Vista & other Q's

[Spicoli]

My 60g HD is about to burn up. :yuck: Time to upgrade....

XP Media Center or wait for Vista?

processor? Intel/AMD? #s?

dual core (I'm pretty sure we go with yes on this one)

video card, sound balster X-fi, etc etc.

securty software pkg?

note: Not a gAmer :dork: I mostly listen, burn, rip, collect music, and bother people on line in forums.:tony:

Ya'll helped me out nice with the camera. :cool: got the bag today, no camera yet.

[nrc]

Are you looking to piece-part a system or are you buying something off the shelf? What brand do you have now? Are you happy with it?

[Spicoli]

Are you looking to piece-part a system or are you buying something off the shelf? What brand do you have now? Are you happy with it?

New, please.:D

I have an HP at home and some Dell thing at work. I call Mark, he fixes it. Which in 2 years, I have never broken.

You got something to sell me?:cool:

[racer2c]

I just read a review on Vista and it sounds as if you will need a cutting edge high end machine in order to get the full GUI experience. I'm talking top o' the line video card, CPU ('s) m-board, FSB, RAM etc.

AMD is the best bang for the buck, but AMD really starts to come alive when you match it with a high quality mainboard and RAM as opposed to just popping for a retail version. To me, the PC is all about the mainboard. I have a few older CPU's around here on good quality m-boards that are as fast as my new machines in 'GUI usage'. Throw benchmarks at em and they fall short, but everyday usage is still zero lag. Quality, fast RAM a must too.

[pfc_m_drake]

If it were me and I were buying *today* I would look for something with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor. AMD Athlon X2 systems are probably a better bang for the buck at the moment, but the C2 Duos are mighty nice processors.

Even though you're not a gamer, you're going to want a fully DirectX9 complient video card to take advantage of the 'eye candy' features of Vista. In fact, I believe you need a DX9 video card with 256MB of onboard video memory to fully utilize Vista's Aero-Glass interface.

You can probably order a Dell, Gateway, or HP/Compaq system, but quite frankly I find the desktop systems from all of those to be absolute crap. The Dell XPS line is better, but I think they probably cost a bit more than you're looking for.

You might want to give Velocity Micro a look
http://www.velocitymicro.com/category.php?cid=21

They've got very good tech support, and their Vector PCX system sounds like it might be what you're looking for.

[Spicoli]

If it were me and I were buying *today* I would look for something with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor. AMD Athlon X2 systems are probably a better bang for the buck at the moment, but the C2 Duos are mighty nice processors.

Even though you're not a gamer, you're going to want a fully DirectX9 complient video card to take advantage of the 'eye candy' features of Vista. In fact, I believe you need a DX9 video card with 256MB of onboard video memory to fully utilize Vista's Aero-Glass interface.

You can probably order a Dell, Gateway, or HP/Compaq system, but quite frankly I find the desktop systems from all of those to be absolute crap. The Dell XPS line is better, but I think they probably cost a bit more than you're looking for.

You might want to give Velocity Micro a look
http://www.velocitymicro.com/category.php?cid=21

They've got very good tech support, and their Vector PCX system sounds like it might be what you're looking for.

Interesting proposition. I am told i need Windows Media Center (or somehow i have this in my head) and the PCX does not offer this as an option. your thoughts? (machine looks cool too, and I hate giving the big boys my moolah. )

[Wabbit]

Interesting proposition. I am told i need Windows Media Center (or somehow i have this in my head) and the PCX does not offer this as an option. your thoughts? (machine looks cool too, and I hate giving the big boys my moolah. )

Media Center has a couple cool features, but if you aren't going to be watching TV or doing other types of media sharing, it may not be worth it. You can always wait and go with the higher end product when you upgrade to Vista in the Spring.

[Opposite Lock]

Double Blue Cold Cathode Chassis Light Kit (+$50.00):cool:

Can you get the case painted yellow?

[pfc_m_drake]

Unless you have a specific need for Media Center Edition (a good example would be if you planned on using your computer as a DVR to record TV programs), then I doubt you'd see any advantage over plain XP Home.

I think Media Center Edition also comes with a built-in codec for playing back DVDs (which plain XP does not). However, you can add that functionality with the XP Codec Pack ( http://www.xpcodecpack.com/ )...and it's free as well.

If it were me, I'd go with XP Home, and then upgrade to Vista Home Premium (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/editions/home_premium.mspx) when it's released.

If you're interested, definitely do 2 things:

1) Call Velocity Micro and feel them out (don't take my word for it - tell them what your needs are and see if you like what they have to say).

2) If you're really interested in Media Center Edition, mention that to them as well. Since they're a boutique builder rather than a large OEM, they'll probably be willing accomodate you.

[Spicoli]

Unless you have a specific need for Media Center Edition (a good example would be if you planned on using your computer as a DVR to record TV programs), then I doubt you'd see any advantage over plain XP Home.

I think Media Center Edition also comes with a built-in codec for playing back DVDs (which plain XP does not). However, you can add that functionality with the XP Codec Pack ( http://www.xpcodecpack.com/ )...and it's free as well.

If it were me, I'd go with XP Home, and then upgrade to Vista Home Premium (http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvista/getready/editions/home_premium.mspx) when it's released.

If you're interested, definitely do 2 things:

1) Call Velocity Micro and feel them out (don't take my word for it - tell them what your needs are and see if you like what they have to say).

2) If you're really interested in Media Center Edition, mention that to them as well. Since they're a boutique builder rather than a large OEM, they'll probably be willing accomodate you.

thanks. i have a DVR, so I suppose no need for media center. i just wanna take movies of the kids and me poopin on fTG's lawn.......and all my music stuff. sounds like i don;t need to record TV.

vista lloks cool, doesn't it?

did you buy from Velocity? Your experience good?


(And Fry's sucks wang. BIGGIE prollems wit them last week. they SUCK Suck suck...)

and THANKS! :)

[Spicoli]

Double Blue Cold Cathode Chassis Light Kit (+$50.00):cool:

Can you get the case painted yellow?

U think? :saywhat:


:rofl:

[SteveH]

^ ypcdude :p :rofl:

http://www.subzeropcs.com/sitebuilder/images/coolermaster_wavemaster_yellow_pc_case_view_2-270x210.jpg

[Joelski]

**Advice Alert!**

I'm running Vista Ultimate on a 3 year-old (3 Ghz P4) machine. With 1.5 Gb of RAM and a 128 Mb vid card I'm getting a 4.5 out of 5 on the vista experience rating. It is not necessary to mortgage the house to run Vista, and the performance will only go up from this build. Sys reqs are pretty much locked down and you should be fine with decent current stuff (no off-brand, chinese crap). Vista is cutting off a lot of backward compatibility in order to work better with future improvements. Lots of people with older computers and junk will likely bitch that it doesn't work/crashes/won't install on their stuff, but that's the price of progress.

