View Full Version : RM Again
"We came, we saw, we shook our heads.":shakehead ( SpeedTV's visit to CC at Laguna)
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 11:32 AM
Big f surprise. Writing negative obout Champcar is his only $ from nascar channel. I know we all like to see big money and big sponsors etc. but it takes time to build a business specially in racing that is going to be oround in a long run. This group did not get rich having RM likes in the board rooms therefore I trust this guys and I know that things of the past are gone and racing in Champcar will be great. I wiil show up at the races because there is no better racing for me to enjoy. Oh yeah, new car is FAAAAAST! [He did not see it?]
Sean Malone
03-10-07, 11:39 AM
Big f surprise. Writing negative obout Champcar is his only $ from nascar channel. I know we all like to see big money and big sponsors etc. but it takes time to build a business specially in racing that is going to be oround in a long run. This group did not get rich having RM likes in the board rooms therefore I trust this guys and I know that things of the past are gone and racing in Champcar will be great. I wiil show up at the races because there is no better racing for me to enjoy.
What positives were there to write about? Oh that's right, Saturday isn't over yet.
Oh, and just playing devils advocate here but we don't know what the racing is like with the new DP01 until Vegas. For me the best racing was F1 '85 through '93 and Champ Car '91 through '99. The spec Lola years have been weak in comparison.
"We came, we saw, we shook our heads.":shakehead ( SpeedTV's visit to CC at Laguna)
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12500&page=6#143
jonovision_man
03-10-07, 11:54 AM
For me the best racing was F1 '85 through '93 and Champ Car '91 through '99. The spec Lola years have been weak in comparison.
I agree to a point... but I'm going to look back very fondly on the Bourdais vs PT years, it's been one of the most heated rivalries in racing.
But I did enjoy the 90's more, the grids then were so much more compelling than the post-split watered down stuff we have now. ChampCar jumped the shark when it went bankrupt, having the best teams (and drivers) split between the two series stinks. Still worth watching, but not as much.
jono
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 12:31 PM
What positives were there to write about? Oh that's right, Saturday isn't over yet.
Oh, and just playing devils advocate here but we don't know what the racing is like with the new DP01 until Vegas. For me the best racing was F1 '85 through '93 and Champ Car '91 through '99. The spec Lola years have been weak in comparison.
Why are you so angry? Positives? Champcar is testing new fast car.Best racing? Every year has their heros for that time. Comparison from past years with years of bk is useless as there was a Roman empire. As I can see at present you have a choice. Support rich guys and Champcar or nascar channel paid moron. I'm a CHAMPCAR fan and trust guys who spend their money to build it back and better then before and I know how hard is to build a busness from scratch.Takes time but as I can see it every year is better.There is people here who allways post negative for every single thing they do but don't have a clue obout it. Constractive criticism is good. Debate is good. New ideas are good, but attacking positive posts and posters does not serve any good to a Champcar fan.
As I can see at present you have a choice. Support rich guys and Champcar or nascar channel paid moron. I'm a CHAMPCAR fan and trust guys who spend their money to build it back and better then before and I know how hard is to build a busness from scratch.I don't trust anyone and neither does RM, which is why he is the best at what he does. People made the mistake of trusting Roger Penske, Chip Ganassi, and Bobby Rahal to run the series in the late 90s and look where that got us. I don't think any of us were looking for Champ Car to compete with NASCAR for ratings this year. What we were looking for were steps forward. And so far all we have seen are steps backwards. The people you trust created huge expectations towards the end of last season then failed to deliver.
And I still don't get how people can put faith in a man who takes two months off of his job to hang out with penguins while his company is in the midst of a major transition. It smacks of a lack of commitment to me.
Ruben Barrios
03-10-07, 12:49 PM
Champcar is a shadow of what it once was... The product has changed, It has been downgraded from a series to a second rate circus...
Remember?
3 engine Mfgt.
2+ Chasis
2 Tire Mfgt.
Sponsors
24+ Deep Field
More than 14 teams
Ovals, Closed Circuits and Street Circuits
Houshold names
Diverse Pace cars
Series Official Sponsor
What is left?
