View Full Version : Virginia Tech Shooting
Holy schlitz, CNN just bumped up the count from 1 dead to 20. :saywhat: :mad:
@ least 20 killed?!? Damn!
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/16/vtech.shooting/index.html
:eek: :( :cry:
-Kevin
AP is now reporting 22 were killed, and dozens injured.
Richard/Missy, can we merge threads into KLang's?
-Kevin
CNN now saying 21 dead and 21 injured. :(
I wonder what this nutjobs story will be. :yuck:
The suspect used 2 9mm handguns to pull this off. Apparently he had the victims lined up execution style. I just can't get my mind around a single person could pull this off...shooting ~50 people in a couple of hours.
ABC reports the # of dead is up to 29 now. Jeebus.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574
-Kevin
extramundane
04-16-07, 01:18 PM
Local news has 22 dead, 28+ injured. High winds from that storm system have grounded all helicopter flights, so they couldn't chopper anyone out.
Utter craziness. Funny, I haven't set foot on campus in over 7 years, but it hit me in the gut as if I was still there.
Jesus...local media is already pimping this as "The Worst School Shooting in US History!" Have some decency, jackasses.
Damn. :( Apparently it was 2 separate attacks, about 2 hours apart.
Jesus...local media is already pimping this as "The Worst School Shooting in US History!" Have some decency, jackasses.
NBC has already claimed that several times. Worse than the sniper in Austin back in '66.
-Kevin
Some reports now saying 32 dead. :(
How does one person do that with handguns? :shakehead
Govt official just announced 31.... wow.... Sad... :(
FCYTravis
04-16-07, 02:30 PM
Oh my God. :( :saywhat: :cry:
oddlycalm
04-16-07, 02:53 PM
How does one person do that with handguns? :shakehead By blocking off all exits with materials at hand (locked bike chains?), decent aim and two spare magazines in a building where everyone else is unarmed. In other words, anyone with a will to actually to it. :(
oc
Racing Truth
04-16-07, 02:55 PM
:( :( :( Prayers to the victims, their families, and the VT community.
coolhand
04-16-07, 03:43 PM
The suspect used 2 9mm handguns to pull this off. Apparently he had the victims lined up execution style. I just can't get my mind around a single person could pull this off...shooting ~50 people in a couple of hours.
ABC reports the # of dead is up to 29 now. Jeebus.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574
-Kevin
with handguns he must have had people cornered in their classrooms
How does one person do that with handguns? :shakehead
Practise. I'll be surprised if the shooter didn't spend a lot of time at the range. If you know what you are doing you can reload in a second or two, but he had more than a couple of clips. 10 clips=90 rounds. Could be a little more, depending on the model. If he had one of those student back packs, he could've carried a lot more than 10 clips and probably could've hidden more than 10 clips in a winter coat.
A big university class can have a couple hundred students.
with handguns he must have had people cornered in their classrooms
Lets all rush him, he can't kill use all makes sense, but is kind of hard to organize when all you were expecting to do is take notes.
coolhand
04-16-07, 04:08 PM
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9604940
“What happened today this was ridiculous,” student Jason Piatt told CNN. He said the first warning from the university of a shooting on campus came in an e-mail about two hours after the first deadly burst of gunfire. “While they’re sending out that e-mail, 22 more people got killed,” Piatt said.
coolhand
04-16-07, 04:09 PM
Lets all rush him, he can't kill use all makes sense, but is kind of hard to organize when all you were expecting to do is take notes.
In that Minnesota school shooting a few years back one kid did that and lost his fingers but stopped the shooter.
oddlycalm
04-16-07, 04:19 PM
10 clips=90 rounds. Could be a little more, depending on the model. Or a lot more since the law that restricted magazine capacity was quietly allowed to expire recently. Most 9mm semi-autos have 15-16 round capacity. If reports that he had two 9mm semi-autos all he would need is a couple spare magazines in his pockets, something easily concealed in a jacket.
It doesn't take a backpack full of ammunition, what it takes is blocking the exits effectively. After that it's over unless people are willing to sacrifice themselves in a group effort to overwhelm the shooter. No skill required to execute unarmed people that are standing still. :( :shakehead
oc
coolhand
04-16-07, 04:24 PM
yeah, I don't think you have to be an expert shooter to do this
Insomniac
04-16-07, 04:32 PM
From an interview, the guy walked into a classroom and opened fire. Didn't say a word and the students went for the ground. While down there, the shooter started shooting at them. One person said he thought about going at the shooter, but there were desks between them and the shooter just left the classroom for another. Then he and a couple other students barracaded the door with their feet and the guy returned but couldn't open the door and started shooting through the door.
