Just Curious

[Andrew Longman]

I posted this Q over at TF. I'm interested in the informed and considered response from this group.

If you where responsible for making the business decisions, which asset is most important to protect and grow; IMS (the facility and its use), The Indy 500, or the IRL (the series)?

Obviously there are many interdependencies, but in any business you must have a strategy that sets one (or a very few things) more important than anything else and which guides other strategic and operational decisions.

What say ye?

[G.]

I posted this Q over at TF. I'm interested in the informed and considered response from this group.

If you where responsible for making the business decisions, which asset is most important to protect and grow; IMS (the facility and its use), The Indy 500, or the IRL (the series)?

Obviously there are many interdependencies, but in any business you must have a strategy that sets one (or a very few things) more important than anything else and which guides other strategic and operational decisions.

What say ye?I ain't no businessman, but I'd say that you typed them in the right order.

[devilmaster]

Why should 1 thing take precedence?

My idea would be that each piece compliments the other. You try and grow them all and make them all better, because any of them stronger helps the others.

Now if :tony: had thought of that years ago, perhaps we wouldn't be having this discussion. If he had checked all the scenarios, perhaps someone could have explained to him that 10% of a 500 million dollar pot is better than 100% of a 30 million dollar pot.

[dando]

I posted this Q over at TF. I'm interested in the informed and considered response from this group.

If you where responsible for making the business decisions, which asset is most important to protect and grow; IMS (the facility and its use), The Indy 500, or the IRL (the series)?

Obviously there are many interdependencies, but in any business you must have a strategy that sets one (or a very few things) more important than anything else and which guides other strategic and operational decisions.

What say ye?

IMS by far. The BY 400, 497.5, and USGP = > $$$ than just the 497.5 and EARL. Take away the EARL and you still have the others.

-Kevin

[Racing Truth]

Why should 1 thing take precedence?

My idea would be that each piece compliments the other. You try and grow them all and make them all better, because any of them stronger helps the others.

Now if :tony: had thought of that years ago, perhaps we wouldn't be having this discussion. If he had checked all the scenarios, perhaps someone could have explained to him that 10% of a 500 million dollar pot is better than 100% of a 30 million dollar pot.

Agreed. Ultimately, its an impossible question to answer. Say the IRL (OW, in general) was thriving. That boosts the 500, which boosts IMS. I don't see how you can separate the fortunes of IMS, the 500, and the IRL.

[cameraman]

IMS by far. The BY 400, 497.5, and USGP = > $$$ than just the 497.5 and EARL. Take away the EARL and you still have the others.

-Kevin

Then toss in a MotoGP race that will probably outdraw the entire IRL schedule combined and you have your answer.

[jonovision_man]

If you where responsible for making the business decisions, which asset is most important to protect and grow; IMS (the facility and its use), The Indy 500, or the IRL (the series)?

Obviously there are many interdependencies, but in any business you must have a strategy that sets one (or a very few things) more important than anything else and which guides other strategic and operational decisions.

What say ye?

If the IRL disappeared tomorrow, the Indy 500 and IMS could easily continue with ChampCar... so they are by far the most important assets to US OW. In fact they were far more successful before the IRL than they are today, if anything the formation of the IRL hindered the Indy 500 and IMS's success.

You can't really separate the 500 and IMS. The 500 wouldn't be the Indy 500 without IMS and IMS wouldn't be important if the Indy 500 wasn't run there...

jono

[Insomniac]

IMS and the Indy 500. They're the only reason the IRL is "successful".

[Gnam]

You can't really separate the 500 and IMS. The 500 wouldn't be the Indy 500 without IMS and IMS wouldn't be important if the Indy 500 wasn't run there...

jono
That is changing. IMS holds rounds of three different Championship series (F1, NASCAR, IRL) and is rumored to be adding MotoGP. If the 500 race was dropped, IMS would still be an important part of the motorsports world.

[emjaya]

The IMS, The 500, The IRL, in that order.

The 500 has made the IMS world famous, so famous that the 500 could probably disappear and no-one would notice.The BY400 is now the new 500.

The IRL is the least important.Any fool could create a series that confused.

[jonovision_man]

That is changing. IMS holds rounds of three different Championship series (F1, NASCAR, IRL) and is rumored to be adding MotoGP. If the 500 race was dropped, IMS would still be an important part of the motorsports world.

That's true. And if you consider the world-wide audience for F1, the Indy 500 isn't even the most watched race at IMS. IIRC there was one year the BY400 had a better rating than the Indy500.

Still... the Indy 500 made IMS, it's the history that makes it a compelling venue, more than what's going on there at present.

jono

[Spicoli]

If Tony would have just finished Shop Class and got a real job, this thread would never have existed.

[dando]

Then toss in a MotoGP race that will probably outdraw the entire IRL schedule combined and you have your answer.

I actually thought about adding MotoGP would be the 497.5 replacement series as ai was typing my reply. :)

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

Whoa, interesting. Not necessarily what I expected. Let me try this on.

If IMS is the most important asset then that brick, mortar and land should be maximized for return. That means run as many races, racing schools, golf outtings, tours, etc as possible. It means that the 500 is important but really ultimately not any more important than any other race there. And every day you have to ask if this space would create a greater return if you tore it down an put 10000 luxury condos or such.

If you go and say the 500 event and brand are most important then every decision is driven by how to maximize that. That means minimizing all distractions and detractions from the month of May. It means getting the greatest drivers, teams, cars there. It means doing what you can to make every year greater than the last.

That doesn't necessarily mean not running other races there or even having an Indy series, but it must be done in a context that adds excitement and value to the 500 or at least doesn't take it away.

[Insomniac]

Whoa, interesting. Not necessarily what I expected. Let me try this on.

If IMS is the most important asset then that brick, mortar and land should be maximized for return. That means run as many races, racing schools, golf outtings, tours, etc as possible. It means that the 500 is important but really ultimately not any more important than any other race there. And every day you have to ask if this space would create a greater return if you tore it down an put 10000 luxury condos or such.

If you go and say the 500 event and brand are most important then every decision is driven by how to maximize that. That means minimizing all distractions and detractions from the month of May. It means getting the greatest drivers, teams, cars there. It means doing what you can to make every year greater than the last.

That doesn't necessarily mean not running other races there or even having an Indy series, but it must be done in a context that adds excitement and value to the 500 or at least doesn't take it away.

They do use the facilities for more than the Indy 500, BY 400 and F1. I'd also venture to guess that year over year they do make more money despite the lower attendance at the Indy 500.

[Andrew Longman]

They do use the facilities for more than the Indy 500, BY 400 and F1. I'd also venture to guess that year over year they do make more money despite the lower attendance at the Indy 500.

Sure, and that's not surprising. My point is that whether TG is conscious of it or not, his actions seem to indicate that he considers the 500 the least important of the three.

By wishing to control the series that supplies cars to the 500 he, knowingly or not, said the series is so important it doesn't matter if getting it damages the 500 itself by producing a field of less known drivers and endless bad PR around the event.

And by adding more race dates he has sold more tickets than he used to but he also had to invest heavily in the facility. Maybe that investment was a good thing. The place is a lot nicer for fans and teams, but it diluted the importance of the 500 and he has done nothing to make the 500 bigger than it was. Indeed he's done the opposite.

Making the 500 bigger might have meant rather than shunning foreign drivers, they should have embraced them, putting the 500 on a wider world stage. What if CART had continued it's trend to threaten F1 or at least be a viable alternative for drivers, teams and sponsors? That rising tide would also lift CART biggest boat. In any event, the bigger the 500 is the more viable it is to do as a one off. Imagine it being big enough that the likes of Senna, Schumacher and Gordon can't resist the chance at the payday. Or that manufacturers such as BMW and Ferrari can't resist participating, even as a one off.

Sure that's dreaming, but the 500 used to be that way, it just didn't keep up with changing conditions. And the possibilities for it happening again in 1995 were less far fetched than thinking a racing dentist was going to bring the 500 to the next level.:rolleyes:

[Insomniac]

Sure, and that's not surprising. My point is that whether TG is conscious of it or not, his actions seem to indicate that he considers the 500 the least important of the three.

By wishing to control the series that supplies cars to the 500 he, knowingly or not, said the series is so important it doesn't matter if getting it damages the 500 itself by producing a field of less known drivers and endless bad PR around the event.

And by adding more race dates he has sold more tickets than he used to but he also had to invest heavily in the facility. Maybe that investment was a good thing. The place is a lot nicer for fans and teams, but it diluted the importance of the 500 and he has done nothing to make the 500 bigger than it was. Indeed he's done the opposite.

Making the 500 bigger might have meant rather than shunning foreign drivers, they should have embraced them, putting the 500 on a wider world stage. What if CART had continued it's trend to threaten F1 or at least be a viable alternative for drivers, teams and sponsors? That rising tide would also lift CART biggest boat. In any event, the bigger the 500 is the more viable it is to do as a one off. Imagine it being big enough that the likes of Senna, Schumacher and Gordon can't resist the chance at the payday. Or that manufacturers such as BMW and Ferrari can't resist participating, even as a one off.

