Lucky dog in sportscar racing?!?

[Fio1]

:shakehead Man, you know the world is over as you know it when nascab messes up sportscar racing by adding the lucky dog award. Yes, that is right folks, the first car a lap down in Grand-Sham can now get back on the lead lap when a yellow comes out. :saywhat:

To be honest, the FIA should pull the license away from this series after this mickey mousing of worldwide racing rules. :thumdown:

[jcollins28]

Are you kidding me?

[cameraman]

:thumdown:
:shakehead
:flame:

[FCYTravis]

To be honest, the FIA should pull the license away from this series after this mickey mousing of worldwide racing rules. :thumdown:
Yeah, and why shouldn't they yank Champ Car's, too? Pushing a button on your steering wheel to get 50 extra horsepower for an arbitrarily-determined amount of time has "Mickey Mouse" written all over it. :shakehead

Yes, it's rather lame. It's supposed to "improve the show." Kinda like P2P. Will it do anything? I doubt it. Both are unnecessary ruleslawyering answers to problems that aren't really there. Go figure.

[Heeltoe]

Isn't it common in roadracing to allow ALL lapped cars between the leader and second place to be waved around the safety cars at one to go and revert back to the tail end of the lead lap, something F1 is even now doing. don't see a big deal here. has it even been done in CART at some times?

[nissan gtp]

Isn't it common in roadracing to allow ALL lapped cars between the leader and second place to be waved around the safety cars at one to go and revert back to the tail end of the lead lap, something F1 is even now doing. don't see a big deal here. has it even been done in CART at some times?

nope

[opinionated ow]

Isn't it common in roadracing to allow ALL lapped cars between the leader and second place to be waved around the safety cars at one to go and revert back to the tail end of the lead lap, something F1 is even now doing. don't see a big deal here. has it even been done in CART at some times?

when the safety car is deployed, the passenger/observer in the safety car will place an arm out the window to indicate to the cars following to overtake it. this process will stop when the race leader is the car directly behind the safety car. nobody gets their lap back in this manner.

[pchall]

Yeah, and why shouldn't they yank Champ Car's, too? Pushing a button on your steering wheel to get 50 extra horsepower for an arbitrarily-determined amount of time has "Mickey Mouse" written all over it. :shakehead


Getting a bit touchy about the increasing NASCRAPization of Grand AM?

P2P is less of a gimmick than the "lucky dog". It is just a time limited variant of the button in the late CART era that set the mixture to rich and changed the programming of the ECU to take full advantage of it. And back then the engineers did monitor the use of the button to keep an overzealous driver from killing the engine, so in effect, its use was also time-limited.

[Indy]

Yet another reason why Grand Am should go away. IT is the answer to the question no one asked, except for the Frances.

[Methanolandbrats]

Yet another reason why Grand Am should go away. IT is the answer to the question no one asked, except for the Frances.

Exactly. It's NASCAR, but it lasts longer.

[FCYTravis]

It is just a time limited variant of the button in the late CART era that set the mixture to rich and changed the programming of the ECU to take full advantage of it. And back then the engineers did monitor the use of the button to keep an overzealous driver from killing the engine, so in effect, its use was also time-limited.
Well, yeah. That's the entire point. The arbitrary enforced time limit is what makes it a Mickey Mouse contrivance. If it was a legitimate part of racing, there'd be no time limit and drivers would have to manage their use of it on their own.

Let the drivers use all the P2P they want. If they burn up their tires or blow their motor or run out of fuel too quick because they were too button-happy, that's their problem. That's the risk and the reward of racing, and that ought to be part of racecraft. Not "let's see who drains their little power bar first."

As long as the series is deciding how much of the button they can use, and not the drivers and teams, it's a Mickey Mouse contrivance.

Oh, and you all forgot to mention the atrocious new Grand-Am "must make a pit stop by 45 minutes" rule. Shades of the stupid frickin' pit windows :shakehead :gomer:

[pchall]

As long as the series is deciding how much of the button they can use, and not the drivers and teams, it's a Mickey Mouse contrivance.

Oh, and you all forgot to mention the atrocious new Grand-Am "must make a pit stop by 45 minutes" rule. Shades of the stupid frickin' pit windows :shakehead

Seems like your Mickey Mouse is my Rat Fink. :p
I'm really glad our tastes in motorsport don't converge. :cool:

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/rat-fink-cartoon.jpg

[opinionated ow]

Well, yeah. That's the entire point. The arbitrary enforced time limit is what makes it a Mickey Mouse contrivance. If it was a legitimate part of racing, there'd be no time limit and drivers would have to manage their use of it on their own.

Let the drivers use all the P2P they want. If they burn up their tires or blow their motor or run out of fuel too quick because they were too button-happy, that's their problem. That's the risk and the reward of racing, and that ought to be part of racecraft. Not "let's see who drains their little power bar first."

As long as the series is deciding how much of the button they can use, and not the drivers and teams, it's a Mickey Mouse contrivance.

Oh, and you all forgot to mention the atrocious new Grand-Am "must make a pit stop by 45 minutes" rule. Shades of the stupid frickin' pit windows :shakehead :gomer:
gimmicks and spec racing will be the death of motorsport. you are 100% correct travis.

