Honda futility version 2007

[oddlycalm]

Honda plan major car revamp (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57041)
Nakamoto said he was pessimistic about Honda's chances of a strong showing in the season-opening Australian Grand Prix - where he doubted they would be able to qualify inside the top 10.

Back to the drawing boards. Add to that a few engine grenades at inconvenient intervals and it's $400 million well spent....:gomer:

[emjaya]

With our team over the last seven or eight years it has been an evolutionary process and we evolved our way up to fourth place in the championship last year," he said

So if it has taken eight years to get forth place.......


Honda plan major car revamp (http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/5704)


Btw, your link took me to an Eddie Irvine story from 1999.:saywhat:

[DagoFast]

^^^^That's every bit as timely as honduh sucking in F1!

[MAXAR RE]

Watching Honda and Toyota trow money at F1 each year just reinforces the point that you cannot always buy a good team, or wins or a championship. I mean, it's been done before in other series (didn't the Marlins win the World Series their first or second year, then the owners prompty sell off the players at a profit?) but its tough to win against Ferarri at any cost.

That said, this should be a really interesting year. The landscape has really changed, what with Honda & Red Bull having 2 teams running near-identical cars and all the driver movements in the off season. I am really looking forward to it!

[oddlycalm]

Btw, your link took me to an Eddie Irvine story from 1999.:saywhat: How 'bout that Eddie, eh? :gomer: Sorry, I clipped off a digit when cutting and pasting. :o

According to rough calculations Honda has now spent well over $3 billion to achieve mid-pack status and their shiny new car needs a major re-design before the season even gets underway. Bit more costly than my cut and paste error....:p

oc

[Wheel-Nut]

11) Davidson, Super Aguri-Honda (B), 1:28.727 + 1.374, 28
12) Trulli, Toyota (B), 1:28.921 + 1.568, 33
13) Sato, Super Aguri-Honda (B), 1:29.009 + 1.656, 23
14) Button, Honda (B), 1:29.066 + 1.713, 30
15) Barrichello, Honda (B), 1:29.542 + 2.189, 12


Factory Honda behind customer Honda!! :eek:

[pchall]

How's the Yamura team doing this weekend? Those guys are proven winners.

[eiregosod]

How 'bout that Eddie, eh? :gomer: Sorry, I clipped off a digit when cutting and pasting. :o

According to rough calculations Honda has now spent well over $3 billion to achieve mid-pack status and their shiny new car needs a major re-design before the season even gets underway. Bit more costly than my cut and paste error....:p

oc


add in the $2bn that Yoda spent from 2002 until 2006 that's $5bn that the Japanese have spent on their F1 investment in the past 10 years. They could have launched 12-15 new road cars for that money. Gotta wonder when head office will re-locate the teams to Japan. if f1 is going to race in Asia, then it'll make better sense to run those opeations closer to home.

Compare with BMW, they havn't won a race since they were with WIlliams, but they've climbed up the grid to become the 3rd best constructor.

[ferrarigod]

Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of goobers.


Super Best Friends is now the A-team. B.A. told me :D

[oddlycalm]

Honda is out to give Foyt a run for the futility title it seems. Seriously, Honda's qualifying effort at Sepang looked like a vintage Foyt close order group fornication. :gomer: This is a team with a $400+ million budget and they look like a backmarker team from the EARL with the technical director running around waiving his arms at people and when Barrichello finally gets into the backup car his barely has time for one lap. :shakehead At that point why not just start from the pit lane and same the humiliation as well as the risk from the race start ?
Grid positions
15th Button
19th Barrichello

[Jag_Warrior]

How's the Yamura team doing this weekend? Those guys are proven winners.

If Pete can keep his mind off that saucy brunette, I think they stand a good chance.

O/T, but doesn't Fernando kind of resemble Nino Barlini (Antonio Sabato)?

[eiregosod]

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Ted_Kravitz&PO_ID=38932

"Honda

Jenson’s knob fell off during the race.

It was the knob on the steering wheel that controls the fuel mixture to the engine.

