Windows Vista

[racermike]

Installed Vista Biz last night, and up and running with no complaints so far.

Quite the task taking inventory of all the software I needed to reload, and the only issues so far, are the HP drivers for my Printer. Had to turn the "Aero" look off, until I am able to upgrade to a better Video card. (I have a nVidia ti-4400 128mb card in there now, which is Ok, but need a 256mb card)

Will see how things go in the next couple of days, as I know some problems will start to crop up.

[ChampcarShark]

As long as it is "created" by microsoft there will be problems.

I will wait till the second service pack before I think about win vista.

[grungex]

I still haven't been able to convince myself I need to upgrade from Win2K to XP...

[cameraman]

The research network here requires the business version to function but the hospital network can't use any version of Vista because the server based "information management solution":rolleyes: doesn't play well with Vista. That and 90% of the hospital's computers don't have the ram or graphics power to run it anyway.

[Cam]

I still haven't been able to convince myself I need to upgrade from Win2K to XP...

Same with me at my former place of employment. Network sings along nicely with 2K.... Nobody has shown me any compelling reason to go to XP let alone Vista.

I have been playing exclusively with the beta version on my laptop of Vista since Monday night when I got locked in this hospital room, but the only reason for that is the public wireless net is barely visable with 1 of 5 bars @ 56M, but I can only run this wireless card @ 11M under linux so it keeps disconnecting. :flame:

To say I am underwhelmed would be an understatement!

[indyfan31]

We had a couple of Microsoft reps come to our work to demo Vista for us.
Biggest damn software company on the planet .... they had to borrow a projector and then our network for Internet access. :rolleyes:

They started by showing off all the little "apps" that have been developed independently by users ... they call 'em "Gadgets". Hmmmmm. At that point I pretty much lost interest. Although I did notice the guy said "COOL" about 400 times in 2 hours. Unimaginable resources and they have to blatantly steal ideas from the computer company with 5% of the market.

[ChampcarShark]

We had a couple of Microsoft reps come to our work to demo Vista for us.
Biggest damn software company on the planet .... Unimaginable resources and they have to blatantly steal ideas from the computer company with 5% of the market.

that's how M$$ got started. Too bad apple does not want to share production of pcs with other companys.

[Insomniac]

that's how M$$ got started. Too bad apple does not want to share production of pcs with other companys.

Right, and Apple didn't steal their ideas from Xerox... :rolleyes:

[indyfan31]

Right, and Apple didn't steal their ideas from Xerox... :rolleyes:

They stole two, the GUI and the mouse. And at the time Apple was two guys working out of a garage, not a multi-billion dollar company. Besides, even Xerox didn't think it was such a big deal.

In any case I don't see us switching to Vista any time soon, we're still in transition from 2k to XP.

[Insomniac]

They stole two, the GUI and the mouse. And at the time Apple was two guys working out of a garage, not a multi-billion dollar company. Besides, even Xerox didn't think it was such a big deal.

In any case I don't see us switching to Vista any time soon, we're still in transition from 2k to XP.

My point is, they all take ideas from each other. To act like Apple is some big innovator and Microsoft just takes everyone's ideas is ridiculous. Jobs just likes to get the fanboys all riled up by taking shots at everyone. If Gates gave keynotes like that, people would be ripping on him.

I don't see us switching to Vista. We went from NT to XP. I imagine our next step is the OS after Vista.

[Cam]

*popcorn* :eek:

[nrc]

They stole two, the GUI and the mouse. And at the time Apple was two guys working out of a garage, not a multi-billion dollar company. Besides, even Xerox didn't think it was such a big deal.

In any case I don't see us switching to Vista any time soon, we're still in transition from 2k to XP.


1982: Apple becomes the first personal computer company to reach $1 billion in annual sales.http://www.answers.com/topic/apple-computer-inc

So yes, by the time they were stealing the ideas for the Lisa and Mac, Apple was a billion dollar company - not two guys operating out of a garage. And Xerox thought it was a big enough deal to sue Apple. While Apple was fighting Xerox, they turned around and sued Microsoft and Apple for copying their "invention."

[racermike]

** update

48 hours in, and very smooth so far.

My system specs

P4-2.0 Northwood
Intel D845WN Mobo
1.5gb SDRAM
(1) 200gb Maxtor HD (C/D)
(1) 80gb Maxtor HD (E/F/G)
PNY nVidia Ti-4000 128m Video

[indyfan31]

Is this right?
Full version of Windows Vista Ultimate costs $399?
The upgrade version of Vista Ultimate costs $259 (if you have an XP CD).

I don't remember what XP-pro cost when it came out.

[extramundane]

It's been rather flaky on my Toshiba Tecra tablet. It's having trouble waking up from sleep mode- 4 times out of 5 it wakes up, but then nothing will run, won't even restart properly, forcing a hard shutdown. Menus and such still work, but launching an app or command does nothing. It also seems to drop wireless connections more frequently than XP did.

