This morning

[WickerBill]

...I walk the gauntlet.

My boss put me forward for promotion and to get it, I have had to write a four page paper on how brilliant I am, and today I get to go in front of a room full of managers and directors and give a speech on how brilliant I am. After the speech, I get to answer their questions about if I'm really brilliant at all.

So I have a question -- is it this way everywhere? Or does my company take perverse pleasure in all of this lead-in work where most companies simply say "Hey, Joe Normal deserves a promotion" and give him one?


Just wondering.... and trying not to freak out (hey, it's just my career)

[Andrew Longman]

My experience is it is common to ask people to assess themselves as part of regular, annual reviews (and it actually is a good practice).

I've also seen the need to prepare reports, studies, etc. as part of certain certification programs which also often have some sort of peer review.

But no, for promotion to have a public demonstration seems a little odd to me.

Good luck!

[Spicoli]

what on earth do you do for a living?

[Insomniac]

Does seem a bit atypical. I'd think typical is you ask for a promotion (sometimes others decide you deserve one) and then it kind of goes up the ladder with (hopefully) your boss fighting to get you one.

[Sean O'Gorman]

Never happened to me, but that is hilarious. Good luck.

[Warlock!]

...most companies simply say "Hey, Joe Normal deserves a promotion" and give him one?
That's the way we do it, but I s'pose a construction company of 30+ employees can hardly be compared to anything except a similar-sized construction company.

[KLang]

Or does my company take perverse pleasure

I think that's it. :p

I've worked in IT at various sized companies over the years and have never before heard of the ritual that you describe.

[Ankf00]

what the heck do you do? i've never heard of any friend or family doing that. more like, hey, you kicked ass here, here, and here, you want to move halfway across the country/continent/globe and take over this for us? and oh yea, there's $$$$$$$$$$$ extra dollars for you too.

[Sean Malone]

I've worked for three national health care management companies in the past 15 years. Each one a billion dollar a year biz and never had to jump through hoops for a promotion. I've had VP's with cheerleader personalities and too many years attending Toast Masters try to add team building excersices by using public speaking but never in regards to obtaining a promotion.

Typically the promoting manager, director or VP will notify HR and then it becomes almost like a new hire process. Apply for the position, HR sends you an offer letter and poof, done.

Now, I have heard of review boards for applicants to the executive committee i.e. CIO, CEO, CFO etc (not just staff VP's).

How high up is this position?

[Wabbit]

I could go on for hours about the insane political process of reviews and promotions at my company. Basically, it's all management voodoo and asskissing. It's all based on "visibility" not performance and takes 3 months twice a year to complete. Hopefully none of my superiors see your process, or they might want to change. Then again, I work for a company where the typical interview takes 5 different people and 7 hours.

[Duroc]

I once did a gang-bang interview for a position in another functional area. The end result was a decision to find employment elsewhere. That m.o. wasn't in use in my department but I took it as in indicator of corporate priorities.

Problem:
I don't know how to hire and I don't want to be found out.

Solution:
An interview process that spreads the blame around as much as possible.

I've had multiple interviewer situations that were well structured and went off fine. If it seems odd then they don't know what they're doing. Not saying don't interview or take the position but go in with your eyes wide open. Clichéd but you're interviewing them as well and if you're uncomfortable for whatever reason do not assume an offer will make it all better.

Good luck.

[Insomniac]

I could go on for hours about the insane political process of reviews and promotions at my company. Basically, it's all management voodoo and asskissing. It's all based on "visibility" not performance and takes 3 months twice a year to complete. Hopefully none of my superiors see your process, or they might want to change. Then again, I work for a company where the typical interview takes 5 different people and 7 hours.

I think that's how it is in a lot of places. Seems like WB really has to work for his. If they require all people to do it, and don't give an advantage to their "boys", it might actually get the best qualified/hardest working people into those positions.

