View Full Version : National Championship?
Is Saturday's Ohio State/Michigan game the real national championship?
coolhand
11-16-06, 12:35 PM
No, there are still teams out there they have not played
you can't call it the "title game" when tOSU has yet to face either of the other 2 top teams in conference.
if they win, kick ass and good luck in glendale, if they lose, the Rose Bowl isn't a bad consolation prize...
FYI, the Fiesta Bowl is not the title game. The BC$ Championship is a +1 game @ the site of the bowl game hosting whatever bowl is in the rotation that year. F'ed up. Gimme a playoff!
IMO, the system is what it is. Play it out, and we'll see if they rematch. I'm beginning to think SC will play the winner, as I'm doubtful ND or Cal can pull off an upset in SoCal. We'll see how it goes.
-Kevin
Is Saturday's Ohio State/Michigan game the real national championship?
It's probably the only one that I'll watch, to tell the truth. Unless there's a rematch in Jan.
Just have time for interesting Big 10 games. And the Illini ain't fittin' in that category.:cry:
Lizzerd
11-16-06, 02:44 PM
I would vote for option 4. The game does not determine the champion, and there should not be a rematch "regardless". If, after the game, there is another legitimate #2, that team gets the shot to the winner. But, if the OSU, UM game is, say, a one point game, and the loser is still #2, then I think a rematch would be justified.
Mandel:
Here's what I find most amusing about all this: If I had to wager, I would guess that around 90 percent of the people crying for an OSU-Michigan rematch are also in favor of a college football playoff. And yet, in saying these things, they're actually validating university presidents' and conference commissioners' biggest concern about a potential playoff: That it would devalue college football's regular season.
Here we are, just days away from one of the biggest regular-season games in the history of the sport -- and all anyone wants to talk about is a game that won't be played until Jan. 8. Can you imagine if there actually was a playoff? No one would care about this weekend's game because they'd already know both teams would be in it. The coaches might rest their starters.
By no means do I think the BCS is perfect, but to me, there are certain aspects of college football that are far more important than making absolutely, positively sure the two best teams play for the national championship. Preserving the sanctity of the regular season -- in particular rivalry games -- is right at the top of the list.
To all the people out there already crying for an OSU-Michigan rematch, think about the statement you're making. You're basically saying it no longer matters whether a team wins its conference and that the result of the national-championship game trumps anything before it. "Oh, you lost on a last-second field goal, Ohio State? Here -- take a mulligan."
And those are just the philosophical reasons why the rematch argument is flawed. Here's the more pragmatic reason: The season isn't over yet! Yes, Ohio State and Michigan have been the two best teams in the country to this point, but they have yet to play their biggest game. Meanwhile, teams like Florida, USC, Arkansas and Rutgers still have three games left. To declare on Nov. 18 that the loser of Saturday's game is definitively the second-best team in the country is like giving a review of a movie that you walked out of with 20 minutes left.
coolhand
11-16-06, 06:53 PM
If OSU won and they had to replay UM you OSU people would be crying about having to paly them again. Expecially if OSU loses the second game. In effect that means this weekends game was meaningless.
The rematch thing is lame and no one wants to see it besides the team that loses this weekend.
Racing Truth
11-19-06, 01:52 PM
Mandel:
Bump. Well, what do y'all think AFTER the classic?
My guess is it will be USC IFFFF they win out. Otherwise, I think School up North will get another shot.
I agree w/ Mandel on not being enamored with the idea of a rematch. For one, as f00boy has mentioned, rematches usually S-U-C-K in college football. And esp. after last night's classic, can't we just let that one stand as is and not have it, potentially, ruined by a less-than stellar rematch (or another close one that answers nothing)? Two, yes, it makes last night meaningless and just a "preview" really. That's not what an OSU/UM game should be.
That said, my biggest objection to a rematch is the system under which it occurs. If a rematch occurs in a PLAYOFF, so be it. There's nothing pre-ordained about that; it just works out that way. Since you would have no way of knowing in advance, I don't think a playoff rematch would take much away from the 1st game.
