View Full Version : Bordais borrowed Tracy's chrome horn.
jonovision_man
11-12-06, 06:17 PM
The chrome sidepod anyway... :)
Justin doesn't sound too burnt about it.
"I didn't think it was completely on, but..."
Good sport.
jono
RARules
11-12-06, 06:43 PM
It seemed to me that - given Bourdais' line - contact was unavoidable. It was another "dive bomb".
From a driving style perspective, why does it seem that Bourdais seems to get the better end of most all these incidents? Is it because he seems to approach these incidents in a manner where contact is inevitable but he's far forward enough when it happens that his rear wheel does the business of the impact - where it has more natural strength than the front wheel of the guy in front?
Also, even if there's not direct contact with the other's front wheel, hitting the front wing or sidepod is not likely to take Bourdais out either but the guy in front still may have controllability issues.
I've seen aggressive drivers in Champ Car before, but I don't think I've seen this kind of (premeditated???) tactic before. It seems like he's planning on the contact.
Am I all wet on this?
GOFAST1
11-12-06, 07:04 PM
This was a great race to the last minute. Great pass.Wilson was tired,what a job.
Spicoli
11-12-06, 07:07 PM
F Newman Haas. They already had the Championship, yet FreFu had to go and dive bomb for what? You know that could have fubar'd BOTH drivers, yet Craig Hampsterd and his little FreFu'er mealy mouf had to go a make that move....
FNH.:mad:
Dr. Corkski
11-12-06, 07:24 PM
Scoreboard.
jonovision_man
11-12-06, 07:27 PM
F Newman Haas. They already had the Championship, yet FreFu had to go and dive bomb for what?
The race win... which they got.
You know that could have fubar'd BOTH drivers, yet Craig Hampsterd and his little FreFu'er mealy mouf had to go a make that move....
2nd was useless for them, as you said they already had the Championship, the only reason to show up in Mexico was to win the race. They did just that. Good job, gents. A little sloppy... ok, really really sloppy, but it was then or never, might as well go for it, nothing to lose.
jono
GOFAST1
11-12-06, 07:34 PM
F Newman Haas. They already had the Championship, yet FreFu had to go and dive bomb for what? You know that could have fubar'd BOTH drivers, yet Craig Hampsterd and his little FreFu'er mealy mouf had to go a make that move....
FNH.:mad:
FreFu has made the pass II and was great to watch.Superb race from the start to finish. There is not a "call" in Champcar.Pure racing to the end.Congratulations and thanks to Newman-Hass for great season.
Sure beats the pass in the GA GT race a year ago at the same spot when Porsche LEAPED to victory over the Pontiac. Now THAT was sloppy...but he won!:) Any video of that one?
Sean O'Gorman
11-12-06, 07:45 PM
That was a great move. I only saw the last six laps but it was worth it. I applaud Bourdais for going for it.
F Newman Haas. They already had the Championship, yet FreFu had to go and dive bomb for what? You know that could have fubar'd BOTH drivers, yet Craig Hampsterd and his little FreFu'er mealy mouf had to go a make that move....
FNH.:mad:
Couldn't have said it better myself. Just think, in 2007 they'll have a Rahal, too. Let the hatin' commence.
Hate away. You'll probably have ample opportunity.
Methanolandbrats
11-12-06, 08:52 PM
F that whining, androgynous French peckerwood. That looked like NASCAR. ****, if Schumacher did that, 90% of you guys would be calling for him to receive the death penalty.
Ruben Barrios
11-12-06, 09:17 PM
PT fans confuse me a lot...:saywhat:
When PT does it he gets praised for not being a sissy.... Anyway... Stupid moves never make my day!
Yeah, NASCAB on it's better days at Sonoma or Watkins Glen when guys like Gordon, J Gordon R or a few others who also know how to turn right are going at it. I think the personal driver-centric attitude exibited in your post is much more like the NASCAB you seem to hate. That was great racing whether it had been PT pulling that move, Tag, Power, Goofy Mario or anyone else. ChampCar looked GREAT in Mexico City! (excepting the "start.":shakehead )
F Newman Haas. They already had the Championship, yet FreFu had to go and dive bomb for what? You know that could have fubar'd BOTH drivers, yet Craig Hampsterd and his little FreFu'er mealy mouf had to go a make that move....
FNH.:mad:
Hampsturd....what fat lipped tard!!!:gomer:
:rofl:
devilmaster
11-12-06, 10:01 PM
Good pass in the end, props to Seabass for pulling it off.
However - Don't be whining when Tracy pulls the same thing on you the next time it happens.
