View Full Version : Let's talk about the race...
Insomniac
04-08-07, 07:51 PM
New DP01. Some interesting issues.
-- Fueling. How was that problem not found during the first open test? Did no one think to do a full fill?
-- Onboard starters. I wondered throughout the race why they weren't used. They did mention later they don't work when the engine is hot. Anyone know why? And again, how was that not found during the first open test?
I think the issues aside, it seemed pretty racy.
The start. Same old story, half the field no where to be seen. I'll never understand why they can't get close together earlier and be tighter by the start. Maybe some day.
Doornbos, P2, pretty good day for him.
Gommedy finished the race. :)
Rahal was quick to say Clarke put him in the wall. Didn't look like it to me. Given the choice between running into the wall and holding your ground, you may want to choose holding your ground.
Of course Clarke stuffs it. Better than Phillipe? I still don't think he is.
Will Figge be the next Phillipe?
Katherine Legge drove a quiet clean race.
Bruno had a good race.
PT finished the race, that's always good. ;) I hope a good start to the season = less brain fades. Who am I kidding.
Will Power owned that track.
Tough break for Wilson. I'm thinking Doornbos driving into his rear messed up his gearbox.
Tags had a good race.
Why all the tire punctures for Bourdais?
What happened to Dominguez?
No penalty for hitting a crew member? Only if you hurt them? That would encourage hiding injuries.
Bridgestone estimated the course would be 20 MPH slower, that's way off. I also wish the reds would have more grip but wear completely out before the fuel load is used.
I hope the fueling issues were the reason the field was so spaced out and they fix that in time for Long Beach. (or is it Las Vegas again? ;))
Is the timed race confusing at the track? It certainly seems smarter to have it timed from the get go for TV. The race was only 166 miles long.
good stuff:
the track. got some passing zones & high-speed zones in front of the main grandstand. the event looked well-attended.
the driving. a few sweet passes, other than speedy dan going into the tires, i didn't see any unforced errors. (btw i'm not clear what happened on lap 1 with rahal)
weak stuff:
DP01 reliability. mechanical failures took out justin, jani & pagenault. daziel, bruno & dominguez had their races ruined by either fueling(?) or gearbox failures. :shakehead sebastien's 3 flat tires seemed suspicious.
the on-board starter... apparently doesn't work on a hot engine. :shakehead
too many mechanical DNF's/unscheduled pitstops + small grid size = second half of race becomes a snoozer.
but i'm sure that Panoz and ChampCar will have a solution to the DP01's reliability by the time the transporters roll into Long Beach :rolleyes:
Brian_R
04-08-07, 11:16 PM
Seb was the only guy to cut tires during the race, and with the suspension finally giving way on the only tire not to have punctured, finished the round robin (and his race). I think Justin Wilson's gearbox problems stemmed from the fact his gearbox got rammed early in the race and threw it off enough to cause a failure there. No real mention of the other mechanical dnfs during the race except for Pags. The fuel problems turned what could have been an amazing finish into a cruise for Will Power. That break in May (to fix any issues they can't fix this week) doesn't look so bad after all.
Insomniac
04-08-07, 11:24 PM
good stuff:
the track. got some passing zones & high-speed zones in front of the main grandstand. the event looked well-attended.
the driving. a few sweet passes, other than speedy dan going into the tires, i didn't see any unforced errors. (btw i'm not clear what happened on lap 1 with rahal)
weak stuff:
DP01 reliability. mechanical failures took out justin, jani & pagenault. daziel, bruno & dominguez had their races ruined by either fueling(?) or gearbox failures. :shakehead sebastien's 3 flat tires seemed suspicious.
the on-board starter... apparently doesn't work on a hot engine. :shakehead
too many mechanical DNF's/unscheduled pitstops + small grid size = second half of race becomes a snoozer.
but i'm sure that Panoz and ChampCar will have a solution to the DP01's reliability by the time the transporters roll into Long Beach :rolleyes:
I don't like the fueling issue, but I may be in the minority here, but some unpredictability (reliability) is a good thing. It adds some intrigue to the race. Even today, I wasn't sure if Power would cross the finish line.
Pagnaud's problem was ECU/Cosworth related, not DP01 related.
If everyone has about the same fueling issues, it is the same challenge for everyone.
Those who can engineer their way out of the jam will get an edge.
Apparently, the new fueling rigs weren't sent to the teams until Wednesday - that would explain the problems they're seeing now.
Glitches aside, I'd say the DP01 passed the most important test with flying colors - the cars seemed generally able to run closer together. :thumbup: Everything else can be worked out.
You forgot the most important fact. They actually showed PASSES ON THE TRACK!
chop456
04-09-07, 01:13 AM
Seb was the only guy to cut tires during the race
He's also the only one running traction control,,,,,,,,
Coincidence? :tony:
I was chatting with a family from Jolly Ol England in the stands, who just happened to be in Vegas. I was 'splainin' the differences between F1 and CC, when Power passed PT for the lead in front of us.
the crowd roared, even though they were PT/LV fans.
[mr obvious]
Oh yeah. We have overtaking for the lead here, too.
[\mr obvious]
The only 2 teams that brought both cars home were DCR and PCM.
Hesketh
04-09-07, 05:59 AM
Apparently, the new fueling rigs weren't sent to the teams until Wednesday - that would explain the problems they're seeing now.
They were really scrambling to get them done in time to send to Vegas; we weren't sure they would all arrive in time!
Other than it taking 25 minutes, once again, to get the first racing lap done, things went pretty well. Teething problems are to be expected, but nothing went wrong that can't be fixed, and the race featured real live passing. Congrats to Team Australia.
Although I am concerned about the lack of talent and depth, I think Champ Car did well to get the show on the road. Let's hope they can build on it.
Warlock!
04-09-07, 07:59 AM
I'd say the DP01 passed the most important test with flying colors - the cars seemed generally able to run closer together.
That was the biggest surprise I saw all weekend as well. The fact that Power could duck left and right behind Tracy, right under his wing, in the middle of a 180+ MPH left-hand sweeper speaks volumes.
However, since I wasn't actually there and I was only able to experience the race itself (not the hospitality, parties, or Vegas), that was the only positive thought I have in my mind after watching.
Boatdesigner
04-09-07, 09:06 AM
Once they get the bugs out of the car, I think it'll be good. Too bad there weren't 20 cars to fill up the track a little better in the late stages. As for the race, it was way more exciting than that F1 snoozefest from the far east. Imagine, a pass for the lead on the track!
I liked the track and was surprised no one wrecked (other than the early rear ender) on that chicane just before pit in. I am also glad no one got sideways into that bridge piling at pit in. That must look really scary at the speeds they are traveling.:eek:
Anyone catch PT talking smack in pre-race about his team finding a failed part but they were not willing to share with the others? Was the failed part the reason for the high attrition?
Spicoli
04-09-07, 11:33 AM
Anyone catch PT talking smack in pre-race about his team finding a failed part but they were not willing to share with the others? Was the failed part the reason for the high attrition?
More than 1 team knew about the fuel cells, but mebbee PT didn;t know that. The fuel cell issues were the worst kept secret alkl week. The batteries for the onboards weren;t big wnough to get them started out of anything but 1st gear.
You think Pt was throwing nails under French Fry's car?:laugh:
Naaaah, i thought he was referring to a suspension part or something. Heck, NHL was their own worst enemy or PT's got great aim wiff them nailz.
Insomniac
04-09-07, 12:19 PM
Anyone catch PT talking smack in pre-race about his team finding a failed part but they were not willing to share with the others? Was the failed part the reason for the high attrition?
I don't think whetever that part was the issue. Fueling issues aside, it seemed like the problems varied for the people who didn't finish.
Racing Truth
04-09-07, 01:23 PM
Glitches aside, I'd say the DP01 passed the most important test with flying colors - the cars seemed generally able to run closer together. :thumbup: Everything else can be worked out.
Agreed, and I was pleasantly surprised by the racy nature of the cars.:thumbup: From that POV (the most relevant), it went well.
Fueling, OTOH,....:shakehead . Oh, and Figge was a disaster yesterday.
[Dennis Green mode]
And Dan Clarke was WHO I THOUGHT HE WAS! If you want to crown him, then crown his a$$!
[Dennis Green mode]
:D
PS: The first 10 laps were an abortion. Got much better, on track, after that.
Wheel-Nut
04-09-07, 02:05 PM
I like Vegas!!
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2007/By800/20070407P_0091.jpg
Hard Driver
04-09-07, 02:50 PM
Amateur hour.
So the fuleing didn't work.. That is a VERY big F up. Who was the brainchild who only delivered the rigs last week. That alone made the race look like a joke. The telemetry they put on the screen that didn't work.. worse than not having it. Sorry, but a Mazda 6 is not a proper pace car.. at least get a RX-8. Looked like the field was being paced by a rental car.
Track was good. Although that chicane should have curbing deliniating the whole thing, not little apex's only.
I really like champ car, so I feel bad for the series. But the whole thing is looking pretty bad. The lack of real sponsors makes it look pretty hooky too. The what safety crew. At least people knew simple green. The engines are no longer Ford. I think loosing Ford was a big mistake. The what rookie of the year, roush brands or something. And the 3 race team.. WTF.
I really hate to say this, but the truth hurts. I saw a few laps of St. Pete and the IRL race looked worlds more professional. I know the fueling, while cheesy, can at least be chalked up to teething with the new car (Although I would hope something so basic would not be a glaring fault like that), but the rest of it goes beyond problems with the new car.
Hopefully Long Beach is vastly more improved. Because isn't that our premier race?
Hopefully Long Beach is vastly more improved. Because isn't that our premier race?
Let's hope they're going directly to LB from Vegas...or somewhere to test in between. We expected problems but fueling rigs/manifold NEVER entered anyone's mind. That's an embarassment.
robot9000
04-09-07, 03:34 PM
Amateur hour.
So the fuleing didn't work.. That is a VERY big F up. Who was the brainchild who only delivered the rigs last week. That alone made the race look like a joke. The telemetry they put on the screen that didn't work.. worse than not having it. Sorry, but a Mazda 6 is not a proper pace car.. at least get a RX-8. Looked like the field was being paced by a rental car.
Track was good. Although that chicane should have curbing deliniating the whole thing, not little apex's only.
I really like champ car, so I feel bad for the series. But the whole thing is looking pretty bad. The lack of real sponsors makes it look pretty hooky too. The what safety crew. At least people knew simple green. The engines are no longer Ford. I think loosing Ford was a big mistake. The what rookie of the year, roush brands or something. And the 3 race team.. WTF.
I really hate to say this, but the truth hurts. I saw a few laps of St. Pete and the IRL race looked worlds more professional. I know the fueling, while cheesy, can at least be chalked up to teething with the new car (Although I would hope something so basic would not be a glaring fault like that), but the rest of it goes beyond problems with the new car.
Hopefully Long Beach is vastly more improved. Because isn't that our premier race?
TV sucked - yep
Fueling problem was great IMHO. Some teams had it figured out, some didn't.
Go drive a Mazdaspeed 3 (or 6 for that matter) and get back to me on Mazda 'Proper pacecar" thing. :wink:
Ford on the engine? Eveybody knows them as cosworths for ever. Nobody called them Fords. Not sure that is worth noting...
Rookie of the year and safety team branding is no big deal. Who pays attention to that stuff anyway? Besides, they didn't even have a sponsor for the safety team the last 3 years.
I think the cars looked pretty good sponser wise. I think the teams need to learn how to pick colors better. The car doesn't seem to lend itself to side of the sidepod stuff. Seems the top of the sidepods is a better place for a logo.
The rear wings seemed to show logos much better than the last one.
rosawendel
04-09-07, 03:52 PM
if the races are all going to be timed, have the time on the screen from the green flag, not with less than 10 minutes to go.
Hard Driver
04-09-07, 04:22 PM
I don't think the fueling was a team thing when the broadcast said they were overnighting new parts. What did Forsythe do wrong to screw Tracys race, they put in the fuel nozzle, it just didn't flow. That is poor design, not the fuelers fault. And this seemed to happened for every team. I like "variables" so that it is not an F1 procession. but the variables should be driver skill and such, not random fuel problems.
Sure a Mazdaspeed 3 or 6 are nice cars. I like the AWD trubo thing (having owned a Talon AWD and now an Audi S4). But the pace care still should exude performance, and while mazdaspeeds are sporty, they are "understated", I would rather have an RX-8 that looks fast.
Boatdesigner
04-09-07, 04:36 PM
I am hoping it gets better as I get used to the new paint schemes, but too many of the cars looked alike on the screen. Too many blacks/dark blues.
oddlycalm
04-09-07, 04:56 PM
The fact that Power could duck left and right behind Tracy, right under his wing, in the middle of a 180+ MPH left-hand sweeper speaks volumes. Agreed, primary goal of the new car was accomplished. The teething problems (fueling) should be easily dealt with. The LV track showed (again) that a street circuit can actually result in a good race.
Considering the amount of time and trouble that these guys have invested in the new car, new events, buying Cosworth, buying the Long Beach GP, etc., I am left wondering why that they gave so little thought to who would be driving the cars.
oc
robot9000
04-09-07, 06:25 PM
On the fuel cell problem - they got new parts and some teams seemed to get them to work consistently. Some didn't. The fact that some teams got them to work shows me that they did a better job. Or at least that they prioritized what to work on better.
Pace car - bleh. Who cares. BTW, the Mazdaspeed 3 is a FF, not AWD.
if the races are all going to be timed, have the time on the screen from the green flag, not with less than 10 minutes to go.
:thumbup: Agree with that! Do the split lap/time thing they had at the end for the entire race.
Pace car - bleh. Who cares. BTW, the Mazdaspeed 3 is a FF, not AWD.FF? Fast Forward? :)
Andrew Longman
04-10-07, 07:23 AM
Considering the amount of time and trouble that these guys have invested in the new car, new events, buying Cosworth, buying the Long Beach GP, etc., I am left wondering why that they gave so little thought to who would be driving the cars.
oc
Not that KK, et al, shouldn't have been concerned about it, but the drivers is the responsibility of the team owners, not the series. The list you gave is infrastructure that the series owner needs to supply to attract teams and drivers. I think with that in place, the drivers will stablize some. At least it wouldn't possibly stablize without that infrastructure in place.
Hard Driver
Thanks for your honest opinion. I share many of the same thoughts.
Mazda 6, yeah, that's an econobox and schmo can rent for eighty bucks
ChampcarShark
04-10-07, 10:57 AM
I did not cared for the pace car. Great race overall.
I am sure the fueling problem will be solved by LB. Good TV coverage xcept for the telemetry, hope they get it right next time.
I am glad to have Champcar back on network TV.
Got to see about 30 seconds on the local 6 o'clock news. :sigh:
Maybe if Power keeps winning one of the local networks will pick it up. Aussies love a winner and Power is doing better than Webber is in F1.
Speaking of F1, the 6 o'clock news had F1s before the Champcar story, the DP1 looks way better than the F1 cars. :thumbup: to Panoz.
JohnHKart
04-10-07, 09:06 PM
I enjoyed it, thought the track was awesome, great place to race. The coverage was confusing when it kept going to commercial and never saying lap 40 of 80 or whatever. Since I skip some of the beggining and cautions I didn't know it was timed and they never mentioned anything about timed until the last 20 minutes or so. The field banner keeps flowing, even when they are showing the onboard footage, which takes up half the screen! What's the point of showing onboard footage when you can't see down the track? Other races don't do that. That was a shame. I love the new cars, can't wait for Friday, I skipped last year at Long Beach to go party in Mexico (not at the race) so this will be fun.
JH
Hard Driver
Thanks for your honest opinion. I share many of the same thoughts.
Mazda 6, yeah, that's an econobox and schmo can rent for eighty bucks
Schmos get a lot of zoom zoom for their eighty bucks. :D
Jayblues
04-11-07, 01:00 AM
On the fuel cell problem - they got new parts and some teams seemed to get them to work consistently. Some didn't. The fact that some teams got them to work shows me that they did a better job. Or at least that they prioritized what to work on better.
Pace car - bleh. Who cares. BTW, the Mazdaspeed 3 is a FF, not AWD.
i agree on the fuel. the #5 car had an engineer go and assist somehow with the final fueling to make sure it all went in - something about hitting it hard so it all went in. they still took a few minutes after the refuel to calculate that it all did go in. obviously it did because they made the end of the race without another stop (it was close). So they were either smarter or luckier than others.
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