FRP keeps his fag money

[RusH]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17694.html

:shakehead :gomer:

[Andrew Longman]

Explain me how that is possible.

Out of one side of their mouth they are talking to Attornies General and saying they are not sponsoring because they have taken their name off.

Then out of the other side they are talking to stockholders justifying this marketing expense by saying the red and white Marlboro chevron livery is clearly iconic of the brand and an important marketing investment.

Which is it? Are they so cynical that they think the government will let them get away with it? Is the government so corrupt or incompetent to let them? Perhaps they just figure no one will ever see it at an IRL event.

[pchall]

Which is it? Are they so cynical that they think the government will let them get away with it? Is the government so corrupt or incompetent to let them? Perhaps they just figure no one will ever see it at an IRL event.

A lot of both. Altria is corrupt and cynical in its continuing sales of tobacco products and the current government is corrupt and cynical in its enforcement of laws and policies regulating big business.

[Ed_Severson]

I fully realize that this will be a (very much) minority opinion, but ... good for Roger. This whole anti-tobacco crusade is just ****ing stupid in the first place, and the anti-smoking ****s that run this circus sideshow are equal parts moron and hypocrite. And, frankly, it's one of the big reasons Champ Car is in this mess in the first place. Penske left for the IRL because he couldn't legally run Marlboro sponsorship both in CART and at Indy ... WTF?

Cigarettes are legal. As long as that remains true, advertising them wherever you damn well please should be legal as well.

[Ankf00]

considering big tobacco's actions in the past, I have 0 sympathy for them being f'ed over by unfair legislation. same for Roger.

[racer2c]

I fully realize that this will be a (very much) minority opinion, but ... good for Roger. This whole anti-tobacco crusade is just ****ing stupid in the first place, and the anti-smoking ****s that run this circus sideshow are equal parts moron and hypocrite. And, frankly, it's one of the big reasons Champ Car is in this mess in the first place. Penske left for the IRL because he couldn't legally run Marlboro sponsorship both in CART and at Indy ... WTF?

Cigarettes are legal. As long as that remains true, advertising them wherever you damn well please should be legal as well.

Amen. And I don't smoke.

[Ed_Severson]

Me neither, for the record.

I suppose I owe that to my government's numerous efforts to save me from myself. :shakehead

[Andrew Longman]

It also a sad state when RP can't find sufficient sponsorship to replace PM. I'm sure he would rather not be associated with or take on the risk of this contrived relationship if he had better options. Remember the feds made him take the signage off the car his first year back at Indy.

I used to have PM, RJR and BW as clients years ago peddling free fags and putting up Jazz festivals and truck pulls for them. I can say pretty directly they are a pretty scary bunch and lacking in the ethics department. While I agree if its legal you ought to be able to advertise it, I don't feel sorry for them for screwy legislation and court findings.

And while I was initially concerned about the impact on motorsport when they left, I think it has actually been good for NASCAR. I am also pleased to not have them around at the track, especially with my kids. The smokes never really bothered me, but its better without them.

What's really a shame is now that the lawyers have collected their share, the legislatures are spending the tobacco money on anything they can to close widening budget gaps. It no longer has anything to do with compensating for added Medicaid/Medicare costs or tobacco eduation. Now states of just clamped tight on the tobacco teet and sucking hard.

[nrc]

Cigarettes are legal. As long as that remains true, advertising them wherever you damn well please should be legal as well.

Cereal boxes? :p

Wasn't Forsythe sued for maintaining the Players color scheme? I suppose that was in Canada.

[Ed_Severson]

Cereal boxes? :p

Absolutely. And race cars, and billboards, and TV commercials, and pretty much any other method of advertising you can think of.

[Lizzerd]

Why did I think this thread was about Helio when I first saw it?

[extramundane]

It also a sad state when RP can't find sufficient sponsorship to replace PM. I'm sure he would rather not be associated with or take on the risk of this contrived relationship if he had better options.

I suspect as long as the checks clear, he's not too concerned about what's on the sidepods. If I was in his position, I doubt I'd break my back trying to find new sponsorship when PM is willing to keep ponying up the bucks.


I used to have PM, RJR and BW as clients years ago peddling free fags and putting up Jazz festivals and truck pulls for them. I can say pretty directly they are a pretty scary bunch and lacking in the ethics department.

I agree. I had Swedish Match NA (parent co. of Red Man, Timberwolf, White Owl, Garcia Y Vega, etc, etc) as a client for several years and the level of sleaze that went on in their Marketing and Advertising departments was staggering.

[Spicoli]

cigarettes kill people. the irl sucks. they belong together.:shakehead

[Ed_Severson]

cigarettes kill people.

Can't recall the last time I saw a carton of cigarettes on trial for murder, but I do know plenty of people who choose to kill themselves with cigarettes.

Thank goodness the government exists to obliterate the concept of choice. :shakehead

[Spicoli]

Can't recall the last time I saw a carton of cigarettes on trial for murder, but I do know plenty of people who choose to kill themselves with cigarettes.

Thank goodness the government exists to obliterate the concept of choice.

