No more blue oval?

[pchall]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/34990/

Ford Ends Champ Car Association
Written by: Robin Miller

Dearborn, Mich. – 1/24/2007

Champ Car lost three more words from its official logo but, more importantly, a major ally on Wednesday when Ford Motor Company announced its withdrawal from participation in the series.

[Warlock!]

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/34990/

Ford Ends Champ Car Association
Written by: Robin Miller

Dearborn, Mich. – 1/24/2007

Champ Car lost three more words from its official logo but, more importantly, a major ally on Wednesday when Ford Motor Company announced its withdrawal from participation in the series.
Those announcements really are "pouring in".

:thumbup:

[extramundane]

But, with Champ Car opting to drop the pace car program in favor of Minardi boss Paul Stoddart’s two-seat Formula 1 cars, Ford decided it was time to move on.

“We were surprised they chose to torpedo the pace car program and even more surprised they decided to go with the F1 two-seaters,” said Dan Davis, director of racing for Ford. “And we’re not leaving on bad terms, it’s just that Champ Car doesn’t align with our current business objectives.

“We’re not bitter, just very disappointed.”

It’s believed Ford had offered to increase its support and involvement this season, most notably in taking over the pace car program and expanding the on-track activities for its customers and dealers with the Hot Lap Program.


Awesome job, guys. Maybe next year, the schedule can include a Wednesday date on a chicaned oval at Lowe's. :shakehead

[cameraman]

If that really is the story Kalkhoven and Forsythe have lost their minds

[Don Quixote]

jeesh. :shakehead

[Boatdesigner]

I'm confused! Are they going to use the Minardi 2 seaters as pace cars?:confused: These things don't seem to be related.

Losing Ford is a major loss unless they have someone else to take over. I wouldn't mind seeing Nissan, the safety crew running around in Titans. I was feeling good about the series until this week!:shakehead

[doppelganger]

This announcement takes away the optimism I've been feeling the last two days. What's next?

[NismoZ]

It is NOT a major loss and I am not less optimistic. Big Dan set the stage for this a LONG time ago when he started "questioning" Ford's involvement in a series that was "going increasingly international." Interesting, coming from a Co. that is losing BILLIONS mainly in this market and only showing strength internationally. No, he'd (Ford) have done this anyway and simply needed to have someone to blame, just like most of you. I applaud CC for not waiting around for a bomb to drop when it might have been more problematic to do something about it. No, CC moved when they knew they had to not when they wanted to. I feel Ford's "support" lately was largely symbolic anyway and certainly didn't involve large sums of cash investment. In fact I feel Ford was getting the best end of the deal. It's not like CC is running Cosworth Fords anymore. See any Ford CC ads lately? It had been a long and for a time successful association but not anymore. It was old, broken and Ford is in NO position to try to fix it. CC will say the right things and hope that someday FoMoCo may be able to be involved again. If you think Ford wouldn't want to be seen at LB, LV and a bunch of other CC venues then I think you'd be wrong. They just can't right now. If they replace Honda at Indy in '10, THEN I'll be pissed. (PS- Ford owns 51% of Mazda, correct? More race/performance oriented, already involved.)

[formulaben]

If that really is the story Kalkhoven and Forsythe have lost their minds

Let's not jump to conclusions just yet. I prefer to analyze this a little more than just losing Ford. It may be that we are gaining another manufacturer. It may be that Kalkhoven is paving the way for remergification. If it weren't for the fact that CC has a deal with ABC/ESPN I'd think of it in a more negative light. Personally, I'd like to see a manufacturer like Nissan or Mazda get in there and actually use the series to market their products and promote CC.

[DagoFast]

I'm not really sure what it all means. Not being a media insider or somehow privy to every contract in racing, I have no idea how much money Ford was spending or being paid. And as a simple 'ol fan, I don't really care.

Luckily, KK and GF own Cosworth so there will be engines. And they don't need "no stinkin badges" to please me. I never thought of the cossie as a Ford or the Ilmor as a Chevy or a fonda anyway. :gomer:

[RTKar]

Certainly not a postive for the staggering series, especially with spring training going on and the season months away :shakehead

Wait and see is the best that can be said about the situation.

