"BMW 3 series experience"

[Ankf00]

Anyone heard of this? Friend from school has a 3 so I guess he found out about it from some company mailing, I can't find anything about it on google. He had me sign up for it. The 2 of us, a 335i, and an instructor for 2 hours...

I was looking at the mazda experience thing a couple months back, a bunch of us had a blast doing that a year or two ago, but apparently it's a pay service now. Boo hiss.


1866-900-4BMW <---call them and sign up.

[dando]

Anyone heard of this? Friend from school has a 3 so I guess he found out about it from some company mailing, I can't find anything about it on google. He had me sign up for it. The 2 of us, a 335i, and an instructor for 2 hours...

I was looking at the mazda experience thing a couple months back, a bunch of us had a blast doing that a year or two ago, but apparently it's a pay service now. Boo hiss.


1866-900-4BMW <---call them and sign up.
Prolly cuz Flash doesn't Google well. I assume that it's related to this shizzle:

http://www.bmwusa.com/bmwexperience/eventsandprograms/ude/default

-Kevin

[RacinM3]

Hmm, let us know how it goes. The 335i is supposed to be a pretty nice car...twin turbos and all.....

[KLang]

Hmm, let us know how it goes. The 335i is supposed to be a pretty nice car...twin turbos and all.....

OT a little:
Will this be the first time for a Turbo BMW? I'll be in the market for a new vehicle this fall and I do plan to check out the new 3 coupe but the turbo thing would worry me a little if it is a new technology for them.

[dando]

Will this be the first time for a Turbo BMW?
I believe so.

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

From C/D


The 335i (the C goes away on this coupe as it did on the 650i for the 2006 model year) will have a 3.0-liter twin-turbo inline-six with piezoelectric direct injection. It’s the first gasoline turbocharged BMW in decades. BMW claims the 335i coupe will accelerate from 0 to 60 in 5.3 seconds — scarcely more than the outgoing E46 M3. Our acceleration times in BMWs typically are even faster than the company’s claimed times, so an instrumented test time of five seconds flat isn’t out of the question. The 335i will be limited to 150 mph when equipped with an optional sport package.

Models and Pricing
The 335i is expected to carry a base price of at least $42,000.


me likey turbos. :) :thumbup: wonder how mad they'll get if I Montoya the ride?

[KLang]

From C/D
me likey turbos. ?

I don't have a problem with turbos, I just don't think I want to be one of the first to shake the bugs out of their new technology.

[Ankf00]

I can't imagine it'd be much worse than any other 1st model year vehicle. Not like the engineering challenges of turbos aren't known well enough amongst the industry.

I personally think there could be more potential bugs with that fancy direct injection

[Dirty Sanchez]

I would wait for second model year. ask any first gen. E46 M3 owner.

I like the powertrain for that car (modder's dream) but the 3-series is still a skip.

[dando]

Ank, I'd go in this direction instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7U6UPLrNdQ

:D

Or maybe one of these:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdkEV-t9jg0

:eek:

-Kevin

[RacinM3]

OT a little:
Will this be the first time for a Turbo BMW? I'll be in the market for a new vehicle this fall and I do plan to check out the new 3 coupe but the turbo thing would worry me a little if it is a new technology for them.

Nope:

2002 Turbo
http://www.caradisiac.com/media/images/le_mag/mag264/BMW-2002-turbo-1-1.jpg

745i Turbo
http://scottiesharpe.com/bmw/745/Image02small.jpg

Brabham BT50 BMW Turbo :D
http://nunocorreia.no.sapo.pt/Formula1_Indy/20017/Imagens/BT_50.jpg

[RacinM3]

I would wait for second model year. ask any first gen. E46 M3 owner.

I assume you're referring to the bottom-end issues of the E46 M3 motors in that first year of production? I hear this a lot, but to call it a symptom of classic first year problems is a little misleading. I mean, if BMW hasn't yet perfected the inline-6......

Besides, those issues were handled under recall and all recall-repaired motors were given 100k warranties, if I remember. I don't think the resale on 2001 E46 M3's has suffered at all, as long as the owner provides evidence that the recall repair was done.

BMW has rolled out a lot of new models without issues like that, and stood behind that issue AND the nikasil issue that afflicted their early V8's.

[KLang]

Nope:

2002 Turbo

745i Turbo


Thanks, that is more encouraging. Have to check one out when they arrive in September.

[Dirty Sanchez]

stood behind that issueI know of several owners that would disagree. the early ones... sure. as the numbers started to mount I think they stood less and less behind these issues. not saying these issues are limited to BMW either... just giving one recent example from the same company. I recommend against buying any first generation model... especially as you climb higher up the food chain. I have a first year Audi S4 that is becoming quite a headache.