[Fio1]

P2P was actually first used in Palmer Audi series in mid 90's.

Here's a scenario for you:

Joe-Blow rich DP driver qualifies last. Goes off the track first corner, gets stuck in gravel, causing yellow and goes lap down. Pits to fix car (takes care of 45 minute rule) and goes back out. Since, he is the only driver a lap down, he gets the lucky dog. 2 laps later, he spins and then gets lapped. 3 laps later a yellow comes out for a blown motor. No one pits because it's still too soon, but Joe-Blow does and puts 3-time Le Mans Winner Hot-Shoe in the car. Well, since Hot Shoe is the only guy a lap down, he gets the lucky dog again. 25 laps go by and a yellow comes out. Now, everyone pits except Hot-Shoe. Guess what Hot-shoe is now in the lead. Is that fair? NO!:shakehead

[Indy]

For the record, Travis, I hate the PTP, too, along with all gimmicks.

Has anyone been the "lucky dog" in NASCAR and then won the race?

[opinionated ow]

i think jeff gordon and tony stewart have both done it.
edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucky_dog

According to Jayski.com, 7 drivers have won a race after receiving a "free pass" (after the 2006 season) in NASCAR Nextel Cup alone.

1. Ryan Newman, Dover, Sept. 2003
2. Mark Martin, Dover, June 2004
3. Ryan Newman, Michigan, June 2004
4. Jeff Gordon, Martinsville, April 2005
5. Kyle Busch, Phoenix, Nov. 2005
6. Kurt Busch, Bristol, March 2006
7. Kasey Kahne, Michigan, June 2006

Most Lucky Dog Passes used in a race:

1. Kyle Busch, 5, Watkins Glen, Aug. 2006, finished 9th
2. Kevin Lepage, 4, Charlotte, Oct. 2005, finished 21st
3. Kevin Lepage, 3, Charlotte, May 2005
4. Kevin Lepage, 3, Chicago, July 2005
5. Mike Wallace, 3, Bristol, Aug. 2005
6. Dale Earnhardt Jr., 3, Bristol, Aug. 2005
7. Kyle Petty, 3, Talladega, Oct. 2005
8. Rusty Wallace, 3, Charlotte, Oct. 2005, 24th
9. Terry Labonte, 3, Bristol, March 2006, finished 27th
10. Jeff Gordon, 3 Indy, Aug 2006, finished 16th
11. David Stremme, 3 Michigan, Aug. 2006, finished 28th
12. David Ragan, 3, Martinsville, Oct. 2006, finished 25th

NOTE: Kyle Busch was the beneficiary in five consecutive caution periods at the 2006 AMD at the Glen; the beneficiary rule was not used on road course events in 2004. The first driver not on the lead lap -- no matter how many laps they are behind the leader -- gains one lap back per beneficiary.

[oddlycalm]

Too bad the Grand Am cars don't come equipped with a "push to disappear forever" button like the audience does...:D

oc

[nissan gtp]

Too bad the Grand Am cars don't come equipped with a "push to disappear forever" button like the audience does...:D

oc

dang :rofl:

[FCYTravis]

Is that fair? NO!:shakehead

Yep. It's indefensible, IMO. But will Roger listen to me? Noooo... :rofl:

[opinionated ow]

For the record, Travis, I hate the PTP, too, along with all gimmicks.

Has anyone been the "lucky dog" in NASCAR and then won the race?

what happens if a lady makes nascar...will she be called the lucky dog?:gomer:

[chop456]

Too bad the Grand Am cars don't come equipped with a "push to disappear forever" button like the audience does...:D

oc


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[Joelski]

Christ, there's enough defelection in this thread that if a car had it, you'd never have to use the steering wheel!

[Wheel-Nut]

Too bad the Grand Am cars don't come equipped with a "push to disappear forever" button like the audience does...:D

oc

:rofl: :laugh: :rofl:

[G.]

http://news.windingroad.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/rat-fink-cartoon.jpgMy favorite tshirt from when I was a young-un.:thumbup:

oc, TFF!!:rofl:

[Ankf00]

P2P is less of a gimmick than the "lucky dog". It is just a time limited variant of the button in the late CART era that set the mixture to rich and changed the programming of the ECU to take full advantage of it. And back then the engineers did monitor the use of the button to keep an overzealous driver from killing the engine, so in effect, its use was also time-limited.

that's some quality blackwhite. not to deny the GA business as a joke, but P2P is disney at best

[G.]

that's some quality blackwhite. not to deny the GA business as a joke, but P2P is disney at best
pchall is right, they have always had "overtake" buttons.

I guess that I am in the minority. I (cough) like the P2P.

There. I said it.

[Andrew Longman]

The Lucky Dog started as an answer to how to replace racing back to the yellow to get a lap back when they (intelligently) froze the field at a yellow. The tradition of somehow getting a lap back makes some sense or at least has some history in stock car racing so I see their motivation.

Applying it to road racing makes no sense.

[Rogue Leader]

Applying it to road racing makes no sense.


I couldn't agree more.... Especially in a road race you are now handing a car that had no chance of winning due to a mistake or whatnot a chance by basically dumb luck. This is gonna work great :rolleyes: