Floyd Landis arbitration

[RichK]

Wow! Quite a day in Malibu:

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/12271.0.html

[cameraman]

Damn, if looks could kill.....

http://images.velonews.com/images/news/12271.18611.t.jpg

[Ankf00]

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/05/18/in-cycling-a-race-to-the-bottom/

a comment that Mr. Landis apparently posted on a cycling web site suggests that he was thinking along the same lines as his manager:
“If he [LeMond] ever opens his mouth again and the word Floyd comes out, I will tell you all some things that you will wish you didn’t know and, unfortunately, I will have entered the race to the bottom which is now in progress.”


:shakehead

[oddlycalm]

Weird how LeMond pops up any time there are allegations pointed at other Americans that have won the Tour.

oc

[Ankf00]

I used to think that, but at this point I think LeMond's the only American not full of it...

the sport's dead on this side of the pond, that's for sure.

Tour de Georgia, Tour de California, Tour de The Young and the Restless or some such.

[RichK]

LeMond is no angel. It pains me to say that; he was a real sports hero to me when I started racing bikes. But at least he raced clean (as far as we know).

Pro cycling in the US will always be strong, IMO, it just won't have the big dollar sponsors for awhile - which might be a good thing.

[TrueBrit]

Weird how LeMond pops up any time there are allegations pointed at other Americans that have won the Tour.

oc


I was thinking a long the same lines....he never seems to shy away from putting the boot in whenever doubts come up about successful pedalling Yanks other than himself...

[Andrew Longman]

Damn, if looks could kill.....

http://images.velonews.com/images/news/12271.18611.t.jpg

Is that roid rage? ;)

Landis was such a good story... for about a day.

He's said it himself. Its a race to the bottom. The French are so f'd up on running this sport, but at this point Landis and the French deserve each other.

[Andrew Longman]

I was thinking a long the same lines....he never seems to shy away from putting the boot in whenever doubts come up about successful pedalling Yanks other than himself...

A cycling friend of mine believe there is more than a little envy involved. Granted until Armstrong came a long LeMond was a household name. Now I bet most Americans forget there was a great Yank TdF winner before him and/or can't remember his name.

[extramundane]

Weird how LeMond pops up any time there are allegations pointed at other Americans that have won the Tour.

oc

Wait 'til Lance has a more successful FF2000 career. That'll really get him some TV time...

[coolhand]

If LeMond was telling me about sexual abuse on the phone I would have hung up.

[Kahauna Dreamer]

LeMond is no angel. It pains me to say that; he was a real sports hero to me when I started racing bikes. But at least he raced clean (as far as we know).

Pro cycling in the US will always be strong, IMO, it just won't have the big dollar sponsors for awhile - which might be a good thing.

It's always going to be huge here in the Bay Area, particularly San Francisco, Berkeley and Marin County.

[coolhand]

It's always going to be huge here in the Bay Area, particularly San Francisco, Berkeley and Marin County.

Why is it any bigger here then other areas? critical mass crap?

[Ankf00]

Why is it any bigger here then other areas? critical mass crap?

it's big there b/c of the type of people that live there, the quality of roads/rides, the weather, the laws, and the attitude of the drivers, or rather, the lack thereof.

Mountain biking was born out in Marin, too. Keith Bontrager, Gary Fischer, Tom Ritchey...



...oh, and yea, critical mass rocks. :cool:

[coolhand]

...oh, and yea, critical mass rocks. :cool:

Obviously you have not seem the poor innocent people from out of town who knew nothing about it get their minivans trashed while their children are screaming inside. All because they had the audacity to drive a minivan in chinatown.