That said, this is an upgrade, which I did purposefully to test how badly XP upgraded to Vista. I suspect the clean install I'm doing next month will work out far better. Too bad the video on this thing is entry-level.

[KLang]

I doubt they will upgrade us at work anytime soon.

We are due for new desktops at home. Planning for next summer. Hopefully you folks will get all the bugs found by then. ;)

[Insomniac]

Is this right?
Full version of Windows Vista Ultimate costs $399?
The upgrade version of Vista Ultimate costs $259 (if you have an XP CD).

I don't remember what XP-pro cost when it came out.

That's right. Ultimate is kind of like MCE and Proffesional combined, I think. Home Basic and Home Premium match up with XP Home and Pro respectively.

Also, note that to upgrade, having a CD isn't enough. The previous version has to be installed.

Also, you can get an OEM copy for $200.

XP Pro was $300/200.

[indyfan31]

That's right. Ultimate is kind of like MCE and Proffesional combined, I think. Home Basic and Home Premium match up with XP Home and Pro respectively.

Also, note that to upgrade, having a CD isn't enough. The previous version has to be installed.

Also, you can get an OEM copy for $200.

XP Pro was $300/200.

From what I read, Home Basic is useless. Home Premium is like XP-home, and the "Ultimate" matches up with XP-Pro.

[cameraman]

Vista Business is more like XP Pro. It has the networking and remote desktop bits you need for working in a corporate lan. What the business version does not have is the Windows Media Center and DVD creation software that is part of Ultimate. Home basic is totally stripped down to bare bones booting of the machine.

$199 to upgrade from XP Pro to Vista Business

[Indy]

Damn, this makes me happy to be a Mac user. What a freaking mess.

[chop456]

Speaking of stupid Windows stuff, can someone explain to me why it's next to impossible to run the settings/transfer wizard between 2 computers by simply running a network cable between them? Like I have a female/female serial cable laying around. :rolleyes:

[Insomniac]

Vista Business is more like XP Pro. It has the networking and remote desktop bits you need for working in a corporate lan. What the business version does not have is the Windows Media Center and DVD creation software that is part of Ultimate. Home basic is totally stripped down to bare bones booting of the machine.

$199 to upgrade from XP Pro to Vista Business

That makes sense. Thanks for the info.

So you're looking at:

Windows Vista Ultimate ($400/$260/$200) Retail/Upgrade/OEM
Windows Vista Business ($300/$200/$150)
Windows Vista Home Premium ($240/$160/$120)
Windows Home Basic ($200/$100/$100)

I also believe ultimate contains all of the versions, and may actually determine if your hardware can handle ultimate and install a "lower" version instead if it can't.

[Warlock!]

I still haven't been able to convince myself I need to upgrade from Win2K to XP...
:waves:

Windows 98 at home...

[chop456]

computerworld.com - "Don't Buy It" (http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9009124&intsrc=hm_list)

[Insomniac]

:waves:

Windows 98 at home...

As long as what you have works fine, why even bother to upgrade? I only upgraded to Win2k from 98SE for stability. The rest of my machines came with XP Pro so I use it. I don't think I have anything that requires XP, but then again, having the latest (until today) didn't require checking if it would work on anything older. ;)

I'll get Vista when I get a new PC, whenever that is.

[Insomniac]

computerworld.com - "Don't Buy It" (http://computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9009124&intsrc=hm_list)

I don't buy the incomplete thing. Microsoft has delayed it to make sure it's done and ready for prime time. They delayed it past the school buying and holiday buying periods. I personally feel they're working on SP1 more to get SP1 out than because Vista needs SP1. Many IT Managers wait for the first SP, so they want to get it out there sooner rather than later.

I also enjoy how after all their reasons, they then add switch to a Mac. Vista is expensive, Vista wants a new PC, Vista is time-consuming, Windows XP isn't obsolete so....buy a Mac.

[oddlycalm]

Wake me up when a functional advantage (to me) materializes and SP2 arrives.

oc

[racermike]

still running good here

one small glitch with hp printer drivers, thats it

[Joelski]

Speaking of stupid Windows stuff, can someone explain to me why it's next to impossible to run the settings/transfer wizard between 2 computers by simply running a network cable between them? Like I have a female/female serial cable laying around. :rolleyes:

Because you need a crossover cable, not a regular RJ-45 ethernet cable to communicate between two NIC's properly. You'd get the same stupid look from two macs trying to go tx to tx. Stupid windows owners indeed. :rolleyes:

[Wabbit]

Too bad apple does not want to share production of pcs with other companys.

Apple did license the production of the Mac to other companies (around 1996-98?). What they found was that the other companies were taking market share away from Apple rather than Microsoft, so they stopped. Apple wants all the marbles. Now, given that, Apple has better control of the hardware that their software runs on, and less driver issues.

The biggest issues that Windows has is compatibility with all of the various PC hardware out there. It's up to the individual hardware manufacturers to write the drivers. Some manufacturers will get WHQL (Windows hardware quality lab) certification on their drivers. These are the hardware components you want to get. The manufacturers who don't get WHQL certification are the ones you usually have driver problems with.

[oddlycalm]

My favorite question Jon Stewart asked Bill Gates on the Daily Show was "will the beta version make the user sterile?" :D

oc

[Insomniac]

Apple did license the production of the Mac to other companies (around 1996-98?). What they found was that the other companies were taking market share away from Apple rather than Microsoft, so they stopped. Apple wants all the marbles. Now, given that, Apple has better control of the hardware that their software runs on, and less driver issues.

Also, they can abandon old stuff pretty fast.

[chop456]

Because you need a crossover cable, not a regular RJ-45 ethernet cable to communicate between two NIC's properly. You'd get the same stupid look from two macs trying to go tx to tx. Stupid windows owners indeed. :rolleyes:

So why doesn't Windows tell me that? It wants to keep its valuable secrets? :tony:

[Joelski]

So why doesn't Windows tell me that? It wants to keep its valuable secrets? :tony:


Does your mac change your depends and shake twice when you pee too?:tony:

[Bob_S.]

I have something in common with Warlock!.:rofl:
No upgrades until this box starts to smoke.:p

[Joelski]

I have something in common with Warlock!.:rofl:
No upgrades until this box starts to smoke.:p



:chirp: [/smokedetector]









:D

[Cam]

So why doesn't Windows tell me that? It wants to keep its valuable secrets? :tony:

You are blurring the line between software and hardware. :gomer: Don't be a cheapskate and go buy yourself a router then you don't need a crossover cable. :p

[chop456]

I have a router. Unfortunately it's in the basement and this was something that needed to be done quickly. It was faster to configure/download everything by hand.

All you need is a firewire cable for Macs. And it holds your hand. ;)

[Insomniac]

So why doesn't Windows tell me that? It wants to keep its valuable secrets? :tony:

Wow, it was that? You weren't using a crossover cable? I assumed you were saying that you could only use a serial cable. Also, you have to use a null modem cable, not a standard serial cable.

[Insomniac]

Oops...now you don't need an old copy to use the upgrade version. :)

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

[Joelski]

I have a router. Unfortunately it's in the basement and this was something that needed to be done quickly. It was faster to configure/download everything by hand.

All you need is a firewire cable for Macs. And it holds your hand. ;)

I don't understand why it needs to be easier?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/easytransfer.mspx

[Joelski]

^^^ In addition to the approved methods you can use a null modem cable, RJ-45 crossover cable, flash drive, and yes ghostrider, even an iPod.:tony:

[ChampcarShark]

I have something in common with Warlock!.:rofl:
No upgrades until this box starts to smoke.:p


Add me to that list, I still have a PC my kids use to play and surf the net running Win98 with No problems at all (and sometimes runs even better than my fairly new (1 year old) Win XP). [but, don't tell Bill Gates]

[ChampcarShark]

Apple did license the production of the Mac to other companies (around 1996-98?). What they found was that the other companies were taking market share away from Apple rather than Microsoft, so they stopped. Apple wants all the marbles. Now, given that, Apple has better control of the hardware that their software runs on, and less driver issues.

The biggest issues that Windows has is compatibility with all of the various PC hardware out there. It's up to the individual hardware manufacturers to write the drivers. Some manufacturers will get WHQL (Windows hardware quality lab) certification on their drivers. These are the hardware components you want to get. The manufacturers who don't get WHQL certification are the ones you usually have driver problems with.

Thank You Wabbit, I knew you had all the answers. :thumbup:

[eiregosod]

Vista needs a GIG of RAM to run, I bet there's layers of dummy code surrounding a routine that keeps adding two numbers together so one half of your dual-core processor is working flat out.

I'm still on McWindows 98 :gomer, might upgrade to McWIndows OSX :gomer:

[Joelski]

Vista needs a GIG of RAM to run, I bet there's layers of dummy code surrounding a routine that keeps adding two numbers together so one half of your dual-core processor is working flat out.

I'm still on McWindows 98 :gomer, might upgrade to McWIndows OSX :gomer:

A Gig is pretty much the minimum for any late model computer nowadays, PC or Mac. But thanks for your Win98 users perspective. :gomer:

[extramundane]

Vista needs a GIG of RAM to run,

I've been running it just fine on a 512MB test unit. It's not going to win any awards on that machine, but for IE & Office (which is all most of our teachers use anyway), it's adequate.