Oh, and this notion that coaches would rest starters is IDIOTIC. This is NOT the NFL, where vets know what they're doing. Even the best college players (perhaps w/ 1 or 2 exceptions-throughout the nation- who are just that good) need playing time as they're still maturing and learning. Plus, games like OSU/UM, The Iron Bowl, Civil War, etc. are so ingrained on the college culture that they'll always matter, IMHO.
But again, if not SC, probably a rematch. I'm eliminating ND right now, I SHOULD eliminate UF (Should have lost to the other SC, then play a I-AA?:saywhat: ), and I have a hard time believing Arky could stay with UM (not impossible, though. I do like Arky).
Bump. Well, what do y'all think AFTER the classic?
My guess is it will be USC IFFFF they win out. Otherwise, I think School up North will get another shot.
I agree w/ Mandel on not being enamored with the idea of a rematch. For one, as f00boy has mentioned, rematches usually S-U-C-K in college football. And esp. after last night's classic, can't we just let that one stand as is and not have it, potentially, ruined by a less-than stellar rematch (or another close one that answers nothing)? Two, yes, it makes last night meaningless and just a "preview" really. That's not what an OSU/UM game should be.
That said, my biggest objection to a rematch is the system under which it occurs. If a rematch occurs in a PLAYOFF, so be it. There's nothing pre-ordained about that; it just works out that way. Since you would have no way of knowing in advance, I don't think a playoff rematch would take much away from the 1st game.
Oh, and this notion that coaches would rest starters is IDIOTIC. This is NOT the NFL, where vets know what they're doing. Even the best college players (perhaps w/ 1 or 2 exceptions-throughout the nation- who are just that good) need playing time as they're still maturing and learning. Plus, games like OSU/UM, The Iron Bowl, Civil War, etc. are so ingrained on the college culture that they'll always matter, IMHO.
But again, if not SC, probably a rematch. I'm eliminating ND right now, I SHOULD eliminate UF (Should have lost to the other SC, then play a I-AA?:saywhat: ), and I have a hard time believing Arky could stay with UM (not impossible, though. I do like Arky).
SC unless they lose or struggle mightily against the gomer domers. Interestingly the polll up now on ESPN.com has UM leading SC 33% to 26%.
EDIT: the AP keeps UM as #2 by 9 points of SC. This will be an interesting BC$ poll this afternoon.
-Kevin
watching more of the game, without some mistakes the game isn't even that close. solid game, but USC/Arky/UF/ND deserve the shot over UM. That said, I don't even think anyonw deserves a shot to begin with at this point, hand the trophy over right now.
RT: totally disagree on the resting the starters, coaches will use every safe chance to get their underclassmen game experience. and rivalries will always matter, but rivalries are that much better when the title picture is on the line.
coolhand
11-19-06, 04:20 PM
Imagine if UM beat tOSU in glendale and crowned winners of the MNC. I can here the tOSU fans complaining that they beat UM etc..........It is a stupid thought, in the old system two teams would have not played together in a bowl again.
watching more of the game, without some mistakes the game isn't even that close. solid game, but USC/Arky/UF/ND deserve the shot over UM. That said, I don't even think anyonw deserves a shot to begin with at this point, hand the trophy over right now.
We spotted them 10 points, but that's part of the game. I'll wait to pass judgment until I see SC/ND Sat. Then we'll have a basis for comparison. As it stands right now, SC = 1 W vs. top 10, UM = 2 Ws vs. top 10 and 1 L vs. #1. SC's loss was outside the top 25. ND will be a great comparison for both UM and SC.
I've got an idea...if SC beats ND, make 'em play UM for the chance to play The OSU. :)
-Kevin
Imagine if UM beat tOSU in glendale and crowned winners of the MNC. I can here the tOSU fans complaining that they beat UM etc..........It is a stupid thought, in the old system two teams would have not played together in a bowl again.
