What I've learned [Archive] - Off Camber Forums

Racing Truth

10-26-06, 12:33 PM

You know, I've thought of myself, mistakenly I guess, as fairly educated, but I found that I've learned quite a bit this week.

*AJ Allmendinger is nothing more than a petulant money-whore.
*ChampCar doesn't REALLY need AJ, that traitorous boostard!
*Buddy Rice=AJ (F Him!:flame: ) or even if he doesn't, it cheeses off the TF crowd, so s'all good yo.
*Pope Tracy's (h/t Cork) antics were/are good for CC, while AJ was such a jerk, loose cannon, that it might be just as well for him to go Cup.
*$1 million/yr. in CC (at best) is equal to 3 mil./yr. in Cup.
*There is far more glory in CC, than NASCAR; those TV ratings must be backwards.
*Driver stability/identification is really not THAT important. Andretti, Unser, Mears were all hype, people just followed high-tech machines.
*AJ= Scott Pruett and C. Fitti. They couldn't make it in Cup, so CLEARLY AJ won't either, nevermind the gaps in talent AND age.
*Lynne Kush is also a money-whore who, God willing, will just be another Brooke Gordon. Jacktard deserves it!
*Merging with TG under any circumstance=bad; clearly this whole split thing is helping the sport.

But, even with this knowledge, I am but a mere simpleton apparently, as I still have some questions:o

1. If Lynne may have pushed FAJA to Cup, what does it say about the state of CC (or OW in general) that a former Miss Molson Indy, born in Canada, sees this as wise?

2. Beyond us yahoos, how many will follow CC, in the yrs. to come, just to watch the DP01 if drivers come and go?

I'd go to CCF but frankly, my simple mind probably could not handle such knowledge.

KLang

10-26-06, 12:44 PM

Drivers come and go. They always have.

Dr. Corkski

10-26-06, 01:06 PM

Buddy Rice is teh greatestest driver evAr since Pope Tracy and Nelson Philippe. Oh and FAJA or something.

trauma1

10-26-06, 01:11 PM

Buddy Rice is teh greatestest driver evAr since Pope Tracy and Nelson Philippe. Oh and FAJA or something.

your sounding like defender more and more:shakehead

racer2c

10-26-06, 01:29 PM

What I've learned...

There is ZERO integrity in autoracing except Paul Newman.
It's BAAAAD to kick a multi-millionare for having ZERO integrity.
Canadian girls prefer NASCAR.
90% of race fans under 25 just accept any crap that's shoved in their face.
Dogs are more loyal than AJ Allmen "Show me the money!" dinger (don't tell his fiancee).
We're supposed to all LOVE AJ Allmendinger for showing us that Champ Car will survive without him. (where's my knee pads Spicoli!)

I guess that's it. Hmm, I haven't learned much at all. I need to pay better attention.

:gomer:

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 01:38 PM

if you're an owner, letting everyone know who's boss comes before putting your team in the best position to win :saywhat:

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 01:48 PM

Doh! The dreaded double post!

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 01:50 PM

if you're an owner, letting everyone know who's boss comes before putting your team in the best position to win :saywhat:

I think "if you're an owner, refusing to compromise for a chance at a meaningless win comes before wiping your lame-duck driver's ass for him" would be closer to the truth here. I understand racing for the sake of racing, but Forsythe is in it to win a championship, and he can't do that now, so really, what consequence is it if they do or do not win this particular race?

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 02:05 PM

I doubt it's meaningless to any of the guys preparing that car or working on that team. hell, the championship is over. maybe they should all just stay home and cancel the rest of the season :shakehead

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 02:21 PM

What would be the point in keeping him in the car? He's good, but it's not like there's nobody that could be his equal. I do think Rice is an odd choice, but the act of replacing Allmendinger hardly amounts to surrender. They'll still show up and try to win ... I promise. ;)

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 02:25 PM

racer2c

10-26-06, 02:27 PM

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 02:30 PM

thanks for the news :gomer:

no disrespect to Phillipe, he drove a smart race and showed pace while other made mistakes. I wouldn't exactly say he is at AJ's or Bourdais' level, however... not even close.

KLang

10-26-06, 02:35 PM

Forsythe is getting a head start on finding AJ's replacement. Makes perfect sense to me.

AJ could have avoided all this by keeping the change to Nascar under wraps a few more weeks.

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 02:40 PM

On the flip side, maybe winning next year is taking priority, and they're getting a head start by either starting earlier than planned with next year's driver or paring down the list of guys they need to go testing with in the off-season.

Of course they want to win, but there's no point in keeping Allmendinger in the seat for sentimentality's sake, or to get one last win that ultimately means nothing in terms of this year's championship and won't get you any closer to winning one next year either. Put someone else in the car and move on ... It happens all the time. At least the guys on the crew know they'll be working with someone who wants to be there; I doubt they'll be too torn up about not having A.J. around for one race.

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 02:46 PM

you can't honestly believe that rice is being seriously evaluated for a seat next year. especially in a car that won't even be in use. this is a stop-gap solution and nothing more.

nrc

10-26-06, 02:48 PM

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 02:53 PM

Maybe it is a stop-gap solution, maybe it isn't. I'm not in daily correspondence with Mr. Forsythe; I have no idea what his plans for next year are. I don't think it's entirely impossible that he's looking at Rice for a full-time drive. Despite my own personal beliefs on the topic, Forsythe has made it clear that he thinks Champ Car needs American drivers to succeed in America; Rice fits the bill, and has the added bonus of being advertised as an Indy 500 champion, regardless of how you feel about the legitimacy of that race.

I don't know why it matters that the Lola won't be raced next year. If you want to evaluate a driver, I'd think you would prefer to do that with a known car rather than trying to evaluate the driver and car at the same time.

Maybe this is a one-race deal. If it is, so what? It's Forsythe's team, and he's free to do with it whatever he pleases. And if it isn't, there's certainly a good case to justify this move now.

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 03:01 PM

how difficult would it be to finish out the year with your most successful driver? and to focus on next year, next year? maybe win a race and send your guy on his way. it's only a distraction if you make it one.

it is forsythe's team and he can do what he want. that doesn't mean it's not stupid. but whatever... racing is rarely about winning these days. with this 07 driver search going on in earnest I'm sure they'll be one of the first teams to announce their 07 line-up... yeah, right. show me the money.

Easy

10-26-06, 03:01 PM

what I KNOW

champ car can never ever make a mistake

kk is infallible

i have nothing to base this on but ajs fiance is the reason he is going to neckcabbing

faja

i hate everything but kk and champ cars and my sweet nelson

nelson phillipe is teh awsomemest 3rd year pay driver in the world

i think i'm supposed to like buddy rice now he is such a good driver i love his balls

racer2c

10-26-06, 03:04 PM

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 03:06 PM

how difficult would it be to finish out the year with your most successful driver?

Considering the animosity Allmendinger's behavior seems to have engendered with Forsythe, perhaps far more difficult than you're willing to admit.

I gotta say, I don't understand why you're so chapped about this. Do you have 30 zillion dollars on Allmendinger winning 6 races this year at the Riviera? Was he supposed to take you out for the burrito of your life in Mexico City? What gives? It's one race, and I doubt Allmendinger's absence defaults it to a Bourdais runaway, so what's the problem?

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 03:13 PM

not any more wound up about it than you are, Ed... I've responded as many times as you have. I think it's a poor decision and have explained why. imo, no one in this thread (including you) has presented anything that shows why this is a good decision for the team or the series. YMMV.

now I'd like you to explain your reference to Allmendinger's behavior? seems that you may have some specific knowledge. what's he done to piss off Forsythe so badly? besides not resigning for substanially less than his thoroughly vanquished teammate? keeping in mind that you don't have daily correspondence with Forsythe, ofcourse.

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 03:13 PM

Okay, another question I gotta ask ... if it's true, have you got any problems with Forsythe running Jourdain in a third car in Mexico City?

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 03:20 PM

now I'd like you to explain your reference to Allmendinger's behavior? seems that you may have some specific knowledge. what's he done to piss off Forsythe so badly? besides not resigning for substanially less than his thoroughly vanquished teammate? keeping in mind that you don't have daily correspondence with Forsythe, ofcourse.

I've got no specific knowledge, but as I said earlier, I don't think it comes down to Allmendinger simply not signing the deal. Forsythe's method of dealing with his drivers in regards to contract issues is well-documented ... he prefers to sit down one on one and reach an agreement in a personal manner. He stuck his neck out for Allmendinger and expressed (publicly, mind you) his desire to sit down and hash out a long-term deal in exactly the manner described above. Instead, Allmendinger won one race and then came at him with a hotshot agent. I think it's pretty obvious Forsythe considered that to be a bit of a slap in the face, and the negotiations pretty much went nowhere fast as soon as Allmendinger chose to have Julian Jakoby conduct his affairs instead of handling it on his own.

Given what Forsythe is paying Tracy, I think there's pretty good evidence that if Allmendinger had played ball Forsythe's way, he was going to be compensated extremely well. My guess is once Allmendinger chose to make it impersonal, Forsythe's interest in going out of his way to make A.J. happy went out the window.

