Ron Dennis on NASCAR

[oddlycalm]

My guess is that this will get quite a reaction in some quarters.


NASCAR is a tremendous show, it has a tremendous following in America, it is certainly very commercially viable to all the participants, drivers, teams and promoters, but for me it's simply not motor racing, because of course so much manipulation goes on to affect the outcome of each and every race.

This is not hidden from the teams or the drivers, and will be a great source of infuriation to any competitive driver who participates in it, and I don't think Juan Pablo is going to be the exception.

[Opposite Lock]

... and we know there's no "manipulation" in F1. :rolleyes:

[spinner26]

Coming from Ron Dennis, this hurts....................................NOT! :rolleyes: :laugh:

[chop456]

What exactly is he wrong about?

[Don Quixote]

What exactly is he wrong about?
He is spot on.

[TrueBrit]

What exactly is he wrong about?

Not a darned thing....

[Willam]

Who would've thought Ron Dennis' comments would bethe most entertaining thing so far in this whole thing?

Never been a McLaren fan, but I'm becoming a Ron Dennis fan with each Montoya/NASCAR statement. :thumbup:

[racer2c]

I think this is just further proof of what a sad, miserable state of affairs US motor-racing has become. That NASCAR is even mentioned in the same breath as F1 is an abomination.

Every race weekend I thank the racing gods that there is an F1.

[oddlycalm]

Who would've thought Ron Dennis' comments would bethe most entertaining thing so far in this whole thing? Here's another one I got a laugh out of...

As so often with his racing career, I think it was an ill-considered, spontaneous decision. A polite way of saying $ million reflexes packaged with a $2 brain.

oc

[Cam]

I think this is just further proof of what a sad, miserable state of affairs US motor-racing has become. That NASCAR is even mentioned in the same breath as F1 is an abomination.

Every race weekend I thank the racing gods that there is an F1.

I will second that... Ron I believe is seeing a high paid "employee" taking the easy way out and crapping all over what has put food in his mouth for the past 5 years.

[theunions]

I think this is just further proof of what a sad, miserable state of affairs US motor-racing has become. That NASCAR is even mentioned in the same breath as F1 is an abomination.

You're way too kind.

All this sudden interest from the F1 crowd, along with the name-dropping of Danica, Dario and even Mika Hakkinen, continue to fuel NASCAR's delusions that they own the world (and given them more of a "right" to behave accordingly).

[Cam]

You're way too kind.

All this sudden interest from the F1 crowd, along with the name-dropping of Danica, Dario and even Mika Hakkinen, continue to fuel NASCAR's delusions that they own the world (and given them more of a "right" to behave accordingly).

OK. So what does it take to take them down a few notches?

I view monopolies with a rather big scowl. I see the France juggernaut as one. Along with....

(Don't get me started!) :flame:

[Boatdesigner]

F1 isn't a monopoly? :saywhat: That must be why they limit it to just, what . . . 11 teams? They also try to control ALL racing worldwide through the FIA. Why didn't they let CART race on road courses in Europe for all of those years? Sorry, I can't stand Nascar and I watch every F1 race, but F1 has gotten pretty boring the last few years. There were maybe 5-6 passes the entire FGP, and I don't remember any for the lead on the track. I'll still watch, but the Edmonton Champ race will probably have more excitement on the track than F1's whole season of racing. There will be more passes in the next Nascar race, wherever that is, than probably the whole season of F1.

[chop456]

There will be more passes in the next Nascar race, wherever that is, than probably the whole season of F1.

Name a pass in the last 50 years of nascar that comes close to the last lap of the Japanese GP last year.

Thought so.

[JT265]

Name a pass in the last 50 years of nascar that comes close to the last lap of the Japanese GP last year.

Thought so.


Chopper, may I suggest more roughage. Your pal, JT. :D
















Seriously, I agree with you.

[Elmo T]

I don't recall any "good" passes in NASCAR. The so called memorable passes are always because of the timing, not the pass itself.

[Boatdesigner]

I didn't say the passes would be memorable, because they won't be! But, at least the positions change between the first lap and the last on something other than pit strategy. How many F1 races have we watched where the cars were in nearly the same positions on lap 60-70 as they were on lap 1? F1 reminds me a little of fishing for marlin, hours of boredom in anticipation of a few moments of excitement. I still watch it though, including qualifying. What that says about me I don't know! :D

[Andrew Longman]

I watch every single F1 race but if you can get past the fact that NASCAR is running 3400# tanks with overmatched brakes and tires, their road races, especially at the Glen, are usually very entertaining. Passing happening all over the track and a clear demonstration of driver talent.

