Gimli says the merger is "a completely dead issue"

[Insomniac]

Surprised there is no thread on this yet. There's been a couple articles about it. Some quotes:

"This split has been going on forever," Bourdais said Friday. "But we all know there's only room for one series when we have two. We need to be one, but those are things I don't have control over, so I've stopped worrying about it."

"You have two people [George and Kalkhoven] who don't want to give up their 51 percent [ownership] for decision-making," said Rahal, who is clearly wise beyond his 18 years. "And you've got Tony, who in my opinion is a little bit caught in the mind-set that his series is OK."
Pretty good article: http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=5&columnist=blount_terry&id=2844351

"A lot of progress had been made," Kalkhoven said. "But the moment it leaked out, a lot of influences came into play from those who might not have benefited from such a unification.

"Basically, for now and the foreseeable future, it's dead."
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/columns/story?seriesId=5&columnist=blount_terry&id=2845680


Forsythe: “I spent a whole day with Tony George last year and I think one of the largest issues we had to do with was the contract with Honda. Honda basically controls the IRL as the only engine supplier, and how would we put Champ Car and IRL together with Honda.”

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/36957/?page=2

I think all these are worth reading to get an idea of what they're thinking right now.

I also found RM's latest commentary interesting as well:

To his credit, Kevin Kalkhoven seems to understand the consequences of disappearing for nearly two months and, after attending last May, what the Indianapolis 500 could do for his series.

The co-owner of Champ Car says he suggested to Tony George last February that if they received free engines, he and Gerald Forsythe would purchase an equal number of chassis from Dallara and bring Bourdais, Tracy, Rahal, Wilson, Legge, etc.

George acknowledged the conversation took place, although he claims it was a little more vague, but eventually chose not to respond.
http://www.speedtv.com/commentary/36919/

[Spicoli]

The onl;y thing new in there is the Uncle Gerry quote. I'm surprised he even met face to face with TonyTard.

And when they say things got leaked, and then other influences started in, I have to believe that was Homoco & Cappy Liverspots. And to a lesser degree, NASCAR Cartel.

Frustrating for everyone, to say the least. :shakehead

[Insomniac]

The onl;y thing new in there is the Uncle Gerry quote. I'm surprised he even met face to face with TonyTard.

And when they say things got leaked, and then other influences started in, I have to believe that was Homoco & Cappy Liverspots. And to a lesser degree, NASCAR Cartel.

Frustrating for everyone, to say the least. :shakehead

I don't think there's anything ground breaking as you said as far as the merger goes. Just got some interesting quotes from Graham and the transcript of the interview with the 4 amigos discussed a fair amount of stuff.

The Indy proposal was new to me though. TG couldn't even come together on that. He'd rather pay more for lower quality drivers/teams.

[KLang]

The Indy proposal was new to me though. TG couldn't even come together on that. He'd rather pay more for lower quality drivers/teams.

I think that was just a PR stunt to make TG look bad. There is a GF quote around somewhere asking for Penske's setups. :laugh:

[oddlycalm]

I have to believe that was Homoco & Cappy Liverspots. And to a lesser degree, NASCAR Cartel. Almost certainly since they are the ones with something to lose. Forsythe's comment about Honda controlling the EARL is also telling.

Bottom line is that there is nothing to discuss any longer.

oc

[Andrew Longman]

Dead for now. TG is waiting to see if they make it and will pick up the scraps.

KK is waiting until the Honda contract is up to see if they re-up. If they don't maybe there will be reason to talk.

[skaven]

Works for me. As long as TG is around, I have an excuse not to join my family of TG-toadies in Indianer. :tony:

[Jervis Tetch 1]

Dead and buried.

[Spicoli]

Works for me. As long as TG is around, I have an excuse not to join my family of TG-toadies in Indianer. :tony:

See you in BC next fall. :D


Or did you talk to the wifey about RA? :saywhat:

:runs:

[skaven]

See you in BC next fall. :D


Or did you talk to the wifey about RA? :saywhat:

:runs:

I did ask her about RA and a week-long road trip as I have to be in Cincy the weekend before. Surprise - she's not interested... :D

As such, this will be the first year since Jox/ Indy '95 that I won't be going to a race. Not giving up on the series yet, but I'm forever losing interest. They'll keep charging me $5.00/ month for Race Director and I'll keep hoping they pull this off.

[Spicoli]

I did ask her about RA and a week-long road trip as I have to be in Cincy the weekend before. Surprise - she's not interested... :D

As such, this will be the first year since Jox/ Indy '95 that I won't be going to a race. Not giving up on the series yet, but I'm forever losing interest. They'll keep charging me $5.00/ month for Race Director and I'll keep hoping they pull this off.