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 03:28 PM

forsythe did stick his neck out for AJ, and AJ rewarded that decision with win after win after win. I'd say he paid him back in kind. his stock definitely went up and I credit the driver for recognizing that fact. how he chooses to handle his business affairs is his business. good on him... all done in fair play.

gerry could've... no should've... locked AJ down from day one on a longer term deal. probably would've happened too... but wasn't willing to take that chance and now he's mad. waaaaaaaaah.

so they couldn't come to terms on a deal next year. happens all the time. that's still no reason to dump him before the end of the year. it's a sour grapes decision and has nothing to do with looking towards next year. reminds me of that cotman scandal last year... "I can't get my way so fire him" :cry:

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 03:34 PM

gerry could've... no should've... locked AJ down from day one on a longer term deal.

If memory serves, he attempted to, and Allmendinger refused anything other than a 1-year contract.

All done in fairness? Sure. All done in the spirit of two guys who each owed a debt to the other? Not even close.

Now, again ... any issues with Jourdain in a third car?

Dirty Sanchez

10-26-06, 03:39 PM

I have no opinion on jourdain in a third car... whatever they do is no doubt in preparation for next year :laugh:

gotta run, it's been fun.

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 03:42 PM

I have no opinion on jourdain in a third car...

Fair enough, but I think that points out a bit of a hole in your complaints. If they end up running a third car, you'd be hard-pressed to make the argument that stretching a two-car team to cover three cars doesn't compromise their chance of winning the race.

If you're really so upset about this for no reason other than not understanding why they seem to not care whether they win or lose, you'd be raising hell about Jourdain as well.

And hey, just for ***** and giggles ... laugh all you want about the prospects of running Rice in Mexico City to look at their options for 2007. Here's a quote from the guy making the tough decisions. :gomer:

"We've got to think about '07 and this will be a good audition for Buddy."

RHR_Fan

10-26-06, 03:52 PM

Are we going to have our first "official" meltdown? :rofl: ;)

This is all just happening way too fast!

racer2c

10-26-06, 03:54 PM

Are we going to have our first "official" meltdown? :rofl: ;)

This is all just happening way too fast!

An official meltdown requires at least one ban (where's SeanO?) and two 'apology' threads.:D

dando

10-26-06, 04:11 PM

http://www.buzzlife.com/forums/images/smilies/popcorn2.gif

mueber

10-26-06, 04:31 PM

I've learned that if the pessimists on this board were running Champ Car, they'd pay out 9 buzillion dollars, whether you have it or not, to every driver who ever even threatened to leave. Things change. They always have.

What matters is the management. WE have the skilled managers in open wheel, but no amount of money that Champ Car can reasonably spend on drivers or any other personel can compete with the money that Toyota and NASCAR are going to spend to poach whatever talent the want. Forsythe doesn't even have a sponsor. That's the way it goes. Meanwhile, Buddy Rice is available, experienced, and cheap.

Get him in the car and let's get on with it.

Fried

10-26-06, 04:32 PM

more knowledge: when competing at the highest level of motorsport (i guess champcar is the highest level of motorsport, right), some wins are "meaningless".

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 04:48 PM

more knowledge: when competing at the highest level of motorsport (i guess champcar is the highest level of motorsport, right), some wins are "meaningless".

Says who?

The last race is meaningless in terms of the championship this year, but it's still a Champ Car race. Winning it counts just like any of the others.

racer2c

10-26-06, 04:51 PM

Says who?

The last race is meaningless in terms of the championship this year, but it's still a Champ Car race. Winning it counts just like any of the others.

Especially if it's a first time winner like Speedy or Power. They will diffently think it means something and it will.

Fried

10-26-06, 05:07 PM

Says who?

The last race is meaningless in terms of the championship this year, but it's still a Champ Car race. Winning it counts just like any of the others.

tell it to this guy:

I think "if you're an owner, refusing to compromise for a chance at a meaningless win comes before wiping your lame-duck driver's ass for him" would be closer to the truth here. I understand racing for the sake of racing, but Forsythe is in it to win a championship, and he can't do that now, so really, what consequence is it if they do or do not win this particular race?

for the record, i don't take issue with jerry's right to fire aj. just with the notion that wins are meaningless.

Joelski

10-26-06, 05:16 PM

I don't remember this much furor over JPM's announcement and subsequent release from McLaren?

Fried

10-26-06, 05:27 PM

I don't remember this much furor over JPM's announcement and subsequent release from McLaren?mebbe cuz he wuzn't winning.:laugh:

Racing Truth

10-26-06, 05:31 PM

I don't remember this much furor over JPM's announcement and subsequent release from McLaren?