[spinner26]

This is the part I have a problem with........

because of course so much manipulation goes on to affect the outcome of each and every race.


He says it matter of factly as though it doesn't happen in F-1. :shakehead

[Andrew Longman]

Just so we're all in the same page, the manipulation in NASCAR includes:

-- The occasional timely debris yellow
-- The rules changes from week to week to ensure parity among the three nameplates (seems a less of that lately)
-- Green/White/Checkers
-- Endless spec parts and mandated gear ratios
-- Sometime murky interpretation of the technical rules and post race inspections
-- Mysterious application of fines and penalties
-- Lucky dog
-- What else?

What I don't think happens, and Dennis implies it, is that someone says, "Ford must win today", or ,"No way Marlin will be allowed to win this race".

I do think they say "We like this result, Let's let it stand". And I do suspect certain team are given a little more latitiude when it serves NASCAR.

[racer2c]

Just so we're all in the same page, the manipulation in NASCAR includes:

-- The occasional timely debris yellow
-- The rules changes from week to week to ensure parity among the three nameplates (seems a less of that lately)
-- Green/White/Checkers
-- Endless spec parts and mandated gear ratios
-- Sometime murky interpretation of the technical rules and post race inspections
-- Mysterious application of fines and penalties
-- Lucky dog
-- What else?

What I don't think happens, and Dennis implies it, is that someone says, "Ford must win today", or ,"No way Marlin will be allowed to win this race".

I do think they say "We like this result, Let's let it stand". And I do suspect certain team are given a little more latitiude when it serves NASCAR.


I think Ron's "manipulation" comment is more aimed at "Ford cries, Ford get's more spoiler, Ford wins next four races until Chevy cries".

Add tube frame, solid axle, 25 year old technology, momentum racing DINOSAUR to your list.

As for their road courses, the tracks are so bastardized with their hand full of corners each redesigned with big sweeping radius for the tanks. They are hardly comparable to world class circuits.

What I find so ironically funny about NASCAR is that all of this "manipulation" is in the name of "entertainment". It's all about the "show". Well, IMO it's still the most boring thing on TV right next to pro-golf and C-SPAN.

[Boatdesigner]

racer2c: I guess you won't be tuning into the America's Cup next spring! I think CSPAN is even more exciting than sailboat racing, and I love boats! Now, if we could get them to make pit stops and change keels mid-race . . .

[cameraman]

Don't be defiling the America's Cup with a comparison to NASCAB :flame:

[Andrew Longman]

I think Ron's "manipulation" comment is more aimed at "Ford cries, Ford get's more spoiler, Ford wins next four races until Chevy cries".

Add tube frame, solid axle, 25 year old technology, momentum racing DINOSAUR to your list.

As for their road courses, the tracks are so bastardized with their hand full of corners each redesigned with big sweeping radius for the tanks. They are hardly comparable to world class circuits.

What I find so ironically funny about NASCAR is that all of this "manipulation" is in the name of "entertainment". It's all about the "show". Well, IMO it's still the most boring thing on TV right next to pro-golf and C-SPAN.

All true. Especially on ovals. But I can't say if it is more boring than cSPAN or golf since I don't watch them. :)

However, NASCAR is helped by putting 43 cars out. On a road course, the bastardization of Sonoma, it makes it pretty busy. Its one thing in their column

[oddlycalm]

25 year old technology To be brutally accurate 40yr old technology is more like it. By 1981 most race cars were long past steel tube frames, solid axles and carburetors. That was the stuff of the mid-1960s.

I figure that Ron Dennis was referring to the competition yellows and lucky dog unlapping nonsense, and he's right. Assuming Montoya was able to pull out a substantial lead in a Busch or Cup race what do we think the odds are of debris yellow being thrown? The first time it happened I'd guess the odds at 80% or better, but if it happened more than once in a season I'd guess more like 100%. We've all seen enough of Montoya to know how he'll react. He's very unlikely to be happy being subject to NASCAR's whims long term, regardless of how well it pays.

oc

[eiregosod]

imagine the shock & shame that Dennis, Bernie must;ve felt when Monty announced his move to 'cabs.