It is what it is. No matter who we play, I won't complain one bit after we win. :gomer:
-Kevin
coolhand
11-19-06, 04:30 PM
It is what it is. No matter who we play, I won't complain one bit after we win. :gomer:
-Kevin
Yeah, but say you lost to UM in Arizona, Then would the "game of the century" mean anything?
not to UM fans :laugh:
spinner26
11-19-06, 04:31 PM
I'm thikin til OSU is beat they are the National Champions.;)
Who can beat them? Who knows, I'd a never guessed Cinci woulda beat Rutgers:eek: so I suppose it is possible, just not probable.
coolhand
11-19-06, 04:31 PM
We spotted them 10 points, but that's part of the game. I'll wait to pass judgment until I see SC/ND Sat. Then we'll have a basis for comparison. As it stands right now, SC = 0 Ws vs. top 10, UM = 2 Ws vs. top 10 and 1 L vs. #1. SC's loss was outside the top 25. I've got an idea...if SC beats ND, make 'em play UM for the chance to play The OSU. :)
-Kevin
Arkansas?
UM still #2 in the latest BC$ poll. Me thinks the quality of SC's performance will affect next week's human polls, and will ultimately who plays The OSU.
-Kevin
Arkansas?
How can ya fergit beating a team with a pig on their helmet. ;) I was fixing that post while you typed yers. :gomer: :)
-Kevin
Insomniac
11-19-06, 06:00 PM
I'm obviosously biased here, but I don't understand how #3 WVU loses to #5 UofL and drops to #10 and is currently #7 and USC loses to an unranked Oregon State falls to #8 and is now #3. Then #2 Michigan loses to #1 OSU and stays right where they are. I can live with Michigan, but this whole it's better to lose early than late is kind of BS.
Insomniac
11-19-06, 06:04 PM
UM still #2 in the latest BC$ poll. Me thinks the quality of SC's performance will affect next week's human polls, and will ultimately who plays The OSU.
-Kevin
2 more weeks of football left and OSU and UofM are done for the season. Florida/Arkansas will meet and USC/ND will meet. We will see if either can perform well enough to convince the computers (and all but USC needs to convince the humans).
coolhand
11-19-06, 06:11 PM
UM still #2 in the latest BC$ poll. Me thinks the quality of SC's performance will affect next week's human polls, and will ultimately who plays The OSU.
-Kevin
Well the computers over powered the two human polls, I think if we beat ND we will leap them.
edit- UM has 12 games done, we only have 10.
coolhand
11-19-06, 06:13 PM
I'm obviosously biased here, but I don't understand how #3 WVU loses to #5 UofL and drops to #10 and is currently #7 and USC loses to an unranked Oregon State falls to #8 and is now #3. Then #2 Michigan loses to #1 OSU and stays right where they are. I can live with Michigan, but this whole it's better to lose early than late is kind of BS.
SOS
Outside the Louville, WVU, Rutgers triangle you guys have played very little. Miami sucks this year.
I'm obviosously biased here, but I don't understand how #3 WVU loses to #5 UofL and drops to #10 and is currently #7 and USC loses to an unranked Oregon State falls to #8 and is now #3. Then #2 Michigan loses to #1 OSU and stays right where they are. I can live with Michigan, but this whole it's better to lose early than late is kind of BS.
Well it's even sillier that the polls would have WVU > Louisville and Louisville > RU. WVU doesn't have a win vs. a ranked team yet, while Louisville defeated WVU and a then ranked Miami. :\ It's a matter of a lack of respect by the human polls, and SOS issues with the computer polls.
-Kevin
Insomniac
11-19-06, 07:58 PM
SOS
Outside the Louville, WVU, Rutgers triangle you guys have played very little. Miami sucks this year.
It seems humans don't really use S.O.S. as part of their equation though. If they did, then UofL and WVU wouldn't have been #5 and #3 in the first place. I know every fan of every team thinks there is bias in the human polls, but I think there is in their lack of consitency. And there must be something wrong with the computer formula when USC stays #3 after losing to a then 5-3 Oregon State.
Insomniac
11-19-06, 08:00 PM
Well it's even sillier that the polls would have WVU > Louisville and Louisville > RU. WVU doesn't have a win vs. a ranked team yet, while Louisville defeated WVU and a then ranked Miami. :\ It's a matter of a lack of respect by the human polls, and SOS issues with the computer polls.
-Kevin
The only explanation I can have for that is:
WVU lost to UofL
UofL lost to Rutgers
Rutgers lost to Cincy who both WVU and UofL beat.