Lizzerd
11-12-06, 10:09 PM
I thought it was a fine pass. Rough, legal, gutsy, and potentially disasterous... yes again. I have little love for SB, but I respect him for making such a move to win a race. I was very much pulling for Justin.
Screw that they-already-had-a-championsip stuff. Why do the racers race? To win races! :eek: Imagine that. SB is not on my short list of favorite drivers, but he is a winner, and he proved it today. Give him credit for that.
Zeki_06
11-12-06, 10:16 PM
The Pass II
Not even close. The move by sebas was a little stupid not intrepid.Those cheering are doing so because nobody was taken out of the race.
Accipiter
11-12-06, 11:19 PM
Last lap. If you're a racer, you've gotta go for it. :thumbup:
Good pass in the end, props to Seabass for pulling it off.
However - Don't be whining when Tracy pulls the same thing on you the next time it happens.
Worth repeating.
Chiphead_Dave
11-13-06, 12:38 AM
Welllll......SB got it done but had PT done the same thing he would have
been penalized.
I was hoping JW would shut the door;)
WIlson had the opportunity to block but he gave him room. Seabass seen an opportunity and took it. Difference between this and PT is PT would have t-boned Wilson in a blatent takeout attempt punctuated by his reputation.
It was a great race regardless of the contact.
devilmaster
11-13-06, 04:11 AM
The Pass II
Sorry Rick, gotta disagree.
First off, 'The Pass' should be an amazing move which doesn't initiate contact - in that sense I don't believe this ranks.
Second, if it deserves 'The Pass' contention, it should be labeled the third. 1st was Zanardi on Herta at LS, 2nd was Moore on Zanardi at Rio.
TKGAngel
11-13-06, 09:07 AM
I have a question. I thought that it was in the rule book that during a pit stop, a car must be on the air jacks until the fueling is done. On SeaBass' last pit stop, they did not put the car up on the jacks. Is that rule only in existence during stops where they are changing tires?
Also, did anyone catch what Newman said to SeaBass in Victory Lane?
jonovision_man
11-13-06, 09:19 AM
Sorry Rick, gotta disagree.
First off, 'The Pass' should be an amazing move which doesn't initiate contact - in that sense I don't believe this ranks.
Second, if it deserves 'The Pass' contention, it should be labeled the third. 1st was Zanardi on Herta at LS, 2nd was Moore on Zanardi at Rio.
Zanardi on Herta at LS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0srtAuAnF0
Moore on Zanardi at Rio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KBSaLzHs8
I don't think Moores pass counts as a "The Pass", there were more laps left. Good pass, but not "The Pass". :)
jono
Sorry Rick, gotta disagree.
First off, 'The Pass' should be an amazing move which doesn't initiate contact - in that sense I don't believe this ranks.
Second, if it deserves 'The Pass' contention, it should be labeled the third. 1st was Zanardi on Herta at LS, 2nd was Moore on Zanardi at Rio.
At least he stayed on course ;)
Actually my line of thinking is in regards to passes that are still talked about, so in that sense, it should be three....at least. You know I'm old and my memory fails me from time to time.
Joelski
11-13-06, 10:10 AM
At least when PT does it, it's do or die rather than a pre-meditated hack. Kermy telegraphed that move several laps before it took place. PT is the king of boneheaded moves, but he is spontaneous in his efforts. Last lap/last turn. high-risk, blah-blah... What kermy did th epast two races was out and out preconceived sabotage of another driver's run. He's had brilliant drives, but he's proved just as often that he's no in-traffic driver.
Good pass in the end, props to Seabass for pulling it off.
However - Don't be whining when Tracy pulls the same thing on you the next time it happens.
My thoughts as well. I suspect though that SB will have completly forgotten about it the next time someone pulls a similar move on him.
Good race overall. :thumbup:
I'm ready for Vegas '07. :cool:
RHR_Fan
11-13-06, 10:30 AM
Also, did anyone catch what Newman said to SeaBass in Victory Lane?
I think Jon said it was something about a baby. I think Claire is due in Dec.-Jan. ish, but I could be totally wrong.
~Nicole
Last lap. If you're a racer, you've gotta go for it. :thumbup:
That's it. If you are the leader it is your job to block. If you are second, on the last lap, it's your job to pass. Now, if it happened on lap 23, I'd feel differently, but it happened on the last lap, and SB did it in a way that made it possilbe for Wilson to survive.:thumbup:
The issue, for me, of some passes done in the past, is that they turned one or both of the cars into trash.