It is times like these when I wish police Departments allowed good citizens to moonlight as riot cops. LAPD has their **** together :cool:

[Ankf00]

Obviously you haven't dealt with rednecks in F-250's blowing by 2 inches away from your body at a 40+mph speed differential on a wide open country road with plenty of room, while they throw a beer can out the window. But keep listening to that nashville pop, definitely solidifies the Young Ronald Reagans of America cred. :gomer:

[coolhand]

Obviously you haven't dealt with rednecks in F-250's blowing by 2 inches away from your body at a 40+mph speed differential on a wide open country road with plenty of room, while they throw a beer can out the window. But keep listening to that nashville pop, definitely solidifies the Young Ronald Reagans of America cred. :gomer:

And that is the same as being vandalized for driving a vehicle to drive your kids to soccer practice? If throwing beer cans at random people is the best case of violence and discrimination then you win :tony: It is not like I said that behavior "rocks" or anything

[Ankf00]

didn't realize people drove through Chinatown to get to soccer practice. :gomer:

we both know that violent acts during critical mass are not common at all.

we both know that *******s trying to **** with roadies on country roads is pretty common.

and yes, I'd say that being run by a car going 60+ while cycling is a tad more serious, being life threatening and all, than simple vandalism.

[coolhand]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2007/04/04/BAGF7P12RN23.DTL

here is the story, this has happened before

[nrc]

we both know that *******s trying to **** with roadies on country roads is pretty common.

Why is it that "we both know" is so often followed by something we don't both know or even something just completely made up?

"Cyclist Rights" advocates are for the most part hypocrites. If every cyclist who actually obeys traffic laws got a free pass into heaven there'd still be plenty of room at bike rack outside the Pearly Gates.

[Ankf00]

Why is it that "we both know" is so often followed by something we don't both know or even something just completely made up?

"Cyclist Rights" advocates are for the most part hypocrites. If every cyclist who actually obeys traffic laws got a free pass into heaven there'd still be plenty of room at bike rack outside the Pearly Gates.

there's no shortage of idiotic riders, however comparing the percentage of bad drivers to them, the cyclists don't even rate.

blowing through red lights, racing yellows, rolling stops, not using the turn signal, cutting across 2-3 lanes at once, cutting people off, tailgating, not checking mirrors before turning, 80mph schumacher slalom exercises on the interestate, etc.

complaints about inconsiderate cyclists usually fail to recognize that cyclists generally are motorists as well. the converse isn't true. motorists are driving 3500# steel cages, cyclists can't do much other than dent a fender. the 2 biggest causes of cyclist/motorist incidents are vehicles turning right into a cyclist, and the opening of a door.

as coolhand's link states:

Sgt. Ed Callejas -- the lead cop on the scene and a veteran of Critical Mass rides since their inception -- said he'd never seen anything like it before.

getting buzzed by a pickup a few inches from your body while a passenger throws a coke or beer out the window is more common than you would think.



Landis' version from Velonews

Landis said he decided to call LeMond after reading that he had said Landis should admit his guilt and try to clean up cycling.

"I had looked up to him," Landis said. "Not as a hero, but he won the Tour and I knew what it took. I wanted to see if he'd talk to me if he had something to say."

After convincing LeMond that the call was not a prank, Landis said, the pair had a lengthy conversation.

"He said he knew Lance [Armstrong] doped and he said he was sure that I doped because he'd seen results," Landis said. "I told him I didn't do it and that it wouldn't make sense to admit something I didn't do, and if I did what positive outcome would there be?"

From there, according to Landis, the conversation turned to LeMond's past, and his tale of being sexually abused as a child.

"I was traumatized. I didn't know what to say when he told me," said Landis. "I was glad to talk but couldn't possibly relate. I told him I was sorry and that he was free to call me anytime."

Landis said he forgot about the incident until November, when he read stories quoting LeMond as having said that Landis had confessed to him during the aforementioned phone call.

That led to the now-infamous Internet posting where Landis wrote in part that, "If LeMond ever opens his mouth again and the word Floyd comes out, I will tell you all some things that you will wish you didn't know and unfortunately I will have entered the race to the bottom which is now in progress."

That brought another phone call, this time from LeMond to Landis.