[dando]

Jeebus. :eek: I've never heard of such a process to get a promotion. In my world the manager completes a justification for a promo, which then goes up the chain for review and approval/denial. This usually occurs as a part of the annual review/self evaluation/360 feedback process, but it can also occur during other times of the year as well. I need to ask my mom (former VP of HR) if she's ever heard of such a process.

Good luck with that shizzle.

-Kevin

[cameraman]

Bleah.

At research universities you do job talks for post doc and jr faculity posts. The person comes into town and interviews with a bunch of folk and gives a presentation of their current research in a one hour talk. But giving talks is part of the job so it fits with the whole career path.

I've never heard of the 4 page "I'm so wonderful" essay. You put that in a cv and you will pretty much guarantee yourself of not getting the job...

[Don Quixote]

It almost seems that they take great delight in seeing how far out on the ego plank you are willing to walk. I picture a bunch of immature aholes tittering about the interview after you leave the room. I would play the humility card. It seems that talking yourself up too much usually ends up in trouble.

[Ankf00]

so how did "I am Awesome and I Love Me, and You Should Too!!" Hour turn out?

[Cam]

Just showed this post to a buddy of mine that works for an even larger corp than WB does (Firestone) and his thoughts on that were "that's wierd".

WB... Maybe your managers are partaking too much of one of the products they produce... :saywhat:

[Sean O'Gorman]

WB... Maybe your managers are partaking too much of one of the products they produce... :saywhat:

Does he work for a paint company or something?

[WickerBill]

Sneak peek into the process....

My four-pager goes to this committee (as well as the four-pagers of the other people who want a promotion at my level), everyone on the committee (10 people, all very high-ranking) review each document and get familiar with it. Then comes "speech day" where each of those lucky souls who want a promo go in front of the committee, talk for 10 minutes about accomplishments (rehash what is in the four pager or other things that didn't make the four-pager), then sit for 15 minutes and answer a barrage of questions from the committee members.

My sponsors (closest two layers of my management) sit with me in front of this committee and listen to me talk and listen to me answer questions. Then I am escorted from the room, and the committee grills the sponsors on my worthiness. Sponsors leave the room, committee votes.

Results of vote go to finance dept who can accept or reject any person who was accepted by the committee.

So I completed the gauntlet (speech day) today but I won't find out until June whether I got it or not.


I have to say -- there's no question that the unworthy will fail at this... but the rigor and the insane pressure the candidate undergoes is brutal and seems way over the top.


Cam... shut it!


Edit: by the way -- this is NOT a high-ranking job or title I'm going after. Not at all. If I get it, I will still be a good seven layers down from the big cheese.

[Ed_Severson]

Maybe your managers are partaking too much of one of the products they produce... :saywhat:

http://blog.jeremyandkelly.com/images/chronic.jpg ???

[TravelGal]

[QUOTE=WickerBill;192614
Results of vote go to finance dept who can accept or reject any person who was accepted by the committee.

[/QUOTE]

Now THAT is weird. Not that the rest isn't, of course.

[dando]

Sneak peek into the process....

My four-pager goes to this committee (as well as the four-pagers of the other people who want a promotion at my level), everyone on the committee (10 people, all very high-ranking) review each document and get familiar with it. Then comes "speech day" where each of those lucky souls who want a promo go in front of the committee, talk for 10 minutes about accomplishments (rehash what is in the four pager or other things that didn't make the four-pager), then sit for 15 minutes and answer a barrage of questions from the committee members.

My sponsors (closest two layers of my management) sit with me in front of this committee and listen to me talk and listen to me answer questions. Then I am escorted from the room, and the committee grills the sponsors on my worthiness. Sponsors leave the room, committee votes.

Results of vote go to finance dept who can accept or reject any person who was accepted by the committee.

So I completed the gauntlet (speech day) today but I won't find out until June whether I got it or not.


