View Full Version : Why is everyone all of a sudden a terrorist suspect?
TrueBrit
08-11-06, 03:08 PM
There's a difference between willing to die and not needing to die. If terrorists could remotely fly planes into buildings, they wouldn't be hijacking them and flying them themselves. Doesn't mean they aren't willing to die.
I disagree with you. Isn't the whole point that you get martyrdom and 72 virgins and a free iPod and a year's subscription to SI, or something like that?
RaceGrrl
08-11-06, 03:10 PM
Some Muslims are white, blonde, American women with anglo names. Stick that in your profile.
Look, you're paying for a ticket to fly yourself somewhere as safely as possible. You're not paying for the right to take your makeup or latte or juicebox into the cabin. It's not going to kill me to have to drink Pepsi products served onboard instead of Coke, but I'm willing to make that sacrifice in the name of public safety. :rolleyes:
There are plenty of other ways to get banned objects onboard if people are determined enough. Drug mules have been doing it for years. In our hometown, a woman recently smuggled a gun into the county jail where her boyfriend was being held. Short of doing cavity searches and full body xrays/CT scans no security measure is going to always work.
For me the bottom line is this: if you don't want to be inconvenienced, don't fly.
:thumbup: for the civil discussion here.
Insomniac
08-11-06, 03:14 PM
Exactly! They were ALL Middle Eastern Males, the young ones are the worst. Start Racial profiling and end this politically correctness B.S! :thumbup:
I don't know that any of them were Middle Eastern. Parts of their names seem to be Middle Eastern/Arabic/Muslim, but I haven't seen any pictures. One person's last name was Patel. Patel is traditionally an Indian last name, not Middle Eastern. Should they also check all Indians? That's another billion people. They're skin color can vary too, lighter (check all Italians) or darker (check all African Americans).
This would seem semi-reasonable if the security checks weren't working right now. Right now, you want to target a specific group based on your annoyance that grandmas and kids get scrutinized, not because what they are doing now isn't working.
Some Muslims are white, blonde, American women with anglo names. Stick that in your profile.
That's fine. But those people were not the 19 on the 9-11 flights, or the ones who blew themselves up in the London tube or the 19 listed today. That's my profile. How can you tell if someone is Muslim anyways? That's not the point. Spend time questioning and searching potential suspects, not half-a$$ing checking everyone the same. That's the issue. And, I might be one that is checked extra well before I get on a flight. So far, all the terrorists look pretty much the same. I have yet to see an Chinese Old Lady or Black 5 year-old.
RaceGrrl
08-11-06, 03:21 PM
You can't tell. That's exactly my point.
Some Arab men, believe it or not, may look like your profile of a Muslim but are Christian. :gomer:
You can't tell. That's exactly my point.
Some Arab men, believe it or not, may look like your profile of a Muslim but are Christian. :gomer:
That's fine. Check them. You are checking them now anyways, so what's the issue? Spend the time checking them more then a 75 year-old Asian grand-mother. At least you might find something more then a chapstick.
Dr. Corkski
08-11-06, 03:27 PM
You can check them out all you want, but it's useless when you don't have any idea what they are planning to do.
Really, if you think interviewing someone that's prepared to die is going to uncover plots, then you probably aren't even smart enough to work as a mall security guard.
cameraman
08-11-06, 03:27 PM
A large percentage of southeast asian grandmothers are muslims. You had best adjust your profile.
Insomniac
08-11-06, 03:32 PM
I disagree with you. Isn't the whole point that you get martyrdom and 72 virgins and a free iPod and a year's subscription to SI, or something like that?
I don't know what they think, but I can say a friend explained to me that any Muslim who reaches heaven gets 72 virgins, not just martyrs.
RaceGrrl
08-11-06, 03:32 PM
Maybe that 75 year old lady is Ibrahim's grandmother and she's really really pissed off that he got caught since she's been funding him. However she's old and has nothing to lose by internally smuggling explosives onto the plane. Let's just let her through security with only a cursory check since we all know 75 year old grannies are harmless.
oddlycalm
08-11-06, 03:38 PM
That's fine. Check them. You are checking them now anyways, so what's the issue? Spend the time checking them more then a 75 year-old Asian grand-mother. At least you might find something more then a chapstick. Quick reality check. The country with the largest muslim population happens to be in Asia, not the middle east. How hard would it be for a family member to give grandma a gift bottle of explosive gel to carry through security?
The Israelis have the most experience with airport security and use a system based on interviews, but it takes time and they have nowhere near the volume of traffic that the large US airports have.
oc
Dr. Corkski
08-11-06, 03:40 PM
Quick reality check. The country with the largest muslim population happens to be in Asia, not the middle east. How hard would it be for a family member to give grandma a gift bottle of explosive gel to carry through security?Nah, it's just not possible for any terrorists to be smart enough to find a way around security that is in place.
[/ignorance]
I think we spend way too much time worrying about the airplane issue.
IF (a big if) we are going to wring our hands and worry - we should be looking at "soft" targets in this country. There is no good reason we haven't seen that type of attack here. It just hasn't happened yet.
That said, we can't live life seeing a terrorist behind every tree (literally or figuratively). Once we do that, the terrorists have won.
As a quick example, I was called to a scene within the last month. A bridal shop was altering a NEW gown when a white powder seemed to fall out of a seam. They called 911 fearing a terrorist attack :shakehead .
RaceGrrl
08-11-06, 04:00 PM
Exactly, Elmo. Targeting shopping malls, hospitals, sports venues, concert halls and outdoor festivals will instill more fear than blowing up the occasional airplane.
Exactly, Elmo. Targeting shopping malls, hospitals, sports venues, concert halls and outdoor festivals will instill more fear than blowing up the occasional airplane.
But they showed yesterday they are still after airplanes. We have no choice but to address that threat. They aren't after the occasional airplane. They seem more interested in large scale coordinated attacks.
Dr. Corkski
08-11-06, 04:14 PM
Exactly, Elmo. Targeting shopping malls, hospitals, sports venues, concert halls and outdoor festivals will instill more fear than blowing up the occasional airplane.Airplane attacks beat those in terms of economic impact and shock value.
You can check them out all you want, but it's useless when you don't have any idea what they are planning to do.
Really, if you think interviewing someone that's prepared to die is going to uncover plots, then you probably aren't even smart enough to work as a mall security guard.
Ya, but if he has hazaderous metarial on him then you'll find it won't you? Throwing away everyone's coffee is brilliant security work aint it? Making a women drink her breast milk is the makings of the New York chief of police. :saywhat: If I was a women and they made me do that, I'd dump the milk and wip my breast out in the middle of the airplane and won't give a f*** what anybody thought! :eek:
RaceGrrl
08-11-06, 04:30 PM
Airplane attacks beat those in terms of economic impact and shock value.
