Chevy dealer in Houston likes to take back people's cars...

[Ankf00]

F GM

http://www.newschannel5.com/content/investigates/20762.asp?q=BILL+HEARD


He told Kieselhorst that if he wanted to keep his truck, he needed to fork over another $10,000 -- something he refused to do. After all, he says, they had a signed deal....

But the next morning, when Kieselhorst woke up, his truck was gone.....

The dealership had come and taken it in the middle of the night....

http://www.newschannel5.com/content/investigates/20957.asp?q=newschannel+5+investigates


“There was no way to get out. They surrounded my car with seven people and stood in my doorframe. Couldn't start the car. Couldn't shut the door in 97-degree weather,” Wilson recalls.

She refused to hand over the keys. That's when, she says, the salesmen surrounded her car while another used a truck to block her in all while her 1-year-old son sat strapped in his car seat.

Despite the high number of complaints, there weren't many lawsuits filed.

That's because Bill Heard tells customers they have to sign an arbitration agreement where they agree not to sue and agree to have their case heard by a company mediator.

[racer2c]

Serves them right for buyin' Chebbies. I thought all Chebby dealers were like that. Seriously.

[Car-B-Q]

I'm sure that if the dealer had made a $10K in their favor, that they would be just as willing to correct that "mistake" as well. :rolleyes:

[oddlycalm]

Not policing their dealer networks is yet another way the US automakers are beating themselves. For decades they have been letting every goofball under the sun operate dealerships with their brand names on the sign. Their competition runs a tighter ship and it pays off.

oc

[Ankf00]

you're right, but Bill Heard's Landmark Chevy in No.Hou. is one of the top 5 Chevy dealers in the US volume-wise. When you're dumping 400 trucks a month do a couple of these incidents a month really influence management?

the car market is the biggest pile of BS in this country. the only thing you're not legally allowed to sell online. ****ing con artists, the lot of them...

[RaceGrrl]

I'm sure that if the dealer had made a $10K in their favor, that they would be just as willing to correct that "mistake" as well. :rolleyes:

Yeah, but it is the responsibility of the dealership to check their contract to make sure that their figures are right before they sign off on it. We have contracts to bind the buyer and seller. Bottom line, it's up to the seller to put the right price on the contract.

I have a retail side business. If I misquote a price and someone buys the item for that price, I wouldn't think of going back afterward and asking them to pay the true amount. It's bad business and it's unethical. Sounds to me like someone was just trying to cover their ass.

[racer2c]

Yeah, but it is the responsibility of the dealership to check their contract to make sure that their figures are right before they sign off on it. We have contracts to bind the buyer and seller. Bottom line, it's up to the seller to put the right price on the contract.

I have a retail side business. If I misquote a price and someone buys the item for that price, I wouldn't think of going back afterward and asking them to pay the true amount. It's bad business and it's unethical. Sounds to me like someone was just trying to cover their ass.

Bravo! :thumbup:

[Winston Wolfe]

Not policing their dealer networks is yet another way the US automakers are beating themselves. For decades they have been letting every goofball under the sun operate dealerships with their brand names on the sign. Their competition runs a tighter ship and it pays off.

oc

Under the current franchise system of dealership operations and manufacturers, it is "not legal" in many states for the franchise to own and operate a dealership. In many cases, when Manuf.s have tried, they have failed (see Ford's attempt in Detroit several years ago), since many factory guys have no idea of how retail operations *really* work.... theory is great, but practice is a different animal (as in many business applications)...
Franchise successes come and go VW was hot 3-4 yrs ago, now its a dog... manufacturers get the best guy they can when they can, but when the franchise value soars, and subsequently gets sold by the current owner\operator to the guy who pays the most "blue sky", the new guy may not be as good as the last.
Also, it is very unfair to paint all dealership operators and employees with the same brush. Just like real estate agents.... sure there are some slimy ones out there, but for the most part, many dealer principals are well respected businessmen who donate time and money to the community. However, the ones that you hear about in the press are the bad ones.... and usually only the bad ones where some "innocent consumer" was forced to buy a car that he didnt want.... " I was there for 6 hours and I just signed to get out of there"... kind of stories.
In terms of the contract and re-negotiating.... many times it has to do with the fact that the customer bought too much car, and days later when the Finance Dept at the dealership cant *hang the paper*\ get it bought at a bank because the customer has too many credit dings, doesnt make enough money, doesnt actually HAVE THE JOB they say they do..... the dealership knows the customer cant possibly pay for the car.... that is when they get the customer back in to the store, and re-write the deal at a higher interest rate, or with more monthly payments, or ask for more money down to make the deal work. Who's responsible for that ? subjective, right?
Many times a customer comes in looking for a Corvette on a Cobalt budget, and gets pizzed when they learn they dont qualify for the $5,000 rebate \ 0% APR for 96 month deal they saw on TV.... they should be equally pizzed that they have a job that only pays them $36k per year, and they have low credit ratings.
I am going to guess that this customer would find himself in a similar situation with respect to credit worthiness and common sense....
And trust me.... manufacturers DO police their dealerships with a collection of National, Regional, Zone and District personnel... and negative trends in customer satisfaction are measured, reviewed and consulted with the owner and operator... however, since the manufacturer doesnt OWN the particular franchise, it really comes down to a "Is this how you want to run your business and earn future customers?" kind of a discussion.
I would apply the old 80-20 rule to this one.... Maybe even the 90-10 rule... since the majority of customers are just as bad as the dealerships they complain about.... No one wants to buy at MSRP, everyone wants to get an invoice deal, everyone wants 0% financing, with a 10 year \ Unlimited mile warranty on a car that never breaks down, and get 52 MPG while going 0-60 in under 7 seconds.... in a car that looks good, has 7 airbags, and will last for 15 years so their kid can drive it to college...
Dealerships, as a whole, are not the cause of the problem... the whole new car purchase system as a whole has its faults, just like Big Box Retail, Wholesale Warehouse, and chain retail electronic stores....

