Bourdais F1 Test [Archive] - Off Camber Forums

jonovision_man

12-11-06, 11:59 AM

Andrew Longman

12-11-06, 12:14 PM

TR isn't terrible, a race seat there means he gets his chance to impress. Then it's a short jump to a Newey-designed Red Bull. :)

I hope he gets it, there's no driver outside of F1 I'd rather see get a chance.

jono

Agreed. At least someone will be able to see his times compared to the other favorites. Assuming he does well, that is good for CC even if he doesn't get a ride. Validates the series. If he does get a ride, even better.

Normally I would not be terribly happy about a driver leaving the series, but he seems very unhappy where he is and that does not generate the love and interest needed in the series by fans and sponsors.

It would also open a top seat for a deserving driver and show other good drivers that CC is a legit place to advance your career (as opposed to a deadend for even a three-time champ).

Of course I'd rather they see it as an end in itself, a la PT, JV

pchall

12-11-06, 01:27 PM

Now Marco Andretti gets to lap at Honda's Jerez test. The honor of CCWS is now at stake -- so all you Seabass haterz just stick some Limburger up your nose and root for Kermit to wax his ***. ;)

rosawendel

12-11-06, 01:52 PM

You can't compare the STR times to the Honda's directly. You really can only compare his times to others that will lap in the same STR; likewise for the Honda.

jonovision_man

12-11-06, 01:54 PM

Normally I would not be terribly happy about a driver leaving the series, but he seems very unhappy where he is and that does not generate the love and interest needed in the series by fans and sponsors.

Really? I never got the impression that he was unhappy in ChampCars. Obviously he'd prefer to be in F1, but seemed happy enough thumping the CCWS field. :)

jono

NismoZ

12-11-06, 03:52 PM

Yeah, but how many years in a row can he stand being so damn happy!? Maybe he should take a year off and become depressed in F-1 then come back to the US and get a huge raise, say at Roush Racing?:D

NismoZ

12-11-06, 07:54 PM

Berger is saying, "At the end of the day we'll choose the one who will be quickest in our car." I know Sebastian has the blessing from King Carl to go do the test but I wonder if he's "chosen" does he get to go? No N/H contract yet for '07, or would it be a buyout situation? Berger says he'd "...like to give him a chance and get some idea of where he is. He has been doing very well in the States and I'd like to see where his potential is." :shakehead. Maybe Haas is ready to unload a big contract so he can pay Rahal. Scott Speed to CC, IF...?

(Autosport says "sources" indicate Bourdais is contracted to N/H for '07 but it includes an out clause if he is offered an F-1 seat.)

NismoZ

12-11-06, 11:01 PM

Now reading where Bourdais has signed with Nicolas Todt (son of Jean) as his manager. Says he will race in CC in '07 but is open to F-1 offers after that.

formulaben

12-12-06, 12:13 AM

Now reading where Bourdais has signed with Nicolas Todt (son of Jean) as his manager.

That tells me it's a done deal, assuming he is quick enough.

Andrew Longman

12-12-06, 10:11 AM

My understanding, read it somewhere I don't recall, that his contract has an out/buyout should he get an F1 ride.

Jono, he certainly didn't seem that overjoyed accepting his third V cup and I think he is finding the whole PT thing tiresome. While PT seems to thrive on that sort of attention, SB seems annoyed by PT and getting attention because they have tangled again.

jonovision_man

12-12-06, 11:13 AM

My understanding, read it somewhere I don't recall, that his contract has an out/buyout should he get an F1 ride.

Probably here:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/55984

Bourdais is currently contracted to Newman-Haas for next season, but sources have revealed that he has an option in his deal that would allow him to switch to F1 if he was offered a race seat.

Jono, he certainly didn't seem that overjoyed accepting his third V cup and I think he is finding the whole PT thing tiresome. While PT seems to thrive on that sort of attention, SB seems annoyed by PT and getting attention because they have tangled again.

I'm sure he's frustrated at times. And he has little left to prove now that he's won the championship over and over... I just didn't think he was "very" unhappy. :) He's always seemed quite resigned to his fate as not being in F1, and CCWS is a pretty good gig compared to the alternatives.

That being said, looking a few years down the road... if this F1 thing doesn't work out, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to race at and win Le Mans sometime in the not-so-distant future rather than doing another 10 seasons of ChampCars.

jono

Andrew Longman

12-12-06, 11:27 AM

That being said, looking a few years down the road... if this F1 thing doesn't work out, I wouldn't be surprised to see him go to race at and win Le Mans sometime in the not-so-distant future rather than doing another 10 seasons of ChampCars.

jono

That's my feeling too. Between his age and a desire for new challanges, I don't see him coming back to CC if F1 doesn't work out. And he already drives sportscars.

oddlycalm

12-12-06, 02:23 PM

My best guess is if he does leave he'll be back at some point. He has close associations in the series and the DP01 and the young drivers will further change the series significantly. It will become a bit more level, the drivers will continue to develop and new talent will arrive. If he left for 5yrs and returned my guess is that he would find very stiff competition. Things rarely stand still.

This may not be the series I'd wish for but rather the series that's possible under current conditions. What they have done in a short time is impressive and given the increasing momentum what they will have in 5yrs will be very different from today. At some point I think it would become irresistible for Bourdais to return. That in and of itself would be a great plotline.

oc

jonovision_man

12-12-06, 08:26 PM

That's my feeling too. Between his age and a desire for new challanges, I don't see him coming back to CC if F1 doesn't work out. And he already drives sportscars.

I'd say it's 10% he'll be in F1 in 2007, 89% he'll be in CCWS, and 1% he'll be somewhere else. :)

2008 and beyond, the odds change, but right now he's under contract to NH and I believe from what I've read his only out clause would be for an F1 ride.

jono

Cam

12-12-06, 09:16 PM

Gerhard wants money... Seabass brings none. Ride or No Ride?

No Ride! :gomer:

jonovision_man

12-13-06, 10:06 AM

I'd say it's 10% he'll be in F1 in 2007, 89% he'll be in CCWS, and 1% he'll be somewhere else. :)

2008 and beyond, the odds change, but right now he's under contract to NH and I believe from what I've read his only out clause would be for an F1 ride.

jono

Just read on Autosport that this is for 2008 consideration, not 2007.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/55999

jono

Cam

12-13-06, 01:34 PM

3 seconds off the pace. Not too bad considering.

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:19.467 112
.
.
.
.
16. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Cosworth (B) 1:21.843 65
17. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Cosworth (B) 1:22.521 80

12-13-06, 01:47 PM

Champ Car champion Sebastien Bourdais ended the day at the bottom of the timesheets after completing 80 laps for Scuderia Toro Rosso.

The Frenchman was seven tenths of a second slower than teammate Vitantonio Liuzzi.
Eighty laps, and DFL?!? How is that "not too bad, considering"?

What am I failing to consider?:confused:

Cam

12-13-06, 01:52 PM

Eighty laps, and DFL?!? How is that "not too bad, considering"?

What am I failing to consider?:confused:

Maybe I should have put more emphasis onm the too? :gomer: Remember it is a frickin' Minardi.

NismoZ

12-13-06, 03:23 PM

Consider Toro Rosso Cosworth...think he'd be faster in a Team Ferrari? Wonder how he'd do testing for Coyne?

ferrarigod

12-13-06, 03:41 PM

I hope Scott Speed, if he's also at the test, smokes him.

Scott Speed smokes pole.

Vitantonio wiped Speeds clock clean. Thanks Danny Sullivan, you did find a 'Murican hero.

Insomniac

12-13-06, 03:43 PM

Scott Speed smokes pole.

Vitantonio wiped Speeds clock clean. Thanks Danny Sullivan, you did find a 'Murican hero.

Yeah, he was faster most of the time, but Speed wasn't that far off.

Andrew Longman

12-13-06, 04:33 PM

One thing that was said about Zanardi's trouble are Williams was getting used to grooved tires. I'm not sure what the issue was but could that be a factor here between SB and the other Toro Rosso?

trauma1

12-13-06, 04:37 PM

One thing that was said about Zanardi's trouble are Williams was getting used to grooved tires. I'm not sure what the issue was but could that be a factor here between SB and the other Toro Rosso?

1st its toro and the old cossie v-10, crappy team crappy results, wnder if he is getting the jaguar franchetti treatment, when they gave him a snail for a car

jonovision_man

12-13-06, 05:27 PM

Maybe I should have put more emphasis onm the too? :gomer: Remember it is a frickin' Minardi.

The only comparission that's relevant is to Liuzzi, and even that comparisson may not be that relevant depending on what each was testing... but it looks at first blush to be a respectable outing for Bourdais.

jono

jonovision_man

12-14-06, 11:40 AM

Good interview on Autosport:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56016

ChampCar gets a lot of mentions and he compares it quite favourably to F1 actually. Top speed, braking, none of it impressed him that much. :) As you'd probably expect, he makes it sound like the ChampCar is much more of a beast just to drive, whereas the challenge in F1 is finding the last few tenths on your competition.

jono

12-14-06, 01:20 PM

Sebastien Bourdais completed his second day of testing with Toro Rosso and was noticeably faster than yesterday (about a second quicker than his best lap on Wednesday). The Frenchman was only 25 thousandths of a second slower than Scott Speed, the other STR driver in action today.

stink, er, link
(http://f1.racing-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/061214180501.shtml)

ferrarigod

12-14-06, 01:45 PM

Yeah, he was faster most of the time, but Speed wasn't that far off.