"I didn't want to talk again and asked him what he wanted. He wasn't happy," recalled Landis. "What I wrote [on the Internet] wasn't wise. I'm sorry that I alluded to [what happened in his childhood], but he said I'm writing a book, so I could say whatever I wanted to. Then I tried to clarify that I did not admit to using testosterone, but he said he remembered differently. I said that's not what happened, but no matter what I would not divulge [his secret] to the public."

The pair of Tour champions' paths did not cross again until Thursday.




According to Landis, the call took place while he, Geoghegan and other members of the Landis entourage were having dinner at their hotel.

"It was a pretty large room, as big this courtroom," Landis testified. "We weren't sitting right next to each other."

Landis said he didn't know Geoghegan was going to make the call, and that he didn't understand what had happened until he followed his business manager up to his hotel room and overheard him on the phone with LeMond.

The full timeline of events was never made precisely clear. But the impression was that Geoghegan first called LeMond during dinner and only left the table after LeMond called back several times. Landis said he told Geoghegan they needed to talk to [lead defense attorney] Maurice [Suh] right away, but he wasn't at the hotel.

When exactly Landis told Geoghegan or anyone else about LeMond's secret was unclear.



:saywhat:

[Wheel-Nut]

. . .
as coolhand's link states:


getting buzzed by a pickup a few inches from your body while a passenger throws a coke or beer out the window is more common than you would think.





I've had both happen to me, the getting buzzed part more than once. In all incidents, "Bubba" never wants to turn around and discuss what might be on his mind.

[cameraman]

You can be sure that any cyclist around here, especially the ones who feel the need to wear team gear and travel in packs, will blow every stop sign, every light and otherwise violate every possible traffic law. Flip the coin and cars kill cyclists around here every month or so.

When I'm riding I hate the idiot drivers in the town.
When I'm driving I hate the idiot cyclists in the town.

What's any of this got to do with Floyd?

[Wheel-Nut]

What's any of this got to do with Floyd?

Floyd's an idiot.

[Ankf00]

With Basso offering to cooperate with the Puerto investigation, then publicly stating the next day in Italy that he never doped even though he's cooperating, then refusing to cooperate the next week, why would any sane person believe anything uttered by any ProTour rider?


When I'm riding I hate the idiot drivers in the town.
When I'm driving I hate the idiot cyclists in the town.
around here things have been smooooth so far, never felt crowded riding my fullie on a mtn highway (~50mph vehicle avg) to get to a high country loop, never felt impeded by roadies climbing steep grades on mtn passes when I'm driving to those loops

[Wheel-Nut]

Did you move to CO?

[Ankf00]

CO has less diversity than a klan rally. No way. :thumdown:

:gomer:

[Wheel-Nut]

around here things have been smooooth so far, never felt crowded riding my fullie on a mtn highway (~50mph vehicle avg) to get to a high country loop, never felt impeded by roadies climbing steep grades on mtn passes when I'm driving to those loops

Leakey?

[Ankf00]

Leakey?

Leakey might be a bit boring, I'll take CO, thanks :D

the ride up:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/Ankf00/untitled3.jpg

trail's end:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v612/Ankf00/untitled.jpg

[Brian_R]

If you need the play-by-play of the hearing, you can check out http://trustbut.blogspot.com/.

Yesterday's testimony pretty much surmised the inherent problems with that French lab, basically they have no clue how to do anything scientifically accurate there.

It's a shame that they can repetitively bungle tests, leaks of information, run tests on OS/2 software!, "accidentally delete" subpoenaed data, and be mismanaged for upwards of a decade, perhaps more, and still be considered relevant.

[oddlycalm]

"He said he knew Lance [Armstrong] doped and he said he was sure that I doped because he'd seen results," LeMond is clearly a very disturbed person and his efforts to insert himself into every cycling story he can smacks of desperation as do his transparent efforts to use the current proceeding to pimp his book. Just another bitter "used to be" that can't just enjoy his own memories and triumphs.