[jonovision_man]

Really crappy news. :shakehead Why is every reason for optimism followed by at least one for pessimism?

jono

[NismoZ]

So, a 750 hp Mazda/Cosworth I4-turbo?:D Remember when we went through all those scenerios years ago at 7G? I think Hyundai was even mentioned and guess what?

[Wheel-Nut]

. . . Why is every reason for optimism followed by at least one for pessimism?

jono

Because every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

[datachicane]

Interesting timing, considering that this is coming up later this week:
AP: Ford Motor Co. could post the worst annual loss in its storied 103-year history when the automaker releases its 2006 earnings on Thursday (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070124/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_ford_outlook)

I wonder if this had more to do with Ford than with CC.
Still, not good news.

[JLMannin]

CART survived the loss of the "Indycar" brand. CART survived the loss of the 500 as a series race. CART survived the loss of most of its top teams. CART even survived the loss of CART and became Champcar.

Honda attempted a "March Suprise" by poaching the Rahal and Fernandez teams at the spring training event several seasons ago, and yet the season came to pass.

And let's not forget the most impertant loss of all, the loss against which all losses are measured - was lost Max Papis, and survived.

[Tim]

There is a reason why I'm looking forward to baseball more than CC. It's like retards running the school.

[Insomniac]

I'd feel better if CC named the replacement at the same time.

[Insomniac]

CART survived the loss of the "Indycar" brand. CART survived the loss of the 500 as a series race. CART survived the loss of most of its top teams. CART even survived the loss of CART and became Champcar.

Honda attempted a "March Suprise" by poaching the Rahal and Fernandez teams at the spring training event several seasons ago, and yet the season came to pass.

And let's not forget the most impertant loss of all, the loss against which all losses are measured - was lost Max Papis, and survived.

I don't think anyone thinks CC won't survive, but everything you listed really isn't in the best interest of the business/sport. Interest is going down year after year, and losing things won't change that trend.

[doppelganger]

I'd feel better if CC named the replacement at the same time.

Exactly my thought. This roller coaster ride year after year is getting tiresome. We buy new items (T-shirts, backpacks, hats, etc) with the new logo featuring sponsors every year. We're willing to spend our dollars if possible at a CC sponsor, but at some point our dollars for the extras beyond tickets, hotels and transportation to races will thin.

[RHR_Fan]

Okay so no more Ford and no more pacecar program. Does that mean they need to find another engine supplier or that they are just not going to be a major sponsor? I didn't see anything about the engines, but saying they are going to withdraw from the series...I'm just lost. :confused:

~Nicole

[eiregosod]

how much in sponsorship is champcar losing because Ford is pulling out?

The net cost to Champcar is:

The money that Stoddart spends on the Minardi team minus the money that Ford kicks into the series.

Does KK give back his Ford company car?

[grungex]

Okay so no more Ford and no more pacecar program. Does that mean they need to find another engine supplier or that they are just not going to be a major sponsor? I didn't see anything about the engines, but saying they are going to withdraw from the series...I'm just lost.
No, the Cosworth engines are owned by the series, and KK and GF own Cosworth. Really, the only thing Ford about them was the logo on the valve covers.

[cart7]

CART survived the loss of the "Indycar" brand. CART survived the loss of the 500 as a series race. CART survived the loss of most of its top teams. CART even survived the loss of CART and became Champcar.

Honda attempted a "March Suprise" by poaching the Rahal and Fernandez teams at the spring training event several seasons ago, and yet the season came to pass.

And let's not forget the most impertant loss of all, the loss against which all losses are measured - was lost Max Papis, and survived.

CART went bankrupt.

So what happened with that Ford Mustang racing series that was going to run with CCWS?
Next thing ya know, something really crazy is going to happen like Carl Haas teaming with Mary Hulman and forming a Nascar Busch team together....

Oh wait...

[pchall]

As NismoZ points out, Ford's been bailing on Champ Car in slow motion for several years. The final excuse for leaving seems really lame. Not enough track time to expand their pace car ride alongs for local dealers and what not because CC wants the Minardi two-seaters on the course.? GMAFB. The Minardi two-seater program is probably more significant in Kalkhoven and Forsythe's plans than Mustang rides for white belted tire kickers.

Besides, what would be wrong with a Nissan/Cosworth 350Z pace car? ;)

[eiregosod]

The Minardi two-seater program is probably more significant in Kalkhoven and Forsythe's plans than Mustang rides for white belted tire kickers.

Besides, what would be wrong with a Nissan/Cosworth 350Z pace car? ;)


The only people who could afford an "F1 2 seater ride" are company CEOs. One would think that KK is creating a stud farm for CEOs.

[grungex]

So what happened with that Ford Mustang racing series that was going to run with CCWS?
That never had a chance, given the lunatic cost of the cars. You could go Grand-Am racing for far less.

[pchall]

The only people who could afford an "F1 2 seater ride" are company CEOs. One would think that KK is creating a stud farm for CEOs.

Giving a CEO a thrill and a boner with a two-seater ride might be more advantageous in their plans than helping Ford get a local dealer to keep another 50 F150s in stock on his lot.

[jonovision_man]

I don't think anyone thinks CC won't survive, but everything you listed really isn't in the best interest of the business/sport. Interest is going down year after year, and losing things won't change that trend.

... I'd futher add that CART didn't actually "survive", it went bankrupt because it was losing money hand over fist.

The one person willing to step forward to keep CC alive was KK, and has been losing money ever since. If the day comes where he says "enough", will there really be another saviour?

jono

[emjaya]

I'm not really sure what it all means. Not being a media insider or somehow privy to every contract in racing, I have no idea how much money Ford was spending or being paid. And as a simple 'ol fan, I don't really care.

Luckily, KK and GF own Cosworth so there will be engines. And they don't need "no stinkin badges" to please me. I never thought of the cossie as a Ford or the Ilmor as a Chevy or a fonda anyway. :gomer:

Wot 'e said.:)

I've been waiting for Ford to bail every since KK bought Cosworth.It's not going to matter to me if the DP1 is "Powered by Nissan" or "Powered by Kia" or even "Powered by Dongfeng" because it's really powered by a Cosworth.The racing is not going to change no matter who's name is on the side.

[SurfaceUnits]

Ford: Biggest loss ever
Annual shortfall roars past company record, as quarter loss comes in wider than expected; larger operating losses ahead.
By Chris Isidore, CNNMoney.com senior writer
January 25 2007: 8:50 AM EST

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- Ford Motor Co. reported the largest annual loss in company history Thursday, as the embattled automaker posted a fourth-quarter loss that was worse than analysts' expectations and the company warned of worse showings ahead.

Weak sales of its key pickup trucks in the quarter and $9.9 billion in after-tax charges due to employee buyouts and plant closing plans resulted in $12.7 billion loss for 2006.

[NismoZ]

And it's not just that. We should not be pleased Ford plans to fire 44,000 American workers and close up to 16 plants to offset those billions in losses. Next to that walking from CC is NOTHING. They did it because they HAD to. Believe me CC/KK are not and never have been asleep at the wheel. They may be disappointed but are nowhere nearly as surprised as some of us. Do you recall the 5 year plan including "opening up" things gradually to include even additional chassis or engine manufacturers? That talk has just accelerated. My guess is we can rule out Ford, Chrysler and GM! Probably time to look beyond Japan, too. Start with Korea and go to China and I think you'll see where most of the available auto related investment cash will come from. Is CC racing in China because they couldn't get a date at that little oval in Iowa? Do you believe CC was pleased when Ansan fell through? Let Ford move some fun money to Jack Roush, China is the only way GM will even survive. As noted Cosworth can build a helluva Hyundai...or Chery!:)

[Hurling Frootmig]

What's the old saying . . . "when one door closes another opens".

I suspect that there's many ways this can play out. Cosworth has been getting into the tuner market so they could just use the Cosworth name this year and build up that side of the business.

[Andrew Longman]

Ford (and Bridgestone) paid for a lot of ad time the last few years and that was important when CC was buying TV time.