I have to say -- there's no question that the unworthy will fail at this... but the rigor and the insane pressure the candidate undergoes is brutal and seems way over the top.


Cam... shut it!


Edit: by the way -- this is NOT a high-ranking job or title I'm going after. Not at all. If I get it, I will still be a good seven layers down from the big cheese.

dude, are you pulling our legs? This must be from an upcoming epi of The Office, right? Or is this a preview of Office Space 2? If not = :saywhat: :eek: :shakehead

-Kevin

[nrc]

At Lucent the process was similar, although we didn't have the speech part.

When your direct manager decided you were worthy you would be asked assemble "a package". The package was a portfolio of documentation of all the wonderful things you had done in your current position - reports, white papers, memos, anything to prove you had actually achieved something. Then you would write a document summarizing these achievements and explaining how they demonstrate your worthiness for the promotion.

Your boss would submit your package to a committee of managers. They would then meet and deliberate on the candidates. With more candidates than promotions this system was dreamed up as being more fair than having individual bosses hand out promotions.

The trouble was that the processes tended to reward the candidates of popular or forceful managers rather than the best candidates. Managers on the comittee would undermine other candidates to the benefit of their own. Salary and bonuses worked in a similar way.

I'm sure it's changed since I left. You probably have to submit your package in both English and French now. :)

[oddlycalm]

Hope you get the job WB. :thumbup:

BTW, anyone ever bother to calculate the actual cost of having all that talent tied up over a basic management decision? That cost and a summation of the company business that was not being attended to would make an interesting presentation.

oc

[Sean Malone]

Hope you get the job WB. :thumbup:

BTW, anyone ever bother to calculate the actual cost of having all that talent tied up over a basic management decision? That cost and a summation of the company business that was not being attended to would make an interesting presentation.

oc

I was thinking the same thing. I did some contracting for a household name company earlier this year. There was so much bloat because of an overabundance of resources that it seemed more time went into thinking up ways to spend their money (usually on promotions) than on the business. And yes, as a contractor they were paying me a ridiculous amount of money for the work I did for them (project manager/business analyst for an IVR implementation).

[Spicoli]

Dang.

This is far too complicated for me. I had to read that about 4 times to comprehend it. I guess we won't find out what company/position this is for (which is cool), but if you say this is still gonna keep you several layers down.....Is it even worth it?:saywhat:


Isn;t this what CEOs and the like are s'poset to go thru? :\

I love me my small group o folks I work with. No 9-5, no boss, no nothing, just put up the numbers and take care o yo peeps. :thumbup:

Anyway - good luck.

[Ankf00]

I love me my small group o folks I work with. No 9-5, no boss, no nothing, just put up the numbers and take care o yo peeps. :thumbup:



I didn't realize the Juarez and Gulf Cartels were so pleasant to deal with

[Sean O'Gorman]

I just didn't realize he has a job.

[JLMannin]

Sneak peek into the process....

My four-pager goes to this committee (as well as the four-pagers of the other people who want a promotion at my level), everyone on the committee (10 people, all very high-ranking) review each document and get familiar with it. Then comes "speech day" where each of those lucky souls who want a promo go in front of the committee, talk for 10 minutes about accomplishments (rehash what is in the four pager or other things that didn't make the four-pager), then sit for 15 minutes and answer a barrage of questions from the committee members.

My sponsors (closest two layers of my management) sit with me in front of this committee and listen to me talk and listen to me answer questions. Then I am escorted from the room, and the committee grills the sponsors on my worthiness. Sponsors leave the room, committee votes.

Results of vote go to finance dept who can accept or reject any person who was accepted by the committee.

So I completed the gauntlet (speech day) today but I won't find out until June whether I got it or not.


I have to say -- there's no question that the unworthy will fail at this... but the rigor and the insane pressure the candidate undergoes is brutal and seems way over the top.


Cam... shut it!


Edit: by the way -- this is NOT a high-ranking job or title I'm going after. Not at all. If I get it, I will still be a good seven layers down from the big cheese.

