View Full Version : Scary stuff- air travel
datachicane
11-16-06, 12:51 PM
This guy's story has been floating around a bit for the last couple of weeks. Pretty damn sobering.
Rubber ball leads to arrest (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=618629)
Right or wrong, lipping off to the TSA or security at an airport is always a bad idea these days.
Right or wrong, lipping off to the TSA or security at an airport is always a bad idea these days.
Yep, being a dick never has and never will get you anywhere.
TKGAngel
11-16-06, 01:19 PM
I'm not going to ask why this guy felt it necessary to bring a rubber band ball in his carry-on luggage.
That aside, I'm tired of hearing people complain about the TSA and screening. Its not a perfect system, we all know that. But people seem to forget that these screeners are just doing their jobs and there's no reason to act like a complete douche to them. Alright, some of the screeners do go on a power trip, but there is no need to mouth off, get physical or otherwise abuse these people. Just shut up, put your big boy/girl underoos on, grab your ziplock bag and be done with it.
I went through the first six pages of that thread and not one person pointed out that the post originator could have handled it differently and saved himself some grief. :shakehead
Yeah, shut up and submit to authority like a good little lamb. :shakehead
I was threatened with arrest by some Barney Fife at Indy International because I left my son's collapsed playpen sit alone for thirty seconds while I scooted our luggage into line at ticketing. He demanded to X-Ray the playpen, I said that we would miss our flight, and he said he would make sure of it. Only quick work by the airline personnel, who disapproved of Mr. Authority, got us on the plane after a lengthy X-Ray process where I was forced to leave my family and accompany Barney. It was very clear that the problem was not the playpen, but a cop with power issues, the worst type of personality for that job. I did not submit unquestioningly, so I was targeted.
I believe it is the responsibility of every American to stand up to such abuse. I have flown dozens of other times with no problems, but when I encounter bullying I will push back.
Keep them honest or they will keep you as pets.
The guy lives in Anchorage and acts like a dick.
I wonder what his dad's name is...
(OT, seems a bit extreme on the TSA front, but, meh.)
Andrew Longman
11-16-06, 02:03 PM
I travel A LOT and I have to say that I am generally impressed with how professional and courteous TSA staff is. In fact I am shocked to say that. If you can, think back to how it was before they took over. Think back to the 4.25/hr rent a cop asleep at the xray machine.
But I will also say that at EWR recently a test of security showed that 18 of 20 items (guns knives etc) placed in carry on were not caught. The TSA responded with an inquiry into who leaked this to the press.
I think the searches they do are ridulous and way out of line with the actual risks (which I think is why they sometimes go ape over the smallist thing. They eventually want to catch a terrorist), but if they are going to do all this inspection at do it right.
Funny story, I have this hunk of magnesium on my key chain. It is firestarter for camping and I've had it on there for about 20 years I'll bet. One day about 2-3 years ago a TSA guy looks at it and asks what it is. I tell him what it is and that its for starting campfires. He brings a boss over and asks him about it. I'm thinking Oh Crap, that was a really bad thing to try to bring on a plane (though I've done it a couple hundred times). I'm in trouble now. The boss looks it over and says, "No problem".
Only time I was ever questioned about before or since. I can't bring shampoo on board but I can bring on something that, should I want to, would burn a hole in the floor.
chop456
11-16-06, 02:42 PM
FlyerTalk has always seemed to be a community of people who feel they're not subject to the same security procedures as everyone else. You'll find plenty of stories like that. They also seem to have a particular disdain for air marshals because they take up seats that would otherwise go to frequent flyers. Boo freakin' hoo.
These people wouldn't have the guts to speak that way to a police officer, but they feel brave doing so to TSA personnel. I suggest rubber band boy try out his smart mouth on a street cop and see how many proctologists it takes to get him his ball back.
Way more scary... (http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/136427,CST-NWS-ntsb15.article) :eek:
grungex
11-16-06, 03:16 PM
Seems to me the guy was in the right. Throwing him in jail over some ******** trumped-up charge? I hope he sues these idiots.
There's no constitutional right to air travel. Shut up and follow the rules and instructions or enjoy your drive.
grungex
11-16-06, 04:00 PM
What rule did the person violate? The TSA and Barney Fife were the ones that failed to follow procedure.
What rule did the person violate? The TSA and Barney Fife were the ones that failed to follow procedure.
If I get pulled over by a cop, I will cheerfully and respectfully comply with his every wish, so long as it does not violate my constitutional rights. But even then I would still maintain a level of civility in my protest. If I don't, I can expect negative results. Cops etc. have hard enough jobs. They shouldn't have to put up with **** from people just because they are doing their job. This guy started bitching about a routine check the first chance he got. I have no doubt that if he would have just been polite and courteous that he would have made his flight.
grungex
11-16-06, 04:30 PM
He rightfully objected to a search that should not have been conducted without his consent, and in violation of procedure. Simply put, they were in the wrong. Support by folks like you of questionable actions by law enforcement simply because they hold the power only makes matters worse.
Ed_Severson
11-16-06, 04:33 PM
There's no constitutional right to air travel.
No, but there is a Constitutional right to travel within the borders of the United States and be secure in your person and papers while doing so.
Let the airlines handle security for their own flights and you'd have a point, but so long as it's the government conducting these searches, the TSA is squashing your Constitutional rights and mine.
cameraman
11-16-06, 05:58 PM
No, but there is a Constitutional right to travel within the borders of the United States and be secure in your person and papers while doing so. Not when you do it using an airline.
Ed_Severson
11-16-06, 06:04 PM
Not when you do it using an airline.
********.
That Constitutional right applies for any and all travel within the United States for a U.S. citizen. The only right a U.S. citizen does not have is boarding the aircraft without the permission of the aircraft's owner, which is not the federal government.
As I've said numerous times before, if the airline wants me to strip naked and do the hokey pokey before I board my flight, there's nothing I can do about that except either comply or find another mode of transportation. The government, on the other hand, has no business telling me where I can go, when I can go there, or what I can take with me. They are a party which has absolutely zero involvement in the transaction at hand.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Try as I might, nowhere can I find the phrase "except when boarding an airplane" in either of those amendments.
cameraman
11-16-06, 06:17 PM
Learn this now. The Constitution is interpreted in the laws of this land. You follow the laws, not the Constitution. Nobody gets thrown in jail for violating the Constitution. The government regulates air travel, the airlines do what the government tells them to do. You don't like it you can mouth off to a TSA agent and go to jail too.
Ed_Severson
11-16-06, 06:25 PM
Or, in other words, "you have the Consitutional rights outlined in this document ... at least until the government decides you don't need them any more."
Tell you what ... if you want to surrender your rights, go right ahead. Pardon me while I hang on to mine.
"Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
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