View Full Version : Test Drive
RaceGrrl
11-14-06, 01:57 PM
This past Saturday, Richard and I test drove a few more cars- looking for something to replace my Contour SVT. Since I do some costume vending at regional events, I need a fair amount of trunk space. A few weeks ago we drove the Mustang GT and the Mazdaspeed 6. The Mustang is out of the question, primarily because the cargo capacity is non-existent. I also am not thrilled at the prospect of a daily work commute in a RWD V8 in winter.
This weekend we drove the Audi A4, the Volvo S40, the Mazdaspeed 3 and the Mazdaspeed 6- all with manual transmissions.
Since the dealership didn't have the S40 T5 available, we drove the regular S40 with manual transmission first. The clutch was a little too mushy for my taste and it seemed like there wasn't much power on acceleration. We also drove the turbocharged automatic, but it was a drag because I couldn't really feel the turbo since I wasn't doing the shifting. Meh. Not impressed. I did take a different route on the test drive than they normally allow, and that allowed us to see how it handled on a twisty, hilly road. Nice handling and unique body styling scored points.
Next we drove the Audi. I liked it quite a bit, and could feel the power that the turbo provides. I always liked that about our Merkur. Since I'm used to driving a 5-speed, it was a bit of an adjustment to remember to shift into 6th gear. By this time it was dark outside and it was rainy, but I felt pretty comfortable really testing the car. Maybe there's some subconscious impact that the AWD had on my confidence in the car's ability to handle poor conditions. Braking was great, but the clutch on the A4 also felt mushy to me. Cargo space = A+. I'm not thrilled by the inverted bathtub body style.
After the Audi, we drove the Mazdaspeed 3. Since the dealership only had one on the lot, they do not take them out on the road for test drives. (stupid) Our sales guy told us we could drive it on their autocross course. Ok- yeah. Fun.. night driving in the rain on an autocross course. NOT. He drove it through the course twice, then Richard drove, and then I put on my old-lady hat and drove it. Of course, our signature on a liability form had something to do with that. I don't really want to pay for damage done to a car on a fricking tiny autocross course. I'd rather dodge orange barrels on the real road than on some miniature autocross course. I couldn't even hit highway speed at any point in the course. What a pain. I was very irritated by that but didn't complain too much. Yet. Oh yeah. About the car- it was ok. Not as fun to drive as the 6, but it's cute and met the cargo space requirement. Maybe I was just too pissed off by not being able to drive it on the road to really give the car a chance. I also don't really want a "cute" car.
The last one we drove was the Mazdaspeed 6. The first sales guy was busy with another customer, so they sent out a different guy. He told us we couldn't take it on the road so we were going to the autocross course. I said, 'no thanks.' He insisted. I again said, "no, we drove the 3 on that and it was awful. If I can't take the 6 on the road, don't waste your time.' Besides, we'd driven the 6 on the road just a month before and there wasn't a problem then.
He looked doubtful, but did allow us to take it, although he rode along with us. HATE THAT. Did you ever think, Mr. Stupid Sales Guy, that I want to talk freely with my husband about the car instead of hearing you talk about how fun it is to drive the 6 on the autocross course and how you used to race autocross? He just wanted to show off. :saywhat:
I really like the 6. It felt comfortable because we have the Miata and the RX8 and the make is familiar to me now. I really like the way the clutch feels in the 6- just enough resistance. The acceleration was exactly how I remembered it and I like the longer shift throws. Again, I kept forgetting to shift into 6th. :o So I'm getting ready to merge onto the freeway and Mr. Stupid Sales Guy said "did you check out the stereo? It's really great."
Ok, that ranked right up there with me being asked by a different sales guy if I'd checked out the lit visor mirror. :irked: I said, "that's the least of my concerns. I like to hear the engine when I'm testing a car anyway." That did it...not another peep from Mr. Stupid Sales Guy for the rest of my drive.
I really like the 6, but the smaller trunk capacity is a drawback. Since the seats do not fold down, I'd have to put some of my storage bins on the seat when I travel and that just looks bad.
So... it looks like I'm going to have to drive the S40 T5 before we can start trying to work out a deal. Fun way to spend a Saturday afternoon though. :D
sounds like you had a good time. When I was testing the S40 T5 the manuals weren't stateside yet :( Love the interior & sound system though :thumbup:
RaceGrrl
11-14-06, 02:33 PM
Love the interior & sound system though :thumbup:
Yeah, but did you like the visor mirror? :D
The best part is that now that we've run through the cones a few times we're experts on all forms of racing. So we've got that going for us.
chop456
11-14-06, 02:41 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I was at the launch party for the Mazdaspeed3, held at the Hard Rock in Las Vegas during SEMA week.