I agree that airplane attacks have a great economic impact, but attacking a hospital full of sick and dying patients would be pretty damned shocking. Targeting sports stadiums would certainly have an economic impact.
The horror of the WTC attacks was not that they were hit by hijacked airplanes, IMO. The most horrible aspect of those attacks was the fact that thousands of people were successfully targeted at once. The airplanes were the weapon of choice and tragically the passengers on those planes were just collateral damage to the hijackers.
All I see is the same argument based on personal convenience. It really is too bad you couldn't carry your latte with you, really... And someone has yet to proffer a solution beyond "they're arabs & brown" criteria. How do you reconcile dealing with muslim north africans who are the descendants of western colonists? And someone has yet to present how Starbucks & L'oreal trump The Constitution of the United States of America.
I mean, damn, this is one brown dude. :gomer:
http://cbarbier.blog.lemonde.fr/photos/uncategorized/zizou.jpg
I had no idea a Patel was involved in yesterday's goings on, that blows a massive hole in the former profiling argument. And as OC said & someone else alluded to, the largest Muslim population in the world resides in Indonesia. Not Arabia.
and a year's subscription to SI
That's supposed to be an incentive? I'd stay alive just to avoid having to read that rag :D
You can check them out all you want, but it's useless when you don't have any idea what they are planning to do.
Really, if you think interviewing someone that's prepared to die is going to uncover plots, then you probably aren't even smart enough to work as a mall security guard.
Really? How about working as head of security at an airport?
Rafi Ron, former head of security at Tel Aviv, Israel's Ben Gurion Airport, said screeners should focus more on finding suspicious people than on hunting for potential terrorist tools.
"It is extremely difficult for people to disguise the fact they are under tremendous amount of stress, that they are going to kill themselves and a lot of people around them in a short amount of time, and all the other factors that effect their behavior," Ron said.
Link (http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/08/11/air.security/index.html)
Fair enough, but someone has yet to explain how not allowing some one to carry a bottle of water is going to make a flight from L.A to New York safer? My understanding is they found a plot to blow up plains coming from the UK to the USA. :rolleyes:
Fair enough, but someone has yet to explain how not allowing some one to carry a bottle of water is going to make a flight from L.A to New York safer? My understanding is they found a plot to blow up plains coming from the UK to the USA. :rolleyes:
you first make the argument that euro security > us security. And then you're going to make the argument above? :laugh: :rolleyes:
Fair enough, but someone has yet to explain how not allowing some one to carry a bottle of water is going to make a flight from L.A to New York safer? My understanding is they found a plot to blow up plains coming from the UK to the USA. :rolleyes:
What if they hadn't discovered all parts of the plot? There is a story floating around somewhere that a couple of the suspects made calls to the U.S. recently.
you first make the argument that euro security > us security. And then you're going to make the argument above? :laugh: :rolleyes:
The US security vs Euro security was pre 9-11. But, ya.
.... we can't live life seeing a terrorist behind every tree (literally or figuratively). Once we do that, the terrorists have won.
As a quick example, I was called to a scene within the last month. A bridal shop was altering a NEW gown when a white powder seemed to fall out of a seam. They called 911 fearing a terrorist attack .
Right on, dude! :thumbup:
If you drive a pick-up truck on the freeways in Los Angeles today and a small card board box falls out of it, you can bet that freeway will be shut down for hours once some cop sees a card board box on the side of the road!
This is a true story. In Hollywood in May a friend of my dad's took her barbeque and left it on the corner near the trash, basically to give it away to anyone who wanted it. The next morning she's hears helicopters flying over head, turns on the news and sees her neirberhood on TV. She goes out of the house to see what's up and cop yells at her to get back inside, then she sees that robot-bomb deal grab her barbeque. They blew it up. 3-hours they blocked the neirberhood, because some ditzy blonde threw her barbeque away! :saywhat: When she told me that story, I was like no f***ing WAY!!!!!! :laugh:
Are we not going a little ape shht here with this non-sense? :shakehead
Tony George
08-11-06, 05:39 PM
... wip my breast out in the middle of the airplane and won't give a f*** what anybody thought! :eek:
Hey now were talking! :laugh:
extramundane
08-11-06, 05:41 PM
And as OC said & someone else alluded to, the largest Muslim population in the world resides in Indonesia. Not Arabia.
Not only that, there are far more Muslims who aren't Arab than Muslims who are. Unless something's changed very recently, Indonesia, Pakistan, India and Bangladesh are the top 4 in Muslim population.
ferrarigod
08-11-06, 05:50 PM
I have to depart from my liberal bretheren on this one. Frisking 84 yr old grandmas, or 9-month old kids is absolutely bloody stupid. These no-fly lists wouldn't even be useful as bog paper, and the thought that we are safer today than we were prior to 9/11 is bull.
We KNOW which ethnic group is largely responsible for terrorist attacks, we KNOW which religious groups these ethnicity's align with, why not focus attention on those dis-affected youths within that community and get to the source of the problem.
The reason that the British intelligence forces were able to thwart this plot was due to a tip from WITHIN that community. We need to encourage that reasonable, sensible, peace-loving majority to root out those that bring such shame and hatred into their religion and expose them for who they really are.
I am NOT a racist, I am NOT a bigot but there comes a time when you have to call it as it is.
In all the years I've known you, this is the first thing we agree on :eek: :eek:
Wow TB
I disagree with you. Isn't the whole point that you get martyrdom and 72 virgins and a free iPod and a year's subscription to SI, or something like that?
hahaha. funniest thing all day.
Dr. Corkski
08-11-06, 05:57 PM
Ya, but if he has hazaderous metarial on him then you'll find it won't you? Throwing away everyone's coffee is brilliant security work aint it? Making a women drink her breast milk is the makings of the New York chief of police. :saywhat: If I was a women and they made me do that, I'd dump the milk and wip my breast out in the middle of the airplane and won't give a f*** what anybody thought! :eek:Which would be simple only if there was only one way to cause an explosion.
Read up on Project Bojinka.
RacinM3
08-11-06, 05:58 PM
If it inconveniences you, oh well (It's not like you can't check the makeup at the counter, and makeup isn't some life sustaining product a person requires unfettered access to 100% of the time).
If you'd flown next to the last woman I flew next to you wouldn't be saying that.
Back OT - what's a 65 year old Grandma going to do with 72 virgins? That's what I want to know. :saywhat:
If you'd flown next to the last woman I flew next to you wouldn't be saying that.
The same lady sat next to me on the train into the city Wednesday morning. You're 55, woman. Your lipstick status isn't crucial to your social life. I seriously thought I was back at Clear Lake High School http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/pukey.gif
New Man Law proposal: as long as women adjust makeup in public, men can readjust the boys at will as well. :D
Winston Wolfe
08-11-06, 06:25 PM
Heard a good one today at "the watercooler" at work.