[eiregosod]

A Gig is pretty much the minimum for any late model computer nowadays, PC or Mac. But thanks for your Win98 users perspective. :gomer:

how's that "more processing power than the Appollo Space Mission" stuff working out? :gomer:

[Joelski]

how's that "more processing power than the Appollo Space Mission" stuff working out? :gomer:

http://www.lottaliving.com/tvshow/PeeWeeHerman.jpg

Weak, but not unexpected. :gomer:

[TravelGal]

This one is for you, Joelski. I'm the only person on the planet that misses Windows Me. It ran the best of any op system I've ever had. It worked the way I thought it should. Fast. Dependable. Logical. Sigh, I still miss it and wish I had not upgraded to XP. :p

For that reason, I'm not opposed to Vista when the time comes because I don't like XP so what's the dif? Like Warlock! and others, however, that time will be a LONG time from now (I hope).

[Joelski]

This one is for you, Joelski. I'm the only person on the planet that misses Windows Me. It ran the best of any op system I've ever had. It worked the way I thought it should. Fast. Dependable. Logical. Sigh, I still miss it and wish I had not upgraded to XP. :p

For that reason, I'm not opposed to Vista when the time comes because I don't like XP so what's the dif? Like Warlock! and others, however, that time will be a LONG time from now (I hope).

Gal: I believe you truly are the only person that misses that travesty. I sent all my copies back to m$, or I would ship you mine just to get rid of them! I actually did go back to Win98 SE after finishing the beta of ME as it was crap from Alpha all the way through every tech refresh. I used XP from Tech beta one on, and have done the same with Vista. The best benefit Vista brings is it leaves legacy compatibility behind, therefore, it will obviously run best on a new computer. Many people will complain that it doesn't run properly on a computer over three years old with obscure hardware and that's fine. An older computer will definitely be more comfortable with the OS it was engineered to run. Vista actually gains stability by not having to support as many hardware/software configurations; the same reason macs run well. If you enjoy what your computer does for you, that's great; it is nobody's job to degrade or promote somebody else's stuff.

[Wabbit]

I had the opposite experience. Windows 98/SE were both pieces of crap. Windows ME was very stable. I went to XP because I started dealing with 4+GB data files and needed NTFS.

[Ankf00]

windows ME was the slowest POS ever. 2000 was 1000 times better at the time.

[Insomniac]

windows ME was the slowest POS ever. 2000 was 1000 times better at the time.

I went from 98SE to ME back to 98SE pretty fast. Then Win2k. Didn't know what real stability was until then. Using XP SP2 now, rock solid for me as well.

[Ankf00]

my sis made me "upgrade" her law school laptop from '00 to ME, night and day difference in suckitude. and I still had 95 on my laptop...

[oddlycalm]

I still miss it and wish I had not upgraded to XP. You do know that you can make XT look and "work" exactly like ME, right?

oc

[Joelski]

You do know that you can make XT look and "work" exactly like ME, right?

oc

3 lb engineers hammer?

:D

[TravelGal]

You do know that you can make XT look and "work" exactly like ME, right?

oc

Sorta. It looks like it but it doesn't exactly work like it. I'm not a fan of all the puffy balloony soft edges cr@p so I straightened it out as well as I could.

Since I'm not calculating the speed of spacecraft the way Ank is, the difference in speed was not so noticeable between the two but I do have to (grudginly) admit that there are some features that are better with XP.

I have 3 computers and if they don't all work on the same op system, I'm too befuddled to deal with life so I when I bought a new one with XP, the other two got upgrades as well. Probably do the same thing in a year or two when I replace something with a Vista-equipped system.

[JLMannin]

Vista Business is more like XP Pro. It has the networking and remote desktop bits you need for working in a corporate lan. What the business version does not have is the Windows Media Center and DVD creation software that is part of Ultimate. Home basic is totally stripped down to bare bones booting of the machine.

$199 to upgrade from XP Pro to Vista Business

What are the differences between Ulitmate and Business beyond the media center and DVD creation software? Or is that the only difference?

[cameraman]

Handy dandy chart (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx)

[TravelGal]

It's so handy it's dandy. I can hardly wait to enjoy all those things. Actually, I can wait. But thanks for playing anyway.

[thank heaven I've got geeks with broad shoulders, understanding minds and generous hearts who will figure this out before I ever approach it]

[cameraman]

I'm not buying it either. I have a brand new MacBook Pro running XP Pro and so it will remain until I replace this machine in ~5 years...

[racermike]

Here we go, the first Vista major flaw .. (not on my PC)

If you do not have XP, or are just building a Vista capable system, you can now just buy the upgrade, and get it installed without having a previous windows version.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

[Cam]

Here we go, the first Vista major flaw .. (not on my PC)

If you do not have XP, or are just building a Vista capable system, you can now just buy the upgrade, and get it installed without having a previous windows version.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932


Microsoft internal documentation reveals workaround D'OH! :gomer:

[nrc]

Handy dandy chart (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/editions/choose.mspx)

Where's the checkbox for deleting your software anytime they feel like it?

[cameraman]

Wouldn't know, I'm reading this using Mac OS 10.4.8:D

[Insomniac]

Here we go, the first Vista major flaw .. (not on my PC)

If you do not have XP, or are just building a Vista capable system, you can now just buy the upgrade, and get it installed without having a previous windows version.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

Welcome to 2 days ago. :p


Oops...now you don't need an old copy to use the upgrade version. :)

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932

BTW--MS might still nail you later. Update it to make you enter a valid XP key or kick you back into time bomb mode. Ohhh, if you're going to ignore the license, you can pirate it as well. ;) Otherwise, this flaw makes a clean install with Vista Upgrade a little faster. (Vista twice vs. XP then Vista)

[RARules]

The biggest issues that Windows has is compatibility with all of the various PC hardware out there. It's up to the individual hardware manufacturers to write the drivers. Some manufacturers will get WHQL (Windows hardware quality lab) certification on their drivers. These are the hardware components you want to get. The manufacturers who don't get WHQL certification are the ones you usually have driver problems with.

The big problem with Windows vs. the Mac is that MS (in their quest for performance over security and stability) puts drivers (even print drivers) in the kernel. Nothing should be in the kernel except the OS and critical hardware drivers. One of my folks at work was attempting to print a MSWD document, and every time she did so, at page #27, the PC would go black and reboot. Repeatably. This means that either MSWD or the print driver (or both) has code in the kernel. This is Win2K. Now with Vista, they have "trusted" drivers. But they're still in the kernel. Bad architecture.

In comparison, Apple has their act together. Way together. Also, if you've paid any attention, you'd find that Apple always ships their products when they say they will. Not years late. You can count on their delivery promises.

One more thing. Look at Vista and you'll see plenty of compatibility issues with earlier applicaitons. In contrast, Apple goes from PPC to Intel CPU (a major move!) and when they actually release the new machines, old PPC-based applications run just fine under Intel CPUs.

You can probably guess what I use at home.

[Insomniac]

The big problem with Windows vs. the Mac is that MS (in their quest for performance over security and stability) puts drivers (even print drivers) in the kernel. Nothing should be in the kernel except the OS and critical hardware drivers. One of my folks at work was attempting to print a MSWD document, and every time she did so, at page #27, the PC would go black and reboot. Repeatably. This means that either MSWD or the print driver (or both) has code in the kernel. This is Win2K. Now with Vista, they have "trusted" drivers. But they're still in the kernel. Bad architecture.

In comparison, Apple has their act together. Way together. Also, if you've paid any attention, you'd find that Apple always ships their products when they say they will. Not years late. You can count on their delivery promises.

One more thing. Look at Vista and you'll see plenty of compatibility issues with earlier applicaitons. In contrast, Apple goes from PPC to Intel CPU (a major move!) and when they actually release the new machines, old PPC-based applications run just fine under Intel CPUs.

You can probably guess what I use at home.

That is not a problem with the Windows architecture, it's a poorly written driver. Apple has a much easier time with quality control because they have much less hardware to deal with. In addition, since they have such little market share, mostly big players with experienced driver developers are writing drivers.

It's hard to be late on product delivery when you won't acknowledge a products existence until it is ready to ship. Also, you are looking at Apple through rose colored glasses. OS X was delayed often. They worked on it for 5 to 6 years. How many things transitioned right over from OS 9?

A quick search on Apple Insider shows:
Apple delays shipments of new 17-inch MacBook Pros (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2217)
Apple delays 30-inch Cinema Display into October (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=634)

And my favorite, which investors probably loved:
Apple delays annual report due to options probe (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2308)

How about a review of the third version of OS X: http://arstechnica.com/reviews/os/macosx-10.2.ars/14

It was not as polished as it is today, after its sixth version. Apple also was cross developing an x86 version of OS X from the beginning.


It has long been rumored that Apple was keeping a nice little Intel box tucked away somewhere running OS X, and it turns out this is true. Speaking to developers, Jobs said that every build of OS X has also been built on the Intel platform. Jobs said that Apple had dedicated teams for a "just in case scenario," and that the company had decided a long time ago to make sure that the OS was platform independent. This "secret double life," as Jobs referred to it, means that a transition can be done smoothly over the next few years, and Jobs seemed to exude some confidence, showing Tiger running on an Intel demo box.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050606-4974.html

[racermike]

10 days in, and it runs pretty smooth on my P4-2.0 machine.

I just about have all my programs reinstalled that I used on a daily basis, and nothing has crashed or locked up.

[cameraman]

In comparison, Apple has their act together. Way together. Having run Apple computers for the last 27 years I can very safely say that Apple has screwed up numerous times and often in quite spectacular fashion.
Also, if you've paid any attention, you'd find that Apple always ships their products when they say they will. Not years late. You can count on their delivery promises. You have got to be kidding. Stevie boy stood up and promised 3 Ghz processors, it never happened.
One more thing. Look at Vista and you'll see plenty of compatibility issues with earlier applicaitons. In contrast, Apple goes from PPC to Intel CPU (a major move!) and when they actually release the new machines, old PPC-based applications run just fine under Intel CPUs. But all the OS 9 applications were cut lose. And "just fine" can be glacially slow, just try using some 100,000 line spreadsheet in Excel running under Rosetta, it's bloody unusable.

I've got XP Pro running on all my new Macintoshes at the same time as OS 10.4. I greatly prefer using the Apple side of the machine but there is no small list of things that the XP Pro side does better. Truth be told I am often happiest using the X11 system and good old command lines. Nice thing about the Apple is I can do all three at the same time.

Getting back to Vista, it provides absolutely nothing that I don't already have between Mac OS 10.4 and Windows XP Pro. There is no way in hell I'm spending several hundred dollars to get not much more than processor-intensive eye candy.

[nrc]

Apple did the smart thing and adopted an open source BSD Unix kernel. Unfortunately in many respects they're not much different than Microsoft - "How can we lock you into our channels."

[chop456]

More fun:


Windows Vista Home Basic (Upgrade) $99

Windows Vista Home Basic (Upgrade) £99.99 :eek:

"What's a pound worth?"

"Dunno. Probably about a dollar. Price it the same." :gomer:

And you can't "upgrade" from XP Pro to Home Basic? :shakehead

[Insomniac]

Apple did the smart thing and adopted an open source BSD Unix kernel. Unfortunately in many respects they're not much different than Microsoft - "How can we lock you into our channels."

I was just reading something that while OS X is using parts of BSD in their kernel, all the other Unix like stuff is akin to running Cygwin on Windows except it comes integrated out of the box. I always thought OS X ran on top of BSD, but I guess not. It's a testament to the hard work Apple put into it though.

[Insomniac]

More fun:


:eek:

"What's a pound worth?"

"Dunno. Probably about a dollar. Price it the same." :gomer:

And you can't "upgrade" from XP Pro to Home Basic? :shakehead

Electronic stuff is more expensive in England/Europe it seems. They keep the same numbers, but change the symbol. Weak dollar. :(

[chop456]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=8568


First Vista market share figures
Researcher reports Vista share in February

PC Advisor staff

Nearly one percent of internet-connected PCs were running Windows Vista in February, according to research from Net Applications, making it the sixth most-popular operating system.

The operating system was released to businesses last November, and only made its consumer debut on 30 January, but Net Applications analyst Vince Vizzacarro said it’s proving a hit on new PCs. However, the upgrade market has yet to bite, according to Vizzacarro.

“It looks like the market is buying Vista on new PC purchases, but there isn't a significant percentage of people upgrading existing PCs. I expect this trend to continue through the rest of 2007."

"Sales are strong among people who don't have a choice." :laugh:

[Cam]

http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=8568



"Sales are strong among people who don't have a choice." :laugh:

Yup. As I said in another thread. Just try finding a new machine now that doesn't have Vista on it. Maybe they should all come preloaded with that M O N O P O L Y game too. :D

[Racing Truth]

windows ME was the slowest POS ever. 2000 was 1000 times better at the time.

Old post, but yes indeed. Not to mention, for me anyhow, it had a habit of crashing easily.

XP= worlds better

[nrc]

Yup. As I said in another thread. Just try finding a new machine now that doesn't have Vista on it. Maybe they should all come preloaded with that M O N O P O L Y game too. :D
http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-127-235-02.jpg

[Cam]

http://images10.newegg.com/NeweggImage/productimage/13-127-235-02.jpg

OK.... I'll bite! WTF is that? (And yes I know it's a MoBo....)

[nrc]

OK.... I'll bite! WTF is that? (And yes I know it's a MoBo....)

Exactly! A motherboard. Just add case, video, drives, cpu, and memory and presto system with no Vista installed! :D

[Cam]

Exactly! A motherboard. Just add case, video, drives, cpu, and memory and presto system with no Vista installed! :D

That's all fine and dandy for prop heads like us.. Doesnt hep yer average Joe. ;)

[pfc_m_drake]

OK.... I'll bite! WTF is that? (And yes I know it's a MoBo....)

