Detroit, rock-bottom city

[G.]

Maybe a race would save the city.

This sux.

link (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070319/ts_nm/usa_subprime_detroit_dc;_ylt=AmGDWBe29EsMLcneGErYJ tsDW7oF)

DETROIT (Reuters) - With bidding stalled on some of the least desirable residences in Detroit's collapsing housing market, even the fast-talking auctioneer was feeling the stress.

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"Folks, the ground underneath the house goes with it. You do know that, right?" he offered.

After selling house after house in the Motor City for less than the $29,000 it costs to buy the average new car, the auctioneer tried a new line: "The lumber in the house is worth more than that!"

As Detroit reels from job losses in the U.S. auto industry, the depressed city has emerged as a boomtown in one area: foreclosed property.

It also stands as a case study in the economic pain from a housing bust as analysts consider whether a developing crisis in mortgages to high-risk borrowers will trigger a slowdown in the broader U.S. economy.

[Andrew Longman]

These homes and communities on the bottom end of the market are being hit hardest by the housing bust. Many were first time buyers, often Hispanic, who were the energy to turn these neighborhoods around. Unfortunately they also were targets for sub-prime lending and took a hit when rates when up.

The saddest thing now is these neighborhoods have so many forclosures that's been impossible to sell a home unless it is forclosed. No one is willing to pay full price in these neighborhood no matter how nicely the homes have been fixed up.

In the end these communities may be more run down than when they started.

[devilmaster]

Not surprising.

There are websites about Detroit that show how old neighborhoods are returning to nature.

Hell, Windsor got made fun of this week on the Colbert Report.... :D

We're a hurtin area right now.


Maybe a race would save the city.

Well, we'll see come this Labor day. ALMS and IRL at Belle Isle baby! :laugh:

[oddlycalm]

There are websites about Detroit that show how old neighborhoods are returning to nature. True. There is the Ruins of Detroit site and now there are tours as well as many of the downtown buildings are of architectural or historical significance.

You don't need a website tour though, all you need is Google Earth's hybrid view. The areas that are going natural are really significant in size. Just one area off of Grand River Blvd. near Canfield has to be at least a square mile (640 acres) and has gone completely natural. Many other areas, such around the art museum, have one lonely house every few blocks and look like post-WWII Dresden or similar. The industrial areas are worse yet as there are seemingly endless numbers of factories large and small where nature is slowly reclaiming the buildings. The former Grand Trunk Railroad right of way is now an empty corridor that runs for miles.

BTW, all of this predates the current sub-prime lender blowup as it has been this way for going back 10yrs. If it weren't insanely dangerous due to the level of violent crime it might be practical to start grazing cattle there and operating truck farms.

oc

[eiregosod]

what are the plans to renovate the city?

Liverspots has the political connections (I'm sure he had those connections before he headed up the SuperBowl committee), and his ew-improved Indycar race at Belle ISle ensures year-round access to the guys in city hall.

[RichK]

I'm hoping the executives (past and present) at the Big Three feel a sense of responsibility for this, but I doubt it.

[Andrew Longman]

BTW, all of this predates the current sub-prime lender blowup as it has been this way for going back 10yrs. If it weren't insanely dangerous due to the level of violent crime it might be practical to start grazing cattle there and operating truck farms.

oc

As far as Detroit neighborhoods going natural, sure. Anything inside of 11 Mile has been going downhill since the riots in 68. When GM tore down one of the last reasonably stable working class neighborhoods in Hamtramick to build a Cadillac plant in the 80s it killed off the last of the social fabric needed to keep the city functioning.

My point about the sub prime market was more about neighborhoods in DTW and across the country that a teetering on the edge of a slippery slope towards something like the worst of DTW areas.

[chop456]

what are the plans to renovate the city?

http://ec3.images-amazon.com/images/P/6305046824.01._AA280_SCLZZZZZZZ_.gif

[Ankf00]

doesn't the fact that the outlying affluent suburbs constitute a seperate tax base from that of the urban areas (much like what outlying areas in Atlanta are proposing) have a significant impact?

[devilmaster]

Its not all bad though - like hockey? Find some skates, a puck, and head to the nearest abandoned building.

http://www.detroitfunk.com/imagecopyrighted/FEB07/DCP_1494.jpg
http://www.detroitfunk.com/imagecopyrighted/FEB07/DCP_1442.jpg

rest of the shots here http://www.detroitfunk.com/2007/02/28/building_hockey.htm

As for plans to revitalize? There ARE plans??? ;)

After making downtown a special area, everything has been sunk to fix that up. And its finally comin round. I suspect that they'll hopefully push the revitalized downtown out as time passes. Letting the rest of it rot makes it a whole lot easier.

[oddlycalm]

doesn't the fact that the outlying affluent suburbs constitute a separate tax base from that of the urban areas (much like what outlying areas in Atlanta are proposing) have a significant impact?
You're right, that's what fueled the original decline of the city, but now even the suburbs are hurting as the domestic auto companies and their suppliers slowly implode. There are places being auctioned off in posh Bloomfield Hills at 20% of what the expected asking price. Even the scotch and cigar guys gotta make a move with the money stops and at some point the inventory of unsold houses forces desperation moves.

If the domestic auto companies do fully fold the tent anyone care to guess at what that crater will look like...?

oc

[oddlycalm]

As far as Detroit neighborhoods going natural, sure. Anything inside of 11 Mile has been going downhill since the riots in 68. When GM tore down one of the last reasonably stable working class neighborhoods in Hamtramick to build a Cadillac plant in the 80s it killed off the last of the social fabric needed to keep the city functioning.

My point about the sub prime market was more about neighborhoods in DTW and across the country that a teetering on the edge of a slippery slope towards something like the worst of DTW areas. Right, didn't mean to imply that the sub prime meltdown won't take other neighborhoods down with it. This crater is only going to get bigger.

People that live in the 'burbs always point to Greek Town when this subject comes is raised, but they have blinders on and just drive to Greek Town, eat, then head back home. What folks that actually live there see is more along the lines of what devilmaster posted. :D In some ways it's like a giant uninhabited playground.

oc

[devilmaster]

People that live in the 'burbs always point to Greek Town when this subject comes is raised, but they have blinders on and just drive to Greek Town, eat, then head back home. What folks that actually live there see is more along the lines of what devilmaster posted. :D In some ways it's like a giant uninhabited playground.

oc

Exactly. Most of suburbanites just hop on I75 and drive into downtown, and for the most part the houses along the highway don't look that bad. But there are some major depressed areas. The city is so hurting for cash they can't afford to make major changes on their own - so as long as a Mike Illitch can make some major coin like downtown, then things will get improved.

The city announced a couple years back that the old Michigan Central was going to be fixed up and the Detroit Police would HQ there - then that quietly died. Its sorta like Champcar - make a big announcement, and then it doesn't happen.

[Wheel-Nut]

Its not all bad though - like hockey? Find some skates, a puck, and head to the nearest abandoned building.

.

What did they do, flood the floor? or is that just a natural occurance in the frozen wastelands north of Dallas? :D

[Andrew Longman]

People that live in the 'burbs always point to Greek Town when this subject comes is raised, but they have blinders on and just drive to Greek Town, eat, then head back home. What folks that actually live there see is more along the lines of what devilmaster posted. :D In some ways it's like a giant uninhabited playground.

oc


And Greektown is a fraction of what it was 30 years ago. It amounts to a few block of restaurants now.

What Detroit needs, and what many towns starting with Baltimore and AC that tried urban renewal is to get people of means to actually live downtown, It is not enough to get them to come to a baseball game, or to eat, or to a casino.

Unless you can get people to live there they simply retreat to the suburbs and a full set of services and the full economy and tax base that go with it will never develop.

Ironically, places like Cleveland and Detroit actually moved out viable neighborhoods for "economic development" that in the long run helped finish off the downtown.

[Ankf00]

article in todays nytimes about cleveland's impending problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/23/us/23vacant.html?hp

[Andrew Longman]

article in todays nytimes about cleveland's impending problem: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/23/us/23vacant.html?hp

Shaker Heights? Geez. Pretty nice neighorhood. Childhood home to Paul Newman IIRC.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Shaker Heights can be real hit or miss, IIRC. Why live in an inner-ring suburb when you can move 30 miles out to Medina or Avon or who knows where and live in a bland development? At least then you don't have to worry about living near black people. :rolleyes:

Urban sprawl sucks. :thumdown:

[Andrew Longman]

At least then you don't have to worry about living near black people. :rolleyes:
:

Now Sean, you didn't really mean that, did you?

[Gnam]

Urban sprawl sucks. :thumdown:
Without urban sprawl where would parking lots come from? http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/52/conequ2.gif :gomer: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/4830/conecarnagewc8.gif

[TKGAngel]

Shaker Heights can be real hit or miss, IIRC. Why live in an inner-ring suburb when you can move 30 miles out to Medina or Avon or who knows where and live in a bland development? At least then you don't have to worry about living near black people. :rolleyes:

Urban sprawl sucks. :thumdown:

It might not be the most politically correct thing to say, but SOG hit the nail on the head. Affluent suburbs with bland developments create homogenized communities. Each McMansion starts to blend in with the next. Cost limits who can and can't move into the area.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Without urban sprawl where would parking lots come from? http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/52/conequ2.gif :gomer: http://img391.imageshack.us/img391/4830/conecarnagewc8.gif

Urban sprawl is the enemy of autocross. Nothing kills an autocross lot like neighbors complaining about the noise. And its not just autocross either. I just can't wait for the day when Road Atlanta becomes rezoned for housing. :(

[Sean O'Gorman]

Now Sean, you didn't really mean that, did you?

I doubt you'll find too many people who will admit that up front (well, outside of Parma), but living here my whole life, I know that kind of attitude exists.

Interesting article about the situation from 20 years ago:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940DE5D91731F933A05753C1A96E9482 60&sec=&pagewanted=print

[nrc]

Another aspect of a this problem is that foreclosed homes often turn into rental properties, which in turn attracts residents with little motivation to maintain the property or keep the neighborhood nice.

In a lot of places the bottom line is that the housing industry is building more homes than there is growth to absorb. That inevitably leave homes vacant.

[oddlycalm]

I doubt you'll find too many people who will admit that up front They don't have to, after 50yrs of white flight followed by decades of near-apartheid separation it's not a real well kept secret...:gomer:

The final irony is that a such a large percentage of the kids in those suburbs fled themselves as soon as they were able to in order to avoid living surrounded by insular and bigoted thinking in flavorless strip mall suburbia. By losing their best and brightest they condemned their own communities to the same eventual fate as the cities they once fled.

oc

[Ankf00]

They don't have to, after 50yrs of white flight followed by decades of near-apartheid separation it's not a real well kept secret...:gomer: my old housemate in Dallas, his grandmother always said that "y'all are taking the neighborhoods back. good for you" :laugh:


The final irony is that a such a large percentage of the kids in those suburbs fled themselves as soon as they were able to in order to avoid living surrounded by insular and bigoted thinking in flavorless strip mall suburbia.yep. the biggest complaint of my friends that moved back to the burbs and bought a house is the difficulty of meeting young, educated, single people with their lives in order (ie: no warrants or affinity for blow) who can also speak in complete sentences (as you've said). I chose to do the reverse commute myself in Dallas, pretty much every friend of mine from out of state that ended up in Clear Lake for NASA out of school has moved into Houston proper by now and do the reverse commute as well. everyone I graduated with that went into O&G (the far majority) did the midtown/heights/montrose/uptown thing right out of school, even if they had to commute way the hell out to Texas City or Baytown to get to their refinery. Haliburton's way out on the west side on the beltway, conoco phillips is out in Katy, and heading that way on the freeway is murder. But they all do the reverse commute anyway.

My old housemmate moved from new suburban DFW into one of the older gentrified neighborhoods 5 mins from downtown. The same goes for some friends who stuck around Austin, sold their suburban house they bought out of school and then moved into town. Same story every time.

[Kahauna Dreamer]

I was looking at places around Galveston and Kemah exactly one month ago; GF and I cannot afford to buy a home in San Francisco, period—let alone a place on the water—but we saw a lot of places we could afford around there.

[nrc]

everyone I graduated with that went into O&G (the far majority) did the midtown/heights/montrose/uptown thing right out of school, even if they had to commute way the hell out to Texas City or Baytown to get to their refinery.

Honest question - do you think that will continue to be the pattern as they settle down and start families?

[KLang]

Honest question - do you think that will continue to be the pattern as they settle down and start families?

Good point, the better financed school systems are in the suburbs.

[Andrew Longman]

Good point, the better financed school systems are in the suburbs.

Not in Jersey. Thirty-one urban schools, by state supreme court ruling, get 700% of the state school funding that suburban and rural schools get. But that's another story.

The the East and in many urban areas young people have moved into urban centers because it is the only means to find affordable housing. Builders are building too many entry level housing in McMansionville, USA.

But older, urban houses tend not to be big enough to hold what people today feel is need to raise a family and so those that stay in these urban neighborhoods once they are fixed up tend to be DINKS and same sex couples, of which there are getting to be more and more all the time. The economic case against having kids just gets stronger all the time and many people simply put it off later and later until they put it off all together.

My town for example is made up mostly of 3 bedroom Victorian era homes less than about 2500 sq feet. Most of the homes have been restored in the last 20 years and the population has held pretty steady at about 1200. But the number of kids in the K-8 has dropped from 225 to about 135.

The demographic data on fertility rates is actually pretty scary, but that too is another story.

[Ankf00]

Honest question - do you think that will continue to be the pattern as they settle down and start families?
the bridge & groom already live in Sugarland, close on a house next week in her parents' neighborhood. The best man lives on the west side near work. They're the minority though. A few folks do the in town thing because it's the cool thing to do, they'd be the ones to move back out as well, and others are already there as posted above, but most of us do it because we realize how clueless we were of society and culture in general coming out of 'burbs and being dropped up in the middle of a metropolitan area and the dramatic (at the time) experiences it afforded us. I was clueless about so much of Houston up until I was 21 when my sis moved back to town and settled in the city, and I'd visit her on the weekends and she'd show me around. When its time to settle, I think most will settle in established, urban, family friends areas such as Memorial and West U. Others will continue the transformation The Heights and Montrose have undergone. if they're still in Houston. Most of us are doing well, and the O&G folks are doing ridiculously well, just look at your gas prices :D When the time comes in 2-5 years, most will be able to handle the financial burden of living in more affluent urban areas. The square footage argument doesn't hold up since they've already shown that's not a main priority, the cultural bonuses that urban lifestyle affords is (if you're already living without loads of possessions and furniture, you're not going to instantly start loading up on goods and hardware, my old housemates in Dallas are hte opposite, had so many possessions to unload when they moved, but they can't live with the mere 2400 sq ft they moved to, they're going to have a 3500-4000 sqft mcmansion since they just need that space, it's what they're used to). And I believe most of them would want to provide such a life for their children if they're able when the time comes.


Good point, the better financed school systems are in the suburbs.
Maybe, but I'd have no compunction settling in town and sending my kid to a Vanguard school. HISD may get a bad rap overall, but with regard to Vanguard programs they're doing very well. Memorial and Bellaire are excellent and just as good as Clear Lake or Katy Taylor, etc. I have as many friends from MHS & bhs as Katy, Woodlands, the Colony, CL, etc. In Dallas St. Mark's and Hockaday Academies are the main go to's, there's Highland Park, Berkner, and Lake Highlands as well. The outlying suburbs in Austin are only 10 or so years old, so all my Austin friends, save one, grew up in town, Travis Heights, Westlake, Tarrytown, Hyde Park, and went to solid schools like Westlake, Austin High, Travis, magnet @ LBJ.

IMO, it's not difficult to go to great schools in the city and live in decent neighborhoods. You just can't have the 3500-5000 sq ft tract built housing in the manicured new development.

I've already posted this story once before about the bride from last week: back during my 3rd year when the lot of us went to east austin to hit up a bbq joint after a ball game she freaked out. east austin's the "ghetto" (nevermind all the new mixed-use developments popping up and the hipsters moving out there), street lights are dim, the businesses and homes are quite modest, she sees one black guy walking, she freaks, she sees a 2nd black guy walking 2 mins later, she starts screaming at the top of her lungs to get her out of the neighborhood. I am not embellishing a thing. That's just one extreme case, I know, but If I have children, I refuse to let that happen, but knowing my luck, I bet I end up with a daughter like that :shakehead. Have I said FSugarland this week?


I'm lucky, my parents have put me in a position where I can afford to provide what I want for my kids if the time comes. I can't stress enough how much my preception of the world changed between ages 18 and 19 after leaving the 'burbs, and with most of my friends life experiences is the main factor as well. Much of this is all anecdotal on my part, you can meet vapid tools anywhere, or interesting, rounded people anywhere, but they're the conclusions my experiences thus far have led me to. Much like Levittown, the post war boom, and the National Insterstate and Defense Highways Act shifted the social strucuture clear across America. There's a pendulum response these past 10 years my generation is driving, which my older sister's started that will have an equally dramatic impact on America's social structure.

[oddlycalm]

Honest question - do you think that will continue to be the pattern as they settle down and start families? Totally depends on where you live. It's certainly the case on all three coasts and some other cities like Chicago, Austin, Atlanta, etc. The only real barrier to families is the price, a barrier that I don't minimize.

In the city you trade price/square foot for the convenience of living close to everything. In an era of expensive fuel it simply becomes a more attractive bargain.

oc

[eiregosod]

OttoWeak interview with bernie Ecclestone in january 1989:

<don't shoot the messenger>


"In the past we haven't been very fortunate with people understanding the commitments they've made. We've had misfortunes at Dallas, Long Beach and Detroit," he said or the search for a venue for F1 racing in the U.S. "It's funny we don't have problems like that in places like Mexico and Brazil, which are supposed to be where the bad people are. They make their commitments and meet the standards that we set, but in the States we seem to have to accept another standard."

Ecclestone was insistent in his displeasure with what he considers to be Detroit's failure to make any improvements in the layout of the through-the-streets track. "We've got what we consider a Class A act and we perform in Class A venues. Detroit was Class C," Ecclestone said. "They did nothing to the track layout or pits and garage facilities in the seven years we were there. They never spent a dime in all that time to improve the facility for the public or for us. They put the same old rubbish up every year.

"What upsets me is that (Detroit Renaissance president Bob) McCabe didn't hear what I was telling him. Even to the extent that I said I would pay for a new pit complex to be built. I think (the CART) race will only happen for a year or two. Maybe they'll make a little money out of it and bow out happily.

"CART is prepared," Ecclestone went on, "to accept their standards and we're not. It's just as simple as that. If we lower the standards in Detroit, how can we expect the Japanese and Australians to spend the kind of money and effort they do on their races? They do a tremendous job in Japan and Australia. Look at the pit complex and facilities for public in Mexico. They've got a tremendous inflation problem in Mexico and yet the GP promoter in that country has no problem meeting our standards."

Ecclestone said FISA wants to establish a strong F1 date in the U.S. but has had trouble finding a suitable Stateside partner. "I'm sorry to say," he philosophized, "that it seems to me the American people in general are prepared to accept a lower standard than the people in the rest of today's world. I think maybe the economy in America is in the state it's in because of this. Nobody in Japanese industry and life in general, they're long-term investors. In America they want to know what's the bottom line and when do we get paid. Unfortunately that's what's happened to America and it isn't any good any more.

"This applies to motor racing as well," Ecclestone said. "Why hasn't anybody in America put up the sort of race track that we've got in most countries where we race throughout the world? People say, 'Ecclestone, you want to open your big mouth, why don't you come and do it?' The answer is very simple and that is it's a long-term commitment and I can't seem to find anyone in America who'll go into the deal with that attitude. Maybe I'll have to do it myself.

[Spicoli]

Man, hadn't seen this thread and read it until now.


the same stuff is happening in Indy, big time. I'm interested to hear what other Indy folks think of my perceptions on this subject.


The background is this:

Indy was known as Naptown for years. Then in 1970, then Mayor Dick Lugar (now Senator) "installed" what is now known as UNIGOV. This took the whole county (Marion) to become Indianapolis - in tax base, etc. BUT, we still had seperate mini-governments in each township, meaning fire departments, schools, etc. Then we had the Sherriff's dept AND the IPD with some sort of fugged up boundries thru-out the county. A complete mess. A good idea, but it was never completed in its theory and now today its finally happening. Our IPD & MCSD are "Consolidated", now the Fire Departments are moving that way, and soon it will be all the schools. Yep, goodbye towneship schools, hello IPS thru-out Marion County.

I know the City Controller of Indy, and have had many interesting chats with him about the financial health of sities like Indy, and its a really compelling and complicated thing to try and understand. The #1 driver in getting people out of the city proper has beed/is schools. The influx of Mexican illegals and the sustained abundance of cheap mortgages has basically diven off any caucasian who does not see private school as an alternatiove to their child's education - off to the suburbs. This has always made me just shake my head cause mostly these people are basing their education decisions based on the shine of a newly built school building, little McMansions, and freshly laid sidewalks and streets. But when you get out there - as ANK said before - its just the same slope headed dumb****s who lived down the streets from you at your last address. Its like a big shift in the middle and lower-middle socio-economic class of whiteys all looking for the newest O'Chalrey's to hang out at and get fat with. Good. go there. Get your "more square feet, less money" home. good luck selling that POS in 10 years.

Here, on the northside, I'm seeing more and more affluence moving further south towards downtown, and not one of these folks even consider public schooling as an alternative. Not one. I live less than a block from what used to be one of the BEST public (Wash Twnshp) schools, and now, its overrun with Mexican illegals and latch-key kids. :shakehead Then, the teachers leave, then the whole thing becomes a "learn englich!" and giany babysitting operation. I would live in a tent before my kids would go there. Pubvlic education has become a mjor cancer on our economy. I was told in Indy that 50% of the public eduation budget from K-12 goes to transportation. Yes, bussing. And you thought is was gone. No F'in way.

anyway, the only alternative you have is to - what a coincidence - is educate yourself and start swinging and hope to hell you can make it in your city of choice. OR, you can just move way out to BFE and hope you kid doesn;t end up the next Brittney Spears white trash GoBilly Wankster.

So, in my eyes it all comes down to the schools, as to what is/has caused this flight. Maybe its all coming back to the cities, maybe not.

Oh, and propert taxes suck. :flame:

[Ankf00]

Ecclestone said FISA wants to establish a strong F1 date in the U.S. but has had trouble finding a suitable Stateside partner. "I'm sorry to say," he philosophized, "that it seems to me the American people in general are prepared to accept a lower standard than the people in the rest of today's world. I think maybe the economy in America is in the state it's in because of this. Nobody in Japanese industry and life in general, they're long-term investors. In America they want to know what's the bottom line and when do we get paid. Unfortunately that's what's happened to America and it isn't any good any more.

Yes, the American economy suffered from a recession longer than a decade while Japan was booming :gomer:

[eiregosod]

Yes, the American economy suffered from a recession longer than a decade while Japan was booming :gomer:

The Japs went on to dominate allaspects of motorsport.

[Ankf00]

motorsport victory, or gainful employment.

tough decision :gomer:

[G.]

The #1 driver in getting people out of the city proper has beed/is schools. The influx of Mexican illegals and the sustained abundance of cheap mortgages has basically diven off any caucasian who does not see private school as an alternatiove to their child's education - off to the suburbs. This has always made me just shake my head cause mostly these people are basing their education decisions based on the shine of a newly built school building, little McMansions, and freshly laid sidewalks and streets. But when you get out there - as ANK said before - its just the same slope headed dumb****s who lived down the streets from you at your last address. Its like a big shift in the middle and lower-middle socio-economic class of whiteys all looking for the newest O'Chalrey's to hang out at and get fat with. Good. go there. Get your "more square feet, less money" home. good luck selling that POS in 10 years.
OR, you can just move way out to BFE and hope you kid doesn;t end up the next Brittney Spears white trash GoBilly Wankster.

So, in my eyes it all comes down to the schools, as to what is/has caused this flight. Maybe its all coming back to the cities, maybe not.

Oh, and property taxes suck. :flame:Hey! That's were I live!:gomer:

Nothing ever happens around here.

see here (http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=12656)

seriously, some good points. My job location puts us into BFE. We are involved with the school district heavily, and with the local political goons.

[devilmaster]

http://www.realtor.com/FindHome/HomeListing.asp?snum=1730&frm=bymap&nearbyZp=&lid=Enter+MLS+ID&ss_aywr=&st=MI&mls=xmls&mnbed=0&js=on&mnsqft=3000&fid=so&vtsort=&poe=realtor&mnprice=0&ct=detroit&zp=&primaryZp=&mxprice=99999999&typ=1&typ=2&typ=4&exft=0&exft=0&exft=0&exft=0&mnbath=0&areaid=2959&sid=0859B6200831C&pgnum=173&snumxlid=1076560183&lnksrc=00001

http://homepics.realtor.com/image8/http/southeastmichigan/listings/large/033/30443324.jpg

***REDUCED***VINTAGE CHARM ON THIS TERRIFIC INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY ON THIS STATELY MANSION FEATURING A DECK, 3 CAR DETACHED GARAGE, HARDWOOD FLOORS & WOOD TRIM THROUGHOUT, 3 FIREPLACES, UPDATED ELECTRIC, CLASSIC FOOT TUB, GLASS BLOCK BASEMENT WINDOWS, SOME REHAB STARTED ON AN EXTRA LARGE LOT IN DETROIT


Built in 1899
7 bedrooms, 2.5 baths
6900 Sq ft.
3 car garage
lot 100x170


and the price? $141,755.00

[Spicoli]

http://www.realtor.com/FindHome/HomeListing.asp?snum=1730&frm=bymap&nearbyZp=&lid=Enter+MLS+ID&ss_aywr=&st=MI&mls=xmls&mnbed=0&js=on&mnsqft=3000&fid=so&vtsort=&poe=realtor&mnprice=0&ct=detroit&zp=&primaryZp=&mxprice=99999999&typ=1&typ=2&typ=4&exft=0&exft=0&exft=0&exft=0&mnbath=0&areaid=2959&sid=0859B6200831C&pgnum=173&snumxlid=1076560183&lnksrc=00001

http://homepics.realtor.com/image8/http/southeastmichigan/listings/large/033/30443324.jpg

***REDUCED***VINTAGE CHARM ON THIS TERRIFIC INVESTMENT OPPORTUNITY ON THIS STATELY MANSION FEATURING A DECK, 3 CAR DETACHED GARAGE, HARDWOOD FLOORS & WOOD TRIM THROUGHOUT, 3 FIREPLACES, UPDATED ELECTRIC, CLASSIC FOOT TUB, GLASS BLOCK BASEMENT WINDOWS, SOME REHAB STARTED ON AN EXTRA LARGE LOT IN DETROIT


Built in 1899
7 bedrooms, 2.5 baths
6900 Sq ft.
3 car garage
lot 100x170


and the price? $141,755.00

Damn! 141k + rehab? is the thing a total s-box or is this smack dab in teh ghetto? :saywhat:

[devilmaster]

Damn! 141k + rehab? is the thing a total s-box or is this smack dab in teh ghetto? :saywhat:

i believe ghetto

[eiregosod]

$140k ???, I'll take 6.

[Spicoli]

$140k ???, I'll take 6.


but how you gonna get them home? :D

[Sean O'Gorman]

oops, wrong post