He did do better than I thought. I thought he would be much more of a chicane than he ended up being.

That being said, he's not the second coming of Phil Hill.

trauma1

12-14-06, 02:46 PM

final times

11. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:20.194 100
12. Panis Toyota (B) 1:20.400 27
13. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:20.440 95
14. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:20.726 114
15. Ammermuller Red Bull-Ferrari (B) 1:20.737 61
16. Liuzzi Toro Rosso -Cosworth (B) 1:21.508 41
17. Bourdais Toro Rosso -Cosworth (B) 1:21.517 79
18. Hirate Toyota (B) 1:22.028 34
19. Speed Toro Rosso-Cosworth (B) 1:22.435 21

Cam

12-14-06, 02:53 PM

What?!?! Are they making the timing up as they go? Look at the article once and they change it an hour later... Is IMS running the show? :tony:

cameraman

12-14-06, 03:03 PM

When will Toro Rosso start testing the 2007 engines?

trauma1

12-14-06, 03:29 PM

When will Toro Rosso start testing the 2007 engines?

after the launch of the new car

cameraman

12-14-06, 03:52 PM

Okay, so have they announced when they are going to launch the new car?

pchall

12-14-06, 04:16 PM

Still major suckage with Toro Rosso

Leading times (December 14) - Jerez:

1. Pedro de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes 1min 19.107secs 75 laps
2. Jarno Trulli Toyota-Toyota 1min 19.470secs 93 laps
3. James Rossiter Honda-Honda 1min 19.548secs 117 laps
4. Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes 1min 19.587secs 76 laps
5. Christian Klien Honda-Honda 1min 19.702secs 109 laps
6. Felipe Massa Ferrari-Ferrari 1min 19.728secs 80 laps
7. Luca Badoer Ferrari-Ferrari 1min 19.761secs 75 laps
8. Heikki Kovalainen Renault-Renault 1min 19.810secs 110 laps
9. Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber-BMW 1min 19.940secs 120 laps
10. Giancarlo Fisichella Renault-Renault 1min 20.068secs 69 laps
11. Robert Kubica BMW Sauber-BMW 1min 20.187secs 99 laps
12. Kohei Hirate Toyota-Toyota 1min 20.423secs 32 laps
13. Kazuki Nakajima Williams-Toyota 1min 20.443secs 97 laps
14. Takuma Sato Super Aguri-Honda 1min 20.726secs 108 laps
15. Michael Ammermuller Red Bull-Ferrari 1min 20.737secs 59 laps
16. Olivier Panis Toyota-Toyota 1min 21.269secs 25 laps
17. Vitantonio Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Cosworth 1min 21.506secs 42 laps
18. Scott Speed Toro Rosso-Cosworth 1min 21.514secs 22 laps
19. Sebastien Bourdais Toro Rosso-Cosworth 1min 21.520secs 79 laps

Insomniac

12-14-06, 04:30 PM

He did do better than I thought. I thought he would be much more of a chicane than he ended up being.

That being said, he's not the second coming of Phil Hill.

I agree, but it's nice to have an American in F1 again and I'd prefer he didn't get bounced so fast.

cameraman

12-14-06, 04:37 PM

All three drivers are within 0.014 seconds. Sounds like the team cars are comparable and it does not matter that they are slower than everybody else. Nobody else is running a Cossie V10. We have no idea how those mills are set up, are they limiting revs to save wear & tear? Nobody outside of Toro Rosso knows.

What matters is Bourdais is equal to the people who have been driving those cars all year.

Cam

12-14-06, 05:01 PM

When will Toro Rosso start testing the 2007 engines?

End of January? (http://www.f1racing.net/en/news.php?newsID=136167) Maybe.

jonovision_man

12-15-06, 11:34 AM

Autosport has the following for Dec 14, not sure why the difference:

Pos Driver Team Time Laps
1. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.109 75
2. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:19.480 92
3. Rossiter Honda (B) 1:19.549 117
4. Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.589 78
5. Klien Honda (B) 1:19.705 112
6. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:19.730 80
7. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:19.780 76
8. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:19.824 110
9. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.933 121
10. Fisichella Renault (B) 1:20.073 68
11. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:20.194 100
12. Panis Toyota (B) 1:20.423 40
13. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:20.440 95
14. Sato Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:20.726 114
15. Ammermuller Red Bull-Ferrari (B) 1:20.737 61
16. Liuzzi Toro Rosso-Cosworth (B) 1:21.514 40
17. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Cosworth (B) 1:21.539 78
18. Hirate Toyota (B) 1:22.031 31
19. Speed Toro Rosso-Cosworth (B) 1:22.455 21

Bourdais is nipping at Liuzzi and putting the boots to Speed? Speed did fewer laps, but Bourdais is really holding his own in a car he's only been in for a couple of days.

jono

jonovision_man

12-15-06, 12:07 PM

More...

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/56025

And although Bourdais has insisted that he will see out his contract with Newman-Haas in America next year, his consistent speed at Jerez has shown what he is capable of in F1.

Toro Rosso team boss Franz Tost has said that no decision has been taken about drivers - and claimed that the situation was still wide open.

"The driver line-up will be decided by (team owners) Dietrich Mateschitz and Gerhard Berger, and I assume it will be in the new year," Tost told autosport.com.

"We will test drivers until then and we will see where we are. The driver choice is still very open – and by that I mean both seats."

jono

12-15-06, 01:28 PM

Sebastien Bourdais completed his three-day test at Toro Rosso, the Frenchman gradually improving his pace to set a competitive fastest lap of 1.21.277.

Jerez - 15/12/06
1. L. Hamilton - McLaren - 1'19"493 (+0"000) - 100 laps
2. H.
Kovalainen - Renault - 1'19"586 (+0"093) - 92 laps
3. G. Fisichella - Renault - 1'19"798 (+0"305) - 109 laps
4. C. Klien - Honda - 1'19"835 (+0"342) - 121 laps
5. R. Kubica - BMW Sauber - 1'19"894 (+0"401) - 125 laps
6. L. Badoer - Ferrari - 1'19"899 (+0"406) - 38 laps
7. S. Vettel - BMW Sauber - 1'20"069 (+0"576) - 117 laps
8. V. Liuzzi - Red Bull - 1'20"191 (+0"698) - 72 laps
9. T. Sato - Super Aguri - 1'20"854 (+1"361) - 114 laps
10. M. Gené - Ferrari - 1'21"015 (+1"522) - 98 laps
11. S. Bourdais - Toro Rosso - 1'21"277 (+1"784) - 100 laps
12. A. Wurz - Williams - 1'21"368 (+1"875) - 64 laps
13. M. Andretti - Honda - 1'21"888 (+2"395) - 67 laps
14. S. Speed - Toro Rosso - 1'23"315 (+3"822) - 14 laps
-- F. Alonso – McLaren – No recorded lap times.

trauma1

12-15-06, 01:30 PM

from grand prix
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns17864.html

and pitpasses response
http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=30193

jonovision_man

12-15-06, 02:09 PM

11. S. Bourdais - Toro Rosso - 1'21"277 (+1"784) - 100 laps

...

13. M. Andretti - Honda - 1'21"888 (+2"395) - 67 laps

Ouch! :eek:

jono

oddlycalm

12-15-06, 03:23 PM

NismoZ

12-15-06, 03:42 PM

So, you believe Ralfie doesn't earn every bit of his 22.5 mil?

jonovision_man

12-15-06, 03:51 PM

For a guy that hasn't driven and F1 car since 2002 his final day times look good.

They sure do... to be matching and beating the times of the guys who have been in those cars all year is sweet stuff indeed. Sure hope this gets the attention of whoever can get the man a ride!

jono

NismoZ

12-15-06, 04:33 PM

So, how then would you rate a 19 yr. old with FAR less experience who was within .6 in his first F-1 drive ever? (2 secs. off Honda pace?)

Andrew Longman

12-15-06, 05:00 PM

The 2 seconds off the other Honda is the relevant part and on the face of it doesn't look that good. But with only one day experience in the car (or type of car) it is hard to judge.

Jervis Tetch 1

12-15-06, 09:46 PM

Ouch! :eek:

jonoAgree!

jonovision_man

12-16-06, 10:14 AM

So, how then would you rate a 19 yr. old with FAR less experience who was within .6 in his first F-1 drive ever? (2 secs. off Honda pace?)

The Honda is a much much better car than the TR.

