that's not saying much.

Aside from Miami and San Jose those courses have produced just as many good races any of the road courses of late. Seabass said that the reconfigured San Jose course may have the best passing zone on the whole schedule.

[NismoZ]

Lots of pics have been up at AR1 for quite awhile. The uphill left out of the tunnel to 12 looks CLASSIC! Huge wall to the right, gotta be flat out (after a chicane?) up toward the S/F straight. I'm sure the sound and sight of cars cresting that curving rise through the gears should be memorable. Doesn't look like the curve prior to 1 will hinder any dives for position, either. All those left curves on that run look to be taken flat out. The dive under the tracks to 3 looks narrow but FAST and I think we'll see passing there too, as they rise beyond the tracks to 3. Three is WIDE, if they choose to make it such, and I hope they do. The wide/long/straight run from 3-4 HAS to be a prime passing area and the rest of those 90s, though not pictured, could be fast, too. I'm less concerned about the layout than some here seem to be but the speeds past the pits should be incredible. I hope some drivers take CCs request to become more involved (after Houston's problems) seriously and offer some helpful suggestions. This one has all the hallmarks of a great and lasting event. The vote was unanimous and the city "can't wait" to start on the requested improvements. 34k to rip out those medians and pave them over with smooth asphalt is chicken feed, and I doubt it'll create the flap Denver did when trees were removed on the pit straight. :)

[extramundane]

Aside from Miami and San Jose those courses have produced just as many good races any of the road courses of late. Seabass said that the reconfigured San Jose course may have the best passing zone on the whole schedule.

That might be easier to swallow if we had more than a couple of actual road course races for comparison.

[Tifosi24]

$34,000 dollars, I think they are getting one hell of a deal. They must be completely removing the medians, because I got the grunt job of measuring new curb put in last summer and people would not believe how expensive a lineal foot of concrete curb is these days. 1700 square feet of new asphalt shouldn't be that expensive either. If they are planning on spending at least 500k on street improvements, they are going to be able to do a lot to make the area racy.

[SurfaceUnits]

Champ Car Series to Open 2007 in Las Vegas
By Jim Peltz, Times Staff Writer
July 21, 2006

The Champ Car World Series will open its 2007 schedule on Easter in Las Vegas after city officials approved plans for a street race downtown, Champ Car announced Thursday.

The Vegas Grand Prix is scheduled April 8 on a specially constructed 2.4-mile, 14-turn course just north of the Las Vegas Strip, after approval Wednesday by the Las Vegas City Council.

The Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach, also run on local streets, has been Champ Car's opening race for the last three years. But next year it will be held April 15 as the second race on the series' schedule, Champ Car spokesman Eric Mauk said. The full year's schedule hasn't been released.

The Long Beach race is content to be second because "we have never run on Easter," said Jim Michaelian, president of the Long Beach Grand Prix Assn., which manages the race.

He added, "We have made a determined effort that we will not be competing with the Masters" golf tournament for television viewers. The final round of next year's Masters is April 8.



The Long Beach Grand Prix is owned by a group that includes Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe, who also are principals of the Champ Car World Series.

The Las Vegas event is being organized by DDB Ventures, led by partners Bradley Yonover and Dale Jensen, a co-owner of the Arizona Diamondbacks and the Phoenix Suns.

"Las Vegas hasn't seen auto racing like this since the old Caesars Palace Grand Prix in the 1980s," Yonover said in a statement, adding that the race would be part of a three-day event including a concert and boxing match.

Las Vegas Mayor Oscar Goodman said the event "has the potential to do great things" for the city and "we look forward to welcoming motor sports back to downtown Las Vegas."

Yonover and Jensen also have been trying to organize a Champ Car street race in Phoenix, but have run into opposition from Phoenix International Raceway and others.

[Spicoli]

I almost can't believe this is happening. About the best news from CCWS all year. Really sounds like we've taken the lead away from ___king Tony - new cars, new venues, new teams, etc.

While it would absolutely be awesome to have Indy back (and a part of the CCWS series), Tony had his chance, and it appears he's blown it once again. :shakehead

KK moving forward. :thumbup:

[dando]

:thumbup:

FTG! :thumbup:

It's gonna co$t him a bundle to fill the field in '07. :gomer: :cool:

-Kevin

[devilmaster]

Is this the first time any race, -anywhere- has had about a dozen hotels in the infield?

A quick search on travelocity only has 1 downtown hotel offering room prices for that weekend so far.....

El Cortez

Thurs - $43.33
Friday - $59.33
Saturday - $59.33
Sun - $43.33

For an average of $51.33

Cheapo Vegas description of the ElCo - http://cheapovegas.com/vegas_casino_full.php?hotel_id=1011

[KLang]

A quick search on travelocity only has 1 downtown hotel offering room prices for that weekend so far.....


With the hotels 'on board' for the race I expect they will be offering packages with tickets.

Anyone familiar with the downtown hotels? The few times I've been down there they didn't look too good. Anything new or recently remodeled?

[pferrf1]

Is this the first time any race, -anywhere- has had about a dozen hotels in the infield?

A quick search on travelocity only has 1 downtown hotel offering room prices for that weekend so far.....

El Cortez

Thurs - $43.33
Friday - $59.33
Saturday - $59.33
Sun - $43.33

For an average of $51.33

Cheapo Vegas description of the ElCo - http://cheapovegas.com/vegas_casino_full.php?hotel_id=1011

Surfers Paradise. The entire course is set amongst hotels and condos. The only difference is that at Surfers they shut everything down for hotel vehicle access throughout the weekend. In LV, they seem have agreed to shut the track down each day for two hours to allow people/cars in and out. That's messed up.

They should fly this bunch of hotel operators to Surfers to see how it works during a race weekend! There is so little room inside the track that they use the hotel driveways as false grids and paddock spaces at times for support races.

[devilmaster]

With the hotels 'on board' for the race I expect they will be offering packages with tickets.

Anyone familiar with the downtown hotels? The few times I've been down there they didn't look too good. Anything new or recently remodeled?

Thx to corky offering up this link.... check out the reviews on all the hotels.

http://www.cheapovegas.com

If I go, I might try and stay at the Western.... :eek: :D

[devilmaster]

In LV, they seem have agreed to shut the track down each day for two hours to allow people/cars in and out. That's messed up

The way I read the agreement, (and honestly, the way I wasted an hour that i'll never get back)

that after the activities of the day, the track will be cold and -OPEN- for vehicle traffic to casinos.

I don't have a problem if they have an intersection where cars can drive through to the infield, many tracks have done that - Belle Isle, Milwaukee, even IMS on the backstraight. But to open the track, that's a little different.

[cameraman]

It does not seem to be a problem in Monaco.

[devilmaster]

It does not seem to be a problem in Monaco.

Well then, you can pay for all my expenses next year to go see the Monaco GP, so I can compare. ;)

[pferrf1]

The way I read the agreement, (and honestly, the way I wasted an hour that i'll never get back)

that after the activities of the day, the track will be cold and -OPEN- for vehicle traffic to casinos.

I don't have a problem if they have an intersection where cars can drive through to the infield, many tracks have done that - Belle Isle, Milwaukee, even IMS on the backstraight. But to open the track, that's a little different.

The track is also cold in the middle of the day - IIRC it was 11:30am to 1:30pm. Track activites ending at 4:30 with the track opened again. I think if they see how it can work at Surfer's, they'd be OK with a hot track all day. Taking away 2 hours of support races is a bit much.

By the way - all hotel rooms within Surfers track are subject to an extra race surcharge fee during the weekend, that is paid by the hotel to the promoter. After all, if you were'nt, you'd in essense be getting a free GA ticket for paying for your hotel room. I belive it was waived if you were holding a valid ticket for the race.

[KLang]

Thx to corky offering up this link.... check out the reviews on all the hotels.

http://www.cheapovegas.com

If I go, I might try and stay at the Western.... :eek: :D

Hmmm, looks like the Golden Nugget or out on the strip. I wonder how bad parking would be.