If you want to support ChampCar, that's the car to have. The Launch party was sponsored by Mazda, Cooper Tires, and the Atlantic Series. The Atlantic Drivers were out in full force supporting the car, and their new tire manufacturer. Chatting with one of the Cooper Tire folks, they're very, very excited about their participation in the Atlantic Series.
There was also a Mazdaspeed3 decked out in CooperTire and Atlantic Series logos. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it pacing Atlantic races next season. The Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6 have the same engine, although the engine in the 3 is tuned to squeeze out a little bit more HP. (And the 3 weighs a bit less than the 6!)
Yeah, but did you like the visor mirror? :D
Oh yes, very stylish. And the wood trim accentuated the Italian leather perfectly. This car is not for your typical gauche naive.
The best part is that now that we've run through the cones a few times we're experts on all forms of racing. So we've got that going for us.
^^^ it just bears repeating... :D
Here's some pictures from the party (not mine) http://www.filmmagic.com/ItemListing.aspx?cgl=243077&EventI=0&navtyp=CAL&ym=200611
On page 3, you'll see the Cooper Tire/Atlantic Series car.
TKGAngel
11-14-06, 02:55 PM
There was also a Mazdaspeed3 decked out in CooperTire and Atlantic Series logos. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it pacing Atlantic races next season. The Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6 have the same engine, although the engine in the 3 is tuned to squeeze out a little bit more HP. (And the 3 weighs a bit less than the 6!)
But would the version for the pace cars come with the lit visor mirror? I'm sure the lovely ladies of the pace car team would be heartbroken if it didn't.
The best part is that now that we've run through the cones a few times we're experts on all forms of racing. So we've got that going for us.
Hee Hee. :D (sorry, sean).
There was also a Mazdaspeed3 decked out in CooperTire and Atlantic Series logos. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it pacing Atlantic races next season. The Mazdaspeed3 and Mazdaspeed6 have the same engine, although the engine in the 3 is tuned to squeeze out a little bit more HP. (And the 3 weighs a bit less than the 6!)
That's backwards according to Mazda:
Six: 270@5500
Three: 263@5500
I enjoyed the 3 a lot, but as a comfortable year-around driver the 6 makes a bit more sense.
What M dealer did you visit so I know to avoid them when we look for a replacement vehicle next spring?
-Kevin
The best part is that now that we've run through the cones a few times we're experts on all forms of racing. So we've got that going for us.
Best. Subtle. Dig. Ever. :laugh:
sounds like you had a good time. When I was testing the S40 T5 the manuals weren't stateside yet :( Love the interior & sound system though
The S40 is a little small for my tastes but I really liked the S60 T5. I would have bought one but there were no T5s to be found with the options I wanted and I didn't want to wait to order one. Most confortable car seats I've ever sat in. :thumbup:
My BMW salesman likes to show off manually shifting the auto while the customer is driving. :irked: I told him if he didn't stop I was going to pull over and get out. :irked:
Joelski
11-14-06, 03:52 PM
The best part is that now that we've run through the cones a few times we're experts on all forms of racing. So we've got that going for us.
Yeah, but does it have a tube frame?
:D
Dirty Sanchez
11-14-06, 04:01 PM
That's backwards according to Mazda:
Six: 270@5500
Three: 263@5500
I enjoyed the 3 a lot, but as a comfortable year-around driver the 6 makes a bit more sense.but the 3 weighs 436 lbs. less.
for both cars... 280 ft-lbs of torque @3000rpms (hp sells cars, torque wins races)
3>6 (and costs significantly less)
What M dealer did you visit so I know to avoid them when we look for a replacement vehicle next spring?
-Kevin
Good Ol' Fred Ricart.
http://www.columbusconsumer.com/Copy%20of%20cover.jpg
Good Ol' Fred Ricart.
http://www.columbusconsumer.com/Copy%20of%20cover.jpg
Oh. Dear. Lord. You didn't. :eek: :saywhat: :yuck:
-Kevin
but the 3 weighs 436 lbs. less.
for both cars... 280 ft-lbs of torque @3000rpms (hp sells cars, torque wins races)
3>6 (and costs significantly less)
The other factor is traction. The 6 puts the power down through all four wheels while the 3 struggles to put it all down though the front wheels. The 3 is faster but not by as much as you would expect given the weight difference.
No question the 3 is a fun little go-kart but the 6 is tons of fun for a grown-up sedan.
On the price, besides the difference in equipment level (no vanity mirror ;) ) there are big discounts on the 6 right now and probably nothing on the 3. In fact they're probably asking a mark-up right now. :laugh:
Oh. Dear. Lord. You didn't. :eek: :saywhat: :yuck:
-Kevin
We test drive there all the time. They've got the best inventory anywhere. We've also bought there before (only place with an SVT or a yellow Rx8). You just have to handle them like a rabid weasle (with apologies to weasles).
The other factor is traction. The 6 puts the power down through all four wheels while the 3 struggles to put it all down though the front wheels. The 3 is faster but not by as much as you would expect given the weight difference.
No question the 3 is a fun little go-kart but the 6 is tons of fun for a grown-up sedan.
On the price, besides the difference in equipment level (no vanity mirror ;) ) there are big discounts on the 6 right now and probably nothing on the 3. In fact they're probably asking a mark-up right now. :laugh:
I can vouch for the traction on the front wheel drive Mazduh. My Protege5 is attrocious in slick conditions.
Dirty Sanchez
11-14-06, 04:42 PM
isn't the 6's "AWD" a Haldex system? that's not true AWD. it's basically FWD with some rear assist when things get slippery. they should've just saved the weight and made it a FWD car... because that's the way it's going to drive the majority of the time.
"AWD" will probably move more units though.
Just a suggestion. I have a Toyota Solara V6 that I just love. Good size trunk, rear seats fold down. You didn't say if you were looking for a 2 or 4 door, but if you like 2 doors definately check out the Solara. The Camry is the 4 door version.
Just avoid Toyota Direct, rabbid weasles doesn't begin to describe them.
Just avoid Toyota.
Fixed it. :)
Around here, all you get is crap from salespeople who can't understand why anyone would want a manual. It took me six months and 12 dealers before I found what I wanted, and a salesperson that was interested in selling me what I wanted.
Methanolandbrats
11-14-06, 05:03 PM
Try a GTI with DSG gearbox.
oddlycalm
11-14-06, 05:08 PM
Sounds like you're on the right track with the Mazdas.
BTW, I actually like the Audi A3 better than the A4, but unless you are looking for a car with the reliablility of a 1976 Alfa Romeo, skip the Audi. My experience with Volvo isn't a lot better. Had one for a company car. Nice car, but an endless procession of minor issues. Who has time for it, particularly at those prices?
oc
isn't the 6's "AWD" a Haldex system? that's not true AWD. it's basically FWD with some rear assist when things get slippery. they should've just saved the weight and made it a FWD car... because that's the way it's going to drive the majority of the time.
"AWD" will probably move more units though.
Yes. Mazda calls it an "Active Torque Split all-wheel drive system, which can divert up to 50 percent of the engine's torque to the rear wheels." I couldn't find what the base split was. I think most Subarus have a similar setup. Most of the time it's 70/30 to the front wheels, but can go 50/50 when needed.
It's not true 4x4, but it is AWD.
Wikipedia lists the reaction time as only a seventh of a wheel spin. Haldex (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldex)
:burnout smilie:
*I should have said older subarus have the 70/30 split. New ones have a base split of 50/50 and can move it around depending on conditions.
We test drive there all the time. They've got the best inventory anywhere. We've also bought there before (only place with an SVT or a yellow Rx8). You just have to handle them like a rabid weasle (with apologies to weasles).
My Uncle was the service manager there years ago (mainly to support his drag racing @ Kirkersville), so I've heard too many inside horror stories. My wife (then girlfriend) had an unsavory experience there shortly after she graduated from OSU, and we'll never go back. Luckily we have enough choices now on the NW side that we don't need to go back. Ever. :irked:
-Kevin
Audi_A4
11-14-06, 07:47 PM
I loved my A4 Quattro when I had it. The warranty was amazing. Once the warranty ran out holy crap those are $$$ to repair. Also once the warranty runs out the resale value of a used audi is crap. Now I have a 2006 BMW 325i Sport, it is great in the snow with winter tires, and fast and handles amazingly well.
Rear wheel drive is alright in the winter you just need good tires.
Sean O'Gorman
11-14-06, 08:17 PM
The best part is that now that we've run through the cones a few times we're experts on all forms of racing. So we've got that going for us.