That being said, Marco only had one day in the car, not enough time to show what he's capable of. Not sure what the point of a 1-day test is, it's a bit of a joke.

jono

NismoZ

12-16-06, 12:46 PM

It was just one of those Honda "gifts" for one of it's loyalists. They've been doing that for awhile but I have to believe they really are keeping an eye on Marco.

jonovision_man

12-16-06, 02:53 PM

It was just one of those Honda "gifts" for one of it's loyalists. They've been doing that for awhile but I have to believe they really are keeping an eye on Marco.

They should be, he's had flashes of brilliance in between his rookie mistakes and over-exhuberance... he's confident (cocky in fact) and best of all, he's got a heck of a last name. :) But I expect they'd be a little hesitant to hand him an F1 ride without doing more time on road courses, maybe GP2... or ... ChampCar? :D Probably not.

jono

Dr. Corkski

12-16-06, 05:01 PM

The smart move would be for Toyota to replace Ralph with Bourdais. They would move up in the standings as well as save themselves most of the millions they are throwing away. At least Bourdais has the testicular fortitude to pass another car on the track. For a guy that hasn't driven and F1 car since 2002 his final day times look good.

ocThe smart move would be for you to check your facts. :gomer:

2005
6 R. Schumacher Toyota Michelin 45
7 J. Trulli Toyota Michelin 43

2006
10 R. Schumacher Toyota Bridgestone 20
12 J. Trulli Toyota Bridgestone 15

chop456

12-16-06, 05:17 PM

I have to believe they really are keeping an eye on Marco.

I have to believe someone slipped something in your Egger. :D

Why in the hell would they give him even the slightest consideration for a test seat, let alone a race seat? He came from a nothing series to another nothing series. An F3000 runner up (Bourdais) can't get a sniff, yet the never-was son of a washout will?

ferrarigod

12-16-06, 06:59 PM

Bourdais, who took part during all three days of the test but has ruled himself out of contention for a seat in 2007, actually set a faster lap than both STR regulars Vitantonio Liuzzi and Scott Speed.

The Frenchman was even entrusted with the majority of the team's test load on the final day when Speed was forced to pull out with an injured hand and completed more than a hundred laps.

What is going on with these testing times? someone's playing around with this, cause some sources say he is faster than both, but on some he is only faster than Speedy the last 2 days.

Anyone have a clue?

Either way, congrats Seabass, I hope you get your F1 ride next year.

12-16-06, 07:04 PM

An F3000 runner up (Bourdais) can't get a sniffHe wizzed off someone, got caught in the hayloft, perhaps?:gomer:

Serously, I think he got blacklisted, but the threepeet must've gave him some forgiveness.

It's either that, or, I'm wrong.

JT265

12-16-06, 11:21 PM

I have to believe someone slipped something in your Egger. :D

Why in the hell would they give him even the slightest consideration for a test seat, let alone a race seat? He came from a nothing series to another nothing series. An F3000 runner up (Bourdais) can't get a sniff, yet the never-was son of a washout will?

Don't be so bitter Chopper. I'm only one failed drug test away from you being elevated to champ. :tony:

:rofl:

SurfaceUnits

12-17-06, 05:05 AM

Not to worry, you will have ample opportunity for head to head comparison when Marco is driving a DP01 with an Acura badged Kosworth :eek: the '07 season better begin soon or the champ car faithful will run out of piss for their pissing matches.

Insomniac

12-17-06, 10:42 AM

He wizzed off someone, got caught in the hayloft, perhaps?:gomer:

Serously, I think he got blacklisted, but the threepeet must've gave him some forgiveness.

It's either that, or, I'm wrong.

When will people learn, if you want to get into F1, a good way is to have Flavio be your manager.

Accipiter

12-21-06, 06:05 PM

Sebass possibly to STR in '08 according to Berger:

"He is definitely in the frame for 2008," Berger told autosport.com. "But not for 2007, as he has a contract. I would like him to honor that, absolutely.

"I think he did a bloody good job," Berger added. "He delivered what I had expected of him and he is a good, talented driver. I have followed his recent performances and have seen for a while that he was doing a good job in the States."

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/34509/

NismoZ

12-21-06, 06:14 PM

Yes, it was nice someone noticed he was doing a "good" job in The States.:shakehead

cameraman

12-21-06, 06:33 PM

You were expecting him to say supercalifragilisticexpialidocious?

formulaben

12-21-06, 08:55 PM

Sebass possibly to STR in '08 according to Berger:

I'm not so sure he won't be there in '07. Since when do F1 team managers honor contracts?!

12-21-06, 11:48 PM

I'm not so sure he won't be there in '07. Since when do F1 team managers honor contracts?!If a top-tier team offered him a contract, he would (rightfully!) be gone. Until then, he is "under contract".

Arffin brilliant, if anyone's asking.