[nrc]

New, please.:D

I have an HP at home and some Dell thing at work. I call Mark, he fixes it. Which in 2 years, I have never broken.

You got something to sell me?:cool:

Nope just trying to get a feel for what you're looking for. I build my own, so I don't have much experience with off the shelf desktops.

Pieces:
3Ghz Pentium D Core Duo or better
Good motherboard (recommend ASUS or Abit)
2G memory
Nvidia GeForce 7600 (PCX)
250G SATA Drive
DVD burner
Make sure it has Firewire if your camera supports it.
Most good motherboards have decent sound onboard these days.
Make sure the motherboard has room for more memory and will accept a faster processor if you need it later on.
Make sure it's got a big power supply in it. Probably 400W is minimum, 500W good.
Make sure the fans don't sound like a turboprop taking off.

Plus one of these 'cos you know you wanna. :gomer:
http://www.thrustmaster.com/eng/images/products/big/pcwirdualtrigger.gif

[racermike]

Here is the system I am building right now, getting ready for Vista (Will install Vista beta until it is in full release ... I am getting 5 free copies of Vista


Case : Lian-Li PC60 APLUS II Silver Aluminum Case (already bought)
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/ProductImageCompressAll125/11-112-115-02.jpg

Power Supply : Enermax EG851AX 660W Power Supply (already bought)
Mobo : Asus P5NSLI NVIDIA Socket 775 (waiting for FedEx)
CPU : Intel C2D E6300 1.86Ghz (already bought)
CPU Cooling : Need to buy .. Looking at Thermaltake Heat Sink
Memory : Kingston HyperX 1Gb DDR SDRAM 675(2 x 1gb Chips) (already bought)
Sound : Need to buy .. Looking at Creative SB x-Fi Platinum
Video : PNY VCG7600 GeForce 7600 256mb PCI-E (need to shop for)
Hard Drive : (2 drives) Maxtor DiamondMax 10 160Gb (already bought)
UPS Backup : Need to buy .. Looking at APC Power/Backup
Keyboard : Need to buy .. basic Logitech 104k keyboard
Mouse : Logitech G5 Laser (already bought)
Monitor : Viewsonic 19" CRT (will eventually get 2 19" LCD's for new system)

PC Software : Windows Vista Beta (until full release), Norton Systemworks 2006 (Anti-Virus, Security), SpyBot, SpySweeper, Microsoft Defender.

Essential Software : MS Office 2003, Autocad 2006, Nero Burning Rom, Azureus (and looking forward to Unreal Tournament 2007)

My current P4 gamer machine, will now be my backup/everyday PC, and this new build will be my music/gaming rig.

[Cam]

My 60g HD is about to burn up. :yuck: Time to upgrade....

XP Media Center or wait for Vista?

processor? Intel/AMD? #s?

dual core (I'm pretty sure we go with yes on this one)

video card, sound balster X-fi, etc etc.

securty software pkg?

note: Not a gAmer :dork: I mostly listen, burn, rip, collect music, and bother people on line in forums.:tony:

Ya'll helped me out nice with the camera. :cool: got the bag today, no camera yet.

Get a Mac! :gomer:

[Spicoli]

Get a Mac! :gomer:

Get an RV. :tony:

:rofl:

[dando]

Get a Mac! :gomer:

Damn, you beat me to it, Cam.

Spickly, don't dismiss a Mac for the needs you listed. Macs are perfect for surfing, photos, movies, burning and ripping.

-Kevin

[racer2c]

http://images.dailytech.com/nimage/2426_large_imac.jpg

[dando]

^^^ Or what I like to do to $ave some jack, is visit the Apple Outlet to buy a refurb:


http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/6314002/wo/Qp384Wz4ArfH2P3oa8f1nMSjnre/1.0.0.19.1.0.8.7.1.0.1.1

Refurbs tend to have better quality #s OOTB than new systems.

-Kevin

[racermike]

I do have a new job that involves quite a bit of travel, and might just finance a new Powerbook.

[oddlycalm]

Get a Mac! :gomer: I did get an iMac and I love it. :thumbup: Have a PC in the next room for work because I need it for the company database to on MS SQL.

I roll my own but refer those that don't to http://www.gamepc.com/ Chris Connolly also does excellant technical reviews there http://www.gamepc.com/labs/index.asp

oc

[Spicoli]

Damn, you beat me to it, Cam.

Spickly, don't dismiss a Mac for the needs you listed. Macs are perfect for surfing, photos, movies, burning and ripping.

-Kevin

but I don;t speak French.

[Cam]

but I don;t speak French. :laugh: :laugh:

:gomer: :shakehead

[pfc_m_drake]

thanks. i have a DVR, so I suppose no need for media center. i just wanna take movies of the kids and me poopin on fTG's lawn.......and all my music stuff. sounds like i don;t need to record TV.

vista lloks cool, doesn't it?

did you buy from Velocity? Your experience good?


(And Fry's sucks wang. BIGGIE prollems wit them last week. they SUCK Suck suck...)

and THANKS! :)
I personally have not purchased from Velocity (I actually build my own systems from scratch).

Here's a page from another website that I read:

http://consumer.hardocp.com/reviews.html?cat=MjUsRGVza3RvcCBDb21wdXRlcnMsaGNvb nN1bWVyLCwsMSww

On that page (and the following pages) you'll find links to their reviews of about 30 or so systems over the last year. They have reviewed systems from all the large builders (Dell, Gateway, etc.) as well as the smaller independent builders (Velocity Micro, Vicious PC, Maingear, etc).

Basically they covertly purchase a system from the OEM/Builder, evaluate it for usability, torture test it, then call tech support with any problems (or call and 'fake' some problems if they didn't experience any) and evaluate them as well.

The reason I like Velocity is because they have systems built from high quality parts, but yet they keep their prices reasonable. Also, they have their own dedicated in-house US-based tech support. Finally, I think you may see Velocity become a larger player in the marketplace, as they have begun to sell their systems in BestBuy retail stores (which you may find either good or bad).

No matter which way you're interested in going, I think you may find the above page helpful, because it does have reviews from all the major players - if you're in a hurry, you can jump right to the conclusion page in the reviews, because they do a nice job summarizing the overall experience.