Sure that's dreaming, but the 500 used to be that way, it just didn't keep up with changing conditions. And the possibilities for it happening again in 1995 were less far fetched than thinking a racing dentist was going to bring the 500 to the next level.:rolleyes:

It appears TG's desire to control OWR in NA > his desire to make the Indy 500 bigger. Objectively, it seems either he still believes the Indy 500 is the pinnacle of motor racing or isn't concerned enough about the watering down of what was once a great race to make any concessions to make it better. Fact of the matter is, he is going to have to make some concessions to CC or wait until CC is gone.

[Andrew Longman]

It appears TG's desire to control OWR in NA > his desire to make the Indy 500 bigger.

Right. And even Wilke said that the 500 was most important. :eek:

[JLMannin]

"The Vision" was always about making sure that the 500 was WAY more significant that any series is is a part of - that was the danger of CART. The track made the 500 what it was, so that makes the order IMS > 500 >>>>>>>>>>> IRL.

So, even if the 500 lost half of its TV audience, the rest of open wheel lost like 90% - that makes the 500 at least an order of magnitude more important that the series - Vision accomplished.

[jonovision_man]

Sure, and that's not surprising. My point is that whether TG is conscious of it or not, his actions seem to indicate that he considers the 500 the least important of the three.

By wishing to control the series that supplies cars to the 500 he, knowingly or not, said the series is so important it doesn't matter if getting it damages the 500 itself by producing a field of less known drivers and endless bad PR around the event.

The way TG saw it, leaving CART in control of the series would have hurt the Indy 500. He felt that if he were in control, the future of the Indy 500 would be in better hands.

A decade later, it's clear he made the wrong decision and hurt the 500 in the process... not to mention bringing CART to its knees and causing what should be a healthy US OW to be stuck swirling around the drain.

And I agree with your sentiment about foreign drivers to a point. It's an American race, it should feature solid American participation. I see the importance of that more than I perhaps used to. But it would be nice to see the best of the best from OW and NASCAR coming to the Indy 500 to fight it out... it's a shame that it's Grand Am that provides that now. :p

jono

[dando]

A decade later, it's clear he made the wrong decision and hurt the 500 in the process... not to mention bringing CART to its knees and causing what should be a healthy US OW to be stuck swirling around the drain.


C^RT was it's own worst enemy. FTG only helped enable that. If the C^RT leadership had been focused on doing what was right for the sport rather than filling their pockets, FTG and his hallucinations would have been history long ago.

-Kevin

[Andrew Longman]

C^RT was it's own worst enemy. FTG only helped enable that. If the C^RT leadership had been focused on doing what was right for the sport rather than filling their pockets, FTG and his hallucinations would have been history long ago.

-Kevin

The worst of CARTs behavior came post split. In a way its not surprising because given the split, and with hamstrung leadership, it was not clear how they competed and what their strategic direction was. That's a perfect prescription for "every-man-for-yourself" behavior.

Before the split you can perhaps blame them for not doing a better job of kissing TGs ass, but my point in starting this thread was that TG simply got his own best interests wrong. It is sometimes hard to help a man determined to hurt himself.

[pchall]

School bus racing. The answer is school bus racing. Easy to put a figure 8 in that oval if you just bulldoze a few holes on the stupid golf course.

The more crap TG throws on the wall to cover up his original mistake the better.

[jonovision_man]

The worst of CARTs behavior came post split. In a way its not surprising because given the split, and with hamstrung leadership, it was not clear how they competed and what their strategic direction was. That's a perfect prescription for "every-man-for-yourself" behavior.

Before the split you can perhaps blame them for not doing a better job of kissing TGs ass, but my point in starting this thread was that TG simply got his own best interests wrong. It is sometimes hard to help a man determined to hurt himself.

It's clear both sides misjudged the importance of the Indy 500.

CART thought too little of Indy, thought the series could do without it. Who can forget "the real cars, the real stars, the real 500"? They thought the series was bigger than the Indy 500, that they could just create their own new race and leave TG in the dust.

They were wrong.

TG thought too much of Indy, he thought just having the Indy 500 would be enough to create a successful series, felt he could leverage the one race into much more.

He was wrong.

It's a decade later, TG still thinks he can use the Indy 500 to create a successful series but clearly that hasn't been the case. And KK picked up the torch from CART and seems to think he can have a successful series without the Indy 500, but it hasn't happened.

So bloody frustrating to be a fan of US OW... seems so obvious, yet the people in charge still don't get it.

jono

[Chief]

If the IRL disappeared tomorrow....
....no one would even care. The 500 is/was the draw for all the other things, so the only thing left is IMS..

[FTG]

If your mother made you spend every Memorial Day with the man who shot your father, when you grew up you would destroy all of your family's most important Memorial Day traditions too.

Anyone who thinks that it has anything to do with business, common sense or even control, should've figured out by now that it doesn't.