Rolex 24

[Sean O'Gorman]

First hour live on FOX, as advertised during the NFC championship game.

Irrelevant my ass. :p

[Spicoli]

Good thing there's no football on today. :gomer:

[pchall]

Expect an hour of puff pieces on NASCRAP drivers participating in Grand Am.

[FCYTravis]

Expect an hour of puff pieces on NASCRAP drivers participating in Grand Am.

You're probably right. But network TV time is network TV time. It's a big step forward for the series, no matter which way you slice it.

[pchall]

You're probably right. But network TV time is network TV time. It's a big step forward for the series, no matter which way you slice it.

If it draws any NASCAR fan eyeballs they'll think it is a CoT road racing test.

[NismoZ]

BIG ads on the NFL game today...Jeff Gordon, Tony Stewart, Sam Hornish, Helio Castro Neves...Gee, names that have made the Grand Am great!:shakehead

[Sean O'Gorman]

Well, they could always try advertising the cars, that has worked well for sports car racing...

[Ed_Severson]

First hour live on FOX, as advertised during the NFC championship game.

Irrelevant my ass. :p

Just wondering ... you think they're airing the first 90 minutes of the Rolex because they want to or because the NASCAR cartel told 'em they had to?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Did the NASCAR cartel tell them to advertise the event on air during the NFC conference game, commercials, on FX, etc. too?

Something tells me this isn't the usual ALMS or Champ Car style time buy.

[extramundane]

Did the NASCAR cartel tell them to advertise the event on air during the NFC conference game, commercials, on FX, etc. too?

Something tells me this isn't the usual ALMS or Champ Car style time buy.

So you're a "Media Insider" now too? :rofl:

[Ed_Severson]

Something tells me this isn't the usual ALMS or Champ Car style time buy.

Ditto that. We don't hold anybody hostage ...

[devilmaster]

Did the NASCAR cartel tell them to advertise the event on air during the NFC conference game, commercials, on FX, etc. too?

well, ummm....

If they paid for advertising, then yes, the nascar cartel did tell them to advertise the event braniac. :laugh:

[Ed_Severson]

Subtle:


Ditto that. We don't hold anybody hostage ...

Not so much:


well, ummm....

If they paid for advertising, then yes, the nascar cartel did tell them to advertise the event braniac. :laugh:

:laugh:

[Sean O'Gorman]

So you're a "Media Insider" now too? :rofl:

Champ Car, ALMS: On NBC, CBS, etc. But never advertised.

Grand-Am, NASCAR, etc.: on FOX, ESPN, etc. and advertised during major events.

Again, I don't see this as a time buy.

[FCYTravis]

Ditto that. We don't hold anybody hostage.
HAHA. Only in ChampCarFantasyLand would a business relationship that results in the promotion of a partner series be termed a hostage situation.

Please present some evidence that NASCAR put a gun to FOX's head and said "Run Grand-Am or else." Until then, this is nothing more than a TrackForumesque troll. "Well gee, I heard from somebody that Kevin Kalkhoven is a space alien who wants to take over the Earth. I can't prove it, but that's what I heard."

[Spicoli]

HAHA. Only in ChampCarLand would a business relationship that results in the promotion of a partner series be termed a hostage situation.


:thumbup: :laugh:

[cameraman]

Again, I don't see this as a time buy.

Wow, the Grand Am koolaid is even stronger than the IRL stuff:shakehead

[extramundane]

Champ Car, ALMS: On NBC, CBS, etc. But never advertised.

Grand-Am, NASCAR, etc.: on FOX, ESPN, etc. and advertised during major events.

Again, I don't see this as a time buy.

No, not a time buy, but the suggestion that the Fox coverage was garnered on its own merit, rather than as an asterisk on Fox's NASCAR contract, seems a bit optimistic.

Anyway, wake me up when a series other than NASCAR is getting tangible network ratings...

[FCYTravis]

Anyway, wake me up when a series other than NASCAR is getting tangible network ratings...
Agreed.

[Ziggy]

Nothing says big time sports car racing like a bunch of NAPCAR drivers........

when do they start playing poker?????????? cause Im so there

[rabbit]

The only reason this race is relevant is because of the drivers it draws from other series. How many Grand Am regulars were featured in the commercial? Zero. Zilch. Nada. How many fans will tune in to watch Grand Am the rest of the season because of what they see in that one hour of Fox coverage? Zero. Zilch. Nada. (See also: 500, Indy.)

[Ed_Severson]

HAHA. Only in ChampCarFantasyLand would a business relationship that results in the promotion of a partner series be termed a hostage situation.

Funny how you played the fantasy card there and then totally ignored the fact that NASCAR is entirely propping Grand-Am up on its own. :tony:


Please present some evidence that NASCAR put a gun to FOX's head and said "Run Grand-Am or else." Until then, this is nothing more than a TrackForumesque troll. "Well gee, I heard from somebody that Kevin Kalkhoven is a space alien who wants to take over the Earth. I can't prove it, but that's what I heard."

Sorry, Trav ... no offense, but I really don't give two ***** about Grand-Am either way, and investigative journalism isn't nearly as fun as my present line of work. I'm not going to go out and query financial records and file Freedom of Information requests just because some dude with a boner for Daytona Prototypes and an itchy trigger finger called me a troll over the internets. :laugh:

Believe whatever you want. Sean seems to think that because the 24 Hours was advertised during the NFC Championship, it's somehow more relevant than, for example, Champ Car or ALMS, which weren't advertised. I disagree. The fact that it was advertised when it was does not make it "relevant" ... it simply means that somebody (I'll let you figure out who "somebody" might be, since you're all about the Geraldo Rivera gig today) has enough money to make Fox ignore whether it is or isn't relevant.

If you really think that Fox aired the commercial, and is airing the 24 Hours, because gosh darn it, they just love Grand-Am racing and want the whole world to know about it, good for you. I'll stick by the more likely scenario of NASCAR cutting Fox an enormous check and/or telling them to air Grand-Am or their Cup deal gets it.

[TKGAngel]

it simply means that somebody (I'll let you figure out who "somebody" might be, since you're all about the Geraldo Rivera gig today) has enough money to make Fox ignore whether it is or isn't relevant.

Or...NASCAR (via ISC) paid for the ad spot and decided to slip a GrandAm ad creative in. No threats about revoking the coverage, just a simple creative instruction.

No need to put on the tinfoil hats and claim conspiracy.


The only reason this race is relevant is because of the drivers it draws from other series. How many Grand Am regulars were featured in the commercial? Zero. Zilch. Nada. How many fans will tune in to watch Grand Am the rest of the season because of what they see in that one hour of Fox coverage? Zero. Zilch. Nada. (See also: 500, Indy.)

Word. Look at the SpeedNews coverage. Its all about Jeffy and Jimmy and Juan Pablo Montoya. They only throw a Hurley Haywood or a Wayne Taylor in to make the GrandAm diehards feel good.

[Ed_Severson]

No need to put on the tinfoil hats and claim conspiracy.

Nobody's claiming conspiracy. It's fairly-well documented how NASCAR does business -- by force. I'm just applying their SOP to this situation because it fits.

[extramundane]

Nobody's claiming conspiracy. It's fairly-well documented how NASCAR does business -- by force. I'm just applying their SOP to this situation because it fits.

I doubt there was much force in this case. My guess is that, built into Fox's NASCAR contract, there is language that requires them to carry X hours of non-Nextel/Busch programming of NASCAR's choosing. For Fox, this is little different than running a 2-hour lifestyle-fluff piece. It's neither a great victory for the DP racing concept, nor grand proof of the Daytona Beach Mafia Conspiracy.

I learnt it all from Johnny Defender's "Media Insiding for Dummies!" :tony:

[Sean O'Gorman]

I'm not saying that this is proof that Grand-Am can stand on its own merits, just that every other road racing series sucks when it comes to promotion. :gomer:

[Andrew Longman]

It is also likely that Fox, having paid a bizzillion dollars for NASCAR programming (and add Speed in there too) is looking to squeeze everything they can out of it. If the Cup guys were racing soap box derbies you can bet Fox would put it on Speed.

As an aside, who is paiding for the Mickey Waltrip show? Toyota? Mickey? NAPA? Fox? NASCAR?

[FCYTravis]

Funny how you played the fantasy card there and then totally ignored the fact that NASCAR is entirely propping Grand-Am up on its own. :tony:
That's your fantasyland belief.

You see, there's enough people paying Grand-Am to race in their series to make it profitable. 105 Koni Challenge cars. 70+ Rolex Series cars. All at entry fees of a couple grand per race with two drivers apiece. That adds up pretty damn quick. Then throw in the broadcast rights money (SPEED *pays* Grand-Am to air the telecasts, whether you want to believe that or not), the sanctioning fees (Grand-Am does not self-promote any races, period) the sponsorships from Pontiac, SunTrust, etc... and you've got plenty of money rolling in to keep the series operating.

Whether or not anyone ever pays attention to Grand-Am, GARRA is self-sufficient because people are interested in racing there. Hell, there's more paid road-racing drives in Grand-Am than any other series in America by a factor of several times. Unlike another series, whose motto is "in God we trust, all others bring cash" and whose confirmed driver count leaves fingers to spare on one hand.

[cameraman]

Travis, I went to the Utah Grand Am race as a spectator, so did about eleven other people. I don't know how GA's finances work but I can absolutely guarantee you that ticket sales didn't generate enough money to cover the diesel bill from the track sweepers. The crowd was a tenth of the ALMS crowd and it wasn't 108 in the shade. GA is surviving, great for you but don't think that your TV package would be anything like what it is if GA's ownership wasn't the same as NASCAR.

[NismoZ]

All well and good and a bunch of stuff I never even thought about...But I was simply disappointed and sort of disgusted by an ad that I, as a fan of sportscar racing and it's history, including the Daytona 24 hrs., could find NOTHING and NOBODY to relate to. Sam Hornish? Good LORD! The best thing I've heard so far is Graham Rahal teaming with EFR! Now there's a story. Usually mention is made of past heroes and/or former (and multiple) winners. Aren't there about 21 of 'em in this year's field? Sure, but SAM and Tony are going to be there!

[FCYTravis]

I'm not particularly thrilled about the way the promotion went on FOX either - but to be honest, which is going to get more people to watch: "Hey, look at Jeff Gordon race in the Rolex 24" or "Hey, look at <insert sports car driver who nobody's ever heard of here> race in the Rolex 24?"

NismoZ, I'm a fan of sportscar racing and its history, too. But there aren't enough of us to count anymore. The fact of the matter is, road racing has become irrelevant in the motorsports marketplace, drawing nothing better than test-pattern ratings anywhere. If it takes pimping a few NASCAR drivers to get people to watch it and maybe, just maybe get them to watch more of it, that's better than pretending that there are enough road racing fans to matter.

Hard truth, but it's the truth. And of course, we all know why this has happened... he had visions. :(

[oddlycalm]

You see, there's enough people paying Grand-Am to race in their series to make it profitable.... Travis, you seem like a nice guy and I'm happy that you've managed to become involved in the racing world, but after 30yrs in business I don't buy your explanation of self-levitation.

In summary you are contending that entry fees, TV revenue and sponsorship are sufficient to fund Grand Am. Let me pose a question for you. If there is no significant audience at the track (which is the case), and if there isn't any significant TV audience (also the case) then there is, by definition, zero sponsor value. Why then are there any sponsors at all and why does the network pay to broadcast the races to, ummm, nobody? Why would a track promote such a race, knowing there will be close to zero revenue from ticket sales? Entry fees are fine, but I doubt they cover the prize money and there is simply no way that entry fees alone are floating that boat.

If you want to be taken seriously I'd suggest you leave the "self-supporting" stuff out of the discussion because it's an unwinnable position. Only those still believing in Santa and the Tooth Fairy will accept it.

oc

[Redwing]

Selling sports cars to NASCAR fans and NASCAR drivers to sports car fans and ALL of it to football fans. How is this going to be successful?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Entry fees are fine, but I doubt they cover the prize money and there is simply no way that entry fees alone are floating that boat.

Why not? Every amateur road racing series in the U.S. makes it on entry fees alone. Maybe the reason Grand-Am can pull this off while other road racing series dont, is because they pull in consistant 20-30 car DP and GT fields, as well as 80-100 Koni Challenge cars per event.

It really surprises me how after all these years, so many people here still think road racing is about the fans.

[Easy]

Why not? Every amateur road racing series in the U.S. makes it on entry fees alone. Maybe the reason Grand-Am can pull this off while other road racing series dont, is because they pull in consistant 20-30 car DP and GT fields, as well as 80-100 Koni Challenge cars per event.

It really surprises me how after all these years, so many people here still think road racing is about the fans.


The ALMS used to be For the Fans but now its World Class. I guess the two are mutually exclusive.

[devilmaster]

It really surprises me how after all these years, so many people here still think road racing is about the fans.

It really surprises me how after all these years, and all these stupid Grand Am threads that you start, that you still think GA is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

[FCYTravis]

In summary you are contending that entry fees, TV revenue and sponsorship are sufficient to fund Grand Am. Let me pose a question for you. If there is no significant audience at the track (which is the case), and if there isn't any significant TV audience (also the case) then there is, by definition, zero sponsor value. Why then are there any sponsors at all?
Remember all those B2B sponsorships that Champ Car had? That's how Grand-Am sponsorships mostly work right now. GAINSCO sets up suites, throws a party for their agents, gives them garage tours and gets them going to sell auto insurance to drunk drivers - sorry, "high-risk clients." :laugh: The GAINSCO people are plenty happy about it - though still small, the company is profitable and grew by double-digits last year (like CART was, it's a publicly traded company, so go look at the 10Ks for AMEX:GAN if you don't believe my PR shilling about it. You can even find out exactly how much we're getting paid.) It's a real sponsorship package, activated through at-track events and a new show-car program. This is not some Sonny's BBQ or Indeck deal that comes with a sidepod sticker and not much else.

SunTrust, same deal - their high-dollar clients get wined and dined at the track. Now Ruby Tuesdays, that sponsorship is actually a B2C marketing package.


why does the network pay to broadcast the races to, ummm, nobody?
Because there *is* a significant TV audience, at least in the road-racing sense of things. As much as you might try to pretend people don't watch the series, Grand-Am races are consistently among the highest-rated road-racing events on SPEED Channel. That doesn't mean much, but it means that on SPEED, as many people are watching DPs as are watching LMPs or Champ Cars. Sorry to burst your little purist bubble there, but it's the facts.

Grand-Am most assuredly is not "the greatest thing since sliced bread" and it has plenty of flaws which I'm quite willing to admit - yes, the cars are ugly and no, they're not doing as good a job holding the costs down as they should.

But neither is it some sort of racing Antichrist which you all are quite happy to pretend it is. It's a road-racing series with quite a number of the best drivers on the planet (including a gaggle of Americans) getting paid to go at it wheel-to-wheel in fairly equivalent (but not very pretty) cars on some of the best road courses in North America. Accept it for what it is, or don't. Your choice.

Y'all can keep dumping on it all you want, but I'll keep defending it whether or not I work for a Grand-Am team. I wouldn't work in a series for which I have no respect (and there are a couple out there) but Grand-Am's earned mine.

Any of y'all see me at a track somewhere, flag me down and I'll buy ya a beer. Screw the politics, enjoy the racing.

[extramundane]

The ALMS used to be For the Fans but now its World Class. I guess the two are mutually exclusive.

Oh, it's still For The Fans...who run sportscar websites, think Gerry Forsythe is as much to blame as Scott Atherton, or believe that Danica Patrick at the Sebring test makes up for season-long P1/GT1 fields that can be counted on hands with fingers left over.

The rest of us don't count, or so I was told.

[Tim]

Fox would air Linsey Lohan taking a **** if NASCAR told them too. I don't care what channel it's on it won't keep my attention for more than 1-2 mins.

[Sean O'Gorman]

gives them garage tours and gets them going to sell auto insurance to drunk drivers - sorry, "high-risk clients." :laugh:

Dammit Travis, the correct term is "non-standard." :laugh:

[pchall]

I don't care what channel it's on it won't keep my attention for more than 1-2 mins.

Which induces a coma sooner? Grand Am or Nextel Cup?

[TRDfan]

During playoff action.....older son (11 yrs) said after a Grand Am promo....

"What are those cars ? They are ugly."


Will I watch ? Yes.....it's a race....lots of good drivers....and I need some sort of escape.
But I completely agree that the DP's are some painful looking cars.

[Tim]

Grand-Am by far. I've never watched a race longer than 5-6 minutes at a time. It's just boring to me.

[Tim]

Just think Mari Hulman-George running naked backwards through a cornfield. Thats what a grand-am race is to me.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Which induces a coma sooner? Grand Am or Nextel Cup?

C) Your predictable cynicism. ;)

[NismoZ]

I have an idea. A "Grand Am DP Redesign Competition." That WHOLE look can't be blamed on safety, can it?:confused:

[diamond dave]

Any of y'all see me at a track somewhere, flag me down and I'll buy ya a beer. Screw the politics, enjoy the racing.
you're not old enough:p

[pchall]

I have an idea. A "Grand Am DP Redesign Competition." That WHOLE look can't be blamed on safety, can it?:confused:

Nope, just the desire to have "sporty cars" that a popular but fat and out of shape NASCAR driver can climb into for a guest appearance every now and then. If you check out Exhibit #1 in Section 17 of the Grand Am general regs you see an illustration of the required NASCAR style full cage that creates most of the ugliness in the chassis/body combination. The DP specific regs have the bodywork constraints (Section 2) that explain the rest of the mess.