It's an Abit (or is it abit now?) AW8D (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.asp?Image=13%2D127%2D235%2D02%2Ejpg%2C13 %2D127%2D235%2D03%2Ejpg%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D04%2Ejp g%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D05%2Ejpg%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D0 6%2Ejpg%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D07%2Ejpg&CurImage=13%2D127%2D235%2D04%2Ejpg&Description=ABIT+AW8D+LGA+775+Intel+975X+ATX+Intel +Motherboard+%2D+Retail)

And as a personal rant, I used to LOVE Abit motherboards...for many many years they were the only board I would use in my system builds. I know they've had financial trouble of late, but look at that board:

The floppy drive and extra PCI-E power connector are in the absolute worst possible place you could possibly put them. You can argue that you can put it in one of the right-hand facing ATX cases, and then they'd be at the 'top' since the board is then physically 'upside down'. But in this case, that puts the 4-pin ATX connector (which MUST be connected at all times) at the bottom...so you're no better off.

Sad to say it, but I think Abit has gone the way of the dodo...and abit might not be far behind.

[Insomniac]

That's all fine and dandy for prop heads like us.. Doesnt hep yer average Joe. ;)

You can call up Dell and ask for no OS. :P

[Cam]

You can call up Dell and ask for no OS. :P

Dell sucks! Will never buy Dell again... EVEN if they do support open aource... :flame:

[pfc_m_drake]

Dell sucks! Will never buy Dell again... EVEN if they do support open aource... :flame:
I don't know if you saw this, but they've even backed up from their position on that:

http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=130007NAXBME

[Cam]

I don't know if you saw this, but they've even backed up from their position on that:

http://www.newsfactor.com/story.xhtml?story_id=130007NAXBME

Yep... I did see that... But I have been don\e with them for 3/4 years now... They just suck and I will not recommend them to anyone that asks.

[typed from a Dell laptop that I absolutely hate]

[nrc]

It's an Abit (or is it abit now?) AW8D (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.asp?Image=13%2D127%2D235%2D02%2Ejpg%2C13 %2D127%2D235%2D03%2Ejpg%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D04%2Ejp g%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D05%2Ejpg%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D0 6%2Ejpg%2C13%2D127%2D235%2D07%2Ejpg&CurImage=13%2D127%2D235%2D04%2Ejpg&Description=ABIT+AW8D+LGA+775+Intel+975X+ATX+Intel +Motherboard+%2D+Retail)

And as a personal rant, I used to LOVE Abit motherboards...for many many years they were the only board I would use in my system builds. I know they've had financial trouble of late, but look at that board:

I've always used Abit boards with good results, but I haven't built anything in 3 years so I'm unware of any problems that may have come up since then.


The floppy drive and extra PCI-E power connector are in the absolute worst possible place you could possibly put them. Maybe they're punishing you for installing a floppy drive. :) I don't understand the PCI-E power problem. Most builders like connections near the edge of the board and that's near the edge close to the PCI-E slot. Anyway, I'm not recommending this particular board so maybe when I get around to shopping mother boards again (hopefully not for a couple more years) I'll arrive at the same conclusion on Abit.

[pfc_m_drake]

I've always used Abit boards with good results, but I haven't built anything in 3 years so I'm unware of any problems that may have come up since then.

Maybe they're punishing you for installing a floppy drive. :) I don't understand the PCI-E power problem. Most builders like connections near the edge of the board and that's near the edge close to the PCI-E slot. Anyway, I'm not recommending this particular board so maybe when I get around to shopping mother boards again (hopefully not for a couple more years) I'll arrive at the same conclusion on Abit.
Abit was, without question, the BEST motherboard manufacturer for a long time (first to introduce jumperless design, tremendous overclocking ability, corresponding unparalled stability at stock settings).

Then about 2 years ago, Oskar Wu (who was Abit's lead motherboard designer/engineer) left Abit and went to DFI. Abit's product line has suffered accordingly.

The problem with that PCI-E power connector being located there is the following (and this probably isn't clear to you if you haven't built recently): That power connector is needed when you run dual video cards. You then have 3 scenarios (and you have to picture this in your mind):

1) You either have to run the power cable over the top of both video cards to get there.

2) You can route the power connection all the way along the edges of the motherboard all the way down and around to get there. However, especially in taller cases, the power cables on your power supply often aren't long enough to make that whole run. You can add an extension cable, but that's not recommended (there's typically a blurb in the manual about the power requirements of dual video cards being high and therefore using extension cables from the power supply isn't advisable).

3) You can cut a hole in the motherboard tray and run the cable along the back side of the case down to the connector. Obviously this involves modifying your case.

I typically cut holes in my motherboard trays to run the wires anyway, but this means rather than cutting 1 hole for both the 4-pin ATX connector and the PCI-E connector, you need 2 holes (1 for each).

Is it a make-or-break? No. Does abit lose *my* $$$ to another manufacturer due to what I consider an inferior physical board arrangement? Yep.

Like I said...it's a personal thing. The average person won't care one lick :)

[racermike]

I have always preferred asus and intel boards.

Asus for performance and Intel for stability.