Well, he'd left ChampCar long ago. Yes, many of us follow F1, but being a CC-oriented board, it'll get more attention

Racing Truth

10-26-06, 05:43 PM

One more nugget of knowledge:

Via KK in Autoweek, the Vegas race will be "one of the biggest motorsports events in the United States."

:tony:

Insomniac

10-26-06, 05:48 PM

What difference would one more win make in the big scheme of things? Why put the team through a one week "Arrivederci A.J." tour with all the questions and distractions that creates for the team when you can move on and start thinking about the future?

I don't see the big deal either. He was a lame duck, why go through the motions? Buddy Rice is a weird choice, but if they are seriously considering him for 2007, it's a good move.

This happens in almost every business. If you resign and say you're going to a competitor, most places show you the door instead of letting you stick around 2 weeks (you still get paid for 2 weeks). This isn't any different.

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 05:55 PM

for the record, i don't take issue with jerry's right to fire aj. just with the notion that wins are meaningless.

For the record, you're taking issue with a notion that nobody believes is true. Have fun with that.

grungex

10-26-06, 06:18 PM

AJ could have avoided all this by keeping the change to Nascar under wraps a few more weeks.
Ding ding ding! This post says it all.

Turn7

10-26-06, 06:23 PM

what's the point? he's won several races, is 2nd in the championship and is the only guy this season that has something for bourdais.

but on the other hand he made gerry mad so I guess buddy rice makes more sense. winning isn't that important.

If winning was everything with Forsythe, he wouldn't have bought all that CART stock. :D

Sometimes you just have to take a stand on principals, no matter what the expected out come may be. I think that is a good character trait that he has, sometimes he sticks to his guns so much he shoots his foot but, that's ok.

Fried

10-26-06, 06:28 PM

For the record, you're taking issue with a notion that nobody believes is true. Have fun with that.are you the special one? or did you not even read your own quote? maybe you typed with your left hand.

cameraman

10-26-06, 06:35 PM

Anybody think that AJ racing at Atlanta before the Champ Car season ended just might have mightily pissed off GF? I would wager that announcing that he was driving NASCAR this weekend was the straw that broke the camel's back.

It would have been interesting to see GF's reaction when he found out that little bit of information:eek:

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 06:46 PM

are you the special one? or did you not even read your own quote?

I'm well aware of what I wrote. Did I use the word "meaningless"? I sure did. I also wrote some other words. I guess I was hoping my audience would read all of 'em. Sorry if my use of words other than the ones you find interesting is causing some sort of stumbling block for you.

Since you seem to not understand, let me plainly state it for you. I do not believe the 2006 Gran Premio Telmex Presented by Banamex is a meaningless race, nor would winning it constitute a meaningless win for anyone in the field. I also do not believe that Gerry Forsythe believes it's a meaningless event.

Sorry the context of my comments whizzed by you there. That was a scary moment. :gomer:

Sean O'Gorman

10-26-06, 08:26 PM

I learned that people who stand along a fence and watch racing know more about what real drivers want to do with their career than the drivers themselves.

racer2c

10-26-06, 09:09 PM

I learned that people who stand along a fence and watch racing know more about what real drivers want to do with their career than the drivers themselves.

Now you're 'gettin' it'. Driver = space between the engine and steering wheel.;)

Cam

10-26-06, 09:22 PM

Methinks Gerry is a graduate of the Frank Williams school of driver management.

Ed_Severson

10-26-06, 09:26 PM

Methinks Gerry is a graduate of the Frank Williams school of driver management.

Nah ... he's paying Tracy way too much for that to be true. ;)

Cam

10-26-06, 09:29 PM

Nah ... he's paying Tracy way too much for that to be true. ;)

That's true... Maybe the curriculum was only delivered in June? :p

Cam

10-26-06, 09:34 PM

Now you're 'gettin' it'. Driver = space between the engine and steering wheel.;)

PEBSWAP = Problem Exists Between Steering Wheel And Powerplant. :D

racer2c

10-26-06, 09:56 PM

PEBSWAP = Problem Exists Between Steering Wheel And Powerplant. :D

thank you. I suck.

Indy

10-28-06, 04:04 AM

Whatever, as a fan I just don't want to look at AJ's ugly mug, not even one more time. If Forsythe has to be big enough to accept AJ's decision, then AJ should be big enough to hit the road like any professional who runs to the competition.

Hameroids

10-29-06, 12:53 PM

Yoko Kushnirenko's bum has been widening steadily since she hit the Bronte lotto. She'll continue her decline to a hotness level that is well below typical CC driver trim standards very soon.

She's the one who needed to move to the NASCAR paddock before she lost her ride. She can compete at the Cup level for many years to come. Can't blame her though; Girl's gotta make a living somehow.