Regarding that bordello of a lab, if the Tour organizers continue to use it and WADA doesn't de-certify it they deserve what they get.

oc

[coolhand]

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i_team&id=5329449

Just today, ABC 7 news, cyclists are most often at fault, are overly aggressive and often don't obey traffic rules. See Video.

[Ankf00]

In Texas, state troopers only receive an accident report if there is enough damage to the vehicle to warrant it, so incidents are underreported to begin with.

Austin PD's numbers don't jive with CHP's. And seriously, local news?

NYPD faulting cyclists incorrectly. http://www.rightofway.org/research/cyclists.pdf

furthermore, there is no distinction between actual cyclists, and kids riding around the neighborhood/town, these don't constitute the urban commuter or country road riders.

[Wheel-Nut]

I've heard more than once from the local law enforcment officer, "y'all, (us cyclist), don't belong out on the roads!"

[KLang]

Out in the boonies where I live is a popular area for cyclists. Most don't seem to pay attention to the rules of the road. Combine that with the terrible drivers around Houston and I'm surprised I don't see the cyclists splattered on the road more frequently.

The wife and I do ride but only within our sub-division which in isn't always that safe. Earlier this week my wife almost got run down by one of our neighbors going the wrong way around a traffic circle. :shakehead

[Methanolandbrats]

Around here there is the occasional redneck brushing back a biker on a rural road. Same thing used to happen to me when I ran country roads. However 99% of bike/auto problems are caused by bikers riding in packs and running stop signs, clogging up commuter roads at rush hour by using a whole lane while riding 15 mph, doing track stands at intersections and leaning on cars, racing around a lake on a bike path also shared by walkers, runners, kids, skateboarders, etc..... I actually saw a lycra clad warrior take out an old lady who was walking her dog when he tried to squeeze by at over 20 mph. When I was teaching my kids to ride, we had a couple close calls when morons would yell "on your left" and blow by a wobbling five year old. In general, bikers are self-absorbed, selfish, clueless *********s. This is especially true when they are in packs.

[Ankf00]

I've heard more than once from the local law enforcment officer, "y'all, (us cyclist), don't belong out on the roads!"

it's because you're spandex wearing nancies ;)

meth: I've been run over by a couple of packs of lycra warriors before, but most of the ones I see putting themselves in harm are those who dont ride frequently, kids who just got their xmas present, or folks with their fam, riding at night w/ no lights or reflective clothing, riding wrongway on singletrack and one way paved trails, etc. The group rides I do w/ cycling orgs have never been a problem, but I suppose that's why we're in a cycling org, we're actually informed...

[G.]

Since the hijack is complete, I'll add to it.

On my commute home, the one main road heading to my far-flung burbs has enough traffic that it's like a long train. Car-after-car-after-car, running about 55-60 mph through the wooded countryside. One Wednesdays, this group of riders (whom other riders consider to be a bunch of idiots) will always cross this road blowing through the stopsigns. They seem to enjoy cheating death, and causing auto accidents.

The first time I saw this, I was completely dumbfounded. I am not exaggerating. Cars running 55-60 mph with about 2-3 car-lengths between them, and bikes trying to thread the needle, blowing their stopsign. They don't even appear to be looking left or right.

Even my special ed kids know better than this.:shakehead

[RichK]

I'm surprised to hear the Texas stories, but then most of you guys live in urban areas. I spent 1.5 years in College Station, riding 300 miles/week, and the drivers out in the rural areas were the most courteous I've encountered.

Probably 3X per ride, I'd get a wave from a pickup driver.

[Ankf00]

that's cuz you went to fish camp, you were already one of them... ;)

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2881107

^^More confessions. I just don't believe there's a soul on ProTour who isn't doping in some fashion.