Spicoli
11-13-06, 10:45 AM
I think Jon said it was something about a baby. I think Claire is due in Dec.-Jan. ish, but I could be totally wrong.
~Nicole
Yep, that's what I heard. sure hope its his. :p
That's it. If you are the leader it is your job to block. If you are second, on the last lap, it's your job to pass. Now, if it happened on lap 23, I'd feel differently, but it happened on the last lap, and SB did it in a way that made it possilbe for Wilson to survive.:thumbup:
The issue, for me, of some passes done in the past, is that they turned one or both of the cars into trash.
So true. I give SB credit for going for it, the championship was already decided. It was an agressive move that should catch the attention of F1 principals.
jonovision_man
11-13-06, 12:17 PM
At least when PT does it, it's do or die rather than a pre-meditated hack. Kermy telegraphed that move several laps before it took place. PT is the king of boneheaded moves, but he is spontaneous in his efforts.
What do you base that on...? It looked pretty spontaneous to me, he saw a chance and dived down the inside.
I think SB's move was boneheaded enough, but he had nothing to lose, the championship was his already. PT risks it all when he has plenty to lose... which makes them extra boneheaded. And usually PT's misadventures end up with both drivers walking back to the pits. Wilson and SB both got to the finish line.
jono
If Wilson was really holding up Bourdais like Hampson and others alluded to, Bourdais should have been able to pass him without using Wilson's sidepod as a bumper to make the turn. That being said, I probably would have tried the same thing if I was in Bourdais' position.
The most disappointing thing is that Wilson wasn't mad after the race. Why did Wilson bother drinking his milk when he was young if he isn't going to use his size to intimidate and beat the crap out of other drivers?
SB is a jerk. He totally ruined a good street parade.
:p
jonovision_man
11-13-06, 12:33 PM
If Wilson was really holding up Bourdais like Hampson and others alluded to, Bourdais should have been able to pass him without using Wilson's sidepod as a bumper to make the turn.
Problem was that Wilson had more push-to-pass, so that he could scamper away from Bourdais at the usual passing areas.
jono
You mean he had more "push to defend" left than Bourdais.
I wouldn't have had a problem with Bourdais' move except for the fact that he has never admitted fault for any incident he's been involved in. If you listened carefully to the broadcast, Bourdais and Hampson went out of their way to clarify to Derek Daly that it was a bump in the road that led to the incident with Will Power in Australia. When you blame a bump in the road that had been there the entire weekend for a crash, it's not surprising that many people weren't too excited about the way Bourdais passed Wilson for the lead.
Do you think Newman/Haas has a special deal with Champ Car that if they are ever penalized for an incident they'll immediately quit and go to the IRL?
devilmaster
11-13-06, 01:07 PM
Zanardi on Herta at LS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0srtAuAnF0
Moore on Zanardi at Rio:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-KBSaLzHs8
I don't think Moores pass counts as a "The Pass", there were more laps left. Good pass, but not "The Pass". :)
jono
Not the last lap, I agree. But it took place with 4 laps to go, and they didn't switch places again. That was the final pass for the win, so in my mind, it quals for 'The Pass' award. on top of the 2 above, you have arnoux and villeneuve (although that one could count for about 20 'the pass' awards all on its own)
We could probably have a whole thread about qualifiers for 'The Pass' award.
Hard Driver
11-13-06, 01:22 PM
F that whining, androgynous French peckerwood. That looked like NASCAR. ****, if Schumacher did that, 90% of you guys would be calling for him to receive the death penalty.
Big difference. There is a big difference between an aggressive pass and intentionally trying to take someone out who is passing you. There is a big difference between going for a win and intentionally blocking the track to red flag qualifying to take the poll. Schuey is just a dirty racer. Bourdais was just being aggressive. If Schuey did the same move on Alonso, I would also think it was a fair attempt. I don't like Schumacher, but not because he tried to pass someone. And my guess is that other Schumacher haters feel the same.
Redwing
11-13-06, 01:23 PM
Wilson left the door wide open to a faster car/driver in a good passing area on the last lap. Fangio once said about his pass on P. Collins in the '57 German GP -"Never let the other guy have the inside of YOUR corner".
Hard Driver
11-13-06, 01:37 PM
The most disappointing thing is that Wilson wasn't mad after the race. Why did Wilson bother drinking his milk when he was young if he isn't going to use his size to intimidate and beat the crap out of other drivers?
:rofl:
jonovision_man
11-13-06, 01:39 PM
Wilson left the door wide open to a faster car/driver in a good passing area on the last lap. Fangio once said about his pass on P. Collins in the '57 German GP -"Never let the other guy have the inside of YOUR corner".
You're right.
Wilson :
"The last three laps were really tense," said Wilson. "In the end, I slid wide into Turn 4, Sebastien got a run out of Turn 5 and the rest was history."
jono
jonovision_man
11-13-06, 01:44 PM
We could probably have a whole thread about qualifiers for 'The Pass' award.
We could. :)
A few of my favourites:
Jacques on Schuey at Portugal:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbOU-TCbvPM
Hakkinen on Schuey at Spa:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ4vRxgeTnw
From Zonta's on-board:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C08Y745j47Y
jono
Do you think Newman/Haas has a special deal with Champ Car that if they are ever penalized for an incident they'll immediately quit and go to the IRL?
I think you are on to something there.
Yep, that's what I heard. sure hope its his. :p
Give it up. She'll never go for an AmFu like you.
Give it up. She'll never go for an AmFu like you.
You mean DruFu... ;)
You mean DruFu... ;)
:rofl:
Spicoli
11-13-06, 03:30 PM
You mean DruFu... ;)
Who spent all day in a bar yesterday.:laugh:
Trevor Longman
11-13-06, 03:39 PM
What a race! While I would have liked to see JW and SB go through the Paraltada like they did a few laps before that, We had fun with it, They had fun with it, and it's not like they had to save the equipment.:rolleyes:
Seeing them drift through the Paraltada was one of my favorite images of the year.:cool:
Andrew Longman
11-13-06, 04:03 PM
What a race! While I would have liked to see JW and SB go through the Paraltada like they did a few laps before that, We had fun with it, They had fun with it, and it's not like they had to save the equipment.:rolleyes:
Seeing them drift through the Paraltada was one of my favorite images of the year.:cool:
Yo! You're in school right now. This is school work?;)
Who spent all day in a bar yesterday.:laugh:
Who wimped out? :p
Spicoli
11-13-06, 04:16 PM
Who wimped out? :p
Axe Lisa why I wasn't there. :tony:
Axe Lisa why I wasn't there. :tony:
You watched it at the flagroom with your buddy T13? :saywhat:
Spicoli
11-13-06, 06:39 PM
You watched it at the flagroom with your buddy T13? :saywhat:
I am pretty sure I wasn't at the Flag Room.:gomer:
My only comment on that pass
Had it been Sebastian who took the shot, how long would he have bitched?????
He needs to realize he has to take a few of these as well. There was no DNF, it's not like he drove into the back of Tracy:p
He a fast sissy, that's about it.
Axe Lisa why I wasn't there. :tony:
He is excused, he had a good reason. He was being a good father. Can't fault him for that, but don't axe me. :)
oddlycalm
11-14-06, 05:54 PM
I have a question. I thought that it was in the rule book that during a pit stop, a car must be on the air jacks until the fueling is done. That's in sports cars such as Le Mans and ALMS. I can't recall ever having a rule like that in Champcars. Splash and goes have always been done with the car on the ground.
oc
Andrew Longman
11-14-06, 06:56 PM
That's in sports cars such as Le Mans and ALMS. I can't recall ever having a rule like that in Champcars. Splash and goes have always been done with the car on the ground.
oc
And they drop the car as soon as the tires are on to get a little more help from gravity pushing the fuel in.
oddlycalm
11-14-06, 11:33 PM
Just gotta say that it's damn nice, and a sign of progress, that this long thread is about two drivers in a hammer and tong battle for the lead during the final laps of the season. Seeing both those cars drifting through La Peraltada on a drying track was a fitting final moment for the Lola Cosworth. :thumbup: When I look back on this end to a long era it would be hard to imagine a nicer memory to take away.
We saw a fair amount of racing this season, particularly during the second half, and for a while it's seemed like it was more important that the endless racing politics or remergification talk we've all had to endure.
oc
Just gotta say that it's damn nice, and a sign of progress, that this long thread is about two drivers in a hammer and tong battle for the lead during the final laps of the season. Seeing both those cars drifting through La Peraltada on a drying track was a fitting final moment for the Lola Cosworth. :thumbup: When I look back on this end to a long era it would be hard to imagine a nicer memory to take away.
We saw a fair amount of racing this season, particularly during the second half, and for a while it's seemed like it was more important that the endless racing politics or remergification talk we've all had to endure.
ocOutstanding post!
There were some damn fine races this year. I am particularly fond of the Oz race.:thumbup:
He a fast sissy, that's about it.
Very funny. Wasn't there a band in the eighties called Fast Sissy? I think the front man was an androgynous foreigner with red spectacles.
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