[racer2c]

I would apply the old 80-20 rule to this one.... Maybe even the 90-10 rule... since the majority of customers are just as bad as the dealerships they complain about.... No one wants to buy at MSRP, everyone wants to get an invoice deal, everyone wants 0% financing, with a 10 year \ Unlimited mile warranty on a car that never breaks down, and get 52 MPG while going 0-60 in under 7 seconds.... in a car that looks good, has 7 airbags, and will last for 15 years so their kid can drive it to college...

I don't understand how the customer is the bad guy for participating in the business model that all but one dealerships, Saturn, use i.e. negotiable pricing. The dealer knows what they need to get for any car on the lot and won't sell the car just because some walk in argues that he wants free floor mats and undercoating and $7K off the sticker and a better interest rate then his credit score deserves.

People are demanding in their wants because of the integration of their car within their daily lives. When I was commuting I was in my car longer then I was with my family (not counting sleeping) on a daily basis. So I want the best car for the best deal I can. With the options available, it’s not hard to find it. So, as a good patriotic American, should I buy a Ford or Chevy for MSRP at an outrageous interest rate so that they can compete with the foreign invaders? Even as a Toyota hater I say emphatically, hell no!

With competition being as fierce as it is, if Joe can't get his deal with Chevy, he'll drive next door and buy a Toyota and most Joe's and Jane's are today. Ford and Chevy have only themselves to blame.

I agree with your sentiments about generalizing all dealers, I’ve dealt with really hellish foreign car dealers and have had some really excellent experiences with domestic car dealers. I educate myself prior to hitting the lots, knowing what I should be paying, knowing the vehicle types I’m looking for and I drive the negations and quickly walk if they won’t play ball without a seconds hesitation and not for dramatic purposes hoping they will chase me down and offer the deal, but rather simply to drive next door and work up an offer on car #2. I apply my horse buying experience to my car purchases; buy with your head, not your heart. It’s my right as a customer to try to obtain the best deal I can, and it’s the right of the dealer not to sell it. Easy.

[Ankf00]

it's not like the dealers can't run a credit check right on the spot. they did for me. knew my CC balances, my savings, everything. they made me show my offer letter since I hadn't received any paychecks yet as well.

[Wabbit]

I don't understand how the customer is the bad guy for participating in the business model that all but one dealerships, Saturn, use i.e. negotiable pricing. The dealer knows what they need to get for any car on the lot and won't sell the car just because some walk in argues that he wants free floor mats and undercoating and $7K off the sticker and a better interest rate then his credit score deserves.

People are demanding in their wants because of the integration of their car within their daily lives. When I was commuting I was in my car longer then I was with my family (not counting sleeping) on a daily basis. So I want the best car for the best deal I can. With the options available, it’s not hard to find it. So, as a good patriotic American, should I buy a Ford or Chevy for MSRP at an outrageous interest rate so that they can compete with the foreign invaders? Even as a Toyota hater I say emphatically, hell no!

With competition being as fierce as it is, if Joe can't get his deal with Chevy, he'll drive next door and buy a Toyota and most Joe's and Jane's are today. Ford and Chevy have only themselves to blame.

I agree with your sentiments about generalizing all dealers, I’ve dealt with really hellish foreign car dealers and have had some really excellent experiences with domestic car dealers. I educate myself prior to hitting the lots, knowing what I should be paying, knowing the vehicle types I’m looking for and I drive the negations and quickly walk if they won’t play ball without a seconds hesitation and not for dramatic purposes hoping they will chase me down and offer the deal, but rather simply to drive next door and work up an offer on car #2. I apply my horse buying experience to my car purchases; buy with your head, not your heart. It’s my right as a customer to try to obtain the best deal I can, and it’s the right of the dealer not to sell it. Easy.


This is why it takes me 6+months to buy a car.

[Winston Wolfe]

it's not like the dealers can't run a credit check right on the spot. they did for me. knew my CC balances, my savings, everything. they made me show my offer letter since I hadn't received any paychecks yet as well.

Ank - you are right. 99% of the time, they can run your credit, but in a "big house" large colume store, where maybe the customer was one of several people waiting to go into F&I, there are mistakes that happen.
This is all conjecture from here, but this sounds plausible.
Customer lands on car. Demo drives, likes it, goes inside and works up some numbers. He wants more than he can afford, but dealer works out payments he can handle, and they "steal his trade" to make up for the lack of profit on the new car (Or they over-allow on his trade, and whack him with a higher interest rate on the new car). Either way, after "the deal" is done, he sits and waits for Finance. During really busy times, F&I Dept will make short cuts and make assumptions based on what the customer says.
Bottom line is this: When the smoke clears and dust settles, the customer has left, and they F&I Mgr has to clear up the deal, and get it funded. Might have found some mistakes about income, higher than expected payoff on the trade, or couldnt get the deal bought at "BankA" because of credit score, income to debt ratio, high risk, whatever.
Dealer then calls customer, who is faced with having to go in and resign paperwork at either a higher monthly payment, or with more $$$ down, or extended terms. This happens frequently based on both customer and dealer mistakes \ faults \ lies..... I have always told anyone I have dealt with NEVER to resign any paperwork after you leave the store. If they cant get the deal bought at the terms you signed, you are going to lose on a re-write, because it means the customer will pay more, longer, or a higher monthly.
This scenario appears to be the case with this Chevy dealer and this customer.
I would hesistate to make any generalizations about this dealership, the Chevy Brand, or Chevy Dealers as a whole, based on this one scenario. We have had many dealerships in SoCal get busted by the local DA for a variety of infractions including identity theft, falsifying credit, and adding extended warranties to customers contracts without the customer knowing. When you are signing 23 times on 14 different pages, with all of the required Federal and State Legal mumbo jumbo after spending the last 3-6 hours looking, smelling, touching, feeling, and driving the car, then dealing with the salesman and the F&I Dept, you dont know what you have signed.
You just want to enjoy that new car smell and show it off to the neighbors.

The Saturn model of fixed pricing doesnt work much better. The average american wants to get a deal, and cant stand to pay MSRP for anything, which is what we have been told for years with rebates, incentives, and monthly payments. Dont forget folks, the Saturn product has been pretty lackluster for the past few years, and Saturn dealerships are not a hot commodity, especially against the imports they were designed to compete against (Toy, Honda, Nissan).... Also, Saturn dealerships still have to earn additional profits in the F&I department and they still have to evaluate and get your trade in, if you have one.... they also sell warranties and Mop&Glo, paint sealant, fabric protectant and all that great stuff. Sure you wont have to hassle on the sticker price, but you'll be disarmed when you face the F&I Department and try to get your finance deal done.
Check out the JD Power rankings by brand, and see how well Saturn, their business model and customer think of them.
The Automobile business has changed with the inner'net, but information is power, and the dealerships are still in control of the process which most people go through once every 48-60 months and they go through 100-900 times a month, depending on the size of the store....

[Wabbit]

The Saturn model of fixed pricing doesnt work much better. The average american wants to get a deal, and cant stand to pay MSRP for anything, which is what we have been told for years with rebates, incentives, and monthly payments. Dont forget folks, the Saturn product has been pretty lackluster for the past few years, and Saturn dealerships are not a hot commodity, especially against the imports they were designed to compete against (Toy, Honda, Nissan).... Also, Saturn dealerships still have to earn additional profits in the F&I department and they still have to evaluate and get your trade in, if you have one.... they also sell warranties and Mop&Glo, paint sealant, fabric protectant and all that great stuff. Sure you wont have to hassle on the sticker price, but you'll be disarmed when you face the F&I Department and try to get your finance deal done.
Check out the JD Power rankings by brand, and see how well Saturn, their business model and customer think of them.


I have no complaints about Saturns. I have owned 4, and if they had a model that fit my needs, I would buy another. But, I have also dealt with one of the best dealerships in the nation. They were consistantly in the top 3.

When looking for a car, the most important thing to me is the service behind it. You only see the salesman once every few years, but you see the serviceman every 3000 miles.

[Winston Wolfe]

I have no complaints about Saturns. I have owned 4, and if they had a model that fit my needs, I would buy another. But, I have also dealt with one of the best dealerships in the nation. They were consistantly in the top 3.

When looking for a car, the most important thing to me is the service behind it. You only see the salesman once every few years, but you see the serviceman every 3000 miles.

Rabbit gets it... :thumbup:
Too many people dont, when it comes to a car purchase.
Many dealerships deal honestly.
Those who dont, sometimes prey on the uninformed, uneducated consumer and they perpetuate the stereotype of the nasty car dealer mentality.
Fact of the matter is this : These customer still sign on the bottom line. No one forces them. No one is forced to sign 23 times. No one.

Think about it. On average, a salesman sells 10-15 New Cars per month, in order to barely make a living. That means he sees about 100 customers a month, and gets about 40 of them to sit down and write up a deal. 10-15 of them actually complete the transaction. (those are loose percentages)
Customers do it once every 48-60 months, and when there are a multitude of finance options, rebates and incentives which confuse matters even more.
Even if you buy at invoice, you still didnt get a good deal. Cuz 9xs out of 10, you dont really know what invoice is.