:tony:

there's a really cool politics forum on turdfor-umm. go Cheque it ooot.:laugh:

seriously, unless you have been hooked and tried to give it up, you have NFC how dangerously addictive these things are. breaking that addiction is brutal.

i've been tabacco free for 3.3 years now and think about it everyday. :thumbup: then i buy myself a beer to congratulate myself.:)

[Ed_Severson]

I wasn't aware that only people who shared your life experiences could possess some ****ing clue how addictive cigarettes can be. Thanks for the life lesson. :thumbup:

[Spicoli]

I wasn't aware that only people who shared your life experiences could possess some ****ing clue how addictive cigarettes can be. Thanks for the life lesson. :thumbup:


oh, now you're just being a dick. No wonder CCWS sucks and can;t keep their dribers. its all your fault you ****ing right wing ******* know it all GW Bush coicksucking baby.:shakehead :yuck:

[Ed_Severson]

I'm not perfect, but 8:06 PM seems a bit early to be totally hammered out of your mind. :tony:

So you quit smoking, and it was hard. Good for you. I wish more people could do it. :thumbup: I watched my grandmother struggle with it for years, but she never could manage to pull it off. She died from emphysema 5 years ago this past April. I guess you'll have to forgive me for not buying your ******** line about not understanding it until I make the choice to hotbox a few cartons myself.

I'm sincerely sorry you made an idiotic choice when you were younger, and sincerely glad that you managed to undo that choice, but it was still your choice to make, just like it was her choice to make.

Some of us manage to make decisions without the government's assistance. We'd appreciate it if those of you who can't would give it a try now and then.

Thanks in advance. :cool:

[Spicoli]

I'm not perfect, but 8:06 PM seems a bit early to be totally hammered out of your mind. :tony:

So you quit smoking, and it was hard. Good for you. I wish more people could do it. :thumbup: I watched my grandmother struggle with it for years, but she never could manage to pull it off. She died from emphysema 5 years ago this past April. I guess you'll have to forgive me for not buying your ******** line about not understanding it until I make the choice to hotbox a few cartons myself.

I'm sincerely sorry you made an idiotic choice when you were younger, and sincerely glad that you managed to undo that choice, but it was still your choice to make, just like it was her choice to make.

Some of us manage to make decisions without the government's assistance. We'd appreciate it if those of you who can't would give it a try now and then.

Thanks in advance. :cool:


hammered at 8:00pm? :rofl:

not on a thursday son.

[dando]

hammered at 8:00pm? :rofl:

not on a thursday son.

That's 9 Indy time, Spickly. ;)

*cheers*

-Kevin

[Ed_Severson]

hammered at 8:00pm? :rofl:

not on a thursday son.

It's that or some sort of psychological disorder which causes you to act irrationally. I'm happy to attribute it to whichever you want to take credit for. :)

[Spicoli]

It's that or some sort of psychological disorder which causes you to act irrationally. I'm happy to attribute it to whichever you want to take credit for. :)

:gomer:

[B3RACER1a]

What gets me is there are still people who start smoking today! Everyone knows its a terrible thing for your health, but some people still deny that fact. I dont get it. For the ones that already smoke and are quitting or already quit, :thumbup: .

Anyways, I could go either way on the advertising. You can advertise all you want, but if people know your product will make your life shorter and crappier, they probably wont buy it...lol. Leave it up for the person to decide, and for the young kids who pick it up....its up to the parents to teach them about how bad it is.

I'm 25 and have never even held one. My folks taught me how bad they are for yah.

If the tobbaco goes away (it wont), people will spend money on something else. This will bring in new sponsers.

[Insomniac]

I fully realize that this will be a (very much) minority opinion, but ... good for Roger. This whole anti-tobacco crusade is just ****ing stupid in the first place, and the anti-smoking ****s that run this circus sideshow are equal parts moron and hypocrite. And, frankly, it's one of the big reasons Champ Car is in this mess in the first place. Penske left for the IRL because he couldn't legally run Marlboro sponsorship both in CART and at Indy ... WTF?

Cigarettes are legal. As long as that remains true, advertising them wherever you damn well please should be legal as well.

Marketing to children with the knowledge and intent to get them hooked on a product that is so dangerous is wrong. I'm with Ankf00, no sympathy from me.

[Insomniac]

Remember the feds made him take the signage off the car his first year back at Indy.

I thought the IRL did this. He ran them almost all month and then they said he can't run them anymore.

[Methanolandbrats]

I fully realize that this will be a (very much) minority opinion, but ... good for Roger. This whole anti-tobacco crusade is just ****ing stupid in the first place, and the anti-smoking ****s that run this circus sideshow are equal parts moron and hypocrite. And, frankly, it's one of the big reasons Champ Car is in this mess in the first place. Penske left for the IRL because he couldn't legally run Marlboro sponsorship both in CART and at Indy ... WTF?

Cigarettes are legal. As long as that remains true, advertising them wherever you damn well please should be legal as well. How about a Joe Camel Happy Meal? Why not toss little packets of Skoal at kids during Memorial Day Parades? Let's rollback all laws that limit the damage done to society by greedy corporate scumbags who only care about maximum shortterm profits. Remember "candy cigarettes"? I suppose you think those were the "free market" at work.