[nrc]

Got it today. Nice camera. Forgot to tell me it didn;t come with a memory card or cassettes.

http://www.freewebby.com/angry-smilies/grrr.gif

By the way, when you buy this system, unless specifically order them, it will not come with:

CDs
DVDs
Diskettes (what?)
Firewire cables
USB cables
A mouse
A Display
A chair
A Desk
A printer
Paper your printer
Batteries for your smoke detector
Beer

[Spicoli]

By the way, when you buy this system, unless specifically order them, it will not come with:

CDs
DVDs
Diskettes (what?)
Firewire cables
USB cables
A mouse
A Display
A chair
A Desk
A printer
Paper your printer
Batteries for your smoke detector
Beer

:rofl:

[Kiwifan]

Will it come with a new Keyboard? One that we can understand? :tony:

Just joking Spicoli, just joking. :D

Good luck with the new setup mate.

Rusty.

[chop456]

By the way, when you buy this system, unless specifically order them, it will not come with:

Batteries for your smoke detector


This is good news for some people I know.

[/insidejoke]

[Joelski]

This is good news for some people I know.

[/insidejoke]

*chirp*

:D

[Spicoli]

If it were me and I were buying *today* I would look for something with an Intel Core 2 Duo processor. AMD Athlon X2 systems are probably a better bang for the buck at the moment, but the C2 Duos are mighty nice processors.

Even though you're not a gamer, you're going to want a fully DirectX9 complient video card to take advantage of the 'eye candy' features of Vista. In fact, I believe you need a DX9 video card with 256MB of onboard video memory to fully utilize Vista's Aero-Glass interface.

You can probably order a Dell, Gateway, or HP/Compaq system, but quite frankly I find the desktop systems from all of those to be absolute crap. The Dell XPS line is better, but I think they probably cost a bit more than you're looking for.

You might want to give Velocity Micro a look
http://www.velocitymicro.com/category.php?cid=21

They've got very good tech support, and their Vector PCX system sounds like it might be what you're looking for.

OK - time to go after this one. After readin another review on the Dell XPS's - from the site you rec'd) I think i'm NOT going to Dell. Then I read more about Velocity Micro - and it appears now you can go buy one off the shelf at Best Buy?! Cool, no waiting 3 weeks for shipping.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7942499&st=velocity+micro&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1152227796440

I think this E6400 would work? nrc, pfc m drake, etc? any ideas?

thanks, and here's a kitty in a case for your trubbles. :)

http://www.therealmartha.com/MuchMisc/cat_carrier_beer_case1.JPG

[racer2c]

OK - time to go after this one. After readin another review on the Dell XPS's - from the site you rec'd) I think i'm NOT going to Dell. Then I read more about Velocity Micro - and it appears now you can go buy one off the shelf at Best Buy?! Cool, no waiting 3 weeks for shipping.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7942499&st=velocity+micro&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1152227796440

I think this E6400 would work? nrc, pfc m drake, etc? any ideas?

thanks, and here's a kitty in a case for your trubbles. :)

http://www.therealmartha.com/MuchMisc/cat_carrier_beer_case1.JPG

What do you need a floppy drive for?:gomer:

No built in wireless? Boo. Get a laptop. Trust me, it will play your favorite ATARI classics just fine and you can sit in Starbucks and look cool.:tony:

[WickerBill]

My late suggestions:

1. Choose more hard drive than you think you could possibly use, then add 100gb
2. Dual 17" flat panels >>> single 20" flat panel
3. You *will* want Vista if you go the PC route instead of Mac. Do not believe the haters who tell you you will need Dept. of Defense-class hardware to use the features of the GUI. Horsepoop; I can see 95% of it - in the BETA - on a VMware virtual machine, which uses a junk video card driver.
4. However, that doesn't mean you need to wait... get XP and just plan to spend a buck fitty in a couple months to put Vista on it.
5. AMD has awoken the slumbering giant -- put your eggs in the Intel basket. If you own AMD stock, SELL SELL SELL. Their roadmap is poor on the server side, and that is where money is made. They will always have a desktop niche, but Intel is burying them on the server side; price, performance, cooling, cores (4 cores by EOY, a good five months before AMD on servers, oh and one month after AMD goes quad on servers Intel plans to drop six and eight core server chips). Okay, back to the point, the Core 2 Duo is superior to anything AMD is putting out. Significantly.

I think I'm done.

[dando]

What do you need a floppy drive for?:gomer:


He musta been watching the movie Wargames, and figgered he needed one. :gomer:

That thing come with a free acoustic coupler, Spickly? :tony: Seriously, that'll play your MP3s for ya, and should be able to handle video editing well enough (Plus it comes with Nero). 320 GB should be enough for now. 500GB drives are becoming widely available just now. Unless yer ripping a bunch of DVDs and storing other video, you won't need more until later. $1300 seems steep w/o a monitor. :\

-Kevin

[Spicoli]

well **** that then. :p

WTF do I buy?

:commissionschecktomorrow:

[Joelski]

http://phonographia.com/SourceTTHF_Index/Farmer%20See%20n%20Say%20300.jpg

[Cam]

well **** that then. :p

WTF do I buy?

:commissionschecktomorrow:

Don't listen the cranky Boss Emeritus. He and his Wintel bias are well documented. :D

I've been playing with Vista myself for the past few days, and really don't see WTF it offers over XP other than blatant eyecandy and more pesky popups from the O/S asking "Are you sure" when I am absolutely positive I pushed the button that said "whatever" of my own sane choice and will. It's almost as annoying as Clippy!

Microsoft hardly even hides the fact that their whole O/S strategy is moving in Vista too. Gone is the emphasis on business and Apps, and when you fire it up Windows Live is shoved right under your nose, emphasising that communication and social networking is what Vista is all about. :rolleyes:

MySpace on your desktop! Yep thats what we need! :D

[nrc]

well **** that then. :p

WTF do I buy?

:commissionschecktomorrow:

What you linked looks good. WB sez so too, only in geek. :thumbup:

[nrc]

Don't listen the cranky Boss Emeritus. He and his Wintel bias are well documented. :D Kind of hard to argue against the Intel part right now. Not that long ago Intel was really nowhere but the multi-core chips have really turned things around for them.

[dando]

Kind of hard to argue against the Intel part right now. Not that long ago Intel was really nowhere but the multi-core chips have really turned things around for them.

Macs have Intel chips now, so there is no argument against Intel @ this point.