[RichK]

that's cuz you went to fish camp, you were already one of them... ;)


Ah, but I didn't! I was only there for grad school, so I never got indoctrinated. You should have seen me - Birkenstocks, riding a nancy-boy roadbike to class, etc. :laugh:

[Brian_R]

http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=i_team&id=5329449

Just today, ABC 7 news, cyclists are most often at fault, are overly aggressive and often don't obey traffic rules. See Video.

San Francisco would be an "outlier" due to those Critical Mass glorified running of the bulls rides they do every month. A few thousand cyclists just running together with no preset path, and although "not official" have their own police motorcycle escort.

[Wheel-Nut]

Out in the boonies where I live is a popular area for cyclists. Most don't seem to pay attention to the rules of the road. Combine that with the terrible drivers around Houston and I'm surprised I don't see the cyclists splattered on the road more frequently.



Lots of clubs start from Katy Mills and West Oaks and ride out west to Fulshear.

[Wheel-Nut]

it's because you're spandex wearing nancies ;)

...

:saywhat: :)

[Wheel-Nut]

I'm surprised to hear the Texas stories, but then most of you guys live in urban areas. I spent 1.5 years in College Station, riding 300 miles/week, and the drivers out in the rural areas were the most courteous I've encountered.

Probably 3X per ride, I'd get a wave from a pickup driver.

how long ago was this? You wouldn't recognize the area now!

[KLang]

Lots of clubs start from Katy Mills and West Oaks and ride out west to Fulshear.

There are quite a few that park at the Fulshear City hall and start from there. Not sure where they go but most weekends we've got lots of cyclists out here.

[RichK]

how long ago was this? You wouldn't recognize the area now!

1991-1992

[coolhand]

Well if your on a bike you naturally get tired and don't want to slow down or stop because of lost momentum.

So it is easy for them to blow by people on foot or ignore traffic rules like STOP signs

[coolhand]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/cycling/news/story?id=2881107

^^More confessions. I just don't believe there's a soul on ProTour who isn't doping in some fashion.

When I drive in my truck past lycra warriors I can yell now "drug abuser"

[Ankf00]

Well if your on a bike you naturally get tired and don't want to slow down or stop because of lost momentum.

So it is easy for them to blow by people on foot or ignore traffic rules like STOP signs

roadies tend to ride continuous roads that don't have stop signs, it's slightly conducive to the whole "road ride" thing. :gomer:

california stops, ftw

[Wheel-Nut]

1991-1992

Yes, you really wouldn't recognize the place.

[cameraman]

roadies tend to ride continuous roads that don't have stop signs, it's slightly conducive to the whole "road ride" thing.

Unless they happen to live in urban cities and then they ride on regular roads with the traffic.:gomer:

[Ankf00]

kind of hard to get excercise in on a crowded road with stop lights/signs every 200 yards

commuters != roadies, my roomies roll through stops in the neighborhood

[FTG]

LeMond is clearly a very disturbed person and his efforts to insert himself into every cycling story he can smacks of desperation as do his transparent efforts to use the current proceeding to pimp his book. Just another bitter "used to be" that can't just enjoy his own memories and triumphs.

Regarding that bordello of a lab, if the Tour organizers continue to use it and WADA doesn't de-certify it they deserve what they get.

oc

The OJ defense. It works even better if you say the techies are a bunch of racist American haters.

[EDwardo]

I gave up cycling about 15 years ago due to one too many brushes with death.
Staying to the far side of lanes, obeying traffic laws, and striving to not irritate drivers didn't work for me. I still was frequently forced to dodge objects tossed at me, endure rage filled maniacs who felt I deserved a stream of profanity and a brush by. I even had a gun pointed at me once.

So now I endure daily countless streams of cars, SUV's, and trucks driving like maniacs speeding, weaving, tailgating, cutting me off, etc, many with a cellphone stuck in their ear. But now I have steel and airbags for protection.

As for Landis, the French test lab is widely considered inept, biased, and incompetent. A cadre of agenda driven cycling officials partnered with the same lab and spent years hounding Armstrong, convinced he must be cheating but never finding a shred of evidence. Landis is just their latest victim.

[Ankf00]

while I agree the lab is highly unprofessional, which cyclists have been caught via testing methods other than Tyler Hamilton & Floyd Landis?

Basso, Ulrich, Vinokurov, etc. have all been implicated through Puerto related matters, they all took the same tests everyone else did and passed w/ flying colors

[G.]

OK, back OT: 1996 TdF winner Bjarne Riis of Denmark admits using EPO, HGH and cortizone. During his win.

Yep, all of 'em do it.

(source: front page of Chicago Tribune - the paper version)

[EDwardo]

while I agree the lab is highly unprofessional, which cyclists have been caught via testing methods other than Tyler Hamilton & Floyd Landis?

Basso, Ulrich, Vinokurov, etc. have all been implicated through Puerto related matters, they all took the same tests everyone else did and passed w/ flying colors

It's a bit more complicated than that. The Spanish doping scandal centered on a Dr. Fuentes. A raid of his residence found a notebook with dozens of code names for the cyclists implicated. Based on this list, without any tests or other evidence, 56 riders, including 13 who were to compete in the Tour, were suspended and dropped from their teams. Tour rules mandate such suspensions.
Ulrich and Basso were later cleared of all allegations. The judge ruled that both Ullrich and Basso were put under investigation without proof of involvement. Basso's case was reopened in April 2007 by the Italian Olympic Committee and has been suspended again.
Landis' case is entirely different. As a race frontrunner, he was almost certainly to be tested. Synthetic testosterone wouldn't escape detection in testing, as the Spanish doping scheme was designed to do. I have read statements by several leading sports physicians stating that administering testosterone would have had zero short term benefit for a cyclist. It couldn't possibly account for his amazing comeback. I find it hard to believe that Landis and his team doctors would have done something so stupid and producing zero benefit by doing so.
To me, these allegations have a very bad smell.

[Ankf00]

.

[Ankf00]

Ulrich and Basso were later cleared of all allegations. The judge ruled that both Ullrich and Basso were put under investigation without proof of involvement. Basso's case was reopened in April 2007 by the Italian Olympic Committee and has been suspended again.

the judge ruled that despite his beliefs that doping occured, spanish anti-doping legislation was enacted after the doping incidents allegedly occured.

Ulrich's DNA matched one of the blood bags ffs. Basso admitted his own involvement last week before reneging once his sponsors and other team managers got to him.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2007-03-12-spain-doping-case_N.htm


MADRID, Spain (AP) — A Spanish judge dropped the Operation Puerto investigation into doping in cycling without issuing indictments.

Investigative magistrate Antonio Serrano said he could not charge anyone because Spain's new doping law was not in force when the case broke in May.

...

In his 21-page ruling, Serrano said doping allegations against physician Eufemiano Fuentes, head coach Manolo Saiz and six other suspects "do not constitute a criminal infraction."

Serrano said that although the practice of blood doping did take place, there was no evidence it harmed the riders' health. That is the requirement under previous Spanish legislation for charges to be filed against someone who administers doping substances to an athlete.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/cycling/2007-04-09-54290961_x.htm

The German cyclist, in a statement posted Sunday on his Web site, called reports "partially manipulated" and designed to destroy his reputation.

Ullrich retired from cycling in February, 10 months after his name surfaced in Operation Puerto, which led to the 1997 Tour de France champion being excluded from last year's race. He has denied using any banned substances.

"I have a clear conscience and the latest events and reports haven't changed that a bit," Ullrich said. "In my whole career I have never lied or used anyone and I can't admit to a mistake when there is no mistake."

Several cycling teams also called for DNA samples of the cyclists linked to Operation Puerto to be matched with the blood bags seized last May at a Madrid Clinic.

...

German prosecutors had Spanish authorities turn over the blood bags to compare with Ullrich's saliva sample after fraud charges were filed by a professor. Doping isn't illegal in Germany.

