View Full Version : New Rules For '07
Standing starts at a few appropriate places. Minimum car weight remains the same but driver weight to be factored in (based on an average), timed races, not distance, to fit TV time, no changes to new car in year #1, extra set of tires so they'll run more in practice. Some interesting stuff. Restrictions on testing and big fines! Uh, oh. (all per MC hisself as fact with Cotman quotes.)
Insomniac
12-11-06, 09:03 AM
Standing starts at a few appropriate places. Minimum car weight remains the same but driver weight to be factored in (based on an average), timed races, not distance, to fit TV time, no changes to new car in year #1, extra set of tires so they'll run more in practice. Some interesting stuff. Restrictions on testing and big fines! Uh, oh. (all per MC hisself as fact with Cotman quotes.)
Isn't that how minimum weight has been handled for a few years now? All races will be timed?
ferrarigod
12-11-06, 09:15 AM
I don't mind timed races. Usually means we get more racing. And we don't look like fools when we can't estimate how many laps we'll get in. Now put things to local yellows(and with starters that will help) and we're ready to go.
Insomniac
12-11-06, 09:29 AM
I don't mind timed races. Usually means we get more racing. And we don't look like fools when we can't estimate how many laps we'll get in. Now put things to local yellows(and with starters that will help) and we're ready to go.
I'm open to it. Would require on the fly strategy at a minimum.
GOFAST1
12-11-06, 09:29 AM
Minimum car weight is not good.Same weight as before?What 's up with that?
Minimum car weight is not good.Same weight as before?What 's up with that?
Yeah, that's disappointing.
Peter Olivola
12-11-06, 10:53 AM
Starter and battery.
Minimum car weight is not good.Same weight as before?What 's up with that?
Boatdesigner
12-11-06, 10:58 AM
I'd like to see them close the pits during full course yellows. As soon as the track is clear, turn 'em loose again. The only ones allowed to stop would be the ones in the accident or who have a major problem, like running out of gas. Then you would have to go to the back of the pack.
More cranes would also be nice, more local yellows and fewer full course yellows, but that isn't a rule change, just better organization. I do like the idea of standing starts though! I was hoping for lighter weight, like they initially proposed for the new car. Can't have everything I guess!
Starter and battery.
That, and the car didn't get dimensionally smaller as they wanted.
:(
No white flag? Advertised timed races? That blows......:thumdown:
Endurance = racing competitors during a set time period
Sprint = racing competitors to set distance regardless of time
I guess I'm a stubborn traditionalist but the smell of endurance racing is a huge turnoff as it relates to these CCWS rules.
DP01 = lateral shift?
diamond dave
12-11-06, 11:28 AM
hate standing starts:thumdown: Do we want to become F1 lite?:irked: the paddle shifters blow too
If the on-board starters lead to less yellows, the timed events might actually give us longer races.
Insomniac
12-11-06, 12:01 PM
I think for me, if the racing is competitive (i.e. passing/battling) then whatever rules they change/make won't matter. I feel like I complain because the actual racing isn't that good and that just leaves pointing out all the other stupid stuff.
jonovision_man
12-11-06, 12:01 PM
Standing starts at a few appropriate places.
What constitutes an "appropriate place"? :) Lots of room to crash in T1?
Cleveland should be a hoot... :D
jono
Andrew Longman
12-11-06, 12:18 PM
What constitutes an "appropriate place"? :) Lots of room to crash in T1?
Cleveland should be a hoot... :D
jono
My thinking too. Perhaps places (Houston?) where they went to a single file start?
BTW Atalntics did a standing start at Cleveland and it worked great.
I'd be careful about messing with Cleveland though. The drama of L1 T1 seems to be a lot of the interest among the locals.