Edit: From the original presentation to the city council:
'Casinos agree to reserve all available rooms for the four day weekend of the race. Room rentals would be packaged with Champcar ticket and hospitality sales'

[devilmaster]

Hmmm, looks like the Golden Nugget or out on the strip. I wonder how bad parking would be.

Edit: From the original presentation to the city council:
'Casinos agree to reserve all available rooms for the four day weekend of the race. Room rentals would be packaged with Champcar ticket and hospitality sales'

naturally, probably thats why then all other casinos downtown did show any available rooms on travelocity.....

And its probably a good idea to go to the individual hotel websites and sign up for email updates too.....

Do you need the class of the downtown hotel or else, klang? I mean you're going to be out walking and watching the races mostly.... why stay on the strip far away when everything will be in walking distance?

[G.]

Can someone with any skills. ie., not me, mark up the track pic with hotel names?

Boy, I never ask for much, do I? :shakehead

[devilmaster]

Can someone with any skills. ie., not me, mark up the track pic with hotel names?

Boy, I never ask for much, do I? :shakehead

Its not the best, and there maybe more hotels and such....

http://www.mnsi.net/~smicalef/vegas.jpg

[pchall]

Would it be too much to ask for a mark up of the aerial including all the massage parlors, strip clubs, and liqour stores?

:cool:

ps: post this as a favor to Warlock, if not for me. :)

[devilmaster]

ps: post this as a favor to Warlock, if not for me. :)

I call BS. Warlock already knows where they all are. :p :D

[Spicoli]

Well, hard to not make this race I suppose.

http://www.freesmileys.org/emo/cool11.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[KLang]

Do you need the class of the downtown hotel or else, klang? I mean you're going to be out walking and watching the races mostly.... why stay on the strip far away when everything will be in walking distance?

I'm thinking of the wife. She puts up with the race stuff, barely. ;) The description of the Golden Nugget sounds OK.

Nice work on marking up the map. :thumbup:

[Ankf00]

One of my best friends from school is from LV, could definitely talk him into a road race and get free lodgings in the process... Montreal, LV, LB, it's all about mooching on friends and the free room :D

[devilmaster]

Nice work on marking up the map. :thumbup:

I didn't put the western on the map. It only has 50 rooms and I wanna make sure that the 20 buck a night rooms are still avail when I order ;) :p

[G.]

Thanks, DM!

Golden Nugget for the OC crew?

[Spicoli]

Thanks, DM!

Golden Nugget for the OC crew?

just got a text from monkey that he is booked. :thumbup:

there.

[G.]

just got a text from monkey that he is booked. :thumbup:

there.Will his hat fit in the safe??

[KLang]

I just tried through their website and they aren't taking reservations yet. I did sign up for their email promotions.

[devilmaster]

whoops.

nvrmnd.

[nrc]

Any thoughts on seating? Looks like stand 2 might be the best available, but it might be a pain getting there if you're staying inside the course.

[devilmaster]

Any thoughts on seating? Looks like stand 2 might be the best available, but it might be a pain getting there if you're staying inside the course.

if you're looking at 2, might as well go and get GS 3. Its right across the street on the inside. On my map, its covered up by the golden gate name.

Now that I think about it, I wonder if a few hotels wouldn't put up some bleachers on their tower roofs... sorta like wrigley.

[nrc]

if you're looking at 2, might as well go and get GS 3. Its right across the street on the inside. On my map, its covered up by the golden gate name.

Mainly because 2 will have a view of a likely passing zone. With 3 it probably depends on where your seats are.

Zooming around in Google Earth, it's hard to see many other good vantage points. A lot of the parking garages look too tall to get a good view of the course. The crossover from Binions might be a good spot.

[Lizzerd]

Is the turn 5 runoff the lobby of the Golden Nugget?

[devilmaster]

announcement on CC's website....

guess a concert and championship boxing match are included in the weekend....

http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=10574

[KLang]

Any thoughts on seating? Looks like stand 2 might be the best available, but it might be a pain getting there if you're staying inside the course.

Given this:
'Casinos agree to reserve all available rooms for the four day weekend of the race. Room rentals would be packaged with Champcar ticket and hospitality sales'

I suspect seating availability may be determined by which Motel you are staying at.