[Redwing]

Just think Mari Hulman-George running naked backwards through a cornfield. Thats what a grand-am race is to me.

outstanding. My vote for POTY. Pray, what made you think of that image?

[Ed_Severson]

Better yet, does whether she's running backward or forward really have a big impact on the extent to which the overall image disturbs you? :)

[oddlycalm]

But neither is it some sort of racing Antichrist which you all are quite happy to pretend it is. I'm not pretending at anything. My comments simply called into question the economic realities of the series. I appreciate your explanation. Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to what the entry fee is at a typical event?

oc

[doppelganger]

Just think Mari Hulman-George running naked backwards through a cornfield. Thats what a grand-am race is to me.

Oh now that's an ugly image. I'll never be able to eat another ear of corn.;)

[FCYTravis]

Perhaps you would care to enlighten us as to what the entry fee is at a typical event?

A little research goes a long way. It's all on the Grand-Am Web site.

$7,495 per car for the Rolex + Test Days.
$3,950 per DP/$2,950 per GT for all other races.
$2,250 per GS/$2,000 per ST for Koni Challenge.

Throw in $350 per hard-card... :gomer:

Note: I'm *not* saying this is necessarily good. They're making a lot of money off the back gate and entry fees, probably enough to be self-sufficient. Is that the best business model to run a race series on? Not really...

Like I said, I'm no Pollyanna. Grand-Am has its own set of issues - it's nowhere near perfect.

[G.]

posted w/o comment

MILLER: The Real International Race of Champions
Written by: Robin Miller
Daytona Beach, Fla. – 1/25/2007


The stars have aligned to pack the Rolex 24 with racing's best field of drivers.

It’s the real International Race of Champions since there are drivers from all over the planet with 78 titles to their credit on the entry list. For sports car enthusiasts, it’s great names driving racy but ugly cars. For open-wheel fans, it’s how we want the Indianapolis 500 to look again before it’s too late.

But, any way you want to frame it, this weekend’s Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona is unequalled in star power.

The finest racers in North America descend on Daytona and, while they aren’t wheeling thoroughbred machines like the Audi, Porsche and Acura in ALMS, it’s the melting pot of talent that makes this a must-see event.

“The competition is like nothing else you see all year and it really has almost everybody in it,” said Scott Dixon, the 2003 Indy Racing League king who won this event last year with teammates Dan Wheldon and Casey Mears. “You get to race against a lot of people you’ve raced with over the years or guys you watch in other series all the time.

It’s got the flavor of the good old days of Indy when stars from Formula 1, sports cars and NASCAR went after the Indy car regulars.

OK, so Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso would be nice additions, but with Juan Pablo Montoya suiting up, the F1 faction has respectable representation, even though JPM is now in tin-tops.

No less than six Indy 500 winners (Sam Hornish Jr., Helio Castroneves, Eddie Cheever, Buddy Rice, Montoya and Wheldon) are entered and, if you go by the video replay, that number is seven since Paul Tracy is running again. U.S. 500 winner Jimmy Vasser, too.

IWARM (http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/35010/)

[NismoZ]

I think there should be a picture taken of the field similar to those NFL team photos. Be quite the poster.

[oddlycalm]

It’s got the flavor of the good old days of Indy when stars from Formula 1, sports cars and NASCAR went after the Indy car regulars. The only minor differences being that it's a 24hr snorefest conducted with tinker toy equipment.

oc

[Racing Truth]

posted w/o comment

MILLER: The Real International Race of Champions
Written by: Robin Miller
Daytona Beach, Fla. – 1/25/2007


The stars have aligned to pack the Rolex 24 with racing's best field of drivers.

It’s the real International Race of Champions since there are drivers from all over the planet with 78 titles to their credit on the entry list. For sports car enthusiasts, it’s great names driving racy but ugly cars. For open-wheel fans, it’s how we want the Indianapolis 500 to look again before it’s too late.

But, any way you want to frame it, this weekend’s Rolex 24 Hours of Daytona is unequalled in star power.