Seems that many of the terror suspects who fit the profile are in some way compensated when they go to (their version of) Heaven. (virgins, playstations, free SI subscriptions, etc.)
And is many cases, their family that remains behind, on earth, gets rewarded in some way (financially, spiritually, etc.)....(since their husband, son gave thier life to "the cause")
Since it is always so easy to identify who the terrorists are AFTER the fact, why not make it public knowledge that after it is determined that you are the one who did the terror act, your entire family is imprisoned as well ???? Seize their assets (if any), take away the incentive for this "volunteer" or their ability to get involved...
yeah, it violates their family "civil rights".... yeah, it requires foreign governments to cooperate, but if we well and truly are going to put a kink in the road for those individuals who are preparing themselves for this line of work, then it may slow things down a bit....
just another angle, I guess...
TKGAngel
08-11-06, 06:49 PM
Airplane attacks beat those in terms of economic impact and shock value.
True. Look what happened after 9/11. The stock market dropped, the airline industry fell into a rut that its just now becoming to come out of, and the US media covered nothing but 9/11 for 4-5 days straight.
New Man Law proposal: as long as women adjust makeup in public, men can readjust the boys at will as well. :D
There's a difference between a slight makeup adjustment and y'all making an adjustment south of the border. ;)
There's a difference between a slight makeup adjustment and y'all making an adjustment south of the border. ;)
"slight" my ass. more like an industrial paint job. :p
ferrarigod
08-11-06, 07:11 PM
True. Look what happened after 9/11. The stock market dropped, the airline industry fell into a rut that its just now becoming to come out of, and the US media covered nothing but 9/11 for 4-5 days straight.
The stock market was already on a downhill trend, as were the airlines. Yes, Sept. 11th increased the drop, but the drop was already in focus. Just thought I'd share that. Most money managers knew something had to give, they thought it would be a market condition however, and not an act of terror.
Since it is always so easy to identify who the terrorists are AFTER the fact, why not make it public knowledge that after it is determined that you are the one who did the terror act, your entire family is imprisoned as well ???? Seize their assets (if any), take away the incentive for this "volunteer" or their ability to get involved...
yeah, it violates their family "civil rights".... yeah, it requires foreign governments to cooperate, but if we well and truly are going to put a kink in the road for those individuals who are preparing themselves for this line of work, then it may slow things down a bit....
just another angle, I guess...
This is interesting man.
But, then you might have 1 guy do the 'deed' only to get back at his folks. :shakehead
Insomniac
08-11-06, 07:32 PM
Heard a good one today at "the watercooler" at work.
Seems that many of the terror suspects who fit the profile are in some way compensated when they go to (their version of) Heaven. (virgins, playstations, free SI subscriptions, etc.)
And is many cases, their family that remains behind, on earth, gets rewarded in some way (financially, spiritually, etc.)....(since their husband, son gave thier life to "the cause")
Since it is always so easy to identify who the terrorists are AFTER the fact, why not make it public knowledge that after it is determined that you are the one who did the terror act, your entire family is imprisoned as well ???? Seize their assets (if any), take away the incentive for this "volunteer" or their ability to get involved...
yeah, it violates their family "civil rights".... yeah, it requires foreign governments to cooperate, but if we well and truly are going to put a kink in the road for those individuals who are preparing themselves for this line of work, then it may slow things down a bit....
just another angle, I guess...
Why would you punish the family of someone who committed a crime? Putting aside the cruelty of that, it sure won't help your cause any. It would be another reason for people to follow fundamental teachings.
Why would you punish the family of someone who committed a crime? Putting aside the cruelty of that, it sure won't help your cause any. It would be another reason for people to follow fundamental teachings.
Actually not, because according to the MSNBC piece on suicide bombers; where they interviewed a guy that went on a bus in Isreal, but obviously failed. He said his family was going to receive $6,500 for him to do it and that was the reason he was going to do it. So, there might be something there.
ferrarigod
08-11-06, 09:28 PM
More illegal search and seizure without warrants on subway systems. Lets just keep giving our rights away until we have none.
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060811/2006-08-11T203422Z_01_N11455727_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-NEWYORK-DC.html
The funny part is the court ruled that is was 'kinda' illegal, but since it was public safety, its ok. Listen, I'm going to be back in NYC from now-Christmas soon, and I'd rather the risk then illegal searching.
What a bunch of cr@p. I'm tired of this, how many more rights, and privacy do we have to give away before THE TERRORISTS WIN? I thought the whole point was to fight them and not fear monger the population just as they would want.
Guess that was a lie in the post 9-11 politcal world as well. Absolutely sickening.
They seem more interested in large scale coordinated attacks.
Maybe because we fixate on that.
In terms of soft targets, forget the numbers and look at the target. Imagine a coordinated attack on elementary schools or daycare centers.
I think we need to learn to take care of ourselves too & I don't mean duct tape and plastic for the windows. We can't handle an extended power outage and we go bonkers at the first snowfall (got to buy bread and milk :shakehead ).
More illegal search and seizure without warrants on subway systems. Lets just keep giving our rights away until we have none.
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20060811/2006-08-11T203422Z_01_N11455727_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-SECURITY-NEWYORK-DC.html
The funny part is the court ruled that is was 'kinda' illegal, but since it was public safety, its ok. Listen, I'm going to be back in NYC from now-Christmas soon, and I'd rather the risk then illegal searching.
What a bunch of cr@p. I'm tired of this, how many more rights, and privacy do we have to give away before THE TERRORISTS WIN? I thought the whole point was to fight them and not fear monger the population just as they would want.
Guess that was a lie in the post 9-11 politcal world as well. Absolutely sickening.
If the court ruled it isn't illegal, then it isnt technically an "illegal search and seizure." Also, where is the seizure that you are talking about. All the security guards do is check bags for a few seconds.
Its no different than when you go to a sporting event and every woman has to show the contents of her purse.
What exactly would you like them to do on the subway system to prevent people from bring bombs aboard the train?
And what are you trying to hide that is such a big deal anyway?
racer2c
08-11-06, 11:49 PM
And what are you trying to hide that is such a big deal anyway?
The German gestapo and Soviet KGB used to ask the same question right after they busted down your door in the middle of the night.
Wow!
I don't know where to start.
Racial profiling should be used. But it is only one tool. Use them all. Civil liberties are of no use if you just flew into the World Trade Center. Or into the Pentagon. Or if you allowed the attacks to happen from the UK. These phone searches were not eavesdropping, just info gathering of anomolies in your phone useage. If you look like a terrorist.............
Some of you argue that the gov is post active, instead of pro active. The pro active approach comes at the cost of giving up your right to travel with your Starbucks, and imported water. I'll pay that price, if it means that my family and I make it to our destination. If you don't like it, ride your bike.
The post active approach means that you might not have to give up your Starbucks, but I would bet that you are the first in line to blame someone else when they don't find a terrorist and they blow up something else.