Funny, but a tiny autocross lot at a Ricart dealership (that guy doesn't even play the guitar, does he????) doesn't compare to actual autocross. But don't take my word for it, just ask Mazda 6 driver Randy Pobst. :D
I don't know if you've closed the door on the Mazdaspeed 3 or not, but a few people I race with test drove the car, and one of them bought one. Reviews: http://www.noraracing.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=393
Yes. Mazda calls it an "Active Torque Split all-wheel drive system, which can divert up to 50 percent of the engine's torque to the rear wheels." I couldn't find what the base split was.
The base split with the Mazda system depends on the conditions it sees - 100/0 for normal driving mode or 50/50 for sport driving mode. There's also a "snow" mode but I've never seen the split on that quoted.
Dirty Sanchez
11-14-06, 10:54 PM
those modes are not manually selectable. haldex functions as FWD until it detects slip and then it pushes it to the rear.
viscous coupling (what the majority of subies use), and torsen (quattro) are superior AWD systems.
haldex is lighter and cheaper tho'
Joelski
11-14-06, 11:30 PM
those modes are not manually selectable. haldex functions as FWD until it detects slip and then it pushes it to the rear.
viscous coupling (what the majority of subies use), and torsen (quattro) are superior AWD systems.
haldex is lighter and cheaper tho'
My truck has Torsen diffs. :cool:
B3RACER1a
11-15-06, 12:44 AM
My folks just bought an S40 T5 a few months back. I finished detailing and the winter prep on it last weekend, then we all took a trip to Indy (I'm moving out! New job! :cool: ) Anyways, I must say the paint is very nice on that car. I drove most of the way too.....great car. Quite, good power, and for the type of car it is, crisp handling. Its nowhere near my RX8, but its good.
When they were test driving cars I went with them and they tested the Mazdaspeed 6. Its a fun car, but I wish it used a true AWD system like a torsen. Other than that, no complaints at all. VERY fun to drive...and makes a great daily driver at the same time. MS3 was the same type of thing, just smaller and FWD.
Personally, I'd probably go with the T5. The body work is superb. All the metal is rolled very nicely and tight, no spots for rust....etc. Just the build is very good for a 30K.
those modes are not manually selectable. haldex functions as FWD until it detects slip and then it pushes it to the rear.
viscous coupling (what the majority of subies use), and torsen (quattro) are superior AWD systems.
haldex is lighter and cheaper tho'
Audi uses "Quattro" to refer to both torsen and haldex systems. The Mazda system isn't a Haldex hydraulic clutch system. It's an electromagnetic clutch system so the torque split can be electronically controlled without waiting for slip.
Yes, it's still a coupler, like the haldex, not a center differential, but it works nicely and it's well worth having when you try to get that much power to the ground.
chop456
11-15-06, 06:25 AM
If you want Quattro, there's only one logical choice.
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/09/q7v12tdi1.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2006/09/q7v12tdi9.jpg
INGOLSTADT, Germany - Audi is proud to present a world first – the first twelve-cylinder diesel engine in a series passenger car. This six-liter V12 makes its debut in the Audi Q7. It produces a colossal 500 hp and 738 ft.-lbs. of torque. With this engine Audi has opened a new chapter in diesel history.
The V12 TDI is reminiscent of the engine featured in the new R10 Le Mans racing car – it catapults the driving performance of the Audi Q7 into the echelons of top-class sports cars. The car sprints from 0 to 62 mph in just 5.5 seconds, and has an electronically governed top speed of 155 mph. Maximum torque is available from just 1,750 rpm. The high-tech diesel engine, with the world's first 29,000 psi Bosch Common Rail system, provides the high-performance Audi SUV with superior power reserves in any situation. The impressive sound of the new Audi is provided by the ultra-modern piezo-injection system. The V12 TDI transmits this power through a new six-speed tiptronic gearbox to the quattro permanent four-wheel drive system.
And it'll run on soybeans. :D
http://www.haldex-traction.com/default.htm
Currently the Haldex AWD-system is introduced on the following vehicle models
- Volkswagen Golf 4motion
- Volkswagen Bora 4motion
- Volkswagen Beetle Rsi
- Volkswagen Passat 4motion
- Volkswagen Sharan 4motion
- Volkswagen Multivan 4motion
- Audi A3/S3 Quattro
- Audi TT Quattro
- Skoda Octavia 4x4
- Seat León
- Seat Alhambra
- Volvo S40 AWD
- Volvo V50 AWD
- Volvo S60 AWD
- Volvo S60R AWD
- Volvo V70 AWD
- Volvo V70R AWD
- Volvo XC 70
- Volvo S80 AWD
- Volvo XC 90
- Bugatti Veyron
- Ford Freestyle
- Ford Fivehundred
-Mercury Montego
Bugatti Veyron? :saywhat:
chop456
11-15-06, 08:34 AM
BugattI Veyron? :saywhat:
It's a VW. :D
Dirty Sanchez
11-15-06, 10:16 AM
The other factor is traction. The 6 puts the power down through all four wheels...sorry, this statement suggests that the 6 has permanent AWD and that's just not the case. sounds like you've done a little homework since you made it tho' :thumbup:
by now you probably realize that it will operate as a FWD car until slippage occurs... like a Haldex system. btw, who manufactures Mazda's AWD system??
as an Audi owner I'm also aware that Quattro refers to two-types of AWD systems. the majority of the line uses a Torsen system... only the A3/S3 and TT use a Haldex system. both are junk in comparison.
RaceGrrl, do you suppose you can arrange a DP01 test drive for me? I hear the power-weight ratio is decent. No AWD, but I will be careful, I promise. :cool:
cameraman
11-15-06, 01:49 PM
*I should have said older subarus have the 70/30 split. The older Outbacks also had 135 hp when they were new. The handling of the awd system really isn't that much of an issue when Toyota Tercels are sailing past you on long grades:shakehead
There are a couple of grades on I-84 in Idaho where the '95 Outback can not maintain the speed limit:irked:
A fantastic car in the snow but the awd system is a damned anchor on the highway in the summer.
If you get an AWD anything, Test that baby out in a snow-covered parking lot somewhere in early winter.
I have a Subby ( Perhaps you remember it from such places as the Mile and Road America. ). It's an auto trans, so I don't drive it, I steer it.:gomer:
The auto runs 90/10 Fr/re under normal conditions. It has an electronic xfer case. When slip >=20%, BAM you're at 50/50.
It can turn a nice, smooth but aggressive power-slide into a very quick change of direction! Like, towards the thing you are trying to slide away from. Very recoverable, but some early winter practice is a must!
So, if it's an electronic XFER case, why the hell doesn't it have a winter-wonderland 50/50 override button?!?:flame:
When you're driving on a snow-packed road, and the crown in the road is causing you to drift over into another lane, your solution is to gun the engine to kick the 50/50 into gear (spin wheels while moving - tough to do with that ***** engine). that happened to me one trip.
What's my blogpoint?
If you get an AWD anything, Test that baby out in a snow-covered parking lot somewhere in early winter.
cameraman
11-15-06, 01:59 PM
More to the point, don't get an automagic transmission and expect it to be good in snow.
The older Outbacks also had 135 hp when they were new. The handling of the awd system really isn't that much of an issue when Toyota Tercels are sailing past you on long grades:shakehead
There are a couple of grades on I-84 in Idaho where the '95 Outback can not maintain the speed limit:irked:
A fantastic car in the snow but the awd system is a damned anchor on the highway in the summer.I gotta call BS on this one!:mad: My Subby can handle ANY grade at the Speed limit! Granted, I have (I think) 155 hp, but it can do it!
Oh, wait.
I live in Illinois.
Never mind.
:p
(wussy engine, true dat.)
chop456
11-15-06, 02:28 PM
What about a G35x?
sorry, this statement suggests that the 6 has permanent AWD and that's just not the case. sounds like you've done a little homework since you made it tho' :thumbup:
Sounds like I'm responding to someone being pedantic. The original comment was talking about the practicality of launching a 270hp car. There's no question that in that scenario the six puts power down with all four wheels.
by now you probably realize that it will operate as a FWD car until slippage occurs... like a Haldex system. btw, who manufactures Mazda's AWD system??
The Mazda system is completely computer controlled. It doesn't have to wait for wheelspin to lock the center coupling. Mazda claims that they use ECU data to predictively adjust the torque split and based on driving it I see no reason to doubt that. I never argued that the Active Torque system was just as good as the (non-junk) Quattro system, but it's better than you think.
I don't know who builds it. It appears to be Mazda's own system. It's not a standard Haldex built system if that's what you're implying.
as an Audi owner I'm also aware that Quattro refers to two-types of AWD systems. the majority of the line uses a Torsen system... only the A3/S3 and TT use a Haldex system. both are junk in comparison.
It's helpful to know that your original comment that Mazda should have left the MS6 a FWD car was idiotic rather than just ignorant.
http://nyx.at/bikeboard/Board/images/smilies/popcorn.gif
Dirty Sanchez
11-15-06, 02:58 PM
Sounds like I'm responding to someone being pedantic. The original comment was talking about the practicality of launching a 270hp car. There's no question that in that scenario the six puts power down with all four wheels.that is the first mention of launching... but in that scenario AWD happens only after slippage has occured (after you've already lost some traction). all of the torque gets put through your front wheels before it's determined that they can't handle it. the fact remains that the car will operate as a FWD under most circumstances.
The Mazda system is completely computer controlled. It doesn't have to wait for wheelspin to lock the center coupling. Mazda claims that they use ECU data to predictively adjust the torque split and based on driving it I see no reason to doubt that. I never argued that the Active Torque system was just as good as the (non-junk) Quattro system, but it's better than you think.
I don't know who builds it. It appears to be Mazda's own system. It's not a standard Haldex built system if that's what you're implying.you don't know who built it but you know who didn't build it? :laugh: besides supplying AWD systems to VWAG they (Haldex) also supply AWD systems to FoMoCo. last I checked Ford owned Volvo (Haldex) and Mazda. yet you are suggesting that Mazda independently designed, tested and manufactured an AWD system for a limited production car that is nearly identical to Haldex :saywhat:
Haldex makes a electronically controlled AWD system, btw... it's on their website: Electronic Limited Slip Differential (Haldex eLSD)
It's helpful to know that your original comment that Mazda should have left the MS6 a FWD car was idiotic rather than just ignorant.meh. matter of opinion. dollar for dollar and pound for pound the 3 outperforms the 6.
Joelski
11-15-06, 04:13 PM
Sidenote: If you want to get the best performance/life out of your LSD, use either Redline or Royal Purple synthetic diff lube. No need for friction modifier, and your diff temps will run 30-50 degrees cooler.
Spicoli
11-15-06, 04:45 PM
http://www.freewebdesign.be/smileys/images/costumed/costumed-smiley-089.gif
chop456
11-15-06, 11:49 PM
Sidenote: If you want to get the best performance/life out of your LSD, use either Redline or Royal Purple synthetic diff lube.
I thought you were supposed to drink orange juice.
B3RACER1a
11-15-06, 11:51 PM
I'll 2nd that Joelski :thumbup:
that is the first mention of launching... but in that scenario AWD happens only after slippage has occured (after you've already lost some traction). all of the torque gets put through your front wheels before it's determined that they can't handle it. the fact remains that the car will operate as a FWD under most circumstances.
The Mazda system is entirely computer controlled. They claim they don't have to wait for slip, they use telemetry to anticipate and select the best torque setting. There's no reason they can't lock the coupler as soon as they detect a certain throttle position, for instance.
you don't know who built it but you know who didn't build it? :laugh: besides supplying AWD systems to VWAG they (Haldex) also supply AWD systems to FoMoCo. last I checked Ford owned Volvo (Haldex) and Mazda. yet you are suggesting that Mazda independently designed, tested and manufactured an AWD system for a limited production car that is nearly identical to Haldex :saywhat:Put it this way, it's not the Haldex hydraulic clutch system that you keep talking about. In fact, Google can't find a single mention of Mazda anywhere on the Haldex site. There are plenty of mentions of their other customers. If it's built by Haldex, it's a state secret.
Mazda has been known to build few interesting parts for themselves. But the Active Torque system isn't unique to the MS6. The system was originally used in the Tribute, this version is in the MS6 and CX7 and the CX9 will use a similar system.
Haldex makes a electronically controlled AWD system, btw... it's on their website: Electronic Limited Slip Differential (Haldex eLSD)According to Google the eLSD is a limited slip differential intended to be used with the standard Haldex center coupler. Not the same thing. Good find, though. :laugh:
meh. matter of opinion. dollar for dollar and pound for pound the 3 outperforms the 6.If performance numbers and price were the only factors in car buying decisions you might have a point. But who would buy Audis in a world like that?
Speaking of performance figures - the latest C&D lists the MS6 as .4 seconds faster than the MS3 in both 0-60 and the quarter mile. :laugh:
Hard Driver
11-17-06, 12:51 AM
I'm biased to the Audi, since I own one. Personally, I have not had significant maintenance costs on a 2000 model S4. But I do think the potential for high maintenance costs is there. And if you want more power, the Audi turbos can be easily chipped for a decent HP boost. http://www.goapr.com/Audi/products/ecu_upgrade_b7a4.html
As far as they styling, yea, I actually like the older ones better. That new grill is just wierd, although it seems to be "in" with several other cars too.
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