The finest racers in North America descend on Daytona and, while they aren’t wheeling thoroughbred machines like the Audi, Porsche and Acura in ALMS, it’s the melting pot of talent that makes this a must-see event.

“The competition is like nothing else you see all year and it really has almost everybody in it,” said Scott Dixon, the 2003 Indy Racing League king who won this event last year with teammates Dan Wheldon and Casey Mears. “You get to race against a lot of people you’ve raced with over the years or guys you watch in other series all the time.

It’s got the flavor of the good old days of Indy when stars from Formula 1, sports cars and NASCAR went after the Indy car regulars.

OK, so Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso would be nice additions, but with Juan Pablo Montoya suiting up, the F1 faction has respectable representation, even though JPM is now in tin-tops.

No less than six Indy 500 winners (Sam Hornish Jr., Helio Castroneves, Eddie Cheever, Buddy Rice, Montoya and Wheldon) are entered and, if you go by the video replay, that number is seven since Paul Tracy is running again. U.S. 500 winner Jimmy Vasser, too.

IWARM (http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/35010/)

Just another uninformed heretic who clearly knows nothing about racing.

:gomer: :gomer:

[FCYTravis]

How about that Gurney guy... he just took the pole and smashed the track record along the way.

:)

[Racing Truth]

How about that Gurney guy... he just took the pole and smashed the track record along the way.

:)

:cool: Congrats to Alex and the team. Say, do we know anyone on the team?:confused:

[GLenz]

A little research goes a long way. It's all on the Grand-Am Web site.

$7,495 per car for the Rolex + Test Days.
$3,950 per DP/$2,950 per GT for all other races.
$2,250 per GS/$2,000 per ST for Koni Challenge.

Throw in $350 per hard-card... :gomer:

Note: I'm *not* saying this is necessarily good. They're making a lot of money off the back gate and entry fees, probably enough to be self-sufficient. Is that the best business model to run a race series on? Not really...

Like I said, I'm no Pollyanna. Grand-Am has its own set of issues - it's nowhere near perfect.
This business model has been used successfully in the past by Edmondson. He started a motorcycle roadrace sanction called Championship Cup. Regional stuff with a final, ala SCCA Runoffs. Ran a pretty good operation. Racers for the most part liked it compared to the alternatives. None of us really knew how it was working out financially for Edmondson. Eventually, it became obvious it was making him good money, since he started coming to the track in larger motorcoaches and his wife showed up with bigger boobs.:)

[Spicoli]

so, it starts at 1pm.

but speed carries it at 2:30? for 1/2 hour?

huh?

:confused:

[Spicoli]

oops - fox 1 to 2:30pm.

[cameraman]

Bob Varsha's voice. Nice to hear.

Even if the copy he is reading is a tad hyperbolic...

[Cam]

Bob Varsha's voice. Nice to hear.

Bitchin' Bob is the best! After all the time off it's fitting that he is the one to break the silence! :thumbup:

[Steve99]

oops - fox 1 to 2:30pm.

Not here. Replaced by college basketball. Welcome to network TV, Grand Am.

[cameraman]

22 minutes into the show and GT gets a mention:shakehead

[nissan gtp]

Gurney on pole with track record.

Is that the DP record or the absolute record held by the Toyota GTP ?

[devilmaster]

Not here. Replaced by college basketball. Welcome to network TV, Grand Am.

But But But But......

SeanO said they were relevant!!! :irked: I don't know who to believe anymore!!!!

[Sean O'Gorman]

Gurney on pole with track record.

Is that the DP record or the absolute record held by the Toyota GTP ?

The track was reconfigured, I think the old IMSA record was 1:36.xxx

[cameraman]

Gainsco #99 is toast:shakehead, or at least tweaked. Maybe they got away with it.

[Sean O'Gorman]

But But But But......

SeanO said they were relevant!!! :irked: I don't know who to believe anymore!!!!

Every form of racing except NASCAR gets bumped, what's your point? I remember a Champ Car race last summer that was supposed to be on NBC moved over to SportsTime Ohio so the 4th place Cleveland Indians could air a meaningless game, is that any different?

[nissan gtp]

The track was reconfigured, I think the old IMSA record was 1:36.xxx

I knew it had been modified ("bus stop" looks like it got opened up a lot) but don't know the specifics.

[NismoZ]

Oh, maaaan. Just made it to the first Ruby Tuesday Triple Prime commercial. Gotta go now. I like mine medium well. Back in a couple.

[cameraman]

Every form of racing except NASCAR gets bumped, what's your point? I remember a Champ Car race last summer that was supposed to be on NBC moved over to SportsTime Ohio so the 4th place Cleveland Indians could air a meaningless game, is that any different?

Quite the pisciform IQ you have there:shakehead

http://todaystackle.com/pics/bruce-crappie.jpg

[devilmaster]

what's your point?

I don't need to have a point. Your posts never do.

[TKGAngel]

Every form of racing except NASCAR gets bumped, what's your point? I remember a Champ Car race last summer that was supposed to be on NBC moved over to SportsTime Ohio so the 4th place Cleveland Indians could air a meaningless game, is that any different?

Not to burst your bubble, but it would seem that Cleveland also pre-empted a NASCAR race.


Jayski (http://www.jayski.com) says NBC in Cleveland Ohio didn't air the Nextel Cup race from Watkins Glen on it's NBC affiliate there, WKYC-TV - Channel 3, they showed the Cleveland Indians baseball game.

BTW, what happened to the #99 Gainsco car? I just turned on the race and they're already out?

[jonovision_man]

Note: I'm *not* saying this is necessarily good. They're making a lot of money off the back gate and entry fees, probably enough to be self-sufficient. Is that the best business model to run a race series on? Not really...

Like I said, I'm no Pollyanna. Grand-Am has its own set of issues - it's nowhere near perfect.

I really would like to understand the economics of Grand Am... I had some long debates/discussions with good old Doc Austin over on TF about it.

I see a series that draws very few TV viewers, even fewer attendees, and yet has massive grids.

I'm left asking who on earth is paying for all those entries??? Are the teams self-supporting? Is it just a hobby for all these people, or are they really recovering their costs?

I'm really curious, mostly because of some of the similarities with the "new" ChampCar business model. It seems to me that anyone who wants to fire a few million at doing some racing should be taking a serious look at running a ChampCar instead of a DP...

Edit: BTW, the Doc theory was that this was rich enthusiasts having a blast without paying too much attention to the impact on their wallets... :)

jono

[cameraman]

BTW, what happened to the #99 Gainsco car? I just turned on the race and they're already out?

A GT's hood latch failed on the nascar curve and hood blinded the driver, it drifted up the curve and collected the front wheel of the #99. It is still on track but it isn't going in a straight line too well.

[jonovision_man]

FOX coverage gives way to ... the Cosby Show. :rofl:

jono

[Opposite Lock]

#99 isn't showing on live timing. :(

[jonovision_man]

Go 'dinger! :thumbup: :thumbup:

[formulaben]

Go 'dinger! :thumbup: :thumbup:

Good move(s). Going in circles seems like a waste, doesn't it?

[Sean O'Gorman]

Is it just a hobby for all these people, or are they really recovering their costs?

I'm really curious, mostly because of some of the similarities with the "new" ChampCar business model. It seems to me that anyone who wants to fire a few million at doing some racing should be taking a serious look at running a ChampCar instead of a DP...

Edit: BTW, the Doc theory was that this was rich enthusiasts having a blast without paying too much attention to the impact on their wallets... :)

jono

90% of road racing is a hobby for wealthy egomaniacs, not a professional sport. The exception, of course, are the drivers lucky enough to be born with the wealth necessary to get the opportunity to be paid for this stuff.

The reason the Grand-Am model works, while the Champ Car model struggles, is because in Grand-Am, the rich guy can :gasp: actually drive the damn car. I know I'd rather stick a shotgun in my mouth before I'd drop 5 million dollars a year for some punk to drive my car.

And speaking of punks, I believe its time for Matthew Alhadeff to get in and ruin all of Bill Auberlen's progress. :thumdown:

[extramundane]

The reason the Grand-Am model works, while the Champ Car model struggles, is because in Grand-Am, the rich guy can :gasp: actually drive the damn car.

Contradiction alert in 5...4...3...


And speaking of punks, I believe its time for Matthew Alhadeff to get in and ruin all of Bill Auberlen's progress. :thumdown:

So rich guys are OK, but rich punks aren't?

[TKGAngel]

The reason the Grand-Am model works, while the Champ Car model struggles, is because in Grand-Am, the rich guy can :gasp: actually drive the damn car.

I dont know, I think Philippe has proven to be a rich guy who can actually drive a damn car. (It may be daddy's money, but it still counts).