You can't have it both ways. You want it both ways, you just can't have it.
You don't have the RIGHT to take an airplane. You don't have the RIGHT to fly or travel by commercial travel of any kind. It is a priviedge. That is all. If you don't like that fact, don't do it. You don't have the right to go to movies, to go to Safeway, or get your hair cut.
These are all things that we take for granted, and when we can't do them, although we might be inconveinenced, or even feel slighted, it has nothing to do with our RIGHTS.
Please don't confuse your inconvenience, with your rights.
Remember the sign, NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO SERVICE?
You don't have the right.
And for Gods sake, don't compare our Gov trying to protect us from the terrorists, to the KGB.
Take off your tin foil hat. You look funny.
racer2c
08-12-06, 12:36 AM
Bah, I can argue both sides of this issue. Most probably can. Without diving into a 1000 word diatribe, there is more to the issue than discussing the right to take shampoo on an airplane. Who doesn't want a safe country (which is silly as nothing is guaranteed in this world)? But one thing to keep in mind is that the personal rights the govt takes away from you in the name of "homeland security" are the rights you'll never get back again.
Civil liberties are of no use if you just flew into the World Trade Center. Our forefathers believed that life was not worth living without freedom. I suppose that freedom handed on a silver platter is easier to give up for a little more comfort and safety. Especially if it's someone else's freedom.
racer2c
08-12-06, 12:40 AM
And for Gods sake, don't compare our Gov trying to protect us from the terrorists, to the KGB.
:shakehead
http://shs.westport.k12.ct.us/jwb/AP/Images/BombShelter.jpg
:shakehead
http://shs.westport.k12.ct.us/jwb/AP/Images/BombShelter.jpg
Them were the good old days. I used to love it when we'd all climb down in to the bomb shelter, open up a can of water and laugh at the commies.
why not make it public knowledge that after it is determined that you are the one who did the terror act, your entire family is imprisoned as well ???? Seize their assets (if any), take away the incentive for this "volunteer" or their ability to get involved...
yeah, it violates their family "civil rights".... yeah, it requires foreign governments to cooperate, but if we well and truly are going to put a kink in the road for those individuals who are preparing themselves for this line of work, then it may slow things down a bit....
just another angle, I guess...Isn't that the type of thing they did in the Soviet Union?
A way to freeze the assets gained from an act, sure, but not imprisonment for the family. No.
Make sure the fam. doesn't benefit from it, ok.
ferrarigod
08-12-06, 02:35 AM
Its no different than when you go to a sporting event and every woman has to show the contents of her purse.
Patdowns are now illegal in FL, and I believe purse inspections and such are on the way to being found illegal also. Its called probable cause, not everyone has to do what the police say.
And what are you trying to hide that is such a big deal anyway?
That is such a lame arguement. Just because I have nothing to hide, does not mean I am willing to give up my constitutional rights for illegal searches. Just because I'm not a woman doesn't mean I shouldn't respect womens suffrage, and the amendments that followed.
You don't bend the constitution for the terrorists, and you don't hurt society by making them do this. You win by overcoming odds, they win when we close off our society and shut down business as usual. They wanted to have a change, and now we are giving them one.
As someone on another forum stated:
But based on the responses, maybe its time to change the lyrics from
"land of the free, home of the brave"
to
"land of the secure, home of the scared"
:thumdown:
ferrari, you failed to answer my question.
what do you want them to do instead of inspecting bags to help prevent terrorist attacks on the subway?
B3RACER1a
08-12-06, 09:37 AM
Profiling wont do any good...they'll just get around that. There are wackos from every belief and every decent, and some of those wackos are willing to make a name for themselves and kill some civilians. Everyone knows or will know that stopping only the people that look like terrorists isnt going to work. Its already happened with OK City anyways.
I think we've all missed a major point here though. If you see something suspicious, report it. Its not just securities job to hunt and find these people, ITS EVERYONES RESPONSIBILITY. Thats the only way we are going to be able to stop this is if we are all educated and report the suspicious people...just like how this plot was stopped. And I'm not saying just at the airport. Our government cant stop it all, there is simply too much. They are constantly working at it. How many attacks/plots have been avioded that we dont hear about?
We have to take preventative action, which in this case, is not profiling.
This is not a racial problem. The roots lay in the religion and what these people are taught. They are brought up hating the 'tyrants'. Last time I checked, religion didnt have a physical profile to match the person to.
Tifosi24
08-12-06, 09:43 AM
Ferrarigod, you advocate racial profiling but piss and moan about bag searches at sporting events. It would appear that you feel your civil rights are more important than those of Muslims or those individuals that resemble them. If you are concerned about the erosion of other rights you would also be unhappy with racial profiling.
Dr. Corkski
08-12-06, 10:49 AM
Ferrarigod, you advocate racial profiling but piss and moan about bag searches at sporting events. It would appear that you feel your civil rights are more important than those of Muslims or those individuals that resemble them. If you are concerned about the erosion of other rights you would also be unhappy with racial profiling. :thumbup:
Civil liberties are of no use to people that look Muslim if my convenience is affected. :gomer:
Insomniac
08-12-06, 01:24 PM
Actually not, because according to the MSNBC piece on suicide bombers; where they interviewed a guy that went on a bus in Isreal, but obviously failed. He said his family was going to receive $6,500 for him to do it and that was the reason he was going to do it. So, there might be something there.
No, I understand that. Saddam publicly said and paid the familes of suicide bombers 10s of thousands of dollars. But the family that is left behind didn't commit any crime. Their dead family member did. What WW said was to put the family in prison. Why should the wife/mother, husband/father and children/brothers/sisters be punished? How would you feel if one of your family members committed a crime and the rest of your family was put in jail? Would anyone be outraged and want revenge? Want your family's freedom at almost any cost?
Insomniac
08-12-06, 01:28 PM
And what are you trying to hide that is such a big deal anyway?
That's a terrible question. Most people don't have anything to illegal to hide. At the same time, there are many things people don't want to share with anyone/everyone. It's for checks and balances. It's to prevent abuse by the authorities. That's why they aren't supposed to be able to scrutinize everyone until they find just cause. They need just cause first.
Insomniac
08-12-06, 01:37 PM
Wow!
I don't know where to start.
Racial profiling should be used. But it is only one tool. Use them all. Civil liberties are of no use if you just flew into the World Trade Center. Or into the Pentagon. Or if you allowed the attacks to happen from the UK. These phone searches were not eavesdropping, just info gathering of anomolies in your phone useage. If you look like a terrorist.............
Some of you argue that the gov is post active, instead of pro active. The pro active approach comes at the cost of giving up your right to travel with your Starbucks, and imported water. I'll pay that price, if it means that my family and I make it to our destination. If you don't like it, ride your bike.
The post active approach means that you might not have to give up your Starbucks, but I would bet that you are the first in line to blame someone else when they don't find a terrorist and they blow up something else.