In my component, our team leader does the presentation for the in-line promotions . In line meaning associate-blank to blank to assisant-senior-blank. The in-line promotions require a max one page write-up and basically focuses on your impact to the business. The process for going from the associate level to the senior level is closer to what you describe, but I am not positive the candidates have to present their own dossier. For the advanced titles promotion process, the candidates have to present their own dossiers as you describe.

Good Luck

[pfc_m_drake]

Sneak peek into the process....

My four-pager goes to this committee (as well as the four-pagers of the other people who want a promotion at my level), everyone on the committee (10 people, all very high-ranking) review each document and get familiar with it. Then comes "speech day" where each of those lucky souls who want a promo go in front of the committee, talk for 10 minutes about accomplishments (rehash what is in the four pager or other things that didn't make the four-pager), then sit for 15 minutes and answer a barrage of questions from the committee members.

My sponsors (closest two layers of my management) sit with me in front of this committee and listen to me talk and listen to me answer questions. Then I am escorted from the room, and the committee grills the sponsors on my worthiness. Sponsors leave the room, committee votes.

Results of vote go to finance dept who can accept or reject any person who was accepted by the committee.

So I completed the gauntlet (speech day) today but I won't find out until June whether I got it or not.


I have to say -- there's no question that the unworthy will fail at this... but the rigor and the insane pressure the candidate undergoes is brutal and seems way over the top.


Cam... shut it!


Edit: by the way -- this is NOT a high-ranking job or title I'm going after. Not at all. If I get it, I will still be a good seven layers down from the big cheese.
I got it! You're being inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame :D :saywhat: :D

[chop456]

BTW, anyone ever bother to calculate the actual cost of having all that talent tied up over a basic management decision? That cost and a summation of the company business that was not being attended to would make an interesting presentation.

http://www.effectivemeetings.com/diversions/meetingclock.asp

I've been pushing to implement this for years. So far - no dice. :D

[Joelski]

Sounds like begging or somesuch other sort of humiliation. Whetever happened to being awarded a promotion based on merit alone? I've submitted research and done these stupid "TV commercials" in order to add components to my job, but only as an adjunct to what I do and usually as a result of a request I've made. This sounds MBA level self-promotion at work. Makes me glad I stuck to the clinical track! Good luck, wick! :D

[WickerBill]

Joelski, I'm on the technical track where I work... the management track must be even worse. I can't imagine.

[G.]

Joelski, I'm on the technical track where I work... the management track must be even worse. I can't imagine.Where I'm at, the techies have to go through review, but it's managers and senior techies doing the dog-n-pony, not the promotee.

Managers go through a more normal path.

Finance ALWAYS has the final word, ie., are promos financially frozen or not.

[Turn7]

At a past employer there was a similar process for a technical person to be accepted into a program for technical career path individuals.

You had engineers that were able to progress to a certain point but, to cross over a threshold that allowed you to direct high level research with budget responsibilities required nomination by a Principal Member of the Technical Career Path and a review and assessment by you're perspective peers. However, that was usually after the individual had obtained at least 1 key patents and associated with 3 or 4 others along with being a participant on one or more boards governing standards or protocol definition for emerging technologies.

For regular old IT/Engineering work that seems a bit overboard.

[TravelGal]

Finance ALWAYS has the final word, ie., are promos financially frozen or not.

That part is standard, yes, but I got from what WB wrote was that the promotion is approved but finance can disapprove the CHOICE. That to me is bizarre. So bizarre in fact that I'm willing to admit I must have read it wrong.

This all reminds me of my first full-time job. I hired on as an admin assistant so I could get my foot in the door. Being young, I didn't realize how hard it would be to cross the Rubicon and get into management. I well remember the day when my boss came back after several hours of grilling in the Personnel department. He was ashen. As he passed my desk he said, "We made it but I had to give up two left handed pitchers and a player to be named later."