I don’t know how hard he pulled it before it came off but luckily it was set to the regular race setting. If it had been in the full rich position he might have needed an extra pit stop for fuel while a lean mix would’ve slowed him down even more than the car itself did.

Honda’s inability to deal with their cars’ dynamic performance must be linked to their getting rid of Geoff Willis.

What Geoff had was experience in bridging the gap between the track engineers and the designers stuck in the wind tunnel back at the factory.

His replacement Shuhei Nakamoto hasn’t been able to do this effectively, and the fact Nakamoto is essentially an engine man means he can’t tour round the aero office suggesting things, looking over shoulders, coming up with new ideas himself and keeping designers on the straight and narrow.

When we asked Nick Fry about this, he admitted “no one’s perfect”. :rofl:

We should remember it was Japan’s decision to move Willis aside. But where will this tension between Honda’s Japanese owners and the UK factory team surface next?" :\ :tony:

[chop456]

Jenson’s knob fell off during the race.

I can think of worse times for it to happen.

[STD]

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Ted_Kravitz&PO_ID=38932

"Honda

Jenson’s knob fell off during the race.

It was the knob on the steering wheel that controls the fuel mixture to the engine.

I don’t know how hard he pulled it before it came off but luckily it was set to the regular race setting. If it had been in the full rich position he might have needed an extra pit stop for fuel while a lean mix would’ve slowed him down even more than the car itself did.

Honda’s inability to deal with their cars’ dynamic performance must be linked to their getting rid of Geoff Willis.

What Geoff had was experience in bridging the gap between the track engineers and the designers stuck in the wind tunnel back at the factory.

His replacement Shuhei Nakamoto hasn’t been able to do this effectively, and the fact Nakamoto is essentially an engine man means he can’t tour round the aero office suggesting things, looking over shoulders, coming up with new ideas himself and keeping designers on the straight and narrow.

When we asked Nick Fry about this, he admitted “no one’s perfect”.

We should remember it was Japan’s decision to move Willis aside. But where will this tension between Honda’s Japanese owners and the UK factory team surface next?"

Button's knob.
Honda's inability since they showed Willis the door... without ITV remembering Willis' inabilities with last years mess that led to Willis being shown the door.
Nor remembering that the team showed improvement after the move.
Fryed caps it off with "no one's prefect."

Thanks, I haven't laughed so hard since the last episode of myearthdream churns BARF/Honda.
:eek: :rofl: :rofl:

[oddlycalm]

When we asked Nick Fry about this, he admitted “no one’s perfect”. :rofl: Now that's a true classic. :D Honda does seem to have the Foyt gene. Maybe Gil brought it over from the EARL...?

This is almost painful to watch, but that's what makes it F1. Even veteran outfit McLaren has been wandering in the wilderness on and off for the last few seasons.

oc

[dando]

Ross Brawn to the rescue?

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36552/

Can The Chin be far behind? ;) :gomer:

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Ross Brawn to the rescue?

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/formulaone/36552/

Can The Chin be far behind? ;) :gomer:

-Kevin

If this is being leaked out now it must be true. Must be nice to essentially be dead man walking two races into the season. Not.

Brawn is nuts to take the job unless he has as much or more control than he had at Ferrari. This is a huge institutional and leadership problem. But if he is rested enough to take on a real challenge perhaps he should take on toyota.

And the Chin won't help them. Their problems are off the track.

(Foyt DNA TFF :rofl: )

[eiregosod]

Now that's a true classic. :D Honda does seem to have the Foyt gene. Maybe Gil brought it over from the EARL...?

This is almost painful to watch, but that's what makes it F1. Even veteran outfit McLaren has been wandering in the wilderness on and off for the last few seasons.

oc


Gil's role is sporting director. Usually that means that he has to scout all the young drivers to find the best ones. Can't wait for gil to reveal that Marco is the best young driver he can find.

Gotta wonder if Honda will move their f1 operations to Japan if Berntard does add more races in Asia. Fry is irrelevant, the biggest decisions that Fry came up with were "myearthdream", Honda doesn't want Fry to get all the accolades if they win.

[RichK]

Fry looked awful during qualifying when they showed the Honda garage. Actually, he looked like this:

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000DG5UE.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[emjaya]

Now that's a true classic. :D Honda does seem to have the Foyt gene. Maybe Gil brought it over from the EARL...?

This is almost painful to watch, but that's what makes it F1. Even veteran outfit McLaren has been wandering in the wilderness on and off for the last few seasons.

oc

McLaren and Williams too.

Honda should just supply engines.Toyota should just give up and go cabbing.

[Cam]

oyota should just give up and go cabbing.

They are a pathetic waste of space at that too right now!

[oddlycalm]

Brawn is nuts to take the job unless he has as much or more control than he had at Ferrari. This is a huge institutional and leadership problem. Right, unless he is given blanket authority over the entire operation in both Japan and the UK there's no chance of a different result.

In the end the specific flavor of arrogant ignorance isn't really important, but it should be noted that Foyt manages to accomplish the same end result for a small fraction of the cost...:rofl:

oc

[TorontoWorker]

I won't rest until someone throws a laptop. Waiting...:rofl:

[eiregosod]

I won't rest until someone throws a laptop. Waiting...:rofl:

make that a Cray's flying across the room.

[eiregosod]

The Sheik Massmoud edition of the Honda Foytility.

Jenny is the slowest driver after 2nd practice. barichello posts a deent lap time. Super agooey say that they'll win a race in 2008, not with the 2007 Honda car you won't.

[EDwardo]

Honda suffers Button engine blow
April 13

Jenson experienced further frustration midway through the second session when he suffered an engine failure which caused him to stop out on the circuit....

http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/news/2007/04/13/honda_suffers_button_engine_blow/

Honda blows.......
:rofl:

[oddlycalm]

Honda blows.......:rofl: Seriously. Very impressive amount of parts being launched into a low earth orbit. Oh well, no foul on changing a Friday engine so he gets to keep his P16 on the grid. Ouch.

oc

[Spicoli]

Davidson out quallied everyone in homoco sleds + Ralf. :laugh:

[Spicoli]

wow.

tough day .


davidson = ******** move.:shakehead

[devilmaster]

davidson = ******** move.:shakehead

definitely. you wanna limp around? Fine - its a wide track with lots of runoff places. But get off the racing line.

And Christian Horner - thanks for coming out. :laugh:

[oddlycalm]

Christian Horner - thanks for coming out. :laugh: I guess Honda needed company in the misery tent.

Barrichello a lap down in 13th is the bright spot for Honda this weekend and we seem to be revisiting the grenading engine era. On to Spain.

oc

[eiregosod]

axe starts to chop em down at Yoda.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39080

"standard policy of job rotation" :laugh: :shakehead

[dando]

axe starts to chop em down at Yoda.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39080

"standard policy of job rotation" :laugh: :shakehead

Related?

http://offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12782

-Kevin

[Don Quixote]

"standard policy of job rotation" :laugh: :shakehead

He and his family will be held under a cloud of darkest shame for 4 generations.

[oddlycalm]

axe starts to chop em down at Yoda.

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=39080

"standard policy of job rotation" :laugh: :shakehead You're right to be right to be skeptical, but this really is the standard model for Japanese companies. Honda and Toyoda place themselves at a distinct disadvantage to their competitors by following this model.

The most important thing to remember is that it's not only the top guy that gets rotated, it's all the engineers and Japanese support staff. While the other teams have normal turnover the Japanese teams have that with their non-Japanese employees but also this mandated turnover of the Japanese staff to deal with.

As far as industrial espionage is concerned it would be viewed by management as a clever victory rather than a loss of face. The exception to that would be if there was legal exposure on the part of the Japanese manager which would be viewed as embarrassment to the company.

oc

[Cam]

Barcelona Monday testing times... Go Taku! :eek:

Unofficial times*:

Pos Driver Constructor Time Laps
1 Kimi Raikkonen Ferrari 1m21.195 98
2 Takuma Sato Super Aguri 1m21.858 99
3 Pedro de la Rosa Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 1m21.906 101
.
.
6 Rubens Barrichello Honda Racing 1m22.655 132

[STD]

"standard policy of job rotation" :laugh: :shakehead

I agree, another F1 Toyota press release styled for the saving of face from the lack of results.
Far too many yen have suffered. :rofl:

Next, when do they hire a qualified person to run any part of that team?




Wonder how they will do this with their Cab project and Mikey W.
However it's done it should be a laugh riot.

[eiregosod]

You're right to be right to be skeptical, but this really is the standard model for Japanese companies. Honda and Toyoda place themselves at a distinct disadvantage to their competitors by following this model.

The most important thing to remember is that it's not only the top guy that gets rotated, it's all the engineers and Japanese support staff. While the other teams have normal turnover the Japanese teams have that with their non-Japanese employees but also this mandated turnover of the Japanese staff to deal with.

As far as industrial espionage is concerned it would be viewed by management as a clever victory rather than a loss of face. The exception to that would be if there was legal exposure on the part of the Japanese manager which would be viewed as embarrassment to the company.

oc

There's some practicies that serve the Japanese industries well. getting all the departments to communicate with each other is a good practice. rotating the staff around might be ok for mass production , however for the arena of ultra-competetive motorsports the rotations don't allow any group to develop the necessary expertise in order to compete against Ferrari/McLaren etc...

for the money that Yoda is putting behind their F1 operations from 2002 - 2006 would have paid for the launch of 4 new models.


I agree, another F1 Toyota press release styled for the saving of face from the lack of results.
Far too many yen have suffered. :rofl:

Next, when do they hire a qualified person to run any part of that team?




Wonder how they will do this with their Cab project and Mikey W.
However it's done it should be a laugh riot.

Mikey is still on -27 points.

Someone pointed out that Yoda will dump their existing Cup teams and cosy up to sucksessful CUp teams. Penske, Haas, Ganassi, eavernham etc...

[Winston Wolfe]

Mikey is still on -27 points.

Someone pointed out that Yoda will dump their existing Cup teams and cosy up to sucksessful CUp teams. Penske, Haas, Ganassi, eavernham etc...

True dat!
See CART circa 1999-200 - Yoda yen buy Ganassi team, who were prior year Champs with Honda power, yet advertise as "Championship winning CGR, powered by Toyota" - or something to that effect.... They also pay N\H the big bux too, and win the last CART Championship with Shorty driving Mikey's old car as he headed to the yen-whore status which he now shines as their poster child.
See Toyota \ IRL \ Pimpski - yen whore extrordinaire circa 2003, etc...
Its not really IF they are going to throw wads of cash at an established team in order to gain acceptance, but WHEN they will and HOW MUCH they are going to burn through...
At the rate they'll spend for recognition, they'll make ol' Chris Pook look like he was in charge of the FedReserve. :rofl:

[eiregosod]

True dat!
See CART circa 1999-200 - Yoda yen buy Ganassi team, who were prior year Champs with Honda power, yet advertise as "Championship winning CGR, powered by Toyota" - or something to that effect.... They also pay N\H the big bux too, and win the last CART Championship with Shorty driving Mikey's old car as he headed to the yen-whore status which he now shines as their poster child.
See Toyota \ IRL \ Pimpski - yen whore extrordinaire circa 2003, etc...
Its not really IF they are going to throw wads of cash at an established team in order to gain acceptance, but WHEN they will and HOW MUCH they are going to burn through...
At the rate they'll spend for recognition, they'll make ol' Chris Pook look like he was in charge of the FedReserve. :rofl:

DEI is mulling a switch to ford or Yoda.

[oddlycalm]

rotating the staff around might be ok for mass production , however for the arena of ultra-competetive motorsports the rotations don't allow any group to develop the necessary expertise in order to compete against Ferrari/McLaren etc... Totally agree, that's my conclusion and the reason for the thread. Honda and Toyoda are trying to apply their normal business formula to their F1 efforts and they are failing miserably. It works semi-ok for plodding along with normal production operations but it's patent nonsense for running something as competitive as an F1 team.

Remember, for every European hired they have a Japanese employee as his shadow. We call them ghosts. That double staffing is a big part of why their cost structure in F1 is out of whack. Also, the ghost may not even attend meetings where critical issues are discussed yet it is he who will make the ultimate decision. :gomer:

oc

[eiregosod]

Nick gets fryed.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=31300

ouch :tony:

[emjaya]

Nick gets fryed.

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_feature_item.php?fes_art_id=31300

ouch :tony:

:D

[eiregosod]

dunno if this is real or not :rofl:
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/73173.jpg



about Fry, he is employed because he wont hog the limelight or that everyone will think that he owns the team.

[Spicoli]

^^^^^^

:rofl: x 10000000000000000000000000

[Turn7]

Dang I'm getting old. I didn't realize the pokemon crowd had gotten old enough to be aeroguru's.

http://www.suta-raito.com/images/pokemon.gif

[STD]

dunno if this is real or not :rofl:
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/73173.jpg



Deviated septum?
Flippers? :rofl:

[eiregosod]

Ouch!

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31495

(sounds as if it was written by a HondaF1 employee)

[oddlycalm]

Ouch!

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=31495

(sounds as if it was written by a HondaF1 employee) Ouch indeed. This is what weak management looks like in action. In this case it's more like management by ghosts which is what we call them. The ghosts are the Japanese guys that nobody ever sees but who are making all the decisions. This kind of ghost management theatrics may work against the likes of GM or Ford in the auto business but against Ferrari and McLaren, and perhaps even Super Aguri, it's never going to cut it.

oc

[eiregosod]

Ouch indeed. This is what weak management looks like in action. In this case it's more like management by ghosts which is what we call them. The ghosts are the Japanese guys that nobody ever sees but who are making all the decisions. This kind of ghost management theatrics may work against the likes of GM or Ford in the auto business but against Ferrari and McLaren, and perhaps even Super Aguri, it's never going to cut it.

oc

I never got the impression that Nick Fry is totally in charge. The only decisions he has to make are deciding the cars' liveries. In that article Nick reckons that he might be on the Queee's honours list for his services to the enviornment! That's Sir Nick Fry to you! :rofl: .

[STD]

That's Sir Nick Fry to you.

:laugh:

[eiregosod]

:rofl: :laugh: :rofl:

http://www.f1i.com/content/view/7192/1/

The names that appear, Simon Fuller, The Spice Girls (they didn't shift as manny units when they sacked him as manager) , and Pop Idol

Maybe, Honda should hold a reealitee TV sow to determine who becomes Sir Nick fry's successor.

Simon Fuller, Nick Fry, Gene Simmons, Tony Blair, ya get what ya pay for :tony:

[STD]

I suggest adding Jenson to the list.
He will need to find a different line of work soon. He knows he is more than qualified for team management with all that contract stuff he has been dealing with over the years.
Plus, he does not leave his Telly on stand by anymore. :p

[oddlycalm]

North American update. Honda continues it's humiliation by getting beaten by Super Aguri at both the Canadian GP and US GP. Honda keeps Spyker company by being the only other team to fail to score points after 7 races.

oc

[Andrew Longman]

OT but lest we forget that Williams-Toyota is outdoing the factory team or that Trulli is 10th in points while the lesser chin hasn't even outqualified his teammate or scored a point.

Back to the topic, why does Honda F1 suck so bad? They seem to be running out of excuses.

[Insomniac]

Back to the topic, why does Honda F1 suck so bad? They seem to be running out of excuses.

Because all they can do is build better racing engines than the competition?

[Andrew Longman]

Because all they can do is build better racing engines than the competition?

Well, for a while their engines blew up all to often. Then they had too much silliness going on within the team. Then they had a disinterested driver. Then they realized that making a competitive chassis was harder than they thought.

Supposedly all these things have been fixed. But Super Aguri now beats them.:shakehead

[eiregosod]

Gil leaves Honda racing.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60865

[Accipiter]

My god. Where else will they be able to find a guy to talk to TV reporters!

[oddlycalm]

Gil leaves Honda racing.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/60865 Not surprising. There are a lot people wasting their time with Honda. Bad management is capable of overcoming any obstacle and any number of quality personnel in it's quest to fail.


I came to this team to fulfil a particular role and it has not materialised as I had hoped.

oc

[eiregosod]

in other news Mike Coughlan says that the Fiararri photocopies were intended for use at another team . I wonder if Nick Fry is deleting all traces of phone calls he made.

[Elmo T]

Bad management is capable of overcoming any obstacle and any number of quality personnel in it's quest to fail.


There is a quote for the next motivational poster. :thumbup:

I know Honda has dumped tons of money into the program, but it just seems like they are not passionate about winning. No drive. Take some of the Honda money and pass it along to the middle of the pack teams and you'd have some title contenders.

[Spicoli]

There is a quote for the next motivational poster. :thumbup:

I know Honda has dumped tons of money into the program, but it just seems like they are not passionate about winning. No drive. Take some of the Honda money and pass it along to the middle of the pack teams and you'd have some title contenders.


Well, they are winning in the IRL!:thumbup:

[eiregosod]

There is a quote for the next motivational poster. :thumbup:

I know Honda has dumped tons of money into the program, but it just seems like they are not passionate about winning. No drive. Take some of the Honda money and pass it along to the middle of the pack teams and you'd have some title contenders.


the whole operation of BAR/Honda from Pollock to Richards to Fry, has been an amalgam of various companies like Reynard/Honda and every one else who was part of the original BAR project. Add in the "blame-game" culture that was nurtured from pollock onwards and its little wonder that the team is going nowhere. Helios' articles at Pitpass lay out the whole gulf between senior management & theworker bees.

if Honda is serious about winning, they're going to need to take a chance and give their most trusted managers the authority & budget to move the team into race winners. It might take a ross brawn to remould the whole Honda organisation and turn the team into race winners.

[Spicoli]

:laugh:

button.

[EDwardo]

Well, they are winning in the IRL!:thumbup:

To suck at the pinnacle of racing while excelling at the suckage of racing is our mission.
Honda. The racing legend unfolds.

[Spicoli]

"I can't pass the Spyker" :rofl:

[eiregosod]

"I can't pass the Spyker" :rofl:

hold on now, the spykers did lead a race this year.

[oddlycalm]

"I can't pass the Spyker" :rofl: Yep, that's futility alright. Good move by Rubens to pass on Ferrari to move to Honda BTW. :gomer:

You gotta know that it's fall on sword time for some people at Honda. Losing face in such a public way isn't going to go down well with the big boss.

oc

[eiregosod]

more Frysteppin'

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=32435

[cameraman]

"no improvement for several months"

Several months? Look at a calendar, that would be next season.
Looks like Reubens & Jenson will be chasing Spykers for the rest of 2007:shakehead.

Couldn't happen to a nicer corporation.

[oddlycalm]

more Frysteppin'

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_news_item.php?fes_art_id=32435 The bit about the "miscalibration" of the wind tunnel is a hoot. Maybe the contractor that did Honda's wind tunnel has some of old Hubble telescope gang that got tossed from what used to be Perkins-Elmer....:gomer:

oc

[emjaya]

Poor Rubens. I will miss him when he leaves F1 in 2009. :gomer:

[STD]

LOL so much for the environmental friendly team's windtunnel.
It just wouldn't run right on Jenson's and Fry's hot air intake.
False readings indeed. :rofl:

[EDwardo]

Another stellar qualifying effort in Turkey.
RB 14th and Button 15th. But Buttons engine failed coming into the pits. Bad news, he gets a 10 position penalty. Good news, its only 8 positions back to last place.

ps

Ralf continues to earn his big salary with a 17th place start in his Toyota.

[Methanolandbrats]

LOL so much for the environmental friendly team's windtunnel.
It just wouldn't run right on Jenson's and Fry's hot air intake.
False readings indeed. :rofl:
Running a windtunnel 24/7 is the essence of environmentalism :D And when you consider that said windtunnel is using all that energy to yield useless results, it's all the better :rofl: Honduh = buncha dicks.

[Spicoli]

Huck Fonda. again. what a trainwreck. :shakehead

[oddlycalm]

A semi-dalyed observation. Button scores Honda's 2nd point of the season at Monza, a track where the aero devices are all but dialed to neutral.

oc