Last week, German prosecutors ruled out manipulation of the blood bags linked to Ullrich, saying they hope to file charges against him by the end of the year.

The Bonn prosecutor leading the investigation, Fred Apostel, said Monday his office was waiting for Swiss authorities to turn over results from a search of Ullrich's residence last year.

[G.]

busted (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070920/ap_on_sp_ot/cyc_landis_decision)


Panel: Landis guilty of doping By EDDIE PELLS, AP National Writer
8 minutes ago


PARIS - Floyd Landis lost his expensive and explosive doping case Thursday when the arbitrators upheld the results of a test that showed the 2006 Tour de France champion used synthetic testosterone to fuel his spectacular comeback victory, The Associated Press has learned.


The decision, handed down nearly four months after a bizarre and bitterly fought hearing, leaves Landis with only one more outlet to possibly salvage his title — an appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport.

[oddlycalm]

So in the end we get a 2-1 arbitration ruling that is clear as mud. :thumdown:

The panel had the following to say about the Chatenay-Malabry lab:

Although the panel rejected Landis' argument of a "conspiracy" at the, it did find areas of concern. They dealt with chain of command in controlling the urine sample, the way the tests were run on the machine, the way the machine was prepared and the "forensic corrections" done on the lab paperwork.

"... the Panel finds that the practises of the Lab in training its employees appears to lack the vigor the Panel would expect in the circumstances given the enormous consequences to athletes" of an adverse analytical finding, the decision said.
I'm 100% in favor of ridding sports of dopers, but how do you do that when the lab like Chatenay-Malabry doesn't follow proper procedure? What about when they leak rumors and innuendo about specific athletes, whose names they should not even be able to associate with control numbers, to the press?

I'm also disgusted by the behavior of WADA's CEO Dick Pound who felt ok about holding forth in the press prior to the actual results being available.

oc

[Andrew Longman]

This thing is screwed up beyond recognition.

I'm not a a Landis fan and don't take pride that an American won, but it seems the most important reason Armstrong won so many times is he always had an army of lawyers clearing his field and watching his back.

The labs can't follow procedure and whether they are biased or not they act as if they are. They simply don't do what is needed to keep their credibility (as do the cyclists including Landis).

The other thing that doesn't support the lab is from the "experts" I've heard, testosterone, while banned, would not provide a benefit during the race. It simply would not have given him the boost he sought for that leg. Other drugs would have, but testosterone is yypically used during training to help with healing and recovery.

But all of sport needs to think this through. I heard a great interview with ethicist who described three scenarios.

Cyclist A trains at high altitude and greatly raises his red cell count and oxygen carrying capacity.

Cyclist B sleeps in a hyperbarric (sp?) chamber and greatly raises his red cell count and oxygen carrying capacity.

Cyclist C centrifuges his blood and reinjects red blood cells and greatly raises his red cell count and oxygen carrying capacity.

Who's cheating? It depends. If you are worried about keeping a level playing field then poor athletes from poor nations would be at a disadvantage if you allow hyperbollic chambers. And sea level countries would be at a disadvantage if you allow high altitude training, but what about athletes that live at altitude already?

Should golfers with high blood pressure be banned from competition because beta blockers commonly used for treatment also has a calming effect, reducing jitters and the ipps (or whatever it called)?

Should HGH be allowed to help professional athletes recover from injuries when it is accepted as effective treatment?

The problem is there is not one set of standards worldwide and there is not agreement on what testing is trying to achieve and/or avoid. Meanwhile, it seems the French lab and the association is only trying to make itself look good.

[Brian_R]

I'm surprised there hasn't been a monetary suit against the lab. Definitely a sad day for cycling, and makes you think who's worse, baseball's "anti-drug" program or cycling's overtly sloppy procedures.

[RichK]

it seems the most important reason Armstrong won so many times is he always had an army of lawyers clearing his field and watching his back.


Armstrong never tested positive.