[nrc]

The problem with that PCI-E power connector being located there is the following (and this probably isn't clear to you if you haven't built recently): That power connector is needed when you run dual video cards.
Right, I haven't given a thought to PCI-E or dual video cards. I get good frame rates in Quake 4 and Half-Life 2 and I won't be running anything as graphics and CPU intensive as the Vista desktop anytime soon. :p

Thanks for the latest on Abit - pity. :( I'll definitely shop carefully before my next MB purchase.

[devilmaster]

I have preferred asus myself, but have used older abits when I was more into building systems years ago.

I'm just working in my new system now. A post a few days ago talked about a HD failure, but it turned out to be a MB failure that really wacked out all parts in the old system.

So, Asus P5PE board, 2.8g dual core chip, 1g ram, and since they were out of stock of basic cases when I ordered, they upgraded me to a xblade case. (i'm really not hip enough for lit cases with fake chrome)

I don't know bout stores down south, but if you go looking for a system built by a small shop here, you can still get XP pro or home.

http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/directron_1939_32156133

[oddlycalm]

Asus for performance and Intel for stability. Gotta agree Mike. Had good luck with both, but I tend to stay back a step from the bleeding edge and have gone with Intel on the last two boards. All I care about is 100% up time for the 3yrs or so I have it here.

Just as big an issue for stability these days is the power supply. A lot of folks have been surprised and how much 12v they need for their PCI-E main board. The $50 generic PS is no longer an option. Now that vid cards have direct 12v connections and with the supplementary motherboard 12v connection they can overwhelm lesser power supplies.

Folks should be thinking 450w+ and dual 12v rails for a single processor w/ single vid card. Anyone going with dual high end vid cards better reach for the elephant gun or be prepared to suffer endless stability issues.

oc

[oddlycalm]

if you go looking for a system built by a small shop here, you can still get XP pro or home. Same thing here, any custom house will provide XP if you want it.

So DM, you have to wear sunglasses to run that thing....?:D

oc

[devilmaster]

Same thing here, any custom house will provide XP if you want it.

So DM, you have to wear sunglasses to run that thing....?:D

oc

Custom house - good way to describe it. I didn't buy this system from my regular supplier, but tried a new one. Apparently must do it more often - The case, power supply and chip were all upgrades from our agreed spec sheet. :D Fine by me, I paid the same price.

The cool lights are soooo wasted by me and my desk. The desk is a corner unit with hutch that has a built in computer case holder just off the floor. Can't even see it when i'm working away at the desk.

[racermike]

Gotta agree Mike. Had good luck with both, but I tend to stay back a step from the bleeding edge and have gone with Intel on the last two boards. All I care about is 100% up time for the 3yrs or so I have it here.

Just as big an issue for stability these days is the power supply. A lot of folks have been surprised and how much 12v they need for their PCI-E main board. The $50 generic PS is no longer an option. Now that vid cards have direct 12v connections and with the supplementary motherboard 12v connection they can overwhelm lesser power supplies.

Folks should be thinking 450w+ and dual 12v rails for a single processor w/ single vid card. Anyone going with dual high end vid cards better reach for the elephant gun or be prepared to suffer endless stability issues.

oc

When i built this system I am on, which is nearing 4 years old, I put in an Enermax 465w power supply, which kicks out the watts i need for the performance graphics card and audio card.

A new system, i wont get less than a 650w ps

I have always bought Enermax PS's. They have great support, good wiring, and good cooling systems for their PS's.

my current everyday pc runs nice, even with vista ultimate

intel d845 mobo
intel p4-2.0 northwood
1.5gb kingston sdram pc-150
enermax 465w ps
pny 256mb agp video (just upgraded)
sb audigy 2

also just bought new HP 19" widescreen lcd monitor ... this thing rocks! (1440x900)

widescreen is SO much better

[nrc]

also just bought new HP 19" widescreen lcd monitor ... this thing rocks! (1440x900)

widescreen is SO much better
When they started provisioning laptops to the tech geeks at work, some rocket surgeon came up with the idea of providing a docking station along with a USB video adapter, and two 19" 4:3 displays to provide dual displays.

I don't recall the maximum resolution of the USB video adapter, but it was like having one screen permanently piped through YouTube. I felt like I had a lazy eye on that side or something. Not to mention that the actual resolution of the 19" screens was no better than the 17" that I had before.

The next time they needed to provision a laptop I suggested to the desktop folks that if they'd get me a 20" widescreen 1660x1050 display I'd gladly give up my 19" litebrite displays and YouTubevision USB video adapter. Now I'm the envy of my blurry-eyed geek cohorts. :D

[Insomniac]

Dell sucks! Will never buy Dell again... EVEN if they do support open aource... :flame:

I mean for all the people who can't/won't build their own PC. They too can have a PC with no OS! ;)

[WickerBill]

Cam....

Do you like *anything*??

[chop456]

Cam likes NASCAR, My Little Pony collectibles, Michael Schumacher and that's about it.