You can't have it both ways. You want it both ways, you just can't have it.
You don't have the RIGHT to take an airplane. You don't have the RIGHT to fly or travel by commercial travel of any kind. It is a priviedge. That is all. If you don't like that fact, don't do it. You don't have the right to go to movies, to go to Safeway, or get your hair cut.
These are all things that we take for granted, and when we can't do them, although we might be inconveinenced, or even feel slighted, it has nothing to do with our RIGHTS.
Please don't confuse your inconvenience, with your rights.
Remember the sign, NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO SERVICE?
You don't have the right.
And for Gods sake, don't compare our Gov trying to protect us from the terrorists, to the KGB.
Take off your tin foil hat. You look funny.
Hey, guess what? The government didn't need the illegal NSA wiretapping. They used the FISA courts and got a warrant and passed the information to the UK and they caught these guys. They don't need to violate our rights and re-write the constitution to catch terrorists. They had the information to stop 9/11 without doing anything illegal, but they didn't put it together.
You can protect this country and its citizens without destroying the founding principles and taking away civil liberties.
We're not at 1984 levels, but we're a lot closer than we were 5 years ago. If the executive branch remains unchecked, we could end up there all in the name of "protecting" us.
Also, what happens when they decide it's not sufficient enough to monitor international-US calls. They decide, they need to see who the person on the US side also called in the US. Then they want to see who that person called. How long until you're being monitored? All of us? Better watch out for who you anger, before you know it, you're connected to a terrorist, you're arrested and convicted without being able to attend your own trial based on hearsay evidence.
Here's what the US Airports need to do.
First, if you've been to Italy you would have seen this. Send National Guard with Assault weapons to walk around the airports. This intimidation works.
Second, ban all this e-mail ticket nonsense. You must check in. You can do at a 'self check-in' kiosk, but you need to be in the check-in line. Another stop that lets professionals and cameras take a look at you. No more printing out tickets at home and running straight to the gates.
Thirdly, do what the Israeli’s do, interview everyone. Do this when they are in line to check bags and in the security line to get to the gates, and maybe even at the gates themselves if someone is suspicious. After each interview you get a stamp on your boarding pass, depending on how you did. I doubt very much all the 19 guys from 9-11 would pass through the interview process.
Forget this whole liquid B.S because this wastes so much time in the security lines. Checking everyone's carry-on bag by hand is crazy time consuming. Time can be spent interviewing and better checking suspicious people. Besides, some one can easily sew a secrete compartment in the lining of the bags or his pants. So, if someone really wants to get something that a metal detector will not pick up through, he will. So, this is basically pointless anyways. :rolleyes:
This is something that should be done for ever. No more of this for the time being B.S. Like the no nail clippers on board ban, which lasted about a year and a half.
devilmaster
08-12-06, 01:58 PM
That's a terrible question. Most people don't have anything to illegal to hide.
Flip side of that though:
Suggesting racial profiling is basically asking that question above to anyone who looks like a middle eastern young man. I have no doubt, that between thursday and now, there has been at least one American or Canadian, middle eastern decent, maybe a citizen or maybe even born here, who has gotten on a plane. And I have no doubt that there has been at least one person who has looked at him and either shot him a dirty look, or just wondered if he was a terrorist.
That man probably has nothing to hide. Maybe he owns a business. Maybe he's a vice president of WalMart. Maybe he's just like almost every other American and Canadian out there.
There are near 400 million North Americans. The known active terrorists arrested in the past few years has numbered in the hundreds. Racially profiling is wasting money as badly as searching grandmas and babies.
Insomniac
08-12-06, 02:45 PM
Flip side of that though:
Suggesting racial profiling is basically asking that question above to anyone who looks like a middle eastern young man. I have no doubt, that between thursday and now, there has been at least one American or Canadian, middle eastern decent, maybe a citizen or maybe even born here, who has gotten on a plane. And I have no doubt that there has been at least one person who has looked at him and either shot him a dirty look, or just wondered if he was a terrorist.
That man probably has nothing to hide. Maybe he owns a business. Maybe he's a vice president of WalMart. Maybe he's just like almost every other American and Canadian out there.
There are near 400 million North Americans. The known active terrorists arrested in the past few years has numbered in the hundreds. Racially profiling is wasting money as badly as searching grandmas and babies.
I wasn't saying that to encourage the asking of that question or racial profiling. I was saying it for the exact opposite reason. People like to say "If you have nothing to hide, then <insert civil liberty to take away>." Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't mean you should throw the US Constitution away.
devilmaster
08-12-06, 02:52 PM
I wasn't saying that to encourage the asking of that question or racial profiling. I was saying it for the exact opposite reason. People like to say "If you have nothing to hide, then <insert civil liberty to take away>." Just because you have nothing to hide doesn't mean you should throw the US Constitution away.
Nor was I implying that you had. Its just your comment was a natural lead in for the point I felt I needed to make.
ferrarigod
08-12-06, 03:13 PM
ferrari, you failed to answer my question.
what do you want them to do instead of inspecting bags to help prevent terrorist attacks on the subway?
There is nothing you can do. They can search the big stations, but the little ones in the middle of nowhere where you can board the train and be on it forever, they can't do anything about. A terrorist could easily board in queens or brooklyn and get to penn station, or grand central, and there are no cops on the inside, and no way to stop people.
Also, I walked by National Guard people every day getting onto the 1,2,3 trains at Penn Station, and while I never got stoppd(i don't carry a bag) the people the stop are random and is completely mental.
There is no way to stop it, period. If a terrorist wants on, they will board from a small elevated line out in the bronx or brooklyn and then can do whatever they want.
We have an open society, to do what some propose would be changing for the terrorists, and that is exactly what they want us to do. I don't think we should change ourselves, I think we should persevere and make them change.
We have an open society, to do what some propose would be changing for the terrorists, and that is exactly what they want us to do. I don't think we should change ourselves, I think we should persevere and make them change.
Actually I think their goal isn't to get us to become more strict, its to get us to become more dead. :gomer:
ferrarigod
08-12-06, 04:49 PM
Actually I think their goal isn't to get us to become more strict, its to get us to become more dead. :gomer:
:laugh:
In truth, they want everyone to become muslim, and every nation to have prayer songs blasting from the capitals every day. To live by the words of Allah. In my mind it is very close to the crusades, except the other ways around.
:laugh:
In truth, they want everyone to become muslim, and every nation to have prayer songs blasting from the capitals every day. To live by the words of Allah. In my mind it is very close to the crusades, except the other ways around.
Oh great, so we have to wait centuries before they realize that the best way to convert someone isn't to kill them? Crap.
In fairness though, I bet a lot more christians at the time agreed with the crusades, while it is only a minority of the Islamic population that wants to wipe out all non Muslims.
vancouver
08-13-06, 11:59 AM
OK, So I have just returned from Heathrow today.
One word: Chaos!
By the way, are there FBI agents patrolling all major US airports. e.g O'hare, JFK,LAX etc...?
Ed_Severson
08-13-06, 12:02 PM
The simple solution to this problem is to make the airlines, not the government, responsible for the security on board their own aircraft.
If I'm flying Continental and Continental decides that they want me to strip naked and sing a nursery rhyme before they let me board the flight, no sweat ... it's your airplane, I have to board under your conditions.
On the other hand, I have a real problem with my government searching me before I board that flight. The government has no business telling me where I can and cannot go, so long as I reach an agreement with the private company who provides my chosen method of transportation regarding what I may or may not bring with me.
TKGAngel
08-13-06, 02:45 PM
OK, So I have just returned from Heathrow today.
One word: Chaos!
By the way, are there FBI agents patrolling all major US airports. e.g O'hare, JFK,LAX etc...?
I don't know if there are FBI's running around the airports, but I believe that the National Guards have been called up by governors to partrol in Boston and NYC and a few other places. Nothing says good-morning like the picture in your newspaper of a National Guardsman with an AK47 at the airport.
chop456
08-13-06, 03:03 PM
Nothing says good-morning like the picture in your newspaper of a National Guardsman with an AK47 at the airport.
That would certainly be unusual. :D
devilmaster
08-13-06, 03:07 PM
That would certainly be unusual. :D
Someone finally realize that the M-16 jams with a fleck of dust and the bullet can be deflected by a mouse fart downrange?
TKGAngel
08-13-06, 03:19 PM
That would certainly be unusual. :D
Or you know, some other big, threatening looking gun. :)
Someone finally realize that the M-16 jams with a fleck of dust and the bullet can be deflected by a mouse fart downrange?
TREASON!!! :eek:
Sean O'Gorman
08-13-06, 06:54 PM
Nothing says good-morning like the picture in your newspaper of a National Guardsman with an AK47 at the airport.
Here in Ohio, the AK47s are for our football players. :gomer:
Gangrel
08-13-06, 09:42 PM
Fair enough, but how many of those guys were suicide bombers? It's one thing to blow up a plane, but another thing to do it knowing that you are blowing yourself up as well. And, how many of those guys targeted airplanes?What about banks, super markets, or a Home Depot? When are we going to draw the line, man?
Well....Padilla was one of those muslim terrorist we are talking about here who are perfectly happy to blow themselves up for the cause. He just wasn't....well, you know....Arabic. He was a good old fashioned, homegrown, Chicago-raised Mexican gang banger. Hardly fits the profile, does he?
And no, he wasn't going to blow up a plane. That was left to Richard Reid. Ever see a picture of him? I believe his background was half English, Half Jamaican. Those were some pretty explosive shoes he was wearing, if you get my drift...but back to Padilla.
Padilla's plan was to blow up a bomb in a major US city that was loaded with radioactive materials, thus spreading a toxic dose of radioactive waste throughout a large population. My guess is, somewhere in the area of impact on that one would be a couple of Home Depots, 15 or so supermarkets, and at least 30 banks. Does that count? And I don't know for sure, but I don't think his plan involved him getting out of said city.
And who here remembers the name John Walker Lindh? He didn't even have the excuse of being a poor dumb Mexican inner city gangbanger. He was a rich white boy from California...until he decided to run off and join the Taliban. Got himself captured in a Taliban foxhole on the wrong side of the enemy line in Afganistan. We don't really know what his plan was...
So now, our profiling at the airport should include Englishmen, Jamaicans, Mexican American gangbangers, and rich white kids from California. Still think they all look the same?
Imagine this. You have all this extra security, code red, the whole 9 and these guys still blow up a plane. What would that do to the world? :confused:
Imagine this. You have all this extra security, keep it quiet, profile for Arab Muslims, run them through the wringer, keep it relatively quiet for all others, and some other rich white kid from California blows up the plane in the name of Allah using his innocent-looking pair of Nikes, and it is only after the fact that we find out about the suicide bomber's manifesto he left at his mom's house before he left. How do you think that would do for public morale?
They made a mistake making it public IMO and doing all this B.S with the liquid. They should have just started racial profiling and said nothing to nobody. Because, if these guys manage to blow a plane up now, the world as we know it is over! It would be mass panic. 9-11 no one expected it, no one did anything to prevent it. But, if it happens when everyone is looking for it, man that would be like 100 9-11's! All you are doing with this B.S is putting them back in the news and putting fear back in people's heads. As I see it, these guys have won this round. They are doing what they wanted, upsetting the western way of living.......
I am inclined to agree with you, but Scotland Yard wanted their dog and pony show with the ring they busted up, and once that can of worms was opened up, the TSA had little choice but to visibly demonstrate that they weren't going to let a plan like that go off, in the event that the entire ring was not rounded up. Sometimes the appearance of security, no matter how fabricated, is still the best security you could have. How many houses that have Brinks Home Security stickers in the windows do you think actually have an active security system installed? How about Beware of Dog signs? Hmmmmm.....
TrueBrit
08-13-06, 09:56 PM
Gangrel,
As far as I know, Padilla is guilty of TALKING about doing something naughty. There were no plans to actually put into action anything, he didn't have the contacts to DO anything about it, but as long as he was TALKING about it that's enough to shred his constitutional rights...
Richard Reid, converted into hardcore Islam, as did Walker-Lindh.
The difference between the three is that the two actual bad guys had what in common? That's right, a belief in radical fundamentalist Islam....
Next?
Gangrel
08-13-06, 10:26 PM
Gangrel,
As far as I know, Padilla is guilty of TALKING about doing something naughty. There were no plans to actually put into action anything, he didn't have the contacts to DO anything about it, but as long as he was TALKING about it that's enough to shred his constitutional rights...
Richard Reid, converted into hardcore Islam, as did Walker-Lindh.
The difference between the three is that the two actual bad guys had what in common? That's right, a belief in radical fundamentalist Islam....
Next?
They had something else in common...they were not of middle eastern descent, and therefore did not have the brown person appearance we are talking about profiling for.
Or was the plan to profile for the religion? I didn't know any of them have "Radical Fundamentalist Islam" listed on their drivers licenses. Or perhaps tatooed on their foreheads? :saywhat:
TrueBrit
08-13-06, 10:52 PM
They had something else in common...they were not of middle eastern descent, and therefore did not have the brown person appearance we are talking about profiling for.
Or was the plan to profile for the religion? I didn't know any of them have "Radical Fundamentalist Islam" listed on their drivers licenses. Or perhaps tatooed on their foreheads? :saywhat:
No, but they WERE radical fundamental followers of Islam. The latest round-up in the UK came from INSIDE the Muslim community saying that these guys were a little bent...The tip didn't say check their foreheads or their DLs...
Gangrel
08-13-06, 11:28 PM
No, but they WERE radical fundamental followers of Islam. The latest round-up in the UK came from INSIDE the Muslim community saying that these guys were a little bent...The tip didn't say check their foreheads or their DLs...
True....but not really sure how that changes that profiling would allow for other whackos to slip under the radar....that is one problem with profiling....
devilmaster
08-13-06, 11:49 PM
TREASON!!! :eek:
Pfft. If I'm going into battle, I want a battle hardened weapon that I know I can trust.
There be a reason why there are so many ak47s in the world. I always wanted the chance to fire one - to compare it with the old FN our forces used before they went to the Canadian variant of the mattel toy.
Pfft. If I'm going into battle, I want a battle hardened weapon that I know I can trust.
There be a reason why there are so many ak47s in the world. I always wanted the chance to fire one - to compare it with the old FN our forces used before they went to the Canadian variant of the mattel toy.
I was being facetious :)
Hey, guess what? The government didn't need the illegal NSA wiretapping. They used the FISA courts and got a warrant and passed the information to the UK and they caught these guys. They don't need to violate our rights and re-write the constitution to catch terrorists. They had the information to stop 9/11 without doing anything illegal, but they didn't put it together.
You can protect this country and its citizens without destroying the founding principles and taking away civil liberties.
We're not at 1984 levels, but we're a lot closer than we were 5 years ago. If the executive branch remains unchecked, we could end up there all in the name of "protecting" us.
Also, what happens when they decide it's not sufficient enough to monitor international-US calls. They decide, they need to see who the person on the US side also called in the US. Then they want to see who that person called. How long until you're being monitored? All of us? Better watch out for who you anger, before you know it, you're connected to a terrorist, you're arrested and convicted without being able to attend your own trial based on hearsay evidence.
Please humour me with ONE bit of evidence of this happening, not heresay.
They can monitor me if they want, and if I have something to hide, I should be scared. I'm not. If they want to tell me I can't bring shampoo onto an airplane, and you equate that with a loss of civil liberties, well, you got me. Are you the type who is denied c/l when they are out of the brand of lunchmeat at the supermarket?
People complain and even blame the current gov. about 9/11. These are probably the same people who are crying aobut the "illegal" searches and the "loss of civil liberties". But do they notice that there has not been ONE attack on American soil since 9/11, using the now widely reported procedures? Who do they "blame" for that?
Back to the original post.
Use racial profiling as one tool for getting these homicide bombers and terrorists. Use background checks, bag searches, shoe searches, bomb sniffing dogs, x-ray, pat-downs, wiretaps, e-mail taps, beer taps, cc tracking and any other method they deem useful to them, to catch and stop these Muslim terrorists.
My inconvenience, cannot be compared to any loss of liberties.
And I am sorry, anbody who compares an airport screener to the KGB, should have full cavity searches, each and every time they travel anywhere.
Insomniac
08-14-06, 11:39 AM
Please humour me with ONE bit of evidence of this happening, not heresay.
They can monitor me if they want, and if I have something to hide, I should be scared. I'm not. If they want to tell me I can't bring shampoo onto an airplane, and you equate that with a loss of civil liberties, well, you got me. Are you the type who is denied c/l when they are out of the brand of lunchmeat at the supermarket?
People complain and even blame the current gov. about 9/11. These are probably the same people who are crying aobut the "illegal" searches and the "loss of civil liberties". But do they notice that there has not been ONE attack on American soil since 9/11, using the now widely reported procedures? Who do they "blame" for that?
Back to the original post.
Use racial profiling as one tool for getting these homicide bombers and terrorists. Use background checks, bag searches, shoe searches, bomb sniffing dogs, x-ray, pat-downs, wiretaps, e-mail taps, beer taps, cc tracking and any other method they deem useful to them, to catch and stop these Muslim terrorists.
My inconvenience, cannot be compared to any loss of liberties.
And I am sorry, anbody who compares an airport screener to the KGB, should have full cavity searches, each and every time they travel anywhere.
I'm not sure what part you want proof. Aside from the fact that the FISA is top secret, so anything that happens there is classified. That would be like me trying to prove God exists. But, here is the best I have for you. You can choose whether to believe it or not.
In the days before the alleged airliner bombing plot was exposed, more than 200 FBI agents followed up leads inside the United States looking for potential connections to British and Pakistani suspects. The investigation was so large, officials said, that it brought a significant surge in warrants for searches and surveillance from the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court, the secret panel that oversees most clandestine surveillance.
One official estimated that scores of secret U.S. warrants were dedicated solely to the London plot. The government usually averages a few dozen a week for all counterintelligence investigations, according to federal statistics.
The purpose of the recent warrants included monitoring telephone calls that some of the London suspects made to the United States, two sources said.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/08/11/AR2006081102053_2.html
The last part of what I said was a "what if". But it was based on things the Bush Administration wants.
A copy of the 32-page draft, obtained by The Washington Post and others, explains how the government would create commissions of U.S. military personnel who could impose a penalty of life imprisonment or death based on evidence never disclosed to the accused.
The draft initially said that only "alien enemy combatants" who are not U.S. citizens could be tried by military commissions. That phrase is crossed off in the text of the draft; now, the draft appears to cover anyone "engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners" who violates laws of war or provisions of this bill.
"A person charged with an offense under this Act may be tried and punished at any time without limitations," the bill states. Speedy trials would not be required. Defendants would be entitled to two principal lawyers, one from U.S. military ranks and a civilian cleared to read materials classified as "Secret."
Hearsay information would be admissible at the discretion of the military lawyer presiding over the commission, unless circumstances rendered it unreliable or unnecessary. That lawyer could close the proceedings to protect any information that might "cause identifiable damage to the public interest" or endanger participants or national-security interests.
The lawyer also could order "exclusion of the defendant" and his civilian counsel, but instances of this should be "no broader than necessary." Classified evidence could be provided to defendants in summary form but would not be required if doing so would compromise intelligence sources.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/politics/2003160438_detainees29.html
Also, under the Patriot Act you can be held indefinitely with nio access to legal counsel or charges being filed against you.
And if you read my posts in this thread, I never had any issue with liquids being banned. In fact, the exact opposite. I'm talking about civil liberties in the US Constitution. To be more specific, the 4th Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Warrantless monitoring of our phone records, internet usage and banking is a violation of our 4th Amendment rights. I'm glad you don't mind, but you know the people who founded our country had 10 amendments drawn up to ensure our freedom.
The Administration already doesn't care about the first amendment. They remove protesters and anyone who would have a differing opinion to the Administration from rallies, or those wearing T-Shirts or displaying signs that don't match the agenda. In case you forgot what the first amendment was:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
And now, they want to forget about the 6th Amendment:
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.