-Kevin

[WickerBill]

I challenge Cam to find somewhere in my post that I say "don't buy a Mac"... I believe what I said was "You *will* want Vista if you go the PC route.

In fact, if you really plan to spend time doing good video editing, I'd suggest a Mac. If you plan to load apps, have kids with PC-specific labs at school, etc., you'd be best to go with what 90% of the world uses... Windows.

WB (who does his video editing on a Mac Mini)

[pfc_m_drake]

OK - time to go after this one. After readin another review on the Dell XPS's - from the site you rec'd) I think i'm NOT going to Dell. Then I read more about Velocity Micro - and it appears now you can go buy one off the shelf at Best Buy?! Cool, no waiting 3 weeks for shipping.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7942499&st=velocity+micro&lp=1&type=product&cp=1&id=1152227796440

I think this E6400 would work? nrc, pfc m drake, etc? any ideas?

It's a fantastic system. Truthfully, it's probably more than you need, but it will serve you well into the future.

*If* they offer it, a model with an E6300 processor with a 7300GT graphics card (since you don't game) would be super - because it will meet all your needs and save you ~$200 from what you have linked here.

That said, as nrc mentioned, what you have there is a fine system.

And yes, VM has recently gone retail in Best Buy, which I think is a big plus for them.

And for those of you hating on floppy drives, try and install Windows XP onto a system with either a SCSI hard drive or RAID array as the primary boot drive without one. I dare you :eek: :eek:

[Cam]

I challenge Cam to find somewhere in my post that I say "don't buy a Mac"... I believe what I said was "You *will* want Vista if you go the PC route.


Actually it was more of an elbow jab at your pro Intel/anti AMD rant. :p

[WickerBill]

You're nuts, Cam... I don't have anything against AMD at aAMD IS THE SPAWN OF THE DEVIL IF YOU BUY AN AMD PROCESSOR YOU ARE AIDING AND COMFORTING TERRORll. They're great.

[TravelGal]

Will it come with a new Keyboard? One that we can understand? :tony:

Just joking Spicoli, just joking. :D

Good luck with the new setup mate.

Rusty.

No joke, Rusty. Today I'm struggling through learning a second new keyboard in one week. Why do they think it's cute to change the location of the ancillary keys? Grrrrrr.

But, thanks Spikly for a timely topic. While visiting the PC Club, I was itiching to buy another 'puter.

[Spicoli]

u guyz rawak!

:geekforum:



:tony:


Climber?

[Kiwifan]

No joke, Rusty. Today I'm struggling through learning a second new keyboard in one week. Why do they think it's cute to change the location of the ancillary keys? Grrrrrr.


I know what you mean Gal, I have one of the spread-best-for-typing ones at home and a standard one here at work. I was more thinking of one that made sense (for me) of "Spicoli Talk" Sometimes I have no idea what he is on about,,,, ;) Just joking S, we love ya!

Rusty.

[pfc_m_drake]

You're nuts, Cam... I don't have anything against AMD at aAMD IS THE SPAWN OF THE DEVIL IF YOU BUY AN AMD PROCESSOR YOU ARE AIDING AND COMFORTING TERRORll. They're great.

I hate to get involved in the AMD vs Intel war, because it's more vicious than even the CC vs IRL war, but I will say a few things:

1) There's no denying that the Athlon64/Opteron line of processors forced a fundamental change in philosophy at Intel. Intel's Netburst architecture was all about megahertz mania (didn't they claim that it would scale to 6 GHz?). Indeed, the BTX chassis form factor was conceived for the sole purpose of bringing extra cooling to the Netburst CPU. Had AMD not brought the 'more work per clock cycle' philosophy to the table, I can't imagine what a stock Intel heatsink/fan would look like at this point.

2) Intel (a *much* larger company than AMD) should be ashamed that lagged behind for so long.

With that said, Core2 is a real winner for Intel. 80 core (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=302) CPUs in 5 years sounds great too. Personally I love the competition between AMD and Intel because it does nothing but benefit the consumer.

Eh...maybe I just like cheering for the underdog too much.

[WickerBill]

Dead on, pfc. No different, really, than watching prices drop and service rise at any retail outlet once they are no longer the only shop in town, right?

Once HP and IBM started shipping AMD-based servers and Intel's market share eroded, they took notice. Bravo, competition.

[Insomniac]

I hate to get involved in the AMD vs Intel war, because it's more vicious than even the CC vs IRL war, but I will say a few things:

1) There's no denying that the Athlon64/Opteron line of processors forced a fundamental change in philosophy at Intel. Intel's Netburst architecture was all about megahertz mania (didn't they claim that it would scale to 6 GHz?). Indeed, the BTX chassis form factor was conceived for the sole purpose of bringing extra cooling to the Netburst CPU. Had AMD not brought the 'more work per clock cycle' philosophy to the table, I can't imagine what a stock Intel heatsink/fan would look like at this point.

2) Intel (a *much* larger company than AMD) should be ashamed that lagged behind for so long.

With that said, Core2 is a real winner for Intel. 80 core (http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=302) CPUs in 5 years sounds great too. Personally I love the competition between AMD and Intel because it does nothing but benefit the consumer.

Eh...maybe I just like cheering for the underdog too much.

I agree with you for the most part. And it absolutely benefits the consumer to have AMD and Intel competitive.

Net Burst could've scaled to 6 GHz without a problem on a 45nm process. Intel put their chips in the MHz basket and AMD went for IPC. They are two different paths, but both result in better performance. By the time Intel realized the MHz path was not the prudent one, they had to work to change their strategy. This can't be done overnight. They cancelled a chip line and began to phase their Israel work (Pentium M) to the desktop. They also had to de-emphasize clock speed and use model numbers (like AMD) on their Pentium D chips so people wouldn't realize their chips just slowed down by 1+ GHz.

Intel chose the wrong path, but they have some of the best engineers in the world and have fixed their startegy to better align with what people/industry want from CPU.

BTW--WB, Intel still has a ways to go in the Server market to get anyhwhere close to where they were. I personally believe the damage is done (AMD went from 0% to ~30% market share in 3 years) and Intel will now be sharing the server market space with AMD for many years to come. AMD also still destroys Intel in x86 servers with more than 2 sockets. Intel needs to stay creative to get back the 4-socket (and more) performance until they can get a new FSB architecture in place.

[WickerBill]

Insomniac... keep your eyes peeled on the server space. :)

[Insomniac]

Ohh, and on topic. Spicoli, don't waste a lot of money on a video card since you don't want to game. The rest of the stuff you need is pretty standard. What I tell friends is 1. Decide what you want to use your computer for and 2. Set a budget and spend it all. You have to keep in mind, new stuff comes out all the time and you can almost always spend more if you wanted. You need some criteria. If you have no limit, then configure the most expensive PC (or Mac) you can find and it'll do as good as it can. :)

[Insomniac]

Insomniac... keep your eyes peeled on the server space. :)

I know what Intel is up to, I pay attention and know some people. ;)

[Cam]

Insomniac... keep your eyes peeled on the server space. :)

So how much of your retirement is tied to the success of Intel's stock performance? ;)

[Turn7]

Once HP and IBM started shipping AMD-based servers and Intel's market share eroded, they took notice. Bravo, competition.

Folks in the engineering trench wanted it to happen and the marketing/managment was dead set against it. It was a big battle to get them off the Intel teet.

[Insomniac]

Folks in the engineering trench wanted it to happen and the marketing/managment was dead set against it. It was a big battle to get them off the Intel teet.

That's why engineers don't run the company. :)

[WickerBill]

Folks in the engineering trench wanted it to happen and the marketing/managment was dead set against it. It was a big battle to get them off the Intel teet.

Which is why.... oh nevermind. heh.

[Turn7]

That's why engineers don't run the company. :)

Why do you think that it would have beena good thing to not have AMD processors in servers?

[oddlycalm]

Intel (a *much* larger company than AMD) should be ashamed that lagged behind for so long. I'm sure that the 10% of their workforce (including 1500 of my neighbors) will agree at they hit the unemployment lines and submit their job applications over at AMD. :shakehead

Any idiot could see that the Pentium M was the way to go simply based on performance vs energy use, but management stubbornly stuck with the Netburst space heaters for whatever reason. The 820 chipset fiasco should have told management they needed to make some fundamental changes, as should the cooling requirements of the first gen 1Ghz P3's, but it took years more and cost the stockholders and the employees dearly before rational thought returned. For this they probably got bonuses and stock options....

I'm considering building a distributed air conditioning system with a large number of the surplus 120mm heat pipe chip coolers that are becoming available....:gomer:

oc

[Insomniac]

Why do you think that it would have beena good thing to not have AMD processors in servers?

Performance wise, AMD would be better. $$$ wise, I bet Intel was better. Management's job is to make money for shareholders.

[Insomniac]

I'm sure that the 10% of their workforce (including 1500 of my neighbors) will agree at they hit the unemployment lines and submit their job applications over at AMD. :shakehead

Any idiot could see that the Pentium M was the way to go simply based on performance vs energy use, but management stubbornly stuck with the Netburst space heaters for whatever reason. The 820 chipset fiasco should have told management they needed to make some fundamental changes, as should the cooling requirements of the first gen 1Ghz P3's, but it took years more and cost the stockholders and the employees dearly before rational thought returned. For this they probably got bonuses and stock options....

I'm considering building a distributed air conditioning system with a large number of the surplus 120mm heat pipe chip coolers that are becoming available....:gomer:

oc

This is hindsight now looking back at the Pentium M. The goal on notebooks and the Israel design team was a powerful (for notebooks) and energy efficient processor. They built that from the ground up for that sole purpose. Stack that up against a Pentium 4 that was designed solely for performance and speed, and it gets destroyed.

The 820 chipset problems happened with RAMBUS and the Pentium III well before the Pentium 4 was announced. At that time, the Pentium III was still better than the AMD K6-2/3 and they were trying to force the industry down the RAMBUS memroy path. They thought they could get people to switch, but price (and then later the glitch and recall) proved that they were not stronger than memory pricing. They abandoned RAMBUS on the desktop pretty fast after that.

The designs for NetBurst were started a long time before it was released. Intel believed that was the right path, and your belief that "any idiot" knew that is laughable. Intel is not filled with people who are dumber than idiots. They had 2 choices, try to increase IPC (as AMD chose) or reduce IPC and speed up the CPU. Intel will be reaping the rewards of that decision now. They have at least a 12 month manufacturing advantage over AMD now. During that time, they saw their wrong decision and began to incorporate the Israel design teams work. (The Pentium M itself was still weak for desktop computing.) A CPU isn't designed and taped out overnight. It took AMD a very long time to bring the fight to Intel. AMD could not follow Intel down the speed path and instead invested in making the chip more efficient and has now reaped the rewards. If Intel turned out to be right, AMD would be in a lot more trouble now compared to the "trouble" Intel is in now.

While layoffs suck, Intel isn't doing it because of thier missteps, they're doing it to streamline their business. They also did not just layoff engineers, they also laid off management. They're doing what they need to for their shareholders. It has also been a very, very long time since they had a quarter in the red. That's what they are paid to do. (I agree executive pay is out of whack, but it's that way almost everywhere now.)

[WickerBill]

It took AMD a very long time to bring the fight to Intel.

Which is why it's astonishing to me that Intel has basically been able to do an about-face in 18 months and take over again. A year ago I wouldn't have dreamed the Clovertown chip (coming out in January) would be 18-22% ahead of AMD; Intel just looked lost.

[Insomniac]

Which is why it's astonishing to me that Intel has basically been able to do an about-face in 18 months and take over again. A year ago I wouldn't have dreamed the Clovertown chip (coming out in January) would be 18-22% ahead of AMD; Intel just looked lost.

I think it was longer than 18 months. They cancelled Tejas in Summer 2004. Surely, by then they had already started work on the Core architecture. Even though they called the first dual core notebook chip Core (Duo), it was really more of a Pentium M derivative than Core 2 which the server and recently released notebook CPUs are derived from. And let's not forget, they're still in this transition. Pentium D and the old Xeon still dominates their shipments. They have nothing Core based in the 4 way socket and up market yet either. They're still getting there, but I think they caught AMD a little by surprise. AMD is lining up the K8L, which should bring Quad Core and L3 cache (although I don't know how much that will help since AMD has the integrated memory controller). As I said before, this is great for the consumer!

[Joelski]

http://desunited.no.sapo.pt/woody.jpg


:rofl:

[racer2c]

http://www.thunderboxpc.com/images/gallery/liquid/exf3b.jpg

Ahh, cool water.:)

I'm still trying to figure out why Vista's GUI (whatever it's called) needs latest and greatest 1gb onboard DDR3 RAM, per pixal shading etc video card just for transparent buttons. My first 3D card (16mb VooDoo) could do transparency.
Optimize your code M$!.:irked:

[Joelski]

http://www.thunderboxpc.com/images/gallery/liquid/exf3b.jpg

Ahh, cool water.:)

I'm still trying to figure out why Vista's GUI (whatever it's called) needs latest and greatest 1gb onboard DDR3 RAM, per pixal shading etc video card just for transparent buttons. My first 3D card (16mb VooDoo) could do transparency.
Optimize your code M$!.:irked:

It doesn't. I'm running the latest post RC-1 build and all my games and crap at the highest sttings with a Vista experience rating of 4.1 on a 128 MB Radeon 9800. Check for leaks, bro...

[oddlycalm]

The designs for NetBurst were started a long time before it was released. Intel believed that was the right path, and your belief that "any idiot" knew that is laughable. Let me rephrase and say people less arrogant. Intel's material science people knew they faced a thermal brick wall right from the start. It looked a lot like nobody was listening to them from where I sit.

While I appreciate you know chapter and verse on the history, the reason that I mentioned the 820/RAMBUS and gigahertz P3 (pre-Tualatin) thermal issues is that Intel management was making what were poor decisions for purely commercial reasons.

As far as the Pentium M (Banias & Dothan) being weak compared to the P4 room heaters, in the real word the small difference was clear when the first desktop board for the Dothan shipped during the spring of 2004, and management must have known well before that. If there had been a decent chipset sold for the Pentium M my take is that P4 sales would have died off quickly by the summer of 2004 and I said as much then, as did others. No hindsight involved. Same with RAMBUS. Many of us could see that coming well before it arrived and it was everything and less than we anticipated.

oc

[Tifosi24]

I have been reading this thread a little bit here and there. I still have three months before I graduate, but I am definately in the market for a new desktop. I have a nice laptop, but the old desktop, now used by my fiancee, is pushing 5.5 years old. Strangely enough, it has the RAMBUS that everyone is talking about and I have had no trouble with it, except of course the outrageous upgrade costs. That point aside, I like playing games on my rig, but I am most certainly not a gamer. In terms of games, I will just want something that can run rFactor and Richard Burns Rally well, and I will be a happy man. Ideally, I will want a high end home office rig, because I will be definately be running AutoCAD, STATA, and perhaps Mathematica. Advice on the video card is where I need help, because regardless of what I do, I think I am going to go with 4gig of RAM and 300-500gig of harddisk space. Thanks much folks.

[WickerBill]

Are you in the market NOW, or in 3 months when you graduate? Cause things definitely change that fast....

[Tifosi24]

Are you in the market NOW, or in 3 months when you graduate? Cause things definitely change that fast....

In three months, or when I get a job, so hopefully in three months.

[Spicoli]

dooders & doodettes:

I went to best buy today to check out the baby Velocity Micro. :saywhat:


fkna - what a cool piece of machinery :cool:

the dork/geek set was so impressed I even knew what it was (thanks to pfmcmcdrake dooder :thumbup: )

they cracked it open, and they said how did you even know about it?

I said i got geek bros who do the racing thing.

like indycars?

I just went off.

super geek/manager dooder:

gateway: nascar

compaq: busch

emachines: irl.

velocity: champcars!


:he gets it:

should be up there in the morning to make the purchase

:drinking now:

[nissan gtp]

*deleted*nevermind*

drink up

[Spicoli]

*deleted*nevermind*

drink up

you don;t drink. :p

[Cam]

gateway: nascar


I never in a million years thought I would buy a Gateway. I bought a Gateway Laptop last week. Kicks ARSE! 64 bits rawks! :cool:

[nissan gtp]

you don;t drink. :p

sure :rofl:

[Insomniac]

I have been reading this thread a little bit here and there. I still have three months before I graduate, but I am definately in the market for a new desktop. I have a nice laptop, but the old desktop, now used by my fiancee, is pushing 5.5 years old. Strangely enough, it has the RAMBUS that everyone is talking about and I have had no trouble with it, except of course the outrageous upgrade costs. That point aside, I like playing games on my rig, but I am most certainly not a gamer. In terms of games, I will just want something that can run rFactor and Richard Burns Rally well, and I will be a happy man. Ideally, I will want a high end home office rig, because I will be definately be running AutoCAD, STATA, and perhaps Mathematica. Advice on the video card is where I need help, because regardless of what I do, I think I am going to go with 4gig of RAM and 300-500gig of harddisk space. Thanks much folks.

If you'll be doing a lot of 3D rendering, it would seem like if you don't buy a high end card 350-400+ that you may have a significant bottleneck. I would expect that for most people, the CPU, amount of RAM and video card would all fall in a similar range. So, if you're one who would buy the fastest CPU and lots of RAM because you want top performance, you're going to buy one or two $400 video cards. If you buy a processor that has good value, you'll probably get a $200-250 video card. If you buy a CPU near the bottom, you'll use onboard video or a less than $100 video card. (I am ignoring people who overclock, although, I bet the same holds true. There are "cheap" overclockers who want the most bang for the buck who buy middle range stuff to get top shelf performance and other overclockers who want the fastest rig possible who buy the top stuff and push it as far as possible.)

[pfc_m_drake]

@Spicoli - Congratulations on your purchase. We can discuss this a little bit more in a day or two (I'm too tired at the moment :( ) but one of the benefits of VM is that they use standard parts. For example, I bet that your memory modules are made by Corsair, which carry a lifetime warranty from Corsair. That means, even after your warranty from VM expires, if one of your memory modules fails, Corsair will replace it for you directly from them free of charge. Some of the other components will have a similar arrangement with their respective OEMs - we can discuss later.

@Insomniac - I would have liked to seen the Northwood core on 65nm. The Northwoods were great actually (IMO). Heck, I have a 3.0c in one of my systems that continues to impress me to this very day. As you point out, the switch from Rambus to regular DDR memory helped a ton too.

@racer2c - Water is for wusses. Phase change FTW!
http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/7697/phase1cx3.jpg
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/1034/phase2zd8.jpg

For those of you wondering, yes, that is a minus sign in front of the 50 degrees C.

Although I admit that I have done water too!
http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7221/water1rv3.jpg

[Insomniac]

Let me rephrase and say people less arrogant. Intel's material science people knew they faced a thermal brick wall right from the start. It looked a lot like nobody was listening to them from where I sit.

While I appreciate you know chapter and verse on the history, the reason that I mentioned the 820/RAMBUS and gigahertz P3 (pre-Tualatin) thermal issues is that Intel management was making what were poor decisions for purely commercial reasons.

As far as the Pentium M (Banias & Dothan) being weak compared to the P4 room heaters, in the real word the small difference was clear when the first desktop board for the Dothan shipped during the spring of 2004, and management must have known well before that. If there had been a decent chipset sold for the Pentium M my take is that P4 sales would have died off quickly by the summer of 2004 and I said as much then, as did others. No hindsight involved. Same with RAMBUS. Many of us could see that coming well before it arrived and it was everything and less than we anticipated.

oc

I think they always knew about thermal issues. You have them on every process. AMD forced them to scale NetBurst much faster than they planned IMO. They either understimated AMD's abiity, or expected them to follow Intel down the same path. IIRC, NetBurst was supposed to last 10 years, and obviously didn't come close.

No doubt RAMBUS was a decison made for their bottom line. I may be mistaken, but I thought it also performed better than the PC100/133 RAM it was initially competing with.

Also, at that time, the AMD Athlon ran hotter than the P3 and P4 and it was AMD that was being criticized for having space heaters. Things started to turn in Mid-2003 when Intel was getting to the EOL of Northwood. I'd guess it was shortly after that they realized MHz (and longer pipelines) weren't going to work anymore.

The Pentium M always had a weak FPU compared to the P4. I can't see how it could be better, unless you meant at the same clock speed. I went and checked this out, and found that the Pentium M in the end di give the P4 a run for its money. http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/05/25/dothan_over_netburst/index.html

Finally, what you say is true. When RAMBUS came out, you could see it was as bad idea. After AMD got closer to Intel you could see it was a bad idea. I'm sure Intel saw it before that. The problem is they began working on those products years before they came out and they couldn't just sit on it and release something else. They did what they could until they could get the right product out.

[Insomniac]

@Spicoli - Congratulations on your purchase. We can discuss this a little bit more in a day or two (I'm too tired at the moment :( ) but one of the benefits of VM is that they use standard parts. For example, I bet that your memory modules are made by Corsair, which carry a lifetime warranty from Corsair. That means, even after your warranty from VM expires, if one of your memory modules fails, Corsair will replace it for you directly from them free of charge. Some of the other components will have a similar arrangement with their respective OEMs - we can discuss later.

@Insomniac - I would have liked to seen the Northwood core on 65nm. The Northwoods were great actually (IMO). Heck, I have a 3.0c in one of my systems that continues to impress me to this very day. As you point out, the switch from Rambus to regular DDR memory helped a ton too.

@racer2c - Water is for wusses. Phase change FTW!

For those of you wondering, yes, that is a minus sign in front of the 50 degrees C.

Although I admit that I have done water too!


Nothing like some refridgeration to keep the CPU cool. You may want to check on the warranty, sometimes the OEM parts, while made by companies that offer lifetime ones may have part numbers that lets them know to refer you to the manufacturer of your PC for warranty related inquiries.

I think the Northwood was the best of the P4 line. Prescott made a mess of it, but was needed for the MHz. In the end, it led us to Core 2, which is just an awesome CPU.

[Spicoli]

:thumbup:


:tony:

[WickerBill]

Tifosi,

Unless you are a balls-to-the-wall Autocadder, I can't imagine you'll be disappointed with the daily performance of a $200ish video card. They're significantly faster than anything you could get even when AC 2006 came out (yes, they're up to AC 2007 now). However, if you are the type who will sit there waiting for a rendering thinking "this could have been done 12 seconds ago", then you should consider the latest and greatest. Check the AC 2007 hardware compatibility list:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/hc?status=1&os=WinXP&os=Win2K&siteID=123112&catID=6711614&id=6711853&linkID=2475161&is_results=1


Almost anything you get on that AC 2007 list will do everything else you mentioned juuuust fine.

[Cam]

Almost anything you get on that AC 2007 list will do everything else you mentioned juuuust fine.

Whatever you do, DO NOT install AC2007! It is so buggy ADesk are just willing it to go away. Just opening an DWG in 2007 will render it unreadable in any previous version. :yuck:

[Tifosi24]

Tifosi,

Unless you are a balls-to-the-wall Autocadder, I can't imagine you'll be disappointed with the daily performance of a $200ish video card. They're significantly faster than anything you could get even when AC 2006 came out (yes, they're up to AC 2007 now). However, if you are the type who will sit there waiting for a rendering thinking "this could have been done 12 seconds ago", then you should consider the latest and greatest. Check the AC 2007 hardware compatibility list:

http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/servlet/hc?status=1&os=WinXP&os=Win2K&siteID=123112&catID=6711614&id=6711853&linkID=2475161&is_results=1


Almost anything you get on that AC 2007 list will do everything else you mentioned juuuust fine.

Well, I pretty much just tool around in AutoCAD designing race tracks from time to time, so that $200 video card sounds like a good option. The large amount of RAM I want should be able to handle anything I will do in STATA since there is no rendering involved.

[pfc_m_drake]

:thumbup:


:tony:
I did some checking. Definitely save your reciept, because as I suspected VM uses standard retail parts:

http://www.velocitymicro.com/retail_vs_oem.php

What that means is that your memory (probably Corsair) carries a lifetime warranty from Corsair.

I suspect your video card is made by either BFG, eVGA, or XFX, in which case it will carry a lifetime warranty from those manufacturers.

I suspect your hard drive is a Seagate Barracuda, which carries a 5 year warranty from Seagate.

Depending on your motherboard and power supply, they likely carry additional warranty periods from their manufacturers as well.

Additionally, you're absolutely entitled to technical support directly from all of the manufacturers of your individual components - yet another benefit of retail.

In short, these are some of the intangibles (extra warranty and technical support) that people often don't discuss but can be very important when purchasing a system.

Of course you'll want to use your warranty from VM while that is in place (because they have excellent tech support :thumbup: ), but it is nice to know you have places to turn after that expires...so save that receipt!!!

[indyfan31]

Whatever you do, DO NOT install AC2007! It is so buggy ADesk are just willing it to go away. Just opening an DWG in 2007 will render it unreadable in any previous version. :yuck:

Yup, shoulda got MicroStation. :cool:

[Cam]

Yup, shoulda got MicroStation. :cool:

ACK!!! I havent toyed with uS in almost 20 years! :saywhat:

[indyfan31]

ACK!!! I havent toyed with uS in almost 20 years! :saywhat:
In that time uStation has changed file formats twice, how many times has Acad done that?
uStation can open, work with, and Save As any format of Acad all the way back to 2.5, even AutoCAD 2006 can't do that.

[Spicoli]

How'd I do?:D

Digital Video and Audio Computer Systems : Vector™ PCX Digital Media PC
Base Price: 999.00 Your Price: 1337.00 Weight: 75 lbs
Case
GX-W Silver - Velocity Micro Classic Case - Pure Aluminum with side window, 2 x 120mm fans (+$10.00)
Power Supply 500 Watt Velocity Micro™ Power Supply with Dual Blue Lighted Fans
Motherboard Genuine Intel® G965 ATX Motherboard, 1066MHz FSB, 775-Pin Socket, PCI-Express
Processor Intel® Core™ 2 Duo processor E6300, dual 1.86GHz cores
CPU Cooling Arctic Cooling® Freezer 7 Heatsink, Ultra Quiet Fan, Copper Heat Pipes, plus Arctic Silver™ 5 Thermal Compound
DDR2 Memory 2048MB Corsair™ DDR2 PC5300 DDR667 (2x1024) (+$100.00)
PCX Video Intel® Graphics Media Accelerator X3000
Monitor None
Audio On-Board Integrated 5.1 Channel Sound
Speakers Creative Labs Inspire® P5800 5.1 speaker system, black (+$79.00)
Hard Drive 1 320GB Western Digital WD3200JD 7200rpm SATA/150, 8MB Cache
Hard Drive 2 None
Optical Drive 1 16x Lite On® DVD+/-RW/CD-RW Dual Layer, Black Bezel
Optical Drive 2 None
Floppy Drive & Media Reader 8-in-1 Floppy Drive & Media Reader Combo, Black Bezel (+$30.00)
Network Adapter Integrated 10/100MBps Ethernet Network Adapter
Network Adapter 2 or WiFi Adapter None
WiFi Router None
Modem None
FireWire 2 Integrated IEEE 1394 FireWire Ports, 1 front & 1 rear
USB 2.0 Ports 6 USB 2.0 Ports, 2 front & 4 rear
Operating System Genuine Microsoft® Windows® XP Home w/Service Pack 2, complete with original CD
Productivity Software None
Software Bundle Nero Digital Creation Suite - Capture, Edit, and Author Video with immersive Dolby 5.1 Surround, plus Photo Editing Suite
Security Software None
Recovery Disk Custom DVD Restore Disk, returns your system hard drive to the original factory installation (+$20.00)
Keyboard Velocity Micro™ Deluxe Multimedia & Internet Keyboard with volume control, custom made by Creative Labs - Black
Mouse Genuine Microsoft® USB Optical Wheel Mouse - Black
Network Cable None
Printers None
Printer Cable None
Power Protection None
T-Shirt FREE Velocity Micro™ Limited Edition T-shirt in Blue, size XL
Assembly Careful custom hand wiring for maximum air flow, assembled in Richmond, Virginia, USA
Quality Assurance Individual custom testing for complete system functionality, signed by the system builder and QA inspector
Documentation Owner's Manual and Accessory Pack
Installation None
Warranty** 3 Yr VelocityCare™ Parts & Labor Ltd Warranty, 1 Yr 24/7 Support with Emergency Hours, and On-Site Service (+$99.00)
Upgrade Plan Velocity Micro Lifetime Upgrade Plan allows you to return your system for maintenance, discounted upgrades, and tuning

[Cam]

How'd I do?:D
Monitor None
T-Shirt FREE Velocity Micro™ Limited Edition T-shirt in Blue, size XL


Good luck using it without a monitor! f'n cheapskate! ;)

But hey you did get the Tshirt! :gomer:

[racer2c]

Assembled in good ol' VA! it's gotta be good. Although, you won't look cool carrying that thing into Starbucks.:tony:

[Spicoli]

Good luck using it without a monitor! f'n cheapskate! ;)

But hey you did get the Tshirt! :gomer:

Oh garsh!:gomer:

:cry:

[Spicoli]

Assembled in good ol' VA! it's gotta be good. Although, you won't look cool carrying that thing into Starbucks.:tony:

Maybe......maybe not. (95lbs shipped?)

http://i10.tinypic.com/2zf29g4.jpg

[racer2c]

Maybe......maybe not. (95lbs shipped?)

http://i10.tinypic.com/2zf29g4.jpg

Looks cool. Is that a stainless case? I have a stainless case for an old gaming rig that weighs a ton.

Now a WoW acount and you're one of us. Muhahahahah!

[extramundane]

Assembled in good ol' VA! it's gotta be good.

The best part is that they're so close to both Philip Morris & DuPont plants that cancerous carcinogens are built into every system!

[Cam]

The best part is that they're so close to both Philip Morris & DuPont plants that cancerous carcinogens are built into every system!

Did you let the smoke out of your computer? :p

[Spicoli]

Looks cool. Is that a stainless case? I have a stainless case for an old gaming rig that weighs a ton.


Case
GX-W Silver - Velocity Micro Classic Case - Pure Aluminum with side window, 2 x 120mm fans (+$10.00)

[extramundane]

Did you let the smoke out of your computer? :p

Hell no! I'm afraid it won't work if it's exposed to fresh, clean air.

[pfc_m_drake]

How'd I do?:D
:thumbup:

[Spicoli]

:thumbup:

thanks dood. I told the sales dooder (yes I called it in) about this website and the nerdages that populate it and our racefreakness and our (mostly) drunken stupidity, etc etc. He was way cool and walked me thru the whole deal, explaining what exrtas i did and didn't need (for my use). Beefed up the RAM, added little stuff, extended warranty, etc...

you know what? at the end of the day, yeah sure, i spent a couple extra bucks but I really feel i researched this well, and think my money was wisely spent. My thanks to all who shared their insight and expertise.

Ship date: Oct. 19th.:irked: < only downside.

American support was the final sealer of the deal.

[story]
I recently had a hell of a time trying to communicate to some goober in India who took a call from me at the Aspen airport on behalf of United Airlines last December. If you have ever been to Aspen airport, they don;t keep the commercial airliners there (too much G4s etc) and we were snowed in. This clunk had to keep telling me - "you must wait for the flight to be cancelled". Had this guy been anywhere where there was any snow, or had any idea WTF Aspen was/is, he would know that THERE WERE NO ****ING PLANES THERE TO CANEL!:flame: It puked snow for 4 out of 5 days, and we had already spent an additional nite. I just needed to get to Denco and schedule another flight. Go ahead, call me a racist or whatever, but if I am an American, dealing with an American prollem, I wanna speak to a muther ****ing AMERICAN who speaks ENGLISH!
[/rant}


But I did ski with Ank, so I don;t actually hate all Indiana doods. Just Ank.:p

[indyfan31]

Excellent rant Spicoli (and cool PC too). Lucky you getting the US support.