You could lie and say that the bus trip is a week long. Or whatever lie works. It's completely up to you.:laugh:

[skaven]

You could lie and say that the bus trip is a week long. Or whatever lie works. It's completely up to you.:laugh:

Mark Twain, "When in doubt, tell the truth." :thumbup:

As such, your idea no worky. I guess that's also why I don't talk racing with the folks as they prefer to pretend that ole Tony George is doing a great job... :tony:

[gjc2]

KK is waiting until the Honda contract is up

When is the IRL's Honda contract up?

[Insomniac]

When is the IRL's Honda contract up?

Supposed to go through 2009 but they have outs every year.

[Spicoli]

When is the IRL's Honda contract up?

The other umor is that IRL has to have in place an American badged engine in 08 or they can get out.

Lets face it - homoco can do whatever they want when they want, and trusting robert Clarke is their first mistake.

[Insomniac]

The other umor is that IRL has to have in place an American badged engine in 08 or they can get out.

Lets face it - homoco can do whatever they want when they want, and trusting robert Clarke is their first mistake.

I thought they had an out if there is no competing manufacturer (not a rumor, but reported somewhere).

[jonovision_man]

I thought they had an out if there is no competing manufacturer (not a rumor, but reported somewhere).

This isn't the same as the old days where manufacturers invested in competing hoping for a marketing boost. They're just selling engines now, the marketing comes from pretty signs at races, and Honda commercials with Marco in them.

There's really no reason for them to be out, as long as the teams keep cutting them cheques to provide engines. They're probably making a tidy little profit at it.

jono

[nrc]

There's really no reason for them to be out, as long as the teams keep cutting them cheques to provide engines. They're probably making a tidy little profit at it.

jono

Depends on whether they're obligated to spend a certain amount on ad space.

[Spicoli]

First - I think we are al saying the same thing: Honda is supposed to have a competitor in the IRL by 08, and it's to be an American Auto Company that badges it, or they can leave. But why trust Robert Clarke? :\

Second - yeah, this isn't the AOW from the 80s or 90s with REAL competition, but more of a badging deal with a complex contract that calls for certain levels of support in the form of team subsidies, marketing dollars spent, promotions being run, etc etc etc. EG: Bridgestone is still on CCWS cars, they just pulled back on their $$$ and on-site promo programs, thus they are dropped from the title of the series.

third: we need a race in May. :irked:

[Elmo T]

third: we need a race in May. :irked:

Great weather in the Philly area in late May ;) . New mayor will be coming in this year too.

So what American Motor Company anyway? Briggs and Stratton Motorsports (http://www.briggsracing.com/display/router.asp?docid=101244)

[Insomniac]

This isn't the same as the old days where manufacturers invested in competing hoping for a marketing boost. They're just selling engines now, the marketing comes from pretty signs at races, and Honda commercials with Marco in them.

There's really no reason for them to be out, as long as the teams keep cutting them cheques to provide engines. They're probably making a tidy little profit at it.

jono

I didn't mean to imply they wanted out, just that they could get out of it. So through 2009 doesn't mean anything from Honda's perspective.

[Spicoli]

Great weather in the Philly area in late May ;) . New mayor will be coming in this year too.

So what American Motor Company anyway? Briggs and Stratton Motorsports (http://www.briggsracing.com/display/router.asp?docid=101244)


no way. check this outfit:

http://www.gilmour.com/

[jonovision_man]

Depends on whether they're obligated to spend a certain amount on ad space.

True, seems like there's something like that, they seem to have a pretty good presence still.

But ultimately if the IRL is staring at the prospect of having no engines, they'd probably drop any enforced sponsorship requirements in a hurry. They really don't hold any cards here...

jono

[mueber]

Everybody in ChampCar management repeat after me, "I wish Tony George all the best, but I have my own series to run right now."

All the participants repeat after me, "I am in Champ Car because it is where I want to be."

[DagoFast]

Everybody in ChampCar management repeat after me, "I wish Tony George all the best, but I have my own series to run right now."

All the participants repeat after me, "I am in Champ Car because it is where I want to be."

I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, it is great advice. It's just too bad ChampCar didn't learn it/live it 3 years ago.

As far as I'm concerned, they left the barn door was so wide open this time that it was beyond easy for yet another chunk of fans to leave. Got one foot out myself. :(

[devilmaster]

It's just too bad ChampCar didn't learn it/live it 3 years ago.

4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13 years too. ;)