Which makes WVU's loss the least worst?
coolhand
11-19-06, 08:44 PM
It seems humans don't really use S.O.S. as part of their equation though. If they did, then UofL and WVU wouldn't have been #5 and #3 in the first place. I know every fan of every team thinks there is bias in the human polls, but I think there is in their lack of consitency. And there must be something wrong with the computer formula when USC stays #3 after losing to a then 5-3 Oregon State.
Look at who they have beaten
Insomniac
11-19-06, 10:42 PM
Look at who they have beaten
09/02 at Arkansas W 50-14
09/16 #19 Nebraska W 28-10
09/23 at Arizona W 20-3
09/30 at Wash St W 28-22
10/07 Washington W 26-20
10/14 Arizona St W 28-21
10/28 at Oregon St L 33-31
11/04 at Stanford W 42-0
11/11 #21 Oregon W 35-10
11/18 #17 California W 23-9
Up to that loss, no one? And 3 of them were close/come from behind wins.
coolhand
11-20-06, 12:08 AM
Look at where Arkansas is. *Hint, look in the top 5 right now
coolhand
11-20-06, 12:45 AM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/bowls/predictions
If this happened it would be the worst bowl season ever!
devilmaster
11-20-06, 01:09 AM
This is why the BCS is an abortion and will always be an abortion.
Didn't anyone ever think, when they conceived this monstrosity, that maybe, just maybe, the #1 and #2 teams may come from the same conference?
I've hated the BCS since day 1. Do I want to see a rematch? No and Yes.
No, there shouldn't be a rematch because I still believe in: OSU won, so they go to the Rose.
But since they came up with the garbage that is the BCS, and the whole point of the BCS is to pit the best against the best in the nation, then yes, there should be a rematch. And I hope the powers that be freakin choke on it.
And to Mandel: you're using stupid logic so shut the hell up. The people who want a playoff system (i'm one of them) may want it because the BCS with its computers and systems sucks donkey balls. Every few years it seems the BCS makes a mistake. If there must be something different than they way it was done for years, then do a playoff system like every other major stick and ball sport in America, and solve it the way it should be solved, on the field. Not in a judging system and computer algorithms.
Insomniac
11-20-06, 10:06 AM
Look at where Arkansas is. *Hint, look in the top 5 right now
That's where they were when they beat them. They had a long trek up the polls.
Insomniac
11-20-06, 10:19 AM
http://cbs.sportsline.com/collegefootball/bowls/predictions
If this happened it would be the worst bowl season ever!
"The Mountainers won't win the Big East, but are ranked ahead of Louisville in every poll and that will influence the selection."
Glad the writer knows how the Big East champion is determined. There is no tiebreaker and it is based only on conference record. If they get the BCS bid, they'd either be co-champs or outright champs. I'd like USC/WVU. USC has a pretty good defense, and coolhand can see that USC is overranked. ;) (BTW--I don't think WVU should be any higher really, just that USC shouldn't be that high)
Insomniac
11-20-06, 10:22 AM
And to Mandel: you're using stupid logic so shut the hell up. The people who want a playoff system (i'm one of them) may want it because the BCS with its computers and systems sucks donkey balls. Every few years it seems the BCS makes a mistake. If there must be something different than they way it was done for years, then do a playoff system like every other major stick and ball sport in America, and solve it the way it should be solved, on the field. Not in a judging system and computer algorithms.
They already tacked on an extra week, might as well have a play-off of the Top 4 teams. No matter how many you include, and how, someone will always be left out when there are 100+ D1 schools and they don't play some type of schedule that makes sense.
coolhand
11-20-06, 03:09 PM
That's where they were when they beat them. They had a long trek up the polls.
:shakehead no it means the team was better then people thought
Insomniac
11-20-06, 03:24 PM
:shakehead no it means the team was better then people thought
:confused: I didn't imply it didn't.
And somehow, USC who had trouble putting away unranked teams and lost to an unranked team is the 3rd best team in the country because they beat Arkansas (soundly) to open the season?
:confused: I didn't imply it didn't.