[pchall]

#99 isn't showing on live timing. :(

It's Vasser's shift now and he has the #99 back up to 59th, 28 laps down.

[Sean O'Gorman]

So rich guys are OK, but rich punks aren't?


So you don't see the difference between someone like Colin Braun, and "Matty Fresh?"

http://myspace-121.vo.llnwd.net/00611/12/14/611544121_l.jpg

"My name is Matt and I race cars for a living!"

Do ya? How much do you get paid? What a dick.

BTW, I suspect the GT lead will change soon once autocross legend Randy Pobst gets back in the #70. I think he was just driving in first gear to give the rest of the field a chance. :thumbup:

[Sean O'Gorman]

I dont know, I think Philippe has proven to be a rich guy who can actually drive a damn car. (It may be daddy's money, but it still counts).

Different kind of driver. Rich guy = someone who started racing later in life, and is just doing it as a hobby.

Obviously road racing needs the kids who come from wealthy backgrounds, and I have no problem with that, unless they are undeserving punks like Philippe or Alhadeff.

[jonovision_man]

90% of road racing is a hobby for wealthy egomaniacs, not a professional sport. The exception, of course, are the drivers lucky enough to be born with the wealth necessary to get the opportunity to be paid for this stuff.

The reason the Grand-Am model works, while the Champ Car model struggles, is because in Grand-Am, the rich guy can :gasp: actually drive the damn car. I know I'd rather stick a shotgun in my mouth before I'd drop 5 million dollars a year for some punk to drive my car.

And speaking of punks, I believe its time for Matthew Alhadeff to get in and ruin all of Bill Auberlen's progress. :thumdown:

Lots of the cars out there aren't being driven by the team owners, though.

I'd love to see the numbers, ie. a season of Grand-Am vs a season of CCWS with the new chassis.

jono

[TKGAngel]

Different kind of driver. Rich guy = someone who started racing later in life, and is just doing it as a hobby.

Obviously road racing needs the kids who come from wealthy backgrounds, and I have no problem with that, unless they are undeserving punks like Philippe or Alhadeff.

So, using your terminology, rich guy = Paul Newman. Doesn't need to race to survive financially, does it for the love of the sport.

Philippe may have been in over his head when he started in Champ Car, but I think he's proven he belongs. The fact that his peers have twice recognized him as the most improved driver illustrates that maybe he can shed the undeserving punk label.

[formulaben]

Different kind of driver. Rich guy = someone who started racing later in life, and is just doing it as a hobby.

Obviously road racing needs the kids who come from wealthy backgrounds, and I have no problem with that, unless they are undeserving punks like Philippe or Alhadeff.

...like Graham Rahal, Michael and Marco Andretti, and Al Unser Jr., etc? :thumdown:

Look, wealth and name may get you there, but talent keeps you there. Not even FTG and AJ Foyt can keep their boys in legitimate seats.

[Sean O'Gorman]

The fact that his peers have twice recognized him as the most improved driver illustrates that maybe he can shed the undeserving punk label.

No.

[jonovision_man]

Philippe may have been in over his head when he started in Champ Car, but I think he's proven he belongs. The fact that his peers have twice recognized him as the most improved driver illustrates that maybe he can shed the undeserving punk label.

I couldn't agree more... count me as one of his biggest critics on day 1, but he looked quick quite a few times this season. Won a race. He's earned his spot.

jono

[cameraman]

Obviously road racing needs the kids who come from wealthy backgrounds, and I have no problem with that, unless they are undeserving punks like Philippe

"Pisciform IQ" is giving you way too much credit.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Be careful with the personal insults, they got me banned for the remainder of the Rolex 24 a couple years ago. ;)

[Spicoli]

T&S is gone. wtf????:shakehead

[devilmaster]

T&S is gone. wtf????:shakehead

cossie is still pumping out T&S in the chat room

[nrc]

"Pisciform IQ" is giving you way too much credit.

Stick to the topic. :irked:

[G.]

I couldn't agree more... count me as one of his biggest critics on day 1, but he looked quick quite a few times this season. Won a race. He's earned his spot.

jono^^^^ Me too.

It appears to me that lots of folks are watching the race.

That includes/included me.

Drop the flag!

On those pieces of ...

[jonovision_man]

It appears to me that lots of folks are watching the race.

That includes/included me.

Drop the flag!

On those pieces of ...

Lol. :) They ugly, that's for sure.

jono