[racermike]

http://www.luminomagazine.com/2004.03/spotlight/officespace/images/lumbergh/lumbergh1.jpg

"Ummm, yeah, I am gonna have to go ahead and ask you to write something about yourself for your promotion to present to the rest of the management staff. If you could do that as soon as possible, that would be terrific, Okaaaay?"

[WickerBill]

That part is standard, yes, but I got from what WB wrote was that the promotion is approved but finance can disapprove the CHOICE. That to me is bizarre. So bizarre in fact that I'm willing to admit I must have read it wrong.

If there are, say, 10 people who are approved by this committee... and finance decides they only want to pay 6... four people are losing it. They will choose not by quality of the employee but time spent at the current level. A twisted FIFO.

[TravelGal]

If there are, say, 10 people who are approved by this committee... and finance decides they only want to pay 6... four people are losing it. They will choose not by quality of the employee but time spent at the current level. A twisted FIFO.

At least you know it's a crapshoot going in. For whatever that's worth......... :shakehead

[oddlycalm]

I'm on the technical track where I work... the management track must be even worse. I can't imagine. The upside is that you'll have plenty of practice by the time that first CEO search team contacts you while the rest of us will all be full of anxiety trying to polish up our acts...;)

Seriously, we do tend to get through these things and once they are behind us they are confidence builders.

oc

[Indy]

Jeebus! This sort of thing is just why I can not function in a corporate office.

My "appraisal" is written in dollars and cents. 100% commission, baby. I love it. You want a raise? Sell more!

[Spicoli]

Jeebus! This sort of thing is just why I can not function in a corporate office.

My "appraisal" is written in dollars and cents. 100% commission, baby. I love it. You want a raise? Sell more!


Yep.


$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


more time for other, umm, Stuff! :thumbup: :D

[Ankf00]

more time for other, umm, Stuff! :thumbup: :D

you still have Carlos Escobar's digits? you know, jus' axin':gomer:

[Ankf00]

.

[Turn7]

.

One of your better comments.

[Insomniac]

One of your better comments.

He's just padding his post count. ;)

[G.]

So, what's the verdict, Ex-Boss?

Did you wear enough Flair and land the post?

[WickerBill]

The answer, my friend, is still 3-4 weeks away. I have heard absolutely nothing. I must wait.

It's a serious PITA.

[dando]

The answer, my friend, is still 3-4 weeks away. I have heard absolutely nothing. I must wait.

It's a serious PITA.

Well, look on the bright side...@ least you dint hafta complete a Survivoresque competition like they had on The Office last week for Michael's job. :rofl:

-Kevin

[Cam]

Not to hijaak this, but I had a "phone interview" today. It wasn't an interview it was a test that I got blindsided by... I ended up sounding like bloody Tony George! Errr Ummm..... I don't know... Purely because it was unexpected... Needless to say... Still unemployed... *sigh*

[Kiwifan]

Take care Cam, you too WB. Good luck to both of ya.

Rusty.

[WickerBill]

I got it.

:)

[KLang]

Congrats :thumbup:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Congrats. I think. :saywhat: ;)

[Ankf00]

w00t.:thumbup:

your sub-handle should be changed to "Lumberg" ;)

[RHR_Fan]

Nice "job" bud. ;) I know, bad pun.

~Nicole

[Don Quixote]

Congrats! Does this put you in the position of later putting others through the same process that you endured? :)

[dando]

I got it.

:)

Congrats. Now go make someone's life miserable. :gomer: ;)

-Kevin

[oddlycalm]

Congrats! Does this put you in the position of later putting others through the same process that you endured? :) Nice, I was waiting for that. :D

Congrats WB :thumbup:

oc

[Spicoli]

:thumbup:

now go celebrate by drinking. a bunch.

[Insomniac]

Congrats WB.

[WickerBill]

Thanks everyone. Now move along...