[racer2c]

Were there such things as tobacco ads on cereal, happy meals, Camel smokin' Barbi?


No.

[racer2c]

How about a Joe Camel Happy Meal? Why not toss little packets of Skoal at kids during Memorial Day Parades? Let's rollback all laws that limit the damage done to society by greedy corporate scumbags who only care about maximum shortterm profits. Remember "candy cigarettes"? I suppose you think those were the "free market" at work.

I remember candy cigs. So you're telling me that a tobacco company created those? They didn't lead to my smoking cigs.

I played with toy guns as a kid too but have never owned a real one.

[pchall]

I remember candy cigs. So you're telling me that a tobacco company created those? They didn't lead to my smoking cigs.


I chewed on bubble gum cigars as a kid and it didn't turn me into Carl Hass, either!

[Andrew Longman]

I thought the IRL did this. He ran them almost all month and then they said he can't run them anymore.

No, I'm pretty sure it was an attorney general. I recall a lot of talk leading up to it about whether he would get away with it. And I'm pretty sure the IRL is going to be happy with any sponsor on any sidepod. Could be wrong though.

[diamond dave]

penske = the Ferrari of the earl:laugh:

[Insomniac]

No, I'm pretty sure it was an attorney general. I recall a lot of talk leading up to it about whether he would get away with it. And I'm pretty sure the IRL is going to be happy with any sponsor on any sidepod. Could be wrong though.

I'm sure they would, but not when he'd stay in ChampCar and cherry pick the I500 every year and get his sponsor exposure to boot. :)

[Insomniac]

I remember candy cigs. So you're telling me that a tobacco company created those? They didn't lead to my smoking cigs.

I played with toy guns as a kid too but have never owned a real one.

Obviously their marketing wasn't 100% successful, but the fact remained they did market to children in the hopes of getting them addicted early. I personally don't know how effective that was either. I think peer pressure would be more effective then all of them. I wonder how many people who started smoking were the first in their group of friends to start?

[cameraman]

I wonder how many people who started smoking were the first in their group of friends to start?

One per group, I'd guess:rolleyes:

[Ed_Severson]

How about a Joe Camel Happy Meal?

Good luck selling that, but I can't see any problem with it. It isn't the tobacco companies' responsibility to make sure your kids never find out about cigarettes.


Why not toss little packets of Skoal at kids during Memorial Day Parades?

How about we start with "because advertisement and delivery of a product are two separate issues" and see where that goes?


Let's rollback all laws that limit the damage done to society by greedy corporate scumbags who only care about maximum shortterm profits.

Completely off-topic, but never let that get in the way of a good hysterical rant!


Remember "candy cigarettes"? I suppose you think those were the "free market" at work.

Sure, I remember them, and yes, they were the free market at work. Somebody (not a tobacco company, by the way) thought they were a dandy idea, manufactured and sold them, and then found out they weren't very popular. Free market economics allowed the product to be developed, marketed, and sold, and the market allowed a crappy idea for a product to die on its own. :thumbup:

[Ed_Severson]

One per group, I'd guess:rolleyes:

Direct from the Ask a Stupid Question, Get a Stupid Answer Department! :D

[G.]

A buddy brought me back a pack of new, fresh candy ciggies from a little store in Iowa. They still sell 'em, much to my surprise.

I thought they were illegal.

[extramundane]

Almost 18 hours with a thread title like that and not one Helio joke.

You people make me sick. :tony: :D

[Insomniac]

One per group, I'd guess:rolleyes:

I guess I phrased that poorly. I meant more along the lines of how many people picked it up themselves vs. starting to smoke because your friends did. I personally smoked once knowing it was bad, but being curious. My friend's mom was a smoker so it wasn't hard for us to try it. We never tried again and then he moved away. Then pretty much through high school and college none of my friends smoked. My brother had a lot of friends who smoked in high school and college and he picked up the habit knowing full well how bad it was. Fortunately, he quit after a couple years and wasn't a heavy smoker.

[Insomniac]

Good luck selling that, but I can't see any problem with it. It isn't the tobacco companies' responsibility to make sure your kids never find out about cigarettes.

You're 100% right. That's one of the reasons why the government stepped in to stop it.

[Insomniac]

A buddy brought me back a pack of new, fresh candy ciggies from a little store in Iowa. They still sell 'em, much to my surprise.

I thought they were illegal.

Was it the hard candy kind or the gum kind where you can blow the sugar out like fake smoke?

[Methanolandbrats]

Almost 18 hours with a thread title like that and not one Helio joke.

You people make me sick. :tony: :D:rofl: :rofl:

[RusH]

Almost 18 hours with a thread title like that and not one Helio joke.

You people make me sick. :tony: :D

Thanks!!!!!!!!!

:BEERS::D :rofl:

Oh,,,,,,and happy happy joy joy B,day M&brats,,,,,,,,

[Lizzerd]

Almost 18 hours with a thread title like that and not one Helio joke.

You people make me sick. :tony: :D

See post #11. :D