View Full Version : "Losing Tires" At Las Vegas
Gee, banking up to 20 degrees, speeds up by 15 mph, 5 big crashes (including AJ) and some admitting to "losing tires." Go figure. The fans will LOVE that place.:shakehead
Accipiter
01-30-07, 11:27 AM
So they fixed the place then. Good to hear! :rolleyes:
SurfaceUnits
01-30-07, 11:44 AM
Gee, banking up to 20 degrees, speeds up by 15 mph, 5 big crashes (including AJ) and some admitting to "losing tires." Go figure. The fans will LOVE that place.:shakehead
Same thing happened @ Charlotte a year or two ago after they repaved the track. Tires were separating. go goodyear!!!
Not a total defense but teams let air out to a danger point to gain traction and speed and Goodyear does NOT support that. Every other thing is so dang regulated maybe there should be a mandated tire pressure!
Guess AJ lasted almost 10 mins. today. Looped it in 2 and smacked the wall. Didn't sound like it was tires.
SurfaceUnits
01-31-07, 04:15 AM
Jeff Burton was far from satisfied after his day of testing. While he applauded track builders for canvassing the garage, Burton wonders how the suggestions are lost in translation.
"They screwed up Charlotte and didn't do this place any favors," Burton said. "What we do is inherently dangerous, and the racing doesn't have to be this fast. It's hard to get a feel for it. I don't see how too fast racing makes for good racing.
"The tires have to be as hard as bricks or they will explode. How many tires have we seen blow out today, three, four? We can expect tire problems when we build this type of a racetrack."
Guess AJ lasted almost 10 mins. today. Looped it in 2 and smacked the wall. Didn't sound like it was tires.
Probably wasn't fast enough to lose a tire. What was he, 66th "best" time in testing and about 10 mph slower than the front of the field?
Accipiter
01-31-07, 12:30 PM
Not a total defense but teams let air out to a danger point to gain traction and speed and Goodyear does NOT support that. Every other thing is so dang regulated maybe there should be a mandated tire pressure!
Maybe someday Goodyear will think about how the teams use their tires when they build them. If Michelin at the '05 USGP is the argument against tire competition, Goodyear in NASCAR is the argument against a single supplier.
Goodyear built tires for Bill Elliott and the boys when they were doing 210mph over TWENTY years ago...on flat banks and long tracks. They were safe. The gradual and higher banking and tighter tracks (to increase speed and excitement for the fans and to improve "racing":shakehead ) combined with downforce and side loads unheard of 20 yrs. ago are at the root of the problem along with ultra competitive engineers who send drivers out to run in an unsafe condition. There are plenty of places to put blame in addition to Goodyear. Run at the recommended pressures Goodyear feels confident the tires are safe. "Hard as bricks" is not a technical term, and if they were ALL rock hard and safe wouldn't the racing be better? I thought that was NASCAB's goal. Maybe it's just that "fan excitement" part?.
And PS-if AJ had the 66th fastest time what do you think was the first thing that might have been done to quickly and cheaply get him some speed that may also have resulted in that first blown right front?
extramundane
01-31-07, 02:42 PM
Goodyear built tires for Bill Elliott and the boys when they were doing 210mph over TWENTY years ago...on flat banks and long tracks. They were safe. [...]There are plenty of places to put blame in addition to Goodyear.
Perhaps, but the tire world has changed a lot in twenty years. Goodyear used to be the tire in American professional motorsport. These days, NASCAR and NHRA are about the only series where they can be found; if the competitors had other brands to choose from, I suspect you'd see Goodyear pushed out there as well. They couldn't keep up in CART or F1, now they're also gone from ALMS and apparently weren't terribly attractive to Grand Am.
That suggests to me that Goodyear has more than just a passing role in these failures.
devilmaster
01-31-07, 02:46 PM
If goodyear makes a crappy tyre, then its a crappy tyre regardless of how teams run them.
I have been of the belief that they have made terrible tyres since they were in CART. When they were being beaten repeatedly by 'stone, they turned tail and ran.
The Hoosier challenge wasn't as tough cause, iirc, Hoosier was either forced or chose to run a smaller diameter.
I would love to see 'stone in NASCAR, cause they would be who I put my money on.
pfc_m_drake
01-31-07, 03:45 PM
In additon to what NismoZ has posted regarding tire pressure, recall that the chief complaint about Goodyear tires following the 2003 season was that they were too consistent, to the point where teams weren't taking tires during pit-stops (particularly at the end of races), and races were being decided by fuel strategy. This was percieved as 'boring', and to counter that NASCAR asked Goodyear to make tires which were softer and would wear faster.
Competition. Many drivers, especially veterans, have two major complaints about NASCAR's brand of racing. First, the cars are so dependent on aerodynamics that they don't handle properly when they get in the air turbulence created behind another car, making passing more difficult. Second, the tires, they say, essentially are too good; they last longer than they did three years ago, so a car with fresh tires isn't much faster than a car with old tires. Tires don't figure prominently into pit strategy anymore, leaving several races to be decided by fuel economy.
In response, NASCAR officials are likely to reduce the height of each car's rear spoiler wing in 2004, making the car less aerodynamic, and then ask Goodyear to produce a "softer" tire that wears out more quickly.
Link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2003-08-28-changes_x.htm)
Probably if Goodyear was smart they would have tried to tell NASCAR 'no' after they requested the softer tires, but the reality is that NASCAR simply would have found another tire supplier that would have complied with their wishes.
To be honest (and you'd probably never get the NASCAR brass to admit this), I suspect that NASCAR is perfectly happy with the current state of affairs with regard to tire failures. Those teams who play with fire and run tire pressures which are below the recommended level will sometimes get burned...which adds the 'excitement' of 'uncertainty' into the racing equation.
But like I said, no one would ever own up to that.
on flat banks.
:saywhat:
That is like calling Danica busty.
Why dont they put their cars on diets?
Oh, they will when toyota tells them to do so :rofl:
oh and mapguy, I caught the flat bank part as well :rofl:
NASCAR's are sleds. What's the weight, 3200K? They better make darn sure nobody is wearing the Hutchins device or they could wind up like Saddams brother :rolleyes: It's not gonna be long before Ole' Basil shows up again.
Madatory tire pressures are right around the corner, and Chad Konnect can "invent" bleeders cause dem boyz is sooo dang smarts it aint even funnies
Why dont they put their cars on diets?
NASCAR's are sleds. What's the weight, 3200K? They better make darn sure nobody is wearing the Hutchins device or they could wind up like Saddams brother :rolleyes: It's not gonna be long before Ole' Basil shows up again.
3400 lbs. 3200 lbs. is either Busch or ARCA, I forget which and don't care enough to look it up right now.
:D Dammit you guys, what should I have said, parabolic? You know, curvy? Gradually increasing? Flat from bottom to top. I didn't say level!:saywhat: pfc says exactly what I was thinking. NASCRAP probably doesn't really care if the tires blow. They figure the low pressure gamblers probably deserve it and It's fun to watch!:shakehead
Oh, and I guess AJ blew another right front and merely "brushed" the wall this time. 3 for 3. Helluva test for AJ!
pfc_m_drake
02-04-07, 09:31 PM
As NismoZ and I alluded to, NASCAR is apparently plenty happy with the tire situation:
Goodyear Tire & Rubber Co. has reached a five-year contraction extension with NASCAR to remain its exclusive tire provider through 2012. The extension was announced Saturday night at Goodyear's annual dealer conference.
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/news/story?seriesId=2&id=2753420)
I wonder how much the contract calls for Goodyear to pay NASCRAP to run those Eagles?
coolhand
02-05-07, 12:41 AM
Flat ovals are the best NASCAR races IMO.
Accipiter
02-05-07, 01:44 PM
In additon to what NismoZ has posted regarding tire pressure, recall that the chief complaint about Goodyear tires following the 2003 season was that they were too consistent, to the point where teams weren't taking tires during pit-stops (particularly at the end of races), and races were being decided by fuel strategy. This was percieved as 'boring', and to counter that NASCAR asked Goodyear to make tires which were softer and would wear faster.
Link (http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/nascar/2003-08-28-changes_x.htm)
Even when Goodyear was supplying hockey pucks, there were races marred by tire failures and "competition yellows" to check tire wear.
And they were letting air out of the hockey pucks back then too, only at 210 mph it wasn't the smart ones who were doing it. Competition yellows and tire checks on lap 20 or whatever were happening because the only way to catch a guy with more horsepower was to soften up your hockey pucks and try to stay with 'im in the turns. How 'bout NASCAB "pit windows"? Maybe a "red tire" rule? If Goodyear figures out a way to make the tires last 50 laps safely then some brilliant engineer will find a driver who loves to go fast for 30 then pray...or pay. There's way more science put into manufacturing those tires than into ruining them!
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