Oh yeah, Cleveland is a given. I think they ought to do a 4-wide grid there, like F-1 of old!:D The weight thing bothers me too but my guess is they really weren't very interested in going much faster if at all. The testing and wind tunnel rules and more track time on race weekends I like. The race time mentioned was 1hr. 40-45 min, depending. (TV is #1. What will we call it, "The Road America 100...Minutes", "The 105 Minutes Of Denver"?) Don't know how happy the top teams are going to be with the testing and spending limits or how it'll be enforced (provisions for $100,000 fines:eek: ) but the potential for "sectarian violence" just increased! Good luck in year 4 of the 5 year plan!:thumbup:
Ray Scar
12-11-06, 01:59 PM
They've been timed races all along to accommodate TV. At least by loudly stating it up front us we avoid a lot of confusion. It might have been better to wait until '08 to eliminate the distance element. With the on-board starters there should be much less yellow and therefore more races will go the distance.
Standing starts are cool, no more "unfair advantages". I doubt they will eliminate the first lap carnage though.
cameraman
12-11-06, 03:57 PM
I'll not miss green flags flying for a field strung out over a quarter mile of track.
And they won't crash at T1 any more than they currently do.
Hell lately they have been having problems just getting to T1.
Every race has been a timed race for quite some time now, they just have been finishing some early. With the addition of the starters (and I would hope a vast decrease in fcy flags) you could well see quite a few more laps turned at any given race.
Of course those little batteries are going to be good for only 2-3 starts (?) so some of those guys are still in deep trouble!;)
cameraman
12-11-06, 04:47 PM
Maybe they can work on getting a new series sponsor
http://www.energizer.com/images/bunny/BnyBigBunny_img.jpg
Insomniac
12-11-06, 05:20 PM
Maybe they can work on getting a new series sponsor
http://www.energizer.com/images/bunny/BnyBigBunny_img.jpg
Better them than Sony!
That's no baloney!:gomer:
Are the starters electric or pneumatic? If they are pneumatic they could be repressurized in the pits.
TorontoWorker
12-12-06, 11:28 PM
Is it safe to post here on this topic?
Are the starters electric or pneumatic? If they are pneumatic they could be repressurized in the pits.
Good question. Everybody seems to think electromechanical on the flywheel instead of pneumatic. Of course, if they went all out with direct injection a start could be acheived with just the right firing order and the fuel pulses...
Is it safe to post here on this topic?
Sure, we don't do melt downs very well. :)
ferrarigod
12-13-06, 09:19 AM
I think some of the complaints about timed races are poor excuses for complaints. In today's TV age, something has to be done to assure a winner and finish in an appropriate time period.
I hope the broadcasts are set at 2.5 hours however. If we are now cutting the broadcasts down to 2 hours and a timed race, I don't think that is very fair to the fans at the track.
The car weight doesn't bother me. We have turbo's and the power to change our boost. Plus with the extra's added, I'm ok with it. I don't know why the wheelbase and such didn't change, but maybe it has to do with a certain oval track needing more of a car to scrub off speed.:D
Andrew Longman
12-13-06, 09:53 AM
They've been timed races all along anyway, at least this way it makes setting the strategy is a bit more meaningful because there is no risk the "rules" will change mid race.
But it also means setting a fuel strategy will be a bit more murcky since it is not as simple as dividing distance by fuel mileage by fuel capacity. More green flag laps not only means poorer fuel mileage but more laps. Should prove interesting.
As for standing starts, I won't miss several yellow flag starts at the beginning of races because drivers won't line up right, but I do like a properly done flying start (even if I haven't seen many lately).
Why no white flag? They throw one now on a time race, no? They do so in endurance racing, no? Maybe I have that wrong.
I'm not that concerned about the size of the car so long as they achieved the goal of getting more downforce from the tunnels to allow for better following/overtaking.
I read somewhere a few months ago that the missed their size design goals due to the need to achieve the needed downforce.
I'm not bothered much by the timed races as we've been doing that part time anyway.
ferrarigod
12-13-06, 03:35 PM
As for standing starts, I won't miss several yellow flag starts at the beginning of races because drivers won't line up right
Exactly.
Why no white flag? They throw one now on a time race, no? They do so in endurance racing, no? Maybe I have that wrong.