[RacinM3]

Stood less and less behind the issues? How so? It was a factory-published and well-known recall.

Not doubting you, I'm interested by your comments.

[Dirty Sanchez]

I'd have to dig up specific comments as it's been awhile since I've read the horror stories... but I believe the engine problems are very well-documented. originally, BMW denied the problems even existed and made many people pay for new engines that should have been warranty claims. then finally and only after the numbers mounted did they eventually change their oil recommendations and upped their warranty to 100k. so "less and less" is inaccurate wording and not exactly what I meant...

they definitely gave lots of folks the runaround. and that's a crappy thing to do to your enthusiast base who have taken the leap of faith and over-payed ( :D j/k) for a first model-year car.

[Dirty Sanchez]

lots of happy BMW owners (http://members.roadfly.com/jason/m3engines.htm)

[oddlycalm]

originally, BMW denied the problems even existed and made many people pay for new engines that should have been warranty claims. then finally and only after the numbers mounted did they eventually change their oil recommendations and upped their warranty to 100k. Essentially accurate summary. They also screwed around with different rod bearing inserts with different running clearances between the model intro in 2001 and into late 2002 with something like five difference bearing inserts being in the field.

The "contamination" issue referred to in the letters from BMW is a bit of an awkward translation I think. The lubrication systems weren't contaminated, the oil pump castings were contaminated which made them out of spec. This starved the lube to certain journals with the rod bearing suffering the most, hence the failures.

While BMW eventually did replace quite a few of the engines, and did the insert replacement recall on others, they caused some major problems for the early failure customers. They blamed the owners and cited abuse and overspeeding the engine by improper downshifting (money shift) and cited recorded information in the electronic module to back up those accusations. That worked on the full manual 6spd but when the SMG came out and the failures continued they had poop on their faces as the SMG won't allow an improper downshift and the ECU has a rev limiter.

Depending on the dealer and how hard they went to bat for the customers BMW's actions ranged from charging the customer $17,000 for the engine or going halves with them. This went on for better than six months and the correspondence from BMW was totally insulting. Some owners got attorneys and BMW quietly bought back their cars.

In my mind this was a major insult to customers that had waited a long time and paid considerable money for their cars. They since most were younger than most BMW customers they enjoyed some age discrimination into the mix and several enjoyed some racial discrimination at the hands of specific dealers in California and Texas.

Not BMW's finest hour. In the end everyone was made whole on paper, but none customers with the early E46 M3 failures will every be made whole with regards to the aggravation.

oc

PS - I was meeting with the executive over service for Benz in Japan and he told me very emphatically after many beers to never buy a first year model. Their warranty costs on first year models are nearly triple the subsequent years production

[RacinM3]

Interesting info, guys, thanks.

I'm racing someone's E46 M3 at Thunderhill in two weeks.....I hope it's had the rod bearings done! :laugh:

At least BMW's finally admitted the problem. Try getting Porsche to admit there's an issue with the rear main seal (RMS) on Boxster and 996 motors! Do a search on that, what you see will make you go :thumdown: .

[FCYTravis]

Uh, I guess I should let my mom know then... she's got a 2007 M Coupe on order... hope it doesn't have a bunch of first-model-year blues. :saywhat:

[RacinM3]

Travis, from what I read the new M Coupe will still use the S54 inline 6 powerplant.....now, at least, a proven motor, regardless of its history.

[oddlycalm]

I'm racing someone's E46 M3 at Thunderhill in two weeks.....I hope it's had the rod bearings done! :laugh:

At least BMW's finally admitted the problem. Try getting Porsche to admit there's an issue with the rear main seal (RMS) on Boxster and 996 motors! Do a search on that, what you see will make you go :thumdown: . Good luck with the drive. The car does drive well and I imagine it will be even better after some lightening up for the track.

Agreed on the Porsche issues as well as pretty much every other builder out there. They all have their moments, most of which are well documented in the age of the internet. :D

oc

[Ankf00]

Texas Motor Speedway is pretty decent looking, albeit in bfe, but most things that are in Ft Worth but not downtown are in bfe.

Anywho, they let us rag out g35 coupes on 19" wheels and then immediately jump in the 335i's on 18"ers to compare. The turbos are pretty small and power 3 cyls each, so there was minimal lag. It was 100000x nicer than the G35. Immediate accel, torque available down low, better braking, less pitch & roll, muuuuch smoother transitions through the chicanes. Plus paddle shifters :D My instructor was big into F1 & motoGP, so that was cool :thumbup:

Then we went to another track & raced 330i's in timed runs.

Then we went back to the 335i's and the instructors took us for hotlaps, that was ****ing cool.

Then there was some "Susan G Koemann" thingy where they just let you hop in any of the bimmers they had in the lot, they had z4 coupe, 6 series convertible, 6 coupe, 5, 7, x5, etc., and just take that around anywhere on the property, and since the place was pretty much abandoned we were zipping around the service road that encircles the joint at a decent clip.

[Sean O'Gorman]

What were you running on? Oval, road course, autocross lot?

[Ankf00]

road course for the 335, homoX lot for the 330, any of the roads on the track property for the Koeman thing

[Sean O'Gorman]

Ank? Autocrossing? I've seen it all. :laugh:

[KLang]

road course for the 335, homoX lot for the 330, any of the roads on the track property for the Koeman thing

Did the drives convince you to buy any of them?

[Ankf00]

I'm not a big bimmer fan to begin with, fantastic drivers cars, I-6 is a balanced engine, etc etc, but not a fan of the surgical operating room sterile interiors, or the Bangle exteriors. You could conduct an appendectomy on that rear seat. You could probably get a slightly used M3 for the same price though. But M3's don't have small, quickly-spooling turbos :)

One thing I loved was the side supports on the seats are electronically adjustable.. Rear seat's adult-size comfortable & ingress/egress very very easy. It's a smooth ride, power immediately available. You BMW guys will love it I'm sure. It has the elongated coupe look that's on that circa 2000 Acura CL & the CLK.


I always preferred the S40 T5 over a 330 b/c of styling & interior & turbo. But if I'm dropping 40-45 on a car (ours w/ luxury & sport packages was 46K), yea it would be something I would seriously consider. Audi doesn't make something w/ comparable power at that price. It's a nice ride. FYI: AWD will be available on the 335 too.

prefer clk to 6 series, the TT cabriolet to the z4, but they weren't bad rides

[nrc]

Did the drives convince you to buy any of them?
Nah, he's going to lease! ;)

[oddlycalm]

Sounds like a fun day, particularly considering the price of admission.

BTW Ank, as someone that is an Audi and BMW owner, trust me when I say that while you might like aspects of the Audi styling better the ownership experience between the two is night and day in favor of BMW, as is the cost of ownership.

oc

[Ankf00]

Nah, he's going to lease! ;)
leased 3 series is a pre-req on the Dallas citizenship exam :D

[Audi_A4]

I can't imagine it'd be much worse than any other 1st model year vehicle.


I have a 2006 325I Sport, had it over a year its the all new E-90 platform and very few problems .. just a seat that wrinkled and thats it. I love my 325i it is fast and handles amazing. I bet the 335 with the turbo will be a monster.

[manic mechanic]

Anywho, they let us rag out g35 coupes on 19" wheels.

So, tell us what you thought of the G35 coupe, F00!

And after your time in the 335i, how would a G after the Stillen treatment (roots blower, suspension kit, etc.) compare? I know you are well schooled in extrapolating data, so speculation on the topic shouldn't be a stretch... :p

manic

[Dirty Sanchez]

fwiw, reading about lots of problems with 335s


First, the good:

The car displays virtually no turbo lag. The acceleration feels on par with my wife's S4, it's extremely balanced on the track (I could not induce oversteer pushing them to about 8/10ths) and the stock brakes showed no fade whatsoever after a pretty hard 30 minute session. I must say, I was quite impressed. I was hitting 115 on the front straight of the north track. On top of all this, they have run flats on the car! Yes, run flats. With race rubber this car would rock! Very nice car. The backseat room is quite a bit larger than the previous model and of course the interior amenities are excellent.

Now, the bad news:

Each and every car overheated and shut down. Hmmmm, how's that? Yup! The oil temperature on every car shot to 300 degrees and the cars shut down. We learned that early on and instructed every driver to watch it closely. Driving amounted to about 5 hot laps, 2 parade laps, and so on. Never saw anything like it yet. Talk about a fatal flaw on these vehicles. Can't wait to see this happen to the general public and see how BMW responds. I guarantee you we were not pushing these so hard that no one will ever experience what we did. In fact, one of the ABCC members took a car home with him and on his ride in to the track, aggressively I might add, overheated it and shut down on him.

Every car has an achille's heal. I guess this is it.

[KLang]

fwiw, reading about lots of problems with 335s

How long ago was this? I wonder if they've figured out the problem yet. I haven't seen any mention on a couple of BMW boards I checked on Monday.

I drove both the 328 and the 335 this past weekend. Very nice car, I like it. The power in the 328 was probably adequate for daily use but the 335 was :D .

[Dirty Sanchez]

a couple days ago.

[KLang]

a couple days ago.

If they haven't yet they better find a fix soon. They are replacing the 330 sedan with the 335 for '07 as well.