Spec cars
less than 12 teams
Bridgstones
Panoz
Cossworth
Mazda pace car team
8 rookies no one have heard of...
The people who had started to make a name, gone
This is not the same series... it is a new series and it is not good...
We have been hanging around year after year, patiently waiting for next year when things will get better... This is the worst year so far... yet the same BS is being fed...
Time to wake up and smell the coffee...
The Champcar we all grew to love is gone and dead...
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 01:00 PM
.
And I still don't get how people can put faith in a man who takes two months off of his job to hang out with penguins while his company is in the midst of a major transition. It smacks of a lack of commitment to me.[/QUOTE]
What is his job description? Billionaire on vacation or tire changer. I don't think that he made his money by lack of commitment and that he feels confident to invest his money why should you be worried, after all when is all over you will be in good place.
Ruben Barrios
03-10-07, 01:12 PM
GoFast!
Do you know why Fortune 500 companies invest in NASCAR??
Not because they like it... There's no other option...
You may argue what ever you want, but the reallity is that outside of the die hard fans nobody cares.. The dismal rating, the lack of interest is sending a very clear message, but you choose to ignore it...
Do you think you are so very intelligent that you are the only one right and everyone else is wrong?
People are not buying the product!!! The product is bad!
Time to either kill the band are change the tunes...
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 01:16 PM
GoFast!
People are not buying the product!!! The product is bad!
Time to either kill the band are change the tunes...
I'm die hard fan and I don't know better. Ideas?
Insomniac
03-10-07, 01:20 PM
Do you know why Fortune 500 companies invest in NASCAR??
Not because they like it... There's no other option...
Just have to disagree here, but it's not because there's no other option, it's because it's a good option. May not reach you and me, but they didn't decide we should invest marketing money in auto racing, which series is best for that?
Ideas?kk should invest in larger (much larger) purses, which will attract teams that want to win. these teams will hire paid drivers. those paid drivers will likely be skilled. the racing will be better. the show will improve. the product might be sellable to sponsors. the series might grow.
there's one.
Ruben Barrios
03-10-07, 01:26 PM
Plenty of ideas...
Go back to the roots of the sport, what does Sonic's BBQ have to do with car racing?
For the most part racing fans are car enthusiasts, bring cars to the races... what a novell concept...
Invest money (yeah invest KK, did you think you put in a couple of million and milk the cow?) in real advertising. Weather you like it or not the whole concept in Champcar is now racing festivals (local carnival)
Get BMW, Audi, Porsche, Jaguar, Aston Martin, Masseratti to build engines...
Open the rulebook to include multiple chasis, tires...
Promote locally before any race weekend...
Diversify!!!
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 01:26 PM
[QUOTE=Ruben Barrios;188625]Champcar is a shadow of what it once was...
Agree. 3 yeras and look what we have.
The product has changed, It has been downgraded from a series to a second rate circus...
Downgraded by? RM? O, please.
Ruben Barrios
03-10-07, 01:29 PM
Downgraded by management!! not RM, I agree with RM...
Insomniac
03-10-07, 01:32 PM
I'm die hard fan and I don't know better. Ideas?
Get more money and exposure. How? There are 2 main ways.
Either teams need to get sponsors or the series needs to and then split that with the teams.
Consistency and stability is a great start to attracting people. Where can they get some money for the series?
Open up the bidding to be title sponsor. Open up the bidding to badge the engines. Are they going to secure $millions? I doubt it, but whatever it is, it's a lot better than nothing. Try and build some relationships to build an audience. The days of people just writing checks are over. Before it was OK when FedEx paid $5M/yr and then did nothing. Now you need to get your name out there more than anything and get more eyes.
How about money for teams? It seems pretty clear that very few are going to get sponsor money to run the entire operation. But you can't tell me they can get nothing. Maybe you only get 25% of the cost to run a team for primary sponsorship (i.e. the car/team colors are based on the sponsor). It's a start and a whole lot better than holding out for more and getting nothing. Maybe over time that % will go up. It's in the interest of the sponsor and team/series to get more people watching. Agreements can be drawn up with a sliding scale.
Right now, CC has no leverage. The sponsors have the money and they don;'t need CC as much as CC needs them. Big concessions and discounts (compared to the past) have to be made.
I don't mean to make this seem easy, because I have no expereince trying to raise money like this, but I also find it hard to believe no one will hand over a penny.
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 02:00 PM
Agree very much with more money ,big car companies, and all great things that makes series strong but debate here is how to do it? Call them on the phone? Example: Milwaukee mile track with tradition, closed to Chicago, Andrettis etc and fans don't come in numbers that can make a profit.Same with best track in this country RA and others.This is new ball game,old formula as much liked does not work any more. Others with famus track and car co. complete money support can't make a dent. Old fans are tired and gone. What to do? Festival of speed? Maybe is good new idea to imbrace new yung generation to formula type racing and when you build it they [car co,] will come.New owners did not make this mess they are spending money to build it.With new car build for Champcar, racing will be good and this year tv is good. I see it as better.
Insomniac
03-10-07, 02:05 PM
Downgraded by? RM? O, please.
If you can't see CC has been downgraded over the years, there's no real point to even discuss this with you. Your position is delusional. My last attempt:
Long Beach 1994:
http://i15.tinypic.com/3za0cxx.gif
30 cars, 4 different engines, 3 differrent chassis, 1 tire manufacturer.
Long Beach 1997:
http://i17.tinypic.com/2llzzv9.gif
27 cars, 5 different engines, 4 differrent chassis, 2 tire manufacturers.
Long Beach 2000:
http://i17.tinypic.com/4ckhn6f.gif
25 cars, 4 different engines, 2 differrent chassis, 1 tire manufacturer.
Long Beach 2003:
http://i18.tinypic.com/4ctu2br.gif
19 cars, 1 engine, 2 differrent chassis, 2 tire manufacturer.
Insomniac
03-10-07, 02:05 PM
Long Beach 2006:
http://i19.tinypic.com/2r422l3.gif
18 cars, 1 engine, 1 chassis, 1 tire manufacturer.
Long Beach 2007? Does the contract require 18 cars? If so, they'll meet it. But LV is looking like 16 cars right now. In 2006, JV hopped in for a race at LB, his only race in 2006 and the only time that car ran all year.
(NOTE: Had to make 2 posts to include 5 images (4 image limit per post :()
Insomniac
03-10-07, 02:07 PM
Festival of speed? Maybe is good new idea to imbrace new yung generation to formula type racing and when you build it they [car co,] will come.New owners did not make this mess they are spending money to build it.With new car build for Champcar, racing will be good and this year tv is good. I see it as better.
You do realize the "festival of speed" is not a new idea right? CART/CC has had street races for a long, long time.
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 02:16 PM
You do realize the "festival of speed" is not a new idea right? CART/CC has had street races for a long, long time.
Angry at me? I'm just a fan who will show up at a race and supported. Old idea, new idea who cares as long as it works.
Hesketh
03-10-07, 02:20 PM
The spec Lola years have been weak in comparison.
Sorry to be nit-picky, but technically speaking, the Lola wasn't a spec car. The new Panoz, however, is, and it's one reason many have lost interest ... not to mention jobs. :thumdown:
jonovision_man
03-10-07, 02:31 PM
Angry at me? I'm just a fan who will show up at a race and supported. Old idea, new idea who cares as long as it works.
We're all fans here. This isn't a hater board, we're all people who follow the series, go to the races, etc.
And it's precisely because I'm a fan that I'm getting pissed off at what the series has become.
For the first time in a lonnnng time, I was optimistic about the coming season, and instead of delivering on the promise we get another year of struggle and mediocrity.
I wasn't even expecting as much as a lot of people here... I'd already assumed we'd be close to 18 than 24, and that the sponsorship situation wouldn't be hugely better. But I didn't expect to see it actually get worse, didn't expect Ford to bail and not be replaced, didn't expect Stoddart to take over an existing team rather than start his own, etc... I certainly didn't expect to be staring at the possibility of 16 cars. :thumdown:
I'm willing to support the series, I've done so for years, but at some point the fans need a break. We need a year that is better than the one before it, some sign that the sport is turning around, some reason for optimism.
Maybe next year. If there is a next year.
jono
Insomniac
03-10-07, 02:34 PM
Angry at me? I'm just a fan who will show up at a race and supported. Old idea, new idea who cares as long as it works.
Why would I be angry at you? You proposed that as a solution. But it's nothing new. It hasn't worked.
Who cares that Hideki Noda would be one of the 4-5 best drivers in the 2007 field. CCWS has 15 glorified F3000s and literally dozens of people who know what the hell it is. Fortune 500s only sponsor in Nascar because they don't know how big CC is for 2 weeks a year in a mid-sized Australian city and amongst monied Renault World Series washouts.
Racing Truth
03-10-07, 03:01 PM
Who cares that Hideki Noda would be one of the 4-5 best drivers in the 2007 field. CCWS has 15 glorified F3000s and literally dozens of people who know what the hell it is. Fortune 500s only sponsor in Nascar because they don't know how big CC is for 2 weeks a year in a mid-sized Australian city and amongst monied Renault World Series washouts.
:laugh: Heck, Shiggy could probably squeak out a few top 10's.:gomer:
How many new consumer oriented products simply show up on your store shelves without a marketing strategy? How many people would ever notice its existence?
I would think there would be a MAJOR marketing campaign for any new product that expects to be successful. What beyond preaching to the choir has CC done? What has been accomplished?.... The choir is turning away from the empty promises. It's as simple as that.
No, I don't trust anyone in racing except PLN...learned that from Penske, Ganassi, George, Rahal....
And I think every one of us who is concerned would LOVE to be proven wrong. I would be thrilled if in six months GoFast could tell me, "See, I told you so." But right now there is no evidence to support that happening.
Sean Malone
03-10-07, 03:10 PM
Sorry to be nit-picky, but technically speaking, the Lola wasn't a spec car. The new Panoz, however, is, and it's one reason many have lost interest ... not to mention jobs. :thumdown:
Right. I was just referring to everyone running a Lola.
Racing Truth
03-10-07, 03:12 PM
And I think every one of us who is concerned would LOVE to be proven wrong. I would be thrilled if in six months GoFast could tell me, "See, I told you so." But right now there is no evidence to support that happening.
Hater. You just don't know what Tristan means!:gomer:
In all seriousness, you are correct. 16 cars just doesn't cut it for a "professional" racing series. If they get to 18+, with good racing at solid venues, then we'll all gladly STFU. I'm not going to go out and bet on that proposition AT THIS POINT, however.
8 rookies no one have heard of...
You've never heard of Rahal, Pagenaud, Dalziel, Halliday, or Figge?
And I think every one of us who is concerned would LOVE to be proven wrong. I would be thrilled if in six months GoFast could tell me, "See, I told you so." But right now there is no evidence to support that happening.
Absolutely. I keep wondering what am I not understanding or hearing that others are, that makes CC look so optimistic to them and not me?
Until I read that a real sponsor spent real dollars, I'll continue to wonder. The official french fry of CC type of announcements being made the last couple years don't really amount to much as I see it.
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 06:32 PM
[QUOTE=RTKar;188706]Absolutely. I keep wondering what am I not understanding or hearing that others are, that makes CC look so optimistic to them and not me?
Ok, you are not optimistic then. Why CC look so optimistic to me? Im just that type of a fan. Can't help my self and don't see any good reason to belive a guy who just was fired and writes for co. that would like to see CC gone. Yes it would be nice to have big sponsors and support of big car co. but today at Laguna guys are braking records with a awesome new car and for love of racing enjoy it.
Spicoli
03-10-07, 06:52 PM
[QUOTE=RTKar;188706]Absolutely. I keep wondering what am I not understanding or hearing that others are, that makes CC look so optimistic to them and not me?
Ok, you are not optimistic then. Why CC look so optimistic to me? Im just that type of a fan. Can't help my self and don't see any good reason to belive a guy who just was fired and writes for co. that would like to see CC gone. Yes it would be nice to have big sponsors and support of big car co. but today at Laguna guys are braking records with a awesome new car and for love of racing enjoy it.
when people ask me what I like about OW racing so much, I tell them its a very unique sport in that its a blend of:
1. Cutting Edge Engineering
2. Athleticism
3. Money
4. Power
If money is that important to the sport (moreso than say playing basketball or hockey), don't you think you would kind of see a decline in the quality and viability of the sport if the money started drying up?
I'm seeing a decline in the quality and viability of the sport for sure. 16 drivers, all but 2 of them pay drivers?!:shakehead
That's why we discuss this stuff.
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 07:16 PM
[QUOTE=Spicoli;
That's why we discuss this stuff.[/QUOTE]
Agree that we are here to discuss this stuff. Champcar sucks.Happy now?
Hesketh
03-10-07, 07:30 PM
[QUOTE=RTKar;188706]
don't see any good reason to belive a guy who just was fired and writes for co. that would like to see CC gone.
If you're talking about Robin, you're way off base. He doesn't want to see Champ Car gone. He wants to see it healthy, but it's a long bleedin' way from being healthy.
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 07:44 PM
[QUOTE=GOFAST1;188714]
If you're talking about Robin, you're way off base. He doesn't want to see Champ Car gone. He wants to see it healthy, but it's a long bleedin' way from being healthy.
OK. Thank you for clarifying that for me.
Spicoli
03-10-07, 07:50 PM
[QUOTE=Hesketh;188725]
OK. Thank you for clarifying that for me.
:cry:
:thumdown:
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 07:55 PM
[]
:cry:
:thumdown:
Impressive.
Spicoli
03-10-07, 07:58 PM
Impressive.
I'm a realist.
I hope everything works out, really I do.
This series is like a ****ing cockroach...stomped 100 times...still hangin on...:\
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 08:03 PM
I'm a realist.
I hope everything works out, really I do.
This series is like a ****ing cockroach...stomped 100 times...still hangin on...:\
Angry again? That is not good.
Only thing real today is 1:05.880 at Laguna
Ok, you are not optimistic then. Why CC look so optimistic to me? Im just that type of a fan.
There's a term used to describe your type of fan; it involves a powdwered fruit drink, I think.
Can't help my self and don't see any good reason to belive a guy who just was fired and writes for co. that would like to see CC gone.
Wants to see it gone?? Holy BS, Batman!
Yes it would be nice to have big sponsors and support of big car co.
Yes, it would be necessary to have...
but today at Laguna guys are braking records with a awesome new car and for love of racing enjoy it.I wholeheartedly grant you the last point. New track record, baby!
Wants to see it gone?? Holy BS, Batman!
If Robin writes a story that says it should be sold to Tony George, doesn't that mean he want's to see it gone?
jonovision_man
03-10-07, 08:30 PM
I'm a realist.
I hope everything works out, really I do.
This series is like a ****ing cockroach...stomped 100 times...still hangin on...:\
Realists suck. :gomer:
http://casadelogo.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/cheerleader_chic_fashion.jpg
jono
If Robin writes a story that says it should be sold to Tony George, doesn't that mean he want's to see it gone?I read that as total frustration and baiting. He's got a long historical record of wanting little to do with FTG, just his track.
IMO, RM was just trying to be an asterisk-word. Pretty well nailed it, too.
Insomniac
03-10-07, 08:41 PM
If Robin writes a story that says it should be sold to Tony George, doesn't that mean he want's to see it gone?
You have a point, but I think what RM wants more than anything is OWR in the US to be healthy. Whether the sell to TG thing was tongue-in-cheek or serious, I don't know though.
Sean Malone
03-10-07, 08:53 PM
Angry again? That is not good.
Only thing real today is 1:05.880 at Laguna
Very cool. When is the Lauguna race? I don't see it on the sched.
You have a point, but I think what RM wants more than anything is OWR in the US to be healthy. Whether the sell to TG thing was tongue-in-cheek or serious, I don't know though.
Ditto. Me thinks RM sees this as the only way it can possibly survive. I'm beginning to agree.... :\
-Kevin
Sean Malone
03-10-07, 08:57 PM
If Robin writes a story that says it should be sold to Tony George, doesn't that mean he want's to see it gone?
Both Robin and D Phillips have written numerous times about how a merger is the only way to even possibly save AOW. I don't think it's a matter of seeing them die, but a matter of comparing the assets. IRL - some sponsors, a few big teams , Honda and the INdy 500. Champ Car, LB, RA, Australia, Cleveland and the DP01. So sell the cars to Tony and merge the schedule and everyone pats each other on the back.
I'm die hard fan and I don't know better. Ideas?
euthanasia?
you'd at least be doing the gene pool a noble service
Sean Malone
03-10-07, 09:52 PM
euthanasia?
you'd at least be doing the gene pool a noble service
:rofl:
Game...on. :)
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 09:54 PM
euthanasia?
you'd at least be doing the gene pool a noble service
Did you come up with that your self or just see it on tv now that took you this long to get personal?
you asked, I obliged :)
you don't see me pissing all over CCFantasies do you?
Very cool. When is the Lauguna race? I don't see it on the sched.
:laugh:
Its right after Milwaukee and just before Mid-Ohio.
btw, is it me or is there a small influx of guests from Fantasy Island lately? They're on missions, Elder Young style, aiming to spread the word of the man who is just,,, a,,, dreamer,,,
GOFAST1
03-10-07, 10:15 PM
you asked, I obliged :)
you don't see me pissing all over CCFantasies do you?
I undarstand.Things must be boring in gomer land.
yea, this is gomer land :laugh:
jonovision_man
03-10-07, 10:34 PM
I love this place. :rofl:
RHR_Fan
03-10-07, 10:41 PM
:laugh:
Its right after Milwaukee and just before Mid-Ohio.
btw, is it me or is there a small influx of guests from Fantasy Island lately? They're on missions, Elder Young style, aiming to spread the word of the man who is just,,, a,,, dreamer,,,
After Milwaukee and before M-O? Talk about an announcement I missed! ;)
I love this place. :rofl:
Yeah, but we still suck at meltdowns. :D
Turbodog
03-10-07, 10:59 PM
Champcar is a shadow of what it once was... The product has changed, It has been downgraded from a series to a second rate circus...
Remember?
3 engine Mfgt.
2+ Chasis
2 Tire Mfgt.
Sponsors
24+ Deep Field
More than 14 teams
Ovals, Closed Circuits and Street Circuits
Houshold names
Diverse Pace cars
Series Official Sponsor
What is left?
Spec cars
less than 12 teams
Bridgstones
Panoz
Cossworth
Mazda pace car team
8 rookies no one have heard of...
The people who had started to make a name, gone
This is not the same series... it is a new series and it is not good...
We have been hanging around year after year, patiently waiting for next year when things will get better... This is the worst year so far... yet the same BS is being fed...
Time to wake up and smell the coffee...
The Champcar we all grew to love is gone and dead...
Bingo...the series now has a cheap look as compared to what it used to look like. I went to all the old Houston GPs and when they came back last May the look they had was like night and day.
Turbodog
03-10-07, 11:00 PM
yea, this is gomer land :laugh:
:gomer:
:gomer:
way to show up 2 weekends ago **** sucker, i already ****ing moved away :p
Insomniac
03-10-07, 11:41 PM
I undarstand.Things must be boring in gomer land.
Wow, I never thought this place would be called :tony:land. Things must really be bad in CC. We get like this every year it seems.
Sean Malone
03-11-07, 12:58 AM
Wow, I never thought this place would be called :tony:land. Things must really be bad in CC. We get like this every year it seems.
It's simply youthful Champ Car enthusiasts not understanding the bigger picture.
The paint with a broad brush and long stroke, Sean Malone.
P Hanley
03-11-07, 01:31 AM
Thank you FTG
Thank you ?RM
Negative is negative, Positive is positive. I'm always trying to look at the positive,and F the negative. This series we love is never going to be the series of old. All we can hope is that it gets stronger and better. RM says something negative, be it deservedly or not, gets everyone thinking negatively. When I first stsarted reading this thread I started to get pissed, but then I stopped, thought for a second and said, screw it, I love champ car racing, the sound of the motors, seeing a champ car going into turn one @ long beach downshifting and accelerating through the turn, the crazy PT moves into turn one, the start of summer, OK I'm losing it a little bit, but I'm going back to see more and theres nothing FTG or ?RM can say thats going to change that
Spicoli
03-11-07, 01:42 AM
Thank you FTG
Thank you ?RM
Negative is negative, Positive is positive. I'm always trying to look at the positive,and F the negative. This series we love is never going to be the series of old. All we can hope is that it gets stronger and better. RM says something negative, be it deservedly or not, gets everyone thinking negatively. When I first stsarted reading this thread I started to get pissed, but then I stopped, thought for a second and said, screw it, I love champ car racing, the sound of the motors, seeing a champ car going into turn one @ long beach downshifting and accelerating through the turn, the crazy PT moves into turn one, the start of summer, OK I'm losing it a little bit, but I'm going back to see more and theres nothing FTG or ?RM can say thats going to change that
oh mang. :rofl:
EDwardo
03-11-07, 01:52 AM
It's simply youthful Champ Car enthusiasts not understanding the bigger picture.
The paint with a broad brush and long stroke, Sean Malone.
Is that you John?:yuck:
Whether your views are pessimistic or optimistic, many of you need to focus on responding to points and stop calling people either gomers or fanboys just because you're unable or unwilling to respond intelligently.
There is no party line here.
devilmaster
03-11-07, 02:11 AM
There is no party line here.
Damn! I wanted to Conga. ;)
Insomniac
03-11-07, 11:24 AM
Thank you FTG
Thank you ?RM
Negative is negative, Positive is positive. I'm always trying to look at the positive,and F the negative. This series we love is never going to be the series of old. All we can hope is that it gets stronger and better. RM says something negative, be it deservedly or not, gets everyone thinking negatively. When I first stsarted reading this thread I started to get pissed, but then I stopped, thought for a second and said, screw it, I love champ car racing, the sound of the motors, seeing a champ car going into turn one @ long beach downshifting and accelerating through the turn, the crazy PT moves into turn one, the start of summer, OK I'm losing it a little bit, but I'm going back to see more and theres nothing FTG or ?RM can say thats going to change that
If you don't want to know about the behind the scenes business, why are you hanging out here? You can call it "negative" but there are a whole lot more facts behind that than "I believe CC will be fine".
If you don't want to know about the behind the scenes business, why are you hanging out here? You can call it "negative" but there are a whole lot more facts behind that than "I believe CC will be fine".
...it's the new PR campaign on the cheap. Didn't you get the memo?
Insomniac
03-11-07, 11:34 AM
...it's the new PR campaign on the cheap. Didn't you get the memo?
I missed it, and it's not working so well. We probably would've moved on if people didn't want to argue about it. :)
Turbodog
03-11-07, 03:37 PM
way to show up 2 weekends ago **** sucker, i already ****ing moved away :p
I am lame what can I say:tony:
btw, is it me or is there a small influx of guests from Fantasy Island lately? They're on missions, Elder Young style, aiming to spread the word of the man who is just,,, a,,, dreamer,,,
Thank you FTG
Thank you ?RM
Negative is negative, Positive is positive. I'm always trying to look at the positive,and F the negative. This series we love is never going to be the series of old. All we can hope is that it gets stronger and better. RM says something negative, be it deservedly or not, gets everyone thinking negatively. When I first stsarted reading this thread I started to get pissed, but then I stopped, thought for a second and said, screw it, I love champ car racing, the sound of the motors, seeing a champ car going into turn one @ long beach downshifting and accelerating through the turn, the crazy PT moves into turn one, the start of summer, OK I'm losing it a little bit, but I'm going back to see more and theres nothing FTG or ?RM can say thats going to change that
jonovision_man
03-11-07, 04:46 PM
Yeah, but we still suck at meltdowns. :D
I've been practicing... !!! I'm ready for the next one. :D
jono
I’m not saying it’s hopeless, but I have no solution for what ails open wheel racing. The problem is the product, and all the marketing in the world won't make people come to the races if they don't want to. Once you provide something people want, they will beat a path to your door; ask NASCAR, or your dealer.
The problem is that solutions offered, including Robin Miller’s, have been tried before and failed, are prohibitively expensive, or are pie in the sky:
There never will be a merger, and if there is one, it will a case of two series that no one wants becoming one series that no one wants. I tend to think Miller is on to something regarding have a more stable driver lineup, but the IRL is more stable then Champ Car is, and no one wants the IRL either. The World of Outlaws has lots of American drivers, but it’s struggling with bankruptcy. Real road courses tend to be real roomy for the fans that do show up. I was at Milwaukee time before last, had to laugh at purchasing my tickets in advance to assure a good seat; the race was great though, and teams that are put on welfare tend to stay on welfare.
We can criticize Kevin and Gerry all we want, but it’s not our money. All I know for sure is that I’m going to Cleveland and Road America, and I hope to see you there.
Is that you John?:yuck:
:rofl: Either that gomer or a cheap clone.
Hard Driver
03-12-07, 04:24 PM
We are all champcar fans or we would not be here.
But I think RM is also a Champcar fan, but his job is not to do feel good PR, his job is to report on motorsports. And so if his opinion piece is not all rosey, the problem is not his opinion, the problem is that there are not enough positives to refute his opinion.
Sure, I look forward to this year.
New car looks racy and hopefully should produce better racing.
New TV package would make the series available to many more people, if the show that gets put on is entertaining.
However, there is still the real issues that there are not enough cars, not enough sponsors, not enough big names.
Personally, I think my biggest disappointment is the loss of Ford and the proposed souped up Mustang series. I think that while there may be real business reasons that the three amigos decided to let Ford go, it seems like a short cited decision with a lack of marketing consideration. Ford was a reputable company that added credibility. I don't think the value of that credibility was considered. Also, the Mustang series would breed probably as much interest as Champ Car (unfortunately but true) and would generate the hype and coolness that attracts new young fans.
Lets be serious, how many here became ChampCar fans late in life?
How many fans became Champcar fans during the Indy 500 era?
Champcar needs to address these by promoting some races as "big ones". Nascar even has the playoffs now. Horse racing has the triple crown. The IRL has Indy still. Champcar needs to create a triple crown with Long Beach, Surfers and Road America. Each of these pay a bigger purse, and there should be a bonus for winning all three. There also should be a points bonus awarded based upon the average points earned during these three races to make the races more important for everyone.
Champcar needs to also figure out how to market to the younger crowd, and this is where I thought the mustang series would be good.
There is no chicken and egg here. The fans needs to be watching on TV and following the sport before the sponsors and $$ will flow into the series. So while there have been lots of good innovations technically to improve the racing product, (new car, red tires, push to pass) the series needs to work on building hype to build fans.
oddlycalm
03-12-07, 04:44 PM
There never will be a merger, and if there is one, it will a case of two series that no one wants becoming one series that no one wants. Agreed, the world moved on. A new generation of race fans came up that don't identify with formula car drivers. BTW, I agree with the rest of your post as well. RM's comments about the number of US drivers, driver continuity, etc. are all good things but as you correctly point out having US drivers with name recognition plus $3 guarantees you a cup of coffee at Starbucks and not much more.
That said, the ability of the two separate series to sustain 36 full time cars in today's sponsorship climate is impossible on a continuing basis IMO. TG screwed up the works just prior to the tobacco money running out and the convergence of those two factors made a perfect storm. Just when CART should have been developing new sponsors the whole thing was turned on it's head.
When I watch the successful teams in NASCAR going to extreme lengths to get sponsor money (Rousch/Fenway, soon to be others) and the massive concern over cost in F1 I don't think the exit of the tobacco funding can be overstated and it is coming at a time when oil companies don't need to do much advertising to sell all the gasoline they can pump at record prices.
RM is correct in a bigger picture sense though; unless Champ Car can come up with an interesting product and put forth some effort to market it they will have squandered the fan base that represented the real value in those assets they bought out of bankruptcy.
oc
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