[Ankf00]

Armstrong never tested positive.

Neither did Ulrich or Basso

[Andrew Longman]

Armstrong never tested positive.

I don't know much about it personally, but a friend of mine who follows cycling closely said that Lance and his lawyers were very agressive and proactive in how testing was handled and threats made to the lab about leaking crap to the media.

IIRC it was only after he retired that they started to talk smack about him and he fired back.

[cameraman]

Stick a fork in it.


The costly legal battle by the cyclist Floyd Landis to recover his title as the winner of the 2006 Tour de France came to an apparent end on Monday. The Court of Arbitration for Sport, the final international appeals body, upheld a United States Anti-Doping Agency panel’s decision that synthetic testosterone had played a role in Landis’s victory.

The New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/sports/othersports/01cycling.html?em&ex=1214971200&en=6758cfdb1d4f86ce&ei=5087%0A)

[cameraman]

Seems I spoke too soon.:shakehead


A French judge has issued an international arrest warrant for U.S. cyclist Floyd Landis in connection with a case of data hacking at a doping laboratory, France's anti-doping chief said Monday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/sports/cycling/16landis.html

So the charge is that Landis' coach email the French lab inserting a trojan horse into the labs computers. Then they stole data, changed it to discredit the lab, then emailed it to the media.:saywhat:

[dando]

Seems I spoke too soon.:shakehead



http://www.nytimes.com/2010/02/16/sports/cycling/16landis.html

So the charge is that Landis' coach email the French lab inserting a trojan horse into the labs computers. Then they stole data, changed it to discredit the lab, then emailed it to the media.:saywhat:

That's just nuts. :eek:

-Kevin

[Boatdesigner]

If they had changed the data, wouldn't they change it to something that would have won in arbitration? Some of the computers in that lab are still running OS2, not exactly up to date!:rofl: Maybe they don't have AV or firewalls for OS2!

[Methanolandbrats]

The French **** up anything they touch...ACO, FIA, bike riding,....they're the ones who should be banned from everything.

[indyfan31]

Good grief, they give a whole new definition to the word BITTER.

[oddlycalm]

Good grief, they give a whole new definition to the word BITTER.
Yup, which again raises the questions about their agenda.

oc

[coolhand]

Pulling that stunt off would require a lot of skill in computer networking and exactly how the french lab handles and logs its chemistry data. I doubt that a cycling coach did this alone

[pchall]

The French are so f'd up on running this sport, but at this point Landis and the French deserve each other.

What sport aren't the French screwing up these days?

[oddlycalm]

I doubt that a cycling coach did this alone
I seriously doubt it was ever done at all. The lab got excrement on it's face at a public hearing and is trying to explain it all away and hang on to the very lucrative TdF contract. Much more likely is a lab employee with a conscience supplied the internal docs Landis used in the hearing.


oc

[chop456]

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/gameon/post/2010/05/floyd-landis-admits-doping-accuses-lance-armstrong/1

[emjaya]

Landis told ESPN.com that he has no documentation to prove most of his claims.

:irked:

[TrueBrit]

The French **** up anything they touch...ACO, FIA, bike riding,....they're the ones who should be banned from everything.

Except for when they're right....;)

[Don Quixote]

I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that there is doping going on in this establishment!

[Indy]

Well, I am shocked and appalled.

Thank God I still have baseball, where there is some integrity left in sport.

[grungex]

Subtle, very subtle...

[oddlycalm]

First the Landis news then Armstrong does a face plant and crashes out of the Tour of Cali. For those that like their pain in concentrated doses....

In the 4yrs since Landis was DQ'd the sport has moved on to the Biological Passport (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biological_passport) that maps athlete physiology over time instead of trying to detect each new doping innovation, something no other professional sport has done.

oc

[EDwardo]

... Landis is just their latest victim.

Never mind.

[BarillaGirl]

I am shocked, shocked I tell you, that there is doping going on in this establishment!

:rofl::rofl::rofl: