View Full Version : Need some help from a Hoosier
Andrew Longman
11-21-06, 12:18 PM
Jersey has the highest taxes in the nation and it is totally broke. The government is a complete mess.
One idea being floated to dig out is to lease the three toll roads out to private business and/or to add tolls to the other major highways and privatize those.
Indiana's now private toll road is being held up as the model.
How's that working for you.
extramundane
11-21-06, 12:58 PM
I can't speak for Indiana, but Virginia's been doing the private-public road thing for a while now, and we just recently "sold" off one of the toll roads here in town to an Australian firm. The transaction wasn't that long ago, so it's hard to pass too much judgement, but accounting-wise, things seem to be going fine. Of course, the fact that the road wasn't necessary in the first place and nobody uses it now that it's built will likely make the whole situation worthless as a case study, but at least the Aussies can drive it into the ground more efficiently than the Commonwealth of Virginia.
From the Star. One major project moved forward because of the "sale".
1st Major Move: Fix U.S. 31, from Indy north to South Bend
June 30, 2006 •• 985 words •• ID: ind100835089
A $1.1 billion upgrade of U.S. 31 between Indianapolis and South Bend will be the first major road project to be paid for by the lease of the Indiana Toll Road, Gov. Mitch Daniels said Thursday. Through a series of wire transfers, the state on Thursday received a one-time $3.8 billion payment from an Australian-Spanish consortium that has agreed to take control of the road until 2081. The eight transfers included an additional $160 million or so sitting in existing Toll Road accounts, as well
Spicoli
11-21-06, 02:08 PM
why'd my post disappear? :confused:
why'd my post disappear? :confused:
Try again without the politics.
I can't speak for Indiana, but Virginia's been doing the private-public road thing for a while now, and we just recently "sold" off one of the toll roads here in town to an Australian firm. The transaction wasn't that long ago, so it's hard to pass too much judgement, but accounting-wise, things seem to be going fine. Of course, the fact that the road wasn't necessary in the first place and nobody uses it now that it's built will likely make the whole situation worthless as a case study, but at least the Aussies can drive it into the ground more efficiently than the Commonwealth of Virginia.
You better hope they don't get Australian firms to build your roads.To call Australian highways goat tracks is an insult to goats.:rolleyes: :irked:
spinner26
11-21-06, 05:06 PM
Try again without the politics.
I wanna see it, where can I view it?
As a citizen of the state AND as a truck driver I'll tell ya flat out it SUKS!
Mitch sold this state down the river and as a former and probably still close crony of George's he's the front runner, in lock step with Illinois, to change this country to all toll roads.
to find out about road issues and the like check out ooida.com , it is a trucking related organization but it is the ONLY place you will find out the FACTS about what is going on in Washington and your State capitols regarding road issues.
Like any other site there is stuff you won't care about but check the archives and the like, we're being sold out.
*** FOR CLARIFICATION*** THIS IS NOT JUST A STATE ISSUE IN INDIANA, IT IS A NATIONAL ISSUE, BECOME INFORMED.
Spicoli
11-21-06, 05:24 PM
Try again without the politics.
dude - huh??:confused: . just because soemone says the word "Republican" doesn't necessarily mean bad things, or good things. I don't like the Gubverner, is that political? I didn;t say the tollroad thing sucked or didn;t suck.
My reply was much tamer than Spinners. :( All i said was the jury was still out as the ink is barely dry on the contracts.
Then I advised reading the indystar.com and then perusing the forums at indystar.
spinner's a trucker -a guy directly affected by it. me? i roll in town. not sure i have ever even been on that road.
EVERYTHING in life is politics.:\ (IMHO)
Tony George
11-21-06, 05:25 PM
I wanna see it, where can I view it?
As a citizen of the state AND as a truck driver I'll tell ya flat out it SUKS!
Mitch sold this state down the river and as a former and probably still close crony of George's he's the front runner, in lock step with Illinois, to change this country to all toll roads.
to find out about road issues and the like check out ooida.com , it is a trucking related organization but it is the ONLY place you will find out the FACTS about what is going on in Washington and your State capitols regarding road issues.
Like any other site there is stuff you won't care about but check the archives and the like, we're being sold out.
Do you listen to the Trucking Bozo and/or America's Trucking Network??? The Bozo and his son are all over these issues (IN toll roads and OOIDA).
Andrew Longman
11-21-06, 06:35 PM
From the Star. One major project moved forward because of the "sale".
Unfortunately in Jersey the only thing it will buy is to help pay off the pension(s) of a state employee:rolleyes:
Al Czervik
11-21-06, 06:47 PM
My beef is that the "sale" was sold to the public as the be all and end all of road financing. $4 bil is a lot of money to be given to politicians. So far, everybody has been pretty tame. But, sure as I'm writing this, the money will get wasted on non-road projects. I forsee some worthless rail projects in the next few years, some multi-modal airport bus boondoggle, etc. Then, in about 6 years time, we'll be told that some tax will need to be raised to fund road projects.
Of course, there is also the fact that the Toll Road was sold as a temporary thing in the beginning (should have been a freeway 20 years ago), and the payment of the money is disproportionately placed on the North of the state...
spinner26
11-21-06, 07:05 PM
Do you listen to the Trucking Bozo and/or America's Trucking Network??? The Bozo and his son are all over these issues (IN toll roads and OOIDA).
I have and do occasionally, not a groupie per say but they are very informative shows at times.
I pay closer attention to OOIDA and Landline along with all theother rags that follow the industry.
Sean O'Gorman
11-21-06, 07:05 PM
I think it could work, because, like Indiana, New Jersey is one of those states you'd pay just to get out of.
Of course, there is also the fact that the Toll Road was sold as a temporary thing in the beginning (should have been a freeway 20 years ago), and the payment of the money is disproportionately placed on the North of the state...
Hence they are starting the US31 Interstate project in South Bend. :rolleyes: Tried driving 31 or 431 lately? I do every day. Both are already above traffic capacity thru HamCo, yet that is the last section they plan on doing. :shakehead
I live pretty close to the Toll Road, its still there. :thumbup:
Chicago also did the same thing last year with the Skyway. Didn't prevent it from being under construction nearly on a continuing basis. :thumdown:
Spicoli
11-21-06, 10:16 PM
Hence they are starting the US31 Interstate project in South Bend. :rolleyes: Tried driving 31 or 431 lately? I do every day. Both are already above traffic capacity thru HamCo, yet that is the last section they plan on doing. :shakehead
I HATE that stretch of road. I have to drive 31 north more than any other road outside of indy. inlaws in kokomo, house on lake michigan, ND, etc etc. It sucks.
so why the F do people live up in HamCo in that fubar area????
I think it could work, because, like Indiana, New Jersey is one of those states you'd pay just to get out of.
You know, I actually thought the same thing until I visited south Jersey, which is actually quite nice south of AC. So perhaps you should STFU until you live a little or grow up, whichever comes first. :)
-Kevin
I HATE
so why the F do people live up in HamCo in that fubar area????
A lot less lead flying around in the Northern 'burbs. ;)
chop456
11-22-06, 08:48 AM
Chicago also did the same thing last year with the Skyway. Didn't prevent it from being under construction nearly on a continuing basis. :thumdown:
It's getting better, though. And I-Pass works now. And we get to keep the world's most dangerous McDonald's(TM) :gomer:
I think it could work, because, like Indiana, New Jersey is one of those states you'd pay just to get out of.
Don't laugh - it is true.
Nearly all of the toll bridges run by the Delaware River Joint Toll Bridge Commission are free eastbound (into NJ) and toll westbound (into PA). :laugh:
Back OT, PA is kicking around the same idea.
Al Czervik
11-22-06, 09:12 AM
Hence they are starting the US31 Interstate project in South Bend. :rolleyes: Tried driving 31 or 431 lately? I do every day. Both are already above traffic capacity thru HamCo, yet that is the last section they plan on doing. :shakehead
US 31 is not going to be built to Interstate standards. They're doing SB to Plymouth limited access, re-bypassing hell, er Kokomo, and the last I heard is that Hamilton Co may be a no-go, and the rest stays the same, i.e. lots of grade crossings.
Spicoli
11-22-06, 09:19 AM
US 31 is not going to be built to Interstate standards. They're doing SB to Plymouth limited access, re-bypassing hell, er Kokomo, and the last I heard is that Hamilton Co may be a no-go, and the rest stays the same, i.e. lots of grade crossings.
Kokomo is a funny place. They built a bypass, then moved the whole commerce sorridor to the bypass. You just KNOW that if they build a new one.....
btw - just try to find a locally owned place to eat in Kokomo. chain food heaven.:shakehead
chop456
11-22-06, 09:28 AM
[Insert Applebee's joke here]
Sean O'Gorman
11-22-06, 06:41 PM
btw - just try to find a locally owned place to eat in Kokomo. chain food heaven.:shakehead
Do they serve food at the Hip Hugger? :laugh:
Do they serve food at the Hip Hugger? :laugh:
Christ! Is that dive really that well known?
(Disclaimer: Poster has never even seen the place)
Lizzerd
11-22-06, 10:36 PM
Christ! Is that dive really that well known?
(Disclaimer: Poster has never even seen the place)
Been there, done that, a couple decades ago. After my softball team lost our first game in the semi finals of the double elimination state tourney, we went there for a couple hours and got drunk so we could lose our second game in style. Funny thing is, we almost won that game and would have had to play again that evening, probably after going back for a couple more beers. One thing I remember about the place was that the girls broke a State law, if you know what I mean...
Back on topic, I have a brother that lives a couple miles from the toll road up north. I don't really know why he is so pizzed at the governor, but he says that everybody up that way claims they will lose business, pay higher taxes, etc. I don't get his point, but I'm not on the battle ground, either.
Is the Hip Hugger still open? I haven't been in there for 20+ years.
Lizzerd
11-23-06, 12:48 AM
Don't know. Like I said, I was there a couple decades ago.
Al Czervik
11-23-06, 12:49 AM
Back on topic, I have a brother that lives a couple miles from the toll road up north. I don't really know why he is so pizzed at the governor, but he says that everybody up that way claims they will lose business, pay higher taxes, etc. I don't get his point, but I'm not on the battle ground, either.
Figure the time value of money over 75 years, starting with an upfront payment of $4 bil, and realize that you're the only ones in the state paying for it, and you'll start to understand.
Suggest making the Interstates in Marion Co toll roads, and ship the majority of the money away from area and see how far that gets you.
Lizzerd
11-23-06, 01:01 AM
Figure the time value of money over 75 years, starting with an upfront payment of $4 bil, and realize that you're the only ones in the state paying for it, and you'll start to understand.
Suggest making the Interstates in Marion Co toll roads, and ship the majority of the money away from area and see how far that gets you.
Good point. I wish he would have explained it like that. I guess it sucks then?
Wait a minute... the toll on a state-owned toll road goes to maintain the road right? That would mean less tax money to maintain it, right? Now, the private company pays to maintain the road. But the state gets the money... I'm confused...
Don't know. Like I said, I was there a couple decades ago.
still there, still there (http://www.stripclublist.com/c.asp?c=7918)
Road trip, Bruce? :laugh:
Al Czervik
11-23-06, 10:04 PM
Good point. I wish he would have explained it like that. I guess it sucks then?
Wait a minute... the toll on a state-owned toll road goes to maintain the road right? That would mean less tax money to maintain it, right? Now, the private company pays to maintain the road. But the state gets the money... I'm confused...
You're almost there, except for one thing: Someone has to repay the money that the private company is giving the state. It's coming from tolls, which A) will have to be raised dramitically to give the investors a retrun and B) are payed moreso by the northern part of the state. In effect, those of us up north pay for what everybody else gets for free.
To add insult to injury, the Toll Road money used to be spent within a tight radius of the Toll Road. Now, the money gets sent all over the state. A good deal for everyone except those who have to use the Toll Road.
Lizzerd
11-23-06, 11:30 PM
So... the private company doesn't keep all the toll money? Still :confused:
Spicoli
11-23-06, 11:34 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knhtWzPU-xU
cameraman
11-24-06, 01:04 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knhtWzPU-xU
So exactly how is that related to toll roads?
Not a bad band but still...
Spicoli
11-24-06, 08:37 AM
So exactly how is that related to toll roads?
Not a bad band but still...
they are a french band named phoenix. sort of a new find of mine.
so, it had geography as a theme, and were are talking about indiana toll roads, which is in fact a geographic thing, so there you have it. :)
Napoleon
11-24-06, 08:57 AM
I have read repeatedly it was a big mistake to lease the toll road in NJ.
they are a french band named phoenix. sort of a new find of mine.
how very 2004 of you. :gomer:
Spicoli
12-05-06, 05:11 AM
how very 2004 of you. :gomer:
well, in my world, 2004 is just a year. in *your* world, that's sophmore year, the year you was unflowered, or at least that's what O'Gorman told me.:yuck:
well, in my world, 2004 is just a year. in *your* world, that's sophmore year, the year you was unflowered, or at least that's what O'Gorman told me.:yuck:
1.9
http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/metro/stories/MYSA120906.01A.Tollroads.3546be1.html
@#$# Governer Goodhair.
A new study throws cold water on a long-cherished claim of toll road advocates, surprising some of them, and could redefine a debate over if and how Texas should toll its highways.
For more than a year now, state officials have scared the dickens out of motorists by saying the gas tax would have to go up $1.20 a gallon to build all the roads needed statewide over the next quarter-century.
That would almost triple the 38.4 cents drivers now pay in federal and state fuel taxes. Since that's politically impossible to do, the argument goes, toll roads should be built wherever and whenever feasible.
But now a Texas Transportation Institute study says gas taxes wouldn't have to go up nearly as much.
Just indexing the gas tax to rising construction costs would be enough, the 139-page report says. The extra money could finance bonds through 2030 and pay them all off within five years after that.
Or, to avoid borrowing with bonds, the tax could be increased 12 cents in 2008 and indexed to construction inflation through 2030.
Even if the tax weren't indexed, a flat increase of only 39 cents a gallon would do the same — a far cry from the $1.20 that Texas Department of Transportation officials have maintained would be needed.
Tollroads have been sold as the future of transportation funding here. Dallas & Houston are developing an extensive network of toll roads, 50 year regional transportation plans. There were already a couple here and there, but recently it's becoming a much more common occurrence. Previously, they were to pay for the project itself, but the regional authorities have recently begun funneling revenue to other projects in the region. My use of Dallas North Tollway shouldn't be paying for something all the way out west of Ft. Worth (rates just hiked for this very purpose). Austin just opened a few tollroads and they have plans to install tolls on already paid for highways around the city. That way they can fund even more freeways for all the yankees who keep moving to Austin's suburbs. A few years back in NW Houston they tried to install a toll for a highway already paid for by local tax payers too.
The state also just created the "TxTag" authority, which will end up being an umbrella agency over all toll road authorities, essentially making it a state run business.
Gov aggy put into action the "trans texas corridor" similar to the NJ plan, usurp a quarter million acres of privately held land under eminent domain, give it to a Spanish/Mexican company, let them build it & run it & lease it back to the state. I-35 apparently isn't good enough so there needs to be a 1/4 mile wide swath of highway out in the boonies parallel to I-35 w/ toll roads, trucking lanes, freight rail, utilities, pipelines, and commuter rail (which will never come to fruition).
Think the concrete & construction lobby donated much the past couple of congressional sessions here?
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