And somehow, USC who had trouble putting away unranked teams and lost to an unranked team is the 3rd best team in the country because they beat Arkansas (soundly) to open the season?
you forgot to mention an arky playing with 18 yo true freshman qb due to real qb being injured, and an AA RB playing with a foot injury. quite the feather in the hat ;)
At first I supported a rematch. But the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Football, and college football in particular, is a sport where you get one shot to prove you are better than another team. This isn't a best-of-seven NBA/MLB/NHL series. What happens if Michigan beats Ohio State by one point in the national title game? Does it really deserve to be the national champ at that point? Why not have a third game and make it best two out of three? To me, for Ohio State to prove that it is indeed worthy of the title, it needs to beat someone outside of its little circle of teams that it plays, such as USC, Florida or Arkansas.
Michigan had its shot at a national championship and came up three points short. Nobody else is going to get a second chance. The best of the remaining teams should get a chance to dethrone the king.
Whoever. Bring 'em.
I don't like the idea of a rematch. But beating Michigan twice in one season and a national title. Talk about a dream season. :)
At first I supported a rematch. But the more I think about it, the less sense it makes. Football, and college football in particular, is a sport where you get one shot to prove you are better than another team. This isn't a best-of-seven NBA/MLB/NHL series. What happens if Michigan beats Ohio State by one point in the national title game? Does it really deserve to be the national champ at that point? Why not have a third game and make it best two out of three? To me, for Ohio State to prove that it is indeed worthy of the title, it needs to beat someone outside of its little circle of teams that it plays, such as USC, Florida or Arkansas.
Michigan had its shot at a national championship and came up three points short. Nobody else is going to get a second chance. The best of the remaining teams should get a chance to dethrone the king.
Count me in this camp, too.
-Kevin
But beating Michigan twice in one season and a national title. Talk about a dream season. :)
Yeah, but it'll be harder to spell LLLLLLoyd Carr when that happens. :)
Hopefully it gets settled this weekend, Troy get his award in two weeks, and then it's a month lead up to game on. :) :saywhat:
-Kevin
with the 5th bcs bowl & week delay between bcs & title game, the infrastructure is there for a +1 system...
with the 5th bcs bowl & week delay between bcs & title game, the infrastructure is there for a +1 system...
And someone please explain to me WTF the GMAC and International bowls are doing be played the week of the BC$ bowls!?! :saywhat:
http://www.bcsfootball.org/cfb/story/6191402
:shakehead
Latest guesses on who's going where. OU vs. UM in the Rose Bowl? :laugh:
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2627844&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos2
-Kevin
coolhand
11-20-06, 07:59 PM
you forgot to mention an arky playing with 18 yo true freshman qb due to real qb being injured, and an AA RB playing with a foot injury. quite the feather in the hat ;)
:cry: :cry:
Excuses excuses. 50 points
*shrug*
no qb, no rb, crow all you want.
coolhand
11-20-06, 08:20 PM
yeah, Chauncy Washington did not start or play that much. He is our starter now etc. anyone can make excuses.
I still don't see how McFadden would have prevented our O from putting up 50 points on them
Wisconsin is locked out of the BCS even though they are 8th. Only 2 teams from a conference can go. Cool thing is they'll get the SEC #2 in the Captiol One bowl.
yeah, Chauncy Washington did not start or play that much. He is our starter now etc. anyone can make excuses.
I still don't see how McFadden would have prevented our O from putting up 50 points on them
yea, he didnt play because the rest of your rb corps needed to break a knee before he became USC's only option. :gomer:
and if you can't figure out how maintaining possession & steady drives keeps the other team from putting up points (especially considering how inept USC was in the first half) there's no point in continuing
coolhand
11-21-06, 01:11 AM
yea, he didnt play because the rest of your rb corps needed to break a knee before he became USC's only option. :gomer:
and if you can't figure out how maintaining possession & steady drives keeps the other team from putting up points (especially considering how inept USC was in the first half) there's no point in continuing
I understand that, but our team had no difficulty finding the endzone
apparently you missed the first 45 minutes of the game
coolhand
11-21-06, 01:45 AM
apparently you missed the first 45 minutes of the game
Your point? USC has done most of their scoring in the second half the past 3 seasons.
a 50-7 win is big
so is a 40-7
or a 30-7
ill take 21-7
their last touchdown was with our 3rd string in at the end
Fact is that we beat down the #1 SEC team that you were saying was a bottom feeder after we beat them.
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