I personally did wonder why they "didn't fight back", but after thinking about it, that mentality comes from 9/11, and those people had quite a bit of time to think about it, plan and try that. They at first complied with the hijackers. A guy walks into a classroom with a gun and starts shooting for less than a minute, you aren't planning how to stop him immediately. It would be a solo act, and I'm not sure how many people like the odds of one-on-one when the other guy has a gun and you're starting out a ways from him.
Also, it's hard to say that the shooting at the dorm would lead one to conclude this was going to happen. I'm sure murder's on campus aren't typical, but it's a pretty big leap from a murder to a massacre. Hindisght is 20/20 on that e-mail, and what if anything it could've done if sent earlier.
coolhand
04-16-07, 04:36 PM
You never know what you would do until it happens and then it is too late. I walk away from a lot of things wondering why I did not act differently. These probably happened too fast to react :(
Not that it matters, but I'm betting he was a good shot because so many people died. Also, pyschologically, these kinds of people tend to fantasize and practise what they want to do over and over again. They may even video tape themselves practising. It takes some practice to reload quickly, but not a ton. He certainly could've used a big mag, but wouldn't need one. Standing in the front of a class and shooting people while they ran out the back would work: no blocked doors. Especially if he shot any one who tried to move towards him. I've been in unversity classes where there were a couple hundred people: two doors at the front, one at the back. It would've taken a long time for everyone to run out the back.
If he was a student, he'd have days and days to think about it. He could easily pick the time and classroom where there would be lots of people, and limited exits. Sounds like the police weren't too quick, so he'd have go after anyone who hid.
But, yeah, pretty much anyone could bring a couple hundred 9 mm rounds into a school. No special skills required. Just a little planning and of course a desire to do it. About the only way to stop it is to realize that a formerly normal person is becoming obsessed with revenge and buying a lot of ammo. Then you need to tell some one. A high school teacher or principal would work, but it's a little harder to figure out who to tell at university.
nissan gtp
04-16-07, 05:00 PM
up to 33 now
I'm gonna refrain from saying what I think :flame:
extramundane
04-16-07, 05:04 PM
Not that it matters, but I'm betting he was a good shot because so many people died. Also, pyschologically, these kinds of people tend to fantasize and practise what they want to do over and over again. They may even video tape themselves practising. It takes some practice to reload quickly, but not a ton. He certainly could've used a big mag, but wouldn't need one. Standing in the front of a class and shooting people while they ran out the back would work: no blocked doors. Especially if he shot any one who tried to move towards him. I've been in unversity classes where there were a couple hundred people: two doors at the front, one at the back. It would've taken a long time for everyone to run out the back.
Unless that building has changed in the 9 years since I was a student, most of the classrooms are more traditional, with one or two doors both at the front of the room. There are (or were) a couple of lecture hall-type rooms, but I don't think there were any that seated more than a hundred or so. Granted, this building was older when I was there and may have been renovated since.
Spicoli
04-16-07, 05:24 PM
:( thoughts and prayers. sad is not even the right word. :(
Spicoli
04-16-07, 06:35 PM
****. nbc saying it was a boyfriend / gf thing that went nuts. 60 shot? :shakehead
TorontoWorker
04-16-07, 08:40 PM
I'm willing to bet that there was a threat made before this - either to the girlfriend or others. Sadly many times people brush off these threats as just hot air. I think after today we will see people taking much more notice of what these narcissistic self-centred people threaten.
I don't think it helps in this situation that you have a President who's first statement out of his mouth - is a political statement affirming the right to bear arms... "A White House spokesman said that President George W. Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia. “The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said."
I don't think I would have mentioned a constitutional issue so soon after what this gutless individual did.
Sean Malone
04-16-07, 09:29 PM
I'm willing to bet that there was a threat made before this - either to the girlfriend or others. Sadly many times people brush off these threats as just hot air. I think after today we will see people taking much more notice of what these narcissistic self-centred people threaten.
I don't think it helps in this situation that you have a President who's first statement out of his mouth - is a political statement affirming the right to bear arms... "A White House spokesman said that President George W. Bush was horrified by the rampage and offered his prayers to the victims and the people of Virginia. “The president believes that there is a right for people to bear arms, but that all laws must be followed,” spokeswoman Dana Perino said."
I don't think I would have mentioned a constitutional issue so soon after what this gutless individual did.
I watched that press address from Perino today, her statement was in response to a question by a reporter.
I watched that press address from Perino today, her statement was in response to a question by a reporter.
Yes. The reporter raised the political issue. She just responded to it.
coolhand
04-16-07, 10:34 PM
It sounds like a BF/GF thing and the Residential adviser came to settle things, he shot them and then must of flipped out and went to the classrooms.
Maybe this will change the way future classrooms are designed
[edit] it is the media raising all the gun rights stuff right now
Also sounds like the guy was from China and had been here since August on a student visa.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/343354,vatech041607.articleprint
coolhand
04-16-07, 11:11 PM
edit
there is photos and facebook stuff going around of people saying it is the guy
edit
there is photos and facebook stuff going around of people saying it is the guy
http://utoledo.facebook.com/s.php?q=chiang&n=16777279&k=40000010
(Dunno if the link will work) But this is NOT the shooter. Here (http://wanusmaximus.livejournal.com/?REFER=xanga_redirect) is his blog.
He posted this pic yesterday. Talk about unfortunate timing.
http://photos-815.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v71/150/2/6202368/n6202368_33598815_8592.jpg
coolhand
04-16-07, 11:33 PM
yeah i was going to post that but people thought it was incorrect.
anyway those are a lot of Mosin Nagant M44s
By the way, contrary to what the media is telling you, this is NOT the biggest school massacre in U.S. history. More than 40 people died when a "demented farmer" blew up the Bath Consolidated School in Bath, Mich., near Lansing.
http://www.boulderclassifieds.com/shooting/4251927.html
coolhand
04-17-07, 12:39 AM
He used a Glock 19 and Walther P-22
Serial Numbers were shaved off, I am pretty sure a student Visa person can purchase weapons.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/16/AR2007041600533.html?hpid=topnews
devilmaster
04-17-07, 12:59 AM
one of the local sports websites I never joined but lurked at once in a blue moon is motownsports.com
One of their regular posters goes by the name of estrepe1.... As you can already guess, Brian was one of the victims today.
I don't claim to know him, but i'd read a few of his posts and he was a knowledgable and diehard tiger fan.
RIP Brian Bluhm.
http://www.motownsports.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47773
http://a72.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/24/l_2ec6c898727e34225175023dac05801f.jpg
By the way, contrary to what the media is telling you, this is NOT the biggest school massacre in U.S. history. More than 40 people died when a "demented farmer" blew up the Bath Consolidated School in Bath, Mich., near Lansing.
http://www.boulderclassifieds.com/shooting/4251927.html
The media reports I've heard are referring to this as the largest shooting incident in US history, which differentiates it from the Bath tragedy.
It appears that there may be two shooters and two separate incidents:
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3048110&page=1
If true, what an amazing coincidence! :saywhat:
-Kevin
They just announced a ballistics match between the two shooting sites. Likely one shooter but they don't have evidence to support that conclusion yet.
Boy the press is sure after the school administation over the timing issue. Given what I've heard so far I don't think they did anything wrong. But I do think every school in the country will be changing their procedures going forward. A simple firecracker set off on any college campus will lead to a lock-down and a visit by the SWAT team.
Turns out that one of the victims, 77-year-old professor Liviu Libresc, was a Holocaust survivor. http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=12360
:(
extramundane
04-17-07, 10:19 AM
Gunman named- South Korean senior, permanent legal resident. Had a receipt for purchase of the Glock in his backpack.
chop456
04-17-07, 10:54 AM
Color me unimpressed with the police response, both during and after.
Color me unimpressed with the police response, both during and after.I understand the need to have "situational awareness" and to really understand wtf is going on in a hostage situation, not to run into the place with sixguns drawn, etc., but 60-ish people SHOT?!? That takes a long time.
The video where you hear pop-pop-pop and the cops are basically setting a perimeter kinda burns me.
Someone needed to be the cowboy yesterday.
Also, knowing what little has been leaked out so far, I can't really blame the school, although I reserve the right to change my mind and prosecute them on the internet at a future time.
coolhand
04-17-07, 11:12 AM
In their defense when you usually hear about a shooting you would normally think it is one kill and the then the killler would run. not this.
Insomniac
04-17-07, 12:08 PM
In their defense when you usually hear about a shooting you would normally think it is one kill and the then the killler would run. not this.
Some of my friends and I were discussing this. Say the e-mail was sent out an hour earlier, it wouldn't say much more than two students were shot (the students wouldn't have been named) at West Ambler Johnston Hall. And as they said, they believed the shooter fled, so they may've included that information.
We wouldn't have left class because of that e-mail.
Also, unless there was a specific target at the engineering building (assumig that is why he would've gone there), he could've also shot people in his dorm or elsewhere if they had decided to shut down the campus. No one even knew who did it or what he had planned next.
Color me unimpressed with the police response, both during and after.
Frankly, campus police are not equipped for this sort of thing. It's like calling Barney Fife in on a hostage situation. :\ I was also not impressed with either the prez or the chief during the press conferences yesterday or today. They looked like two deer in the headlights. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Racing Truth
04-17-07, 01:07 PM
Frankly, campus police are not equipped for this sort of thing. It's calling Barney Fife in on a hostage situation. :\ I was also not impressed with eityher the prez or the chief during the press conferences yesterday or today. They looked like two deer in the headlights. :saywhat:
-Kevin
Thank you. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that. The chief, in particular, looked lost, Barney Fife-esque.
Now comes word that Phelps and his Westboro wackos are going to protest at the funerals of the victims. :flame:
Dr. Corkski
04-17-07, 01:55 PM
They didn't seem have a problem locking down the campus and cancelling classes in 2006 when there was a gunman on the loose. Whether that would have changed anything positively is another matter.
coolhand
04-17-07, 02:16 PM
Some of my friends and I were discussing this. Say the e-mail was sent out an hour earlier, it wouldn't say much more than two students were shot (the students wouldn't have been named) at West Ambler Johnston Hall. And as they said, they believed the shooter fled, so they may've included that information.
We wouldn't have left class because of that e-mail.
Also, unless there was a specific target at the engineering building (assumig that is why he would've gone there), he could've also shot people in his dorm or elsewhere if they had decided to shut down the campus. No one even knew who did it or what he had planned next.
We get crime e-mails at school about someone robbing a student, it happens and you don't think OMG Is he coming this way to rob us. It usually wont turn into this.
Turns out that one of the victims, 77-year-old professor Liviu Libresc, was a Holocaust survivor. http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=12360
:(
Looks like he saved the kids in his class, tho:
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8OIFQKG0&show_article=1
:thumbup: :thumbup: :cool:
-Kevin
We get crime e-mails at school about someone robbing a student,
there's that and the fact that USC sends out at least 10 of those a day.
but a major state school is a small city, there's no red button to push that'll drop 6 inch steel barriers from every doorway instantly locking in 25000+ people, like in Dr. No's lair.
Insomniac
04-17-07, 02:35 PM
They didn't seem have a problem locking down the campus and cancelling classes in 2006 when there was a gunman on the loose. Whether that would have changed anything positively is another matter.
Escaped convict on the loose vs. a shooting? It seems more like the equivalent of a town of 30k shutting down whenever there is a shooting until someone is caught.
Dr. Corkski
04-17-07, 02:46 PM
Escaped convict on the loose vs. a shooting? It seems more like the equivalent of a town of 30k shutting down whenever there is a shooting until someone is caught.That's like saying airlines should let people bring banned items on board as long as they don't fit the profile of a terrorist.
They need to explain how, with limited information, that they were able determine with enough certainty that one type of armed killer on the run was more dangerous than the other to make the different decisions they did.
Insomniac
04-17-07, 02:56 PM
That's like saying airlines should let people bring banned items on board as long as they don't fit the profile of a terrorist.
They need to explain how, with limited information, that they were able determine with enough certainty that one type of armed killer on the run was more dangerous than the other to make the different decisions they did.
Yes, this is exactly the same thing as racial profiling a terrorist? :rolleyes:
How many towns across this country lock down the entire town after there is a murder and the murderer isn't caught? How many towns break into radio/TV to warn their residents that there is an escaped convict running around who just killed someone?
Point to one situation where a town had 2 shootings on their hand and shut it down immediately afterwards.
I'd be surprised if there was a jail break and residents weren't warned about it pretty fast and asked to stay indoors.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of murders, and a minute percentage turn into a killing spree.
Fortunately, there are not many jail breaks, and many of those result in more crimes.
This same decision is made all over the country every day.
The video where you hear pop-pop-pop and the cops are basically setting a perimeter kinda burns me.
Someone needed to be the cowboy yesterday.
Yeah, but cops aren't the Marines, who train to close with and destroy the enemy. Their role is more containment, sorta like firefighters' main job is to stop a fire from spreading, rather than just saving your house.
My guess is all university buildings will install metal detectors/xray machines staffed by armed guards, like we see at most government buildings.
Dr. Corkski
04-17-07, 03:45 PM
Well now they have to shut down the whole town for more than just a day, don't they?
You can't just assume a killer isn't going to kill again especially when you have limited information available. Especially when there are 20+ thousand lives at stake.
In the end it still won't bring anyone back.
how do you propose a police force serving a town the size of Blacksburg shut down a 25000+ student campus at the drop of a hat in the middle of a normal school day?
Dr. Corkski
04-17-07, 04:49 PM
how do you propose a police force serving a town the size of Blacksburg shut down a 25000+ student campus at the drop of a hat in the middle of a normal school day?They did it on the first day of classes where they were probably more people on or to be on campus.
Andrew Longman
04-17-07, 04:59 PM
Gunman named- South Korean senior, permanent legal resident. Had a receipt for purchase of the Glock in his backpack.
Heard that too. Also heard that the Serial # was filed off. Where do you buy a gun without a serial number and get a receipt? Or why do you file off the number but keep the reciept with the gun? :confused:
Separate issue on the lock down or not to lock down, it seems as simple as they read the initial shooting completely wrong as a domestic dispute and only sent the email out to inform folks of the crime.
If they thought there was a madman on the loose, I think they would have shut everything down. Half my county was shut down last week (kids kept in school, people told to stay inside) when a bank robbery was botched, an FBI agent was shot, and one of the robbers was on the loose.
cameraman
04-17-07, 06:06 PM
They didn't seem have a problem locking down the campus and cancelling classes in 2006 when there was a gunman on the loose. Whether that would have changed anything positively is another matter.
You have no idea what you are talking about. The manhunt last year started on the day before the school was shut down. They had an army of fully mobilized police in the area when they decided that they need to close the school.
In capturing Morva, police credited the huge armed presence that descended on the area. More than 24 agencies, including officers from the FBI, the Drug Enforcement Administration, Virginia State Police and neighboring police departments, blanketed the campus and its surroundings.
Kurt J. Krause, vice president for business affairs at Virginia Tech, said the cordon of heavily armed officers was designed to keep Morva from escaping, and he said he ordered students and others to stay inside to keep them away from Morva.
That is what it takes to shut down a major university.
Yesterday morning they had a murder in one of the dorms - no police force anywhere would have expected it to be anything more than an isolated incident. There are about 17,000 murders a year in the US. You planning on shutting down cities 45 times a day, every day?
Dr. Corkski
04-17-07, 06:44 PM
The campus is an especially densely populated area. Great idea to have people come in as usual and pack many of them into a small space when you possibly have an armed killer that just offed two people in broad daylight. This has more to do with bad administrative decisions than bad police work.
FCYTravis
04-17-07, 07:28 PM
Yeah, but cops aren't the Marines, who train to close with and destroy the enemy. Their role is more containment, sorta like firefighters' main job is to stop a fire from spreading, rather than just saving your house.
It's interesting that you mention that. Allegedly, that's not police protocol anymore, at least not in California.
I did an article for tomorrow's issue of our college paper on the impacts this shooting might have on college safety and security, and one of the things all the college police chiefs I talked to said is that Columbine changed everything.
Previously, cops were taught to just secure a perimeter and wait for SWAT, like you said. But now, there's an "active shooter" protocol which applies in cases like VT or Columbine, where there's someone not just taking hostages, but shooting to kill.
The "active shooter" scenario emphasizes ways in which two-man teams of ordinary street cops can go in and respond to situations like these, and take down or take out the shooter as quickly as possible, to save as many innocent lives as possible. Our college district's police force just went through training for this sort of response.
Perhaps this protocol isn't common practice in Virginia, though? :(
coolhand
04-17-07, 07:45 PM
http://newsbloggers.aol.com/2007/04/17/cho-seung-huis-plays/
When we read Cho's plays, it was like something out of a nightmare. The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of. Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter. I was even thinking of scenarios of what I would do in case he did come in with a gun, I was that freaked out about him. When the students gave reviews of his play in class, we were very careful with our words in case he decided to snap. Even the professor didn't pressure him to give closing comments.
extramundane
04-17-07, 08:40 PM
Heard that too. Also heard that the Serial # was filed off. Where do you buy a gun without a serial number and get a receipt?
He bought it from this place (http://www.roanokefirearms.com/), which is in my hometown, about 50 miles north of B'burg. Most of the gun shops in town are places you can get anything if you ask nicely enough.
He bought it from this place (http://www.roanokefirearms.com/), which is in my hometown, about 50 miles north of B'burg. Most of the gun shops in town are places you can get anything if you ask nicely enough.
that's ironic considering the VA gun shop owners' campaign to spite Michael Bloomberg...
extramundane
04-17-07, 10:03 PM
that's ironic considering the VA gun shop owners' campaign to spite Michael Bloomberg...
Virginia gun politics is always a bumpy ride. I'm not going there right now, but suffice it to say that the gun shop owners targeted in Bloomberg's suit were probably more upset at being sued by a big city Yankee than by the lawsuit itself.
Just found out tonight that the brother of an acquaintance is one of the dead. They had a feeling when nobody could find him last night, but didn't know for sure 'til this morning. Gutted doesn't even begin to describe it. :(
I was sweating it out yesterday.
My niece is a senior at VT. Finally got word from my Mom late last night, who called my brother that she is fine.
She and her boyfriend were having breakfast off campus about 7am. They heard nothing about was going on and then tried to go back so she could catch an 8 or 8:30 class, campus police stopped them at the entrance and told them to turn around, that the campus was closed. They still had no idea what was going on till they heard it a little while later on the radio.
I haven't heard anything else since then.
Andrew Longman
04-18-07, 08:57 AM
He bought it from this place (http://www.roanokefirearms.com/), which is in my hometown, about 50 miles north of B'burg. Most of the gun shops in town are places you can get anything if you ask nicely enough.
Ask about our concealed carry classes!
Lovely.
VA is reportedly the source for most of the illegal guns in NY/NJ.
Found out this a.m. that one of the dead is from Flemington, about 10 miles from me. His mother is a patient at my wife's practice.:shakehead
This has more to do with bad administrative decisions than bad police work.
Oh BS. The only one at fault here is the nutjob shooter.
I was sweating it out yesterday.
My niece is a senior at VT. Finally got word from my Mom late last night, who called my brother that she is fine.
She and her boyfriend were having breakfast off campus about 7am. They heard nothing about was going on and then tried to go back so she could catch an 8 or 8:30 class, campus police stopped them at the entrance and told them to turn around, that the campus was closed. They still had no idea what was going on till they heard it a little while later on the radio.
I haven't heard anything else since then.
The only one at fault here is the nutjob shooter.
Yep.
Dr. Corkski
04-18-07, 11:01 AM
Oh BS. The only one at fault here is the nutjob shooter.O RLY? The administration could clearly do no wrong since someone had already done more wrong.
Liviu Librescu, 75, a senior researcher and lecturer in engineering, was a Holocaust survivor. He had immigrated to Israel from Romania with his wife Marlina, also a survivor, in 1978. He was an expert in aeronautics at Tel Aviv University and the Haifa Technion before moving to the United States in 1984.
The couple's elder son, Arieh, lives in the town of Ra'anana, near Tel Aviv. Joe, the younger son, splits his time between the United States and Israel, where he was when news of his father's death arrived.
According to media accounts quoting students, Mr. Librescu and the class heard shooting in a nearby room. The students said their professor blocked the door to prevent the gunman from entering while some students took cover underneath desks and others leaped out from windows.
Reached by telephone in Ra'anana today, Ayala Librescu, one of his daughters-in-law, said the family "had no time to deal with the loss" and turned down requests for interviews. She confirmed that family members were making plans to fly to America Tuesday night and that they would be bringing Mr. Librescu's body back to Israel for burial.
Earlier today, Joe Librescu told Ynet, the website of the Hebrew daily Yediot Aharonot: "I understand from friends that my father was a hero. By blocking the door with his body he saved all the students who were in the classroom." Joe Librescu studied at Virginia Tech from 1989 to 1994, according to Israeli media reports.
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/liviu_librescu/index.html
:(
http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/l/liviu_librescu/index.html
:(
Although a sad end, his story is very inspiring. With all the bad, it's great to see true heroism.
chop456
04-18-07, 01:00 PM
Reached by telephone in Ra'anana today, Ayala Librescu, one of his daughters-in-law, said the family "had no time to deal with the loss" and turned down requests for interviews.
The media are filthy, bottom-feeding, morally repugnant swine? Who knew?
devilmaster
04-18-07, 01:29 PM
O RLY? The administration could clearly do no wrong since someone had already done more wrong.
Just a reminder all, this is a discussion with the joy of hindsight.
Over time as the scenario is relived, folded, spindled and mutilated, there will no doubt be things that the authorities can look at and say 'we need to do this better'.
It isn't all black and white. There's alot of gray in there.
Sean O'Gorman
04-18-07, 01:37 PM
The media are filthy, bottom-feeding, morally repugnant swine? Who knew?
But I thought Don Imus was the real bad guy? :shakehead
extramundane
04-18-07, 01:48 PM
But I thought Don Imus was the real bad guy? :shakehead
Once again, your timing is immaculate.
FCYTravis
04-18-07, 02:14 PM
The media are filthy, bottom-feeding, morally repugnant swine? Who knew?
And if the reporters hadn't bothered to make an attempt to talk to the family about their loss and find out more about this man's life, you'd be attacking them for ignoring the human side of the tragedy, right?
One of the toughest things any journalist has to do is talk to the family members of the dead. Especially the violently-dead. But it's part of the job, and it's part of reporting the whole story. If they'd rather not talk about it, that's all they have to say, and I'll hang up the phone.
Sean O'Gorman
04-18-07, 02:18 PM
Once again, your timing is immaculate.
In this instance, I'm sorry if it offends anyone, but I find the media behavior when it comes to events like this to be disgusting. Every hack TV, radio, or print journalist wants to take a tragedy about Virginia Tech and turn it into a story for their own benefit. Why else would reporters be asking questions so stupid as asking the head of VT if he plans on resigning?
And FWIW, one of my closest friends is an autocrosser who goes to VT, and she isn't too pleased with the media either. One example she gave was that reporters were asking friends of friends of those who were injured to get in touch with them for interviews. :thumdown: :thumdown:
Andrew Longman
04-18-07, 03:00 PM
Reporters talking to family members is one thing. That's their job and in the USA the public has a constitutionally protect right to know.
What the reporter does with the information gathered is another thing. Unfortunately in this age of 24 news cycles, increase competition and an almost complete demolition of the sacred wall dividing the business and editorial side of the business there is a lot of pressure to drop standards for good taste and ethics.
Interestingly, my brother is a veteran author and journalist and he's commented to me (most recently on the Imus deal) that internet news bloggers and bulletin boards are having a huge impact on how the public and corporate interests are viewing the news. Any hack can make up any claim or moral indignation and, unfiltered by an editor or fact checker, get thousands of people to email advertisers or companies or government officials to complain. Sounds like TF:gomer:
extramundane
04-18-07, 03:29 PM
In this instance, I'm sorry if it offends anyone, but I find the media behavior when it comes to events like this to be disgusting. Every hack TV, radio, or print journalist wants to take a tragedy about Virginia Tech and turn it into a story for their own benefit. Why else would reporters be asking questions so stupid as asking the head of VT if he plans on resigning?
I don't necessarily disagree, but you were just a wee bit lacking in tact.
FCYTravis
04-18-07, 03:38 PM
What the reporter does with the information gathered is another thing. Unfortunately in this age of 24 news cycles, increase competition and an almost complete demolition of the sacred wall dividing the business and editorial side of the business there is a lot of pressure to drop standards for good taste and ethics.
I absolutely agree with that. Good taste, ethics and tact are nowhere more important than in tragedies like these. They demand it, in fact.
So the sick **** sends a package with videos, etc. to NBC b/w the shooting incidents. :saywhat: Restating the obvious, but this was one sick mother ****er. :mad:
-Kevin
chop456
04-19-07, 01:55 AM
And if the reporters hadn't bothered to make an attempt to talk to the family about their loss and find out more about this man's life, you'd be attacking them for ignoring the human side of the tragedy, right?
Wrong.
One of the toughest things any journalist has to do is talk to the family members of the dead. Especially the violently-dead. But it's part of the job, and it's part of reporting the whole story. If they'd rather not talk about it, that's all they have to say, and I'll hang up the phone.
The victims' relatives are not the story, by definition. Thery're peripheral.
The media, by and large, are scum, pandering to the lowest common denominator of our society to earn ratings and sponsor dollars. It has little or nothing to do with reporting actual news and everything to do with evoking emotion from the viewer.
Legitimate television news in this country consists of one program. You won't see commercials and you won't see reporters sticking microphones in the faces of people who just watched their children die.
in the USA the public has a constitutionally protect right to know.
Please explain.
The media, by and large, are scum, pandering to the lowest common denominator of our society to earn ratings and sponsor dollars. It has little or nothing to do with reporting actual news and everything to do with evoking emotion from the viewer.
and who gets them those sponsor dollars? who are the ones showing those emotions?
the media does their job, some worse than others, but all around you see people lapping it up begging for more. even on this forum, a forum far more brilliant than most, you see folks hanging on cable news' every word.
Andrew Longman
04-19-07, 05:59 AM
Please explain.
Freedom of the press is protected by the First Amendment. The idea that the "Fourth Estate" is required by the people to keep the three branches of the government in line. It counters a practice in Colonial times when you needed a license from the British government to publish a newpaper
chop456
04-19-07, 06:35 AM
There's a vast difference between freedom of the press and your "right to know" which extends all the way to the end of your nose. That concept is abstract at best, unless you're speaking of something like the freedom of information act.
There's a line between common decency and reporting the news. Unfortunately, an ever-increasing number of so-called journalists fail to recognize where that line is. How many VT students do you suppose are appreciative of the hundreds of media on campus over the last few days? These are not criminals being chased down by some wanna-be gumshoe investigative reporter. These are kids who will never again be able to sit in a classroom without thinking about this. This just happens to be the most recent example of the newsertainment phenomenon.
And yes, of course the people who actually watch that tripe and consider it news are partially to blame for its degeneration.
Andrew Longman
04-19-07, 08:53 AM
There's a vast difference between freedom of the press and your "right to know"
Actually, there isn't a difference. The reason the press is protected is because it is deemed the public has a right to know what's going on.
There's a line between common decency and reporting the news.
Couldn't agree more. See my earlier post.
Sadly the crap that passes for news sells and Wall Street, not traditional editors, are more and more calling the shots. You know its bad when inevitably within 48 hours of an event like VT the press starts reporting on how its own reporting is overblown. Happens every time.
But there has always been a lowest common denominator and there has always been crap news. I'm just seeing so much more of it while the top end has gotten worse and smaller. But we can turn it off. I can't remember the last time I watched network news and local news is about the only thing I won't allow on TV in my home. Even Ninja Turtles have found its way at some point after the third kid arrived.
local news is about the only thing I won't allow on TV in my home. :thumbup: :thumbup:
That ain't news, it's entertainment, and it ain't very entertaining.
I had the unenviable burden of covering a tragic story on numerous occasions when I used to work for the paper. Most reporters (not all) get no joy or satisfaction out of covering such a story. I always hated to contact members of the families involved, but when your boss tells you to do it, you do it.
Early in my journalistic career, a local sprint car driver was killed in a race at Eldora. Thinking the family would want their space, I never contacted them. I later got several angry voice mails from members of the family, wondering why I had ignored them.
The more experience I gained in such situations, I grew to learn that most (not all) family members appreciated me taking the time to contact them. Over the years I received numerous emails, cards, etc. from family members thanking me for telling their story so that people would remember their son/daughter/husband/wife. They thanked me for helping them with the healing process.
So for all the people who get all self-righteous about the media, maybe they should experience what it's like to walk in either the shoes of a family member, or the shoes of a reporter, before they pass judgment.
So for all the people who get all self-righteous about the media, maybe they should experience what it's like to walk in either the shoes of a family member, or the shoes of a reporter, before they pass judgment.blame the media because of the self-guilt in enjoying the stories????
I'm asking.
Thanks for your perspective, rabbit.
blame the media because of the self-guilt in enjoying the stories????
I'm asking.
Thanks for your perspective, rabbit.Like I said, most, but not all (99.9 percent, I'd guess) reporters hate covering stories like this. They do it because it's their job. These people, the friends and family members of the victims, have a story to tell. And that's what reporters do, tell stories.
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