That's 3 out of 10. What the founding fathers fought for 230 years ago, and what has worked for almost that many is being thrown out. You obviously have no objection since you have nothing to hide. I have a large objection. People may not have anything to hide legally, but they may not want anyone and everyone in on their business.
In a previous post I mentioned that there has not been another attack on an airplane since, which I said showed the current methods of not racial profiling works. I also said that they can protect us while respecting the US Constitution. Why don't you show me why they need to violate the US Constitution to protect us? They knew about the 9/11 plot without wiretaps. They got warrants to check on the people associated with this recent plot.
Finally, if you want to believe all "homicide" bombers are "Muslim terrorists" and they should be checked closely, knock yourself out. When the non-Muslim blows up a plane, don't wonder how it happened later.
Pfft. If I'm going into battle, I want a battle hardened weapon that I know I can trust.
There be a reason why there are so many ak47s in the world. I always wanted the chance to fire one - to compare it with the old FN our forces used before they went to the Canadian variant of the mattel toy.The (deserved) poor reputation of early variants of the M-16 haven't been valid since the early '70's. It's a good, battle-tested rifle. Join us into the new Millineum. :gomer:
The Ak is so common cuz it's real cheap to make, being stamped out of sheet metal and all. It is extremely reliable, yes, moreso than the '16, but the M16 has better accuracy, longer range and you can carry lots more ammo.
The AR15 (semi-auto version of the M-16) has become the standard rifle for competitive shooting, replacing the venerable M14.
Keep it clean, no worries.
M16's are for riflemen. AK's are for sprayin and prayin.
FN's rock!
If you want to fire an AK, find an SKS to try. Same round, same action (gas operated piston blowback thingie).
race chica
08-14-06, 12:24 PM
So this is what I ran into on my flight early Friday Morning (AIRTRAN):
I had to wait 2 hrs to check my bag. This was because those who werent planning on checking bags had too and those who were late getting to the airport were being brought to the front of the check in lines so the planes wouldnt be delayed. And from what I could figure out a lot of flights to and from Atlanta (Airtran in based in Atlanta) were cancelled so people had to get new seats, recheck bags etc.
Took less then 1 min to get throught the secruity check point. No lines and the TSA people were very friendly and up beat.
Could bring food on the flight, but no beverages. When we were seated the flight attendents asked if anyone wanted some water before we took off.
On my flight home last night:
Couldnt buy a snowglobe of a mouse and a chunk of cheese that said "aged to perfection" b/c it had water in it. The cashier was nice enought to let me and others know this information. There wasnt a lot of bottled beverages left from the weekend.
All airline employees were subjected to the same searches and rules as everyone else. They werent complaining about it.
Overall there were no huge inconviences for me. I read the reports of what we could and couldnt bring before hand and double checked Friday before i left. Traveling is different then it use to be, people just need to be prepared and double check the rules before leaving the house.
Hey you gals can take your lipstick with you now. :thumbup:
I thought at first they would relax most of this over time but I'm not so sure now. We may have seen the end of carry on drinks I think. I don't normally carry on drinks so no biggie to me.
race chica
08-14-06, 01:07 PM
Just heard on FoxNews that there was an unclaimed package found on a flight from Mexico to LAX. They landed at LAX, took all passangers to customs and have LAPD and FBI on the scene...
Just heard on FoxNews that there was an unclaimed package found on a flight from Mexico to LAX. They landed at LAX, took all passangers to customs and have LAPD and FBI on the scene...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/TRAVEL/08/14/mexico.flight.ap/index.html
-Kevin
Insomniac
08-14-06, 02:56 PM
Just heard on FoxNews that there was an unclaimed package found on a flight from Mexico to LAX. They landed at LAX, took all passangers to customs and have LAPD and FBI on the scene...
No word yet, but considering it's been 3 hours, I don't think it was a bomb or anything like that.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/14/D8JGAHTO0.html
Ok, I'm going to get this thread back on track...
Mr. Stewart-Whyte is a half-brother of Heather Stewart-Whyte, who has modeled for Victoria's Secret.
http://www.hqcelebsite.com/heatherStewartWhyte/images/heatherSW122.jpg
realizing that she was his sister and off-limits outside of Arkansas was too much to bear for him, I guess.
Insomniac
08-14-06, 09:19 PM
Britain is thinking about profiling instead of random checks.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2313135,00.html
so people are going to have "doesn't eat pork" on their drivers licenses now? :gomer:
what's to keep converts from just keeping it secret and attending synogogues & churches for show?
Britain is thinking about profiling instead of random checks.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-2313135,00.html
I hope that works out better for them in the airports than it did in the subway.
TKGAngel
08-15-06, 08:08 AM
so people are going to have "doesn't eat pork" on their drivers licenses now? :gomer:
what's to keep converts from just keeping it secret and attending synogogues & churches for show?
Hate to break it to you Ank, but people who attend synagogues probably would also fall into the "don't eat pork" club.
I hope that works out better for them in the airports than it did in the subway.
Are you referring to the guy shot on the subway? IIRC he was being followed because he was seen leaving an apartment that was being watched. Or did that story change?
From the article:
'The passenger-profiling technique involves selecting people who are behaving suspiciously, have an unusual travel pattern or, most controversially, have a certain ethnic or religious background.'
This seems reasonable to me. Physical characteristics are just one part of what they would be looking at.
Hate to break it to you Ank, but people who attend synagogues probably would also fall into the "don't eat pork" club.
true, but you miss the point :gomer:
TKGAngel
08-15-06, 09:37 AM
true, but you miss the point :gomer:
I got the point, however, the example you used to make the point made your point invalid. :gomer:
Are you referring to the guy shot on the subway? IIRC he was being followed because he was seen leaving an apartment that was being watched. Or did that story change?
From the article:
'The passenger-profiling technique involves selecting people who are behaving suspiciously, have an unusual travel pattern or, most controversially, have a certain ethnic or religious background.'
This seems reasonable to me. Physical characteristics are just one part of what they would be looking at.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story/0,,1825038,00.html
The IPCC was passed police documents relating to the shooting a few days later. I thought that Jean Charles de Menezes' suspicious behaviour was the reason he was shot. Then we were given a bombshell briefing at work. We were told he hadn't vaulted over a ticket barrier and run down an escalator to escape firearms officers, and that he hadn't been wearing a bulky coat that could have concealed explosives. In fact, he had strolled into Stockwell tube wearing a denim jacket, picked up a free newspaper, then made his way down the escalator to catch his train.
you know those brasilian suicide bombers, always strolling around calm & collected in train stations...
Are you referring to the guy shot on the subway? IIRC he was being followed because he was seen leaving an apartment that was being watched. Or did that story change?
He was seen leaving an apartment building where a suspects had an apartment. He didn't really look like any of the suspects. His only crime was looking foreign.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/menezes/story/0,,1825038,00.html
That article doesn't address why they were following him in the first place.
The guardian? :laugh:
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