If you believe some who say CC is now getting paid by Disney then that is less important (unless the Disney figured B and F would be buying some of the time).

What I'd like to see anyway is having a title sponsor for the Championship, not the series. (e.g. NASCAR's Nextel Cup, CART's PPG Indycar Championship)

So have the Champ Car World Series Intel Championship, or something of the sort. Much cleaner and easier for preserve the brand when sponsors come and go. And the sponsor does not need to be a manufacturer or even auto related.

Given that Mazda is signed with Atlantics and Atlantics run at most CC races, look to see a Mazda pace car IMO

[Cam]

Given that Mazda is signed with Atlantics and Atlantics run at most CC races, look to see a Mazda pace car IMO

CX-7 Pace Car? Turbo too??? Makes too much sense! ;)

[eiregosod]

Ford (and Bridgestone) paid for a lot of ad time the last few years and that was important when CC was buying TV time.

If you believe some who say CC is now getting paid by Disney then that is less important (unless the Disney figured B and F would be buying some of the time).

What I'd like to see anyway is having a title sponsor for the Championship, not the series. (e.g. NASCAR's Nextel Cup, CART's PPG Indycar Championship)

So have the Champ Car World Series Intel Championship, or something of the sort. Much cleaner and easier for preserve the brand when sponsors come and go. And the sponsor does not need to be a manufacturer or even auto related.

Given that Mazda is signed with Atlantics and Atlantics run at most CC races, look to see a Mazda pace car IMO

Intel would be a great partner considering that computers are needed to control the engines these days. Not sure if any Intel products are used in the control hardware.

[Chiphead_Dave]

Ford leaving is no big deal to me.

Now I don't have to feel guilty when I don't buy a Ford...ever....ok ever again I owned a couple of Mustangs as a kid.

When I would see Ford on the engine cover I would feel a little wierd.

Kinda like buying a expensive piece of equipment and finding out that
the most expensive componant was built by playschool.

Ford has proven that it can't build what the people want at cost/price ratios
that will keep them in business...I say they were a bad sponsor from an image point of view.

[SurfaceUnits]

The automaker was likely to have met or exceeded certain targets related to cost-cutting and vehicle quality in 2006, according to people familiar with the matter.

As Ford meets these targets, employees at a certain leadership level and above, including manufacturing-plant managers, may be in line for bonuses.

-----------------------------------------------------------
What, Managers get a dollar bonus for each employee they terminate

[Insomniac]

... I'd futher add that CART didn't actually "survive", it went bankrupt because it was losing money hand over fist.

The one person willing to step forward to keep CC alive was KK, and has been losing money ever since. If the day comes where he says "enough", will there really be another saviour?

jono

Probably not, looks like GF is started to get fed up with all the money he is spending.

[G.]

We need some sock-blowing stuff NOW!

[Chiphead_Dave]

The automaker was likely to have met or exceeded certain targets related to cost-cutting and vehicle quality in 2006, according to people familiar with the matter.

As Ford meets these targets, employees at a certain leadership level and above, including manufacturing-plant managers, may be in line for bonuses.

-----------------------------------------------------------
What, Managers get a dollar bonus for each employee they terminate

Welcome to corparate America.

Drive the business into the ground....fire a bunch of people to get in the black...get heap big bonus:(

[Ziggy]

Yeah, who needs Ford????

They suck.

I mean, there products only range from soccor moms to millionare playboys

we need some new blood, like Carl Russo......................

[formulaben]

... I'd futher add that CART didn't actually "survive", it went bankrupt because it was losing money hand over fist.
I'm not so sure that wasn't by plan. A BIG portion of the money that went away was to secure engine purchases from Cosworth, not leases. This guaranteed an engine supply.

[nrc]

... I'd futher add that CART didn't actually "survive", it went bankrupt because it was losing money hand over fist.

The one person willing to step forward to keep CC alive was KK, and has been losing money ever since. If the day comes where he says "enough", will there really be another saviour?

jono

Sorry, that don't play here. The truth is that Gerry Forsythe was going to end up taking Champ Car private one way or another. Originally it was going to take the form of a buy-out but there was no way that could be completed prior to the next season and there was no way Forsythe and Kalkhoven were going to pour money into something that wasn't theirs.

Whether Champ car could have survived as a public company is really irrelevant - few racing sanctioning bodies could.

[cameraman]

Welcome to corparate America.

Drive the business into the ground....fire a bunch of people to get in the black...get heap big bonus:(

Black??? This doesn't look very black to me.


Ford Motor Co. (F) lost $5.8 billion in the fourth quarter amid slumping sales and huge restructuring costs, pushing the automaker's deficit for the year to $12.7 billion, the largest in its 103-year history.

The annual loss reported Thursday surpassed its previous record of $7.39 billion set in 1992. The 2006 loss amounted to $6.79 per share versus a profit of $1.44 billion, or 77 cents a share, in 2005.

[Chiphead_Dave]

Black??? This doesn't look very black to me.


Ok less red. Seriously it happens all the time. A division where I used to work
was told to drive losses to a specified percentage of it's gross revenue.

They succeed by laying off people, losing customers due to lack of resources to
fix problems (i.e. they layed off everyone who knew anything what was left were bean counters and low paid newbies), and shortcutting quality.

In the end they made their goal. It ended up cutting the gross revenue down to %25 percent of original levels. The managers got huge bonuses. 2 months after the close of the business year their biggest customer told them to go away.....to many quality problems. Their revenue was now effectively zero and they shut the division down.

[Racing Truth]

There is a reason why I'm looking forward to baseball more than CC. It's like retards running the school.

You know, this really isn't funny, but damn if that isn't the post of the decade.:laugh:

And Ziggy's snark has been good too.

[Racing Truth]

As NismoZ points out, Ford's been bailing on Champ Car in slow motion for several years. The final excuse for leaving seems really lame. Not enough track time to expand their pace car ride alongs for local dealers and what not because CC wants the Minardi two-seaters on the course.? GMAFB. The Minardi two-seater program is probably more significant in Kalkhoven and Forsythe's plans than Mustang rides for white belted tire kickers.

Besides, what would be wrong with a Nissan/Cosworth 350Z pace car? ;)

Wait a minute here. A MINARDI 2-seater "more significant" than Ford? Well, I'll say this much, THAT is a very revealing statement.

I'll leave it to fellow OC'ers to determine whether what it reveals is good or bad.

[Racing Truth]

Awesome job, guys. Maybe next year, the schedule can include a Wednesday date on a chicaned oval at Lowe's. :shakehead

Incorrect. Sources* tell me this chicaned oval will, to further Champ Car's increasing emphasis on the "urban festival," be located in downtown Charlotte. These same sources reveal Kalkhoven's belief that, given enough "lubrication and 'hot women,' most Charlotte fans will eventually think its a large NASCAR festival."



*My Sources are the same ones used by noted "journalist" Mark Cippollini.

:gomer: :gomer: :gomer:

[jonovision_man]

Sorry, that don't play here. The truth is that Gerry Forsythe was going to end up taking Champ Car private one way or another. Originally it was going to take the form of a buy-out but there was no way that could be completed prior to the next season and there was no way Forsythe and Kalkhoven were going to pour money into something that wasn't theirs.

Whether Champ car could have survived as a public company is really irrelevant - few racing sanctioning bodies could.

Can you really say that with a straight face...??? Did you not see the financials? This was a company that was mired in red ink, it was going bankrupt in a hurry. The buy-out was going to be for peanuts, with the recognition that the series was going to zero with a bullet.

KK, GF, and PG saved this series from completely croaking. And with PG out of the picture, GF pulling back, it's KK burning through more money or this thing is toast.

jono

[OW]

Can you really say that with a straight face...??? Did you not see the financials? This was a company that was mired in red ink, it was going bankrupt in a hurry. The buy-out was going to be for peanuts, with the recognition that the series was going to zero with a bullet.

KK, GF, and PG saved this series from completely croaking. And with PG out of the picture, GF pulling back, it's KK burning through more money or this thing is toast.

jono



Can you really say that KK GF and PG saved the series?
The people did

I had a $1600 write off from 2005 taxes last year when my purchase of CC stock in 1996 went closed for pennies on the dollar ...........AND I WAS Happy to do it.....

But please ...don't forget the little guys...the major fans....... and Walter Payton..........and all the people who cared at the time.....

[jonovision_man]

All the people who cared are probably the biggest reason KK stepped in... he's said as much. So you're right in that sense.

jono

[OW]

I know..KK is a gem

but I just wanted to make record of it. Thanks for the post that KK saw all the people who cared?

Moving forward ..... I hope its a GREAT year

[SurfaceUnits]

There is a reason why I'm looking forward to baseball more than CC. It's like retards running the school.The winter leagues are in action down in Venezuela, hit the effing road

[nrc]

Can you really say that with a straight face...??? Did you not see the financials? This was a company that was mired in red ink, it was going bankrupt in a hurry. The buy-out was going to be for peanuts, with the recognition that the series was going to zero with a bullet.


Of course I can say it with a straight face. The truth of the situation was that Forsythe wasn't going to allow Champ car to fail. He was going to convert champ car to a private company with himself as an owner. The details of how the ownership change happened are good fodder for the lemmings but not really important.

[pchall]

All the people who cared are probably the biggest reason KK stepped in... he's said as much. So you're right in that sense.

jono

That reminds me of all the work Steve (devilmaster) put into that internet petition that Forsythe's people took seriously and entered into evidence at the bankruptcy hearing. The passion of the fans does count and Kalkhoven and Forsythe undertand that.

Tony George and his toadies, on the other hand, thought that the IRL could just drag the champ car fanbase "kicking and screaming" to their series if they just could make champ car go away. They don't understand most racing fans at all, just those who have blind faith in and loyalty to IMS

[G.]

That reminds me of all the work Steve (devilmaster) put into that internet petition that Forsythe's people took seriously and entered into evidence at the bankruptcy hearing. The passion of the fans does count and Kalkhoven and Forsythe undertand that.

Tony George and his toadies, on the other hand, thought that the IRL could just drag the champ car fanbase "kicking and screaming" to their series if they just could make champ car go away. They don't understand most racing fans at all, just those who have blind faith in and loyalty to IMSIs the petition still around? I'd love to revisit it.

[pchall]

Is the petition still around? I'd love to revisit it.

Steve would know about that -- he must have a copy of the final document saved on his harddrive someplace. Whether it is still available on line is another question.

[jonovision_man]

Of course I can say it with a straight face. The truth of the situation was that Forsythe wasn't going to allow Champ car to fail. He was going to convert champ car to a private company with himself as an owner. The details of how the ownership change happened are good fodder for the lemmings but not really important.

When the Three Amigos saved ChampCar it was crystal clear that CART was headed for bankruptcy. We're talking losses in the tens of millions and a burn rate that was totally unsustainable.

I guess I don't really see the point of the distinction you're trying to draw here... I agree that actually putting CART into bankruptcy was a tactical move to facilitate the sale to GF et al, but is there any doubt where CART was heading without them?

jono

[datachicane]

I agree that actually putting CART into bankruptcy was a tactical move to facilitate the sale to GF et al, but is there any doubt where CART was heading without them?

jono

The distinction is this- the upcoming sale to GF et al was the very impetus for that unsustainable cash burn. No upcoming GF sale, no high-speed dumping of $$$.

The sale was the motivation, not a reaction.

[JoeBob]

Interesting note:

Hyundai is getting ready to enter the "low price luxury" wars with Lexus and Infiniti - they're getting a $30k V8 powered rear wheel drive car ready: http://www.autoblog.com/2007/01/25/spy-shots-2008-equus-shows-hyundai-is-serious-about-luxury/

Who knows if there is a connection... my money is still on Mazda, but with Hyundai getting serious about moving upscale, and the series racing in Korea, the deal could make sense.

[NismoZ]

Oh, no doubt. I've mentioned that several times here and it won't be long before Cosworth is producing engines for SOMEbody to run ChampCar. I'd like to think it is Mazda but with the Atlantic deal so new I doubt it. Nissan's participation would please me most, even as Infinity, but even though we used to joke about it, Hyundai could be the one. That little blurb about an upscale V-8 vehicle in Hyundai's lineup and the Cosworth engine for the 350Z could be big hints. How long before we start talking about Ansan or Japan again if this is indeed true?:D I have NO doubt KK is far less concerned abbout the Ford departure than many of us and has been in contact with others for quite awhile. Sooner rather than later, folks. Who gets ther name on the valve covers?:)

[G.]

Oh, no doubt. I've mentioned that several times here and it won't be long before Cosworth is producing engines for SOMEbody to run ChampCar. I'd like to think it is Mazda but with the Atlantic deal so new I doubt it. Nissan's participation would please me most, even as Infinity, but even though we used to joke about it, Hyundai could be the one. That little blurb about an upscale V-8 vehicle in Hyundai's lineup and the Cosworth engine for the 350Z could be big hints. How long before we start talking about Ansan or Japan again if this is indeed true?:D I have NO doubt KK is far less concerned abbout the Ford departure than many of us and has been in contact with others for quite awhile. Sooner rather than later, folks. Who gets ther name on the valve covers?:)I,,,,,hope,,,,you're right and not,,,,,just,,,, a dreamer.;)

[jcollins28]

I'm convinced it is Acura.

[formulaben]

I'm convinced it is Acura.

Hmmm, I predicted Fonda, but hadn't thought of the Acura branding...wouldn't that be funny though: Gomers in Fondas, but Champ Cars in Acuras. Somehow I find that appropo.

[NismoZ]

Oh. it'll be Asian...but ACURA!:eek: ...now THAT would be a sock removing moment!

[KLang]

After their efforts to sink the series a couple years ago, does Honda/Acura really make sense? I hope not anyway.

[jcollins28]

After their efforts to sink the series a couple years ago, does Honda/Acura really make sense? I hope not anyway.

What do you think all those meetings last year were about with Robert Clarke.

[KLang]

What do you think all those meetings last year were about with Robert Clarke.

Merger? Don't know. I hope that Champ Car knows better then to trust Robert Clarke.

[NismoZ]

Interesting scenerio, one I also considered but I believe he really was trying to push merger with his engine spec. If their agreement with The League is to or through '09, depending, then CC will not wait that long. The "Honda for them, Acura for us" idea while intriguing means they STILL face no competition. Can't see them entering LMP2 then CC in consecutive years and still blowing the wad in F-1. What does ..."an Asian manufacturer that is a better fit for CC's 3-day festival idea" mean? Does that sound more like a Nissan/drifting/tuner crowd?

[jonovision_man]

The distinction is this- the upcoming sale to GF et al was the very impetus for that unsustainable cash burn. No upcoming GF sale, no high-speed dumping of $$$.

The sale was the motivation, not a reaction.

That's a very serious claim. If shareholder's money was being spent in a frivolous manner to achieve bankruptcy so one particular shareholder could effectively steal their shares, then someone should be in prison.

A conspiracy theory at best, unless you have evidence. And if you do, I'd suggest talking to the police, not to us on a message board.

The fact is that CART was not profitable, not even close. Toyota and Honda went bye-bye and CART had to pay many tens of millions in team assistance to pull together a grid for the season. They spent money trying to get enough events, they spent money on teams, just to keep the thing going.

jono

[formulaben]

Merger? Don't know. I hope that Champ Car knows better then to trust Robert Clarke.

I don't think trust will be an issue if you're just taking their money to put the name on the covers. They've always advertised, so although I hated the way they have behaved the last few years, it would be a better fit and they'd promote more than Ford, IMHO.

[Don Quixote]

Never happen, but it would be funny if Honda forced a IRL/Champcar weekend at midohio, with the fast cars running on Sunday.

[nrc]

The distinction is this- the upcoming sale to GF et al was the very impetus for that unsustainable cash burn. No upcoming GF sale, no high-speed dumping of $$$.

The sale was the motivation, not a reaction.

I don't believe the deliberate cash burn to make way for bankruptcy theory, either. If you look back at the 2003 season Forsythe and Pook were very much at odds. Pook wanted to save Champ car as a public company and Forsythe was just waiting for the situation to be right for a buy-out.

Pook tried to save the corporation by spending money, and that played right into Forsythe's hand. If he had cut expenses and he probably could have sustained the company for a while. Eventually that would have diluted the stock value for Forsythe and Co. to complete their buy-out. If anything, the shareholders probably would have ended up with less than they did.

Jono, to go back to your original comment, my point is that Champ car has no less "survived" than any other racing sanctioning body that requires cash infusions from the owner to keep going. The difference is that as a public company the legal hurdles for Champ car were higher and more public.

[Insomniac]

Merger? Don't know. I hope that Champ Car knows better then to trust Robert Clarke.

Well, this time Honda's damage might only be superficial? CC would still have their engines, and if they had a long term deal, that would also bring some stability for a few years. Granted, you can get that from another manufacturer as well.

[devilmaster]

Steve would know about that -- he must have a copy of the final document saved on his harddrive someplace. Whether it is still available on line is another question.

I had to go looking for it, but i did find it on an old HD... I really should houseclean the hard drives one of these days....

Looking on the last page, I noticed something..... I guess when I edited out the fake names I forgot Fidel Castro :laugh:

The Champcar Grand Prix of Havana powered by Monte Cristos #4 - nice ring, no? ;) (haas will be all over that)

[Ed_Severson]

Whoever we end up with, it's not going to be Honda or Nissan in any way, shape, or form. We were told that (in no particular order) Mazda, Hyundai, Mercedes, and Cadillac were interested.

[KLang]

Whoever we end up with, it's not going to be Honda or Nissan in any way, shape, or form.

:thumbup: Glad to read that about Honda!

[Spicoli]

Whoever we end up with, it's not going to be Honda or Nissan in any way, shape, or form. We were told that (in no particular order) Mazda, Hyundai, Mercedes, and Cadillac were interested.

I vote mercedes. That way everyone has a Kabloweee every weekend.

[Ed_Severson]

:thumbup: Glad to read that about Honda!

That makes one of us. Personally, I'd much rather have them than either Hyundai or Cadillac (or many others which were not mentioned by Mr. Johnson).

I think Mazda makes the most sense given their involvement with Champ Car through the Atlantic series. I'd venture to guess that Mazda and Hyundai are the front-runners, but that's just a hunch.

[NismoZ]

Agree on those 2. Mazda's it. Ordering up a CX-7 as soon as an announcement is made.;)

[Racing Truth]

Mercedes?! Mercedes?!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Now that I've had a good laugh at that absurd (IMHO) notion, let's look at reality.

Mazda and Hyundai seem realistic. In and of itself, that's fine, and a simple acknowledgement of the economic reality of modern OW, but it IS a step down. Question: Would we not have, rightly, mocked the IRL for going after mftrs such as these two about 5 yrs. ago? I'm guessing so.

Snark aside, I don't think things are too bad right now, certainly not as bad as some think. There will be more cars (at least 2-3) and more teams to go with a great new car. BUT the optimists had expectations that were WAYYY too high. The DP01 is not going to be a panacea, and estimates of 24 or more cars were well,,,,appropriate fare,,,,,for you know,,,,who. That and the idea that "If Kalkhoven says so, it must be true," is foolish too. Anyone expecting instant or even rapid turnarounds is delusional.

And realize that CART c. 1993 is gone for good. What we hope to build now will be quite different and, I suspect, still not as compelling as the "good old days," but that doesn't mean it won't be good on its own. Just keep expectations in check.

[formulaben]

MG Rover. :eek:

[formulaben]

Mazda's it. Ordering up a CX-7 as soon as an announcement is made.;)

Make that 2 of us. No BS. But I'll have to insist on an '08 model with the iPod adapter and other misc improvements. :thumbup:

[pchall]

The Champcar Grand Prix of Havana powered by Monte Cristos #4 - nice ring, no? ;) (haas will be all over that)

A street race on the Malecon would be a great cruise ship destination.

http://www.silhouet.com/motorsport/tracks/havana.jpg

They raced for the sportscar manufacturer's championship along the coast line in Havana in 1957.

[NismoZ]

Is that the one where Castro kidnapped Fangio?