Sebring does, as does many others, as well as all in ALMS. Only timed race that I don't believe does is Le Mans, and even that has hazy memories as to what actually occurs.
With age comes wisdom ;)
RHR_Fan
12-14-06, 01:33 PM
Sure, we don't do melt downs very well. :)
I was just about to say the same thing. Even when we try meltdowns, they never turn out! :D
I have to say that the no white flag will be the new rule, IMO, to get used to. Of course any new rule changes will take time to get used to. I don't mind the standing starts and they won't be doing them at all the races. If the standing starts don't work then it might not happen again in '08. I have a feeling 2007 is going to be very much a trial year for CC.
~Nicole
Racing Truth
12-14-06, 08:57 PM
hate standing starts:thumdown: Do we want to become F1 lite?:irked: the paddle shifters blow too
You're kind of backing up Chief here I think. Over at Dolan's, there's been a discussion of it, and that might be what TorontoWorker referred to when discussing meltdowns.
Anyway, yes, becoming a bit, slowly, F1 lite, but haven't we been headed there for awhile (since Pookie maybe?)? I mean, all road/street courses, a focus on high-density population centers, and the like. Aren't we just codifying the inevitable?
Look, the Split is in many ways complete (not settled, complete). The IRL will go on as a somewhat oval-heavy bastardization of old CART, while ChampCar develops into an American bastardization of F1. If it weren't for TG still trying, perhaps (h=ll, maybe he's stopped caring too), to kill CCWS, there would be nothing to fight over.
American OW as existed circa 1990 is dead. In the same way the Roman Empire broke apart in, officially, 476 AD, and left two heirs: Politically- Byzantine/Eastern Roman Empire, Intellectually- The Islamic empires (thank medieval Islamic scholarship for preserving and advancing classical thought). These two parts only resembled the original Empire in superficial ways. When Rome was sacked in 476, a unique era in history was ending.
So it is, though far less important or dramatic, here. Racing historians will likely see 1996 as the end of what we conceived of as US OWR, although other dates solidifying the split could be used. In its place are two entities that will claim to represent the true heritage of OWR, but when combined, come nowhere near the strength, interest, excitement of old CART. Think of this as "The Open-Wheel Dark Age." Who knows how long it will last (if it ever ends) and what will eventually emerge?
You can all thank me for the pointless history lesson.:tony: What can I say, I love antiquity.
Note: Just remember, after the Middle Ages (Dark Ages) came the Renaissance and Enlightenment. History, sporting and otherwise, suggests this need not be permanent. Of course, History has yet to deal with the illogical pit that is US OWR.:shakehead
OK, I'm done now.
TorontoWorker
12-15-06, 09:23 PM
Sure, we don't do melt downs very well. :)
:)
Well on another forum a few people were acting out over white flags of all things as well as other tantums concerning the new rules - so I told them they were all girls and should wear panties and one of them decided I needed to be taken to a woodpile somewhere. :) (If you can't take a joke?) I said he better bring friends and he freaked, (I was serious on that point). 15 or 16 pages of I'll never go to another Champ Car race because of timed races or no last lap white flag etc. Did someone ship large volumes of bad chicken North America wide? I haven't seen this much toilet flushing since the CART court battles. What the h*ll??? Is the off season too short?:laugh:
trauma1
12-15-06, 10:01 PM
the bitch fest over what are really minor changes to me is laughable yet sad, from this isn't wat the old CART was to becoming F1 lite, CART was even f1 lite, with mansell, emmo and the others coming from across the ocean and from s america, japan, , people unable to grasp the concept that oval are money sucking vacums for open wheel racing and CC, earl tired with 100% ovals and it failed, as KK said if people want ovals there is nascar, no matter what rule changes were made it was going to piss people off
SurfaceUnits
12-15-06, 11:13 PM
I have to say that the no white flag will be the new rule, IMO, to get used to.
~NicoleActually, implementing the FIA white flag rule will increase the chance of seeing white flags, multitudinous times. Whereas the old rule was once per race. So you and all other white flag lovers should be giddy with this rule change. :\
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