View Full Version : Cleveland GP ads
Sean O'Gorman
05-27-07, 09:16 PM
During the Indy 500:
"portions of today's broadcast of the Indy 500 are sponsored locally by the Grand Prix of Cleveland"
cue commercial that shows some Champ Cars (a couple clips are of Nigel Mansell), then mentions beach volleyball, motocross, and street warriors drag racing (but shows drifting). :saywhat:
During Indians games:
similar ad, but more emphasis on the beach volleyball.
Radio ad on local alt rock station:
about 5 seconds mentioning the race, the rest was about the Ms. Grand Prix contest.
No mentions of any drivers or anything that would appeal to race fans. But yeah, despite this, sounds like Champ Car is still a healthy product to promote. :mad:
greenie
05-27-07, 10:24 PM
What product dood?
There's no there, there.
My advice is to go to races and have fun while it lasts. The "series" is a complete joke.
No mentions of any drivers or anything that would appeal to race fans. But yeah, despite this, sounds like Champ Car is still a healthy product to promote. :mad:
Racing fans already know anything you could tell them in a commercial. Why pay money for a commercial and use it to tell 1% of the population what they already know?
The racing at Las Vegas and Long Beach was good.
greenie
05-28-07, 12:04 AM
The racing at Las Vegas and Long Beach was good.
I agree - and I was there in person for both.
Drag IMO is that there is no urgency about the series being anything but a scattered bunch of events - some of which may not happen as scheduled. There's no series to speak of. I was as hardcore as anyone and I'm almost ambivalent to the whole deal anymore.
It's a shame.
pkvracing12
05-28-07, 12:22 AM
Dont care about the advertisment I will be there anyways!
Racing fans already know anything you could tell them in a commercial. Why pay money for a commercial and use it to tell 1% of the population what they already know?
Because, obviously, posters on the net know more about ads than people who create ads for a living.
Sean O'Gorman
05-28-07, 10:09 AM
Because, obviously, posters on the net know more about ads than people who create ads for a living.
In this case, yes. Got anything else, smartass?
What else are they going to show?
Aside from a couple of drivers who have regular rides, there's no way of knowing who will be driving what by the time that race rolls around.
Because, obviously, posters on the net know more about ads than people who create ads for a living.
I dunno, someone who studied marketing might know a thing or two, just a wild ass assumption, you know...
Insomniac
05-28-07, 12:21 PM
I'd assume competent advertisng/marketing people are creating these ads. It's sad that to get people in seats they highlight everything besides what's supposed to be the main attraction. After all, their goal with these ads isn't to get less people to show up.
I dunno, someone who studied marketing might know a thing or two, just a wild ass assumption, you know...
Someone might.
O'Gorman doesn't. The longest word in "three day festival of speed" is 7 letters, yet the entire concept appears to be over his head.
Got anything else, smartass?
You tell me.
Sean O'Gorman
05-28-07, 12:27 PM
Someone might.
O'Gorman doesn't. The longest word in "three day festival of speed" is 7 letters, yet the entire concept appears to be over his head.
The concept has been failing for years, yet you continue to defend it? Seems like you haven't grasped the concept of a bad marketing idea yet.
In this case, yes. Got anything else, smartass?
You need to adjust your attitude.
The concept has been failing for years, yet you continue to defend it? Seems like you haven't grasped the concept of a bad marketing idea yet.
The concept hasn't failed. Sometimes the execution fails. Sometimes the marketing fails. It's the basis for every successful event that Champ car has right now. The rest are struggling.
You conveniently ignored my point in favor of name calling. You want to try again?
What marketing genius taught you that it's a good idea to target a niche audience with a broad ad? Wouldn't it be better to target the broad audience with such an ad? There's nothing you can really tell the niche audience they don't already know.
Nobody here is arguing that Champ Car's product is everything it should be. The question is how to get it there without bankrupting the company.
Sean O'Gorman
05-28-07, 01:34 PM
You conveniently ignored my point in favor of name calling.
You made a point in favor of name calling? I must've missed that one. I'd love it if the mods let me insult people. ;)
Nobody here is arguing that Champ Car's product is everything it should be. The question is how to get it there without bankrupting the company.
The answer to that question is to go back to the sport's roots, which is being a primarily midwestern based series running on various types of courses. When they moved away from that the series lost its soul and thus its fanbase, and anyone who argues otherwise is defending a failing business model.
You made a point in favor of name calling? I must've missed that one.
you suck at teh engrish :gomer:
Sean O'Gorman
05-28-07, 01:48 PM
you suck at teh sarcasm
Insomniac
05-28-07, 02:26 PM
The answer to that question is to go back to the sport's roots, which is being a primarily midwestern based series running on various types of courses. When they moved away from that the series lost its soul and thus its fanbase, and anyone who argues otherwise is defending a failing business model.
I don't think anyone has the answer to that question. It would be nice if it was as simple as that. I know it's getting down to a chicken/egg argument if they changed because people didn't care or people didn't care because they changed.
I don't think anyone has the answer to that question. It would be nice if it was as simple as that. I know it's getting down to a chicken/egg argument if they changed because people didn't care or people didn't care because they changed.
More like people didn't care because they didn't change. Hanging on to unification with TG and at the same time, setting up MPH, which turned out to be just a money grab for the owners while they did nothing to chart a new course away from Indy pretty much did it. By the time Toyota and Honda said goodbye in 2002 it was all over but how to disassemble the thing so someone got something out of the remains. Pook came along 7 years too late to save that train wreck.
If you think what's left now will ever get beyond the stage it's been in since 2004 is doing nothing but wishful thinking.
At one time Indy was at the core of Champcar racing.
Then, when Indy was gone, it was still the fans and a core group of strongly supported races.
Now there's nothing but some events that have drifting, beach volleyball contests, beer tents, strolling mimes and oh, a race thrown in. The broad audience is showing up for an event, not so much a race. How you build a fanbase from that is beyond me especially when you change the location of events every few years.
The concept has been failing for years,
One of the fundamental ways to achieve success in the business world is to bring your product to the people. Companies around the world are finding that one of the best ways to do that, is to have their product involved with the Champ Car World Series.
Boasting some of the strongest attendance numbers in all of sports, the Champ Car World Series is rapidly becoming a showcase for corporations to reach more than 150,000 fans per weekend. From recent events in Portland and Cleveland through upcoming races in Toronto and San Jose, corporate and sponsor support is increasing weekly for events and teams as well as for the Bridgestone Presents The Champ Car World Series Powered by Ford itself.
"We have been able to build on unprecedented fan support, and through the hard work of our promoter group, we have been able to provide many opportunities for the corporate community ," said Executive Vice-President of Sales and Marketing Will Wilson. "Champ Car and its three-day Festivals of Speed provide one of the most dynamic product platforms in sports and companies are finding great value in them."
Led by presenting sponsors Bridgestone and Ford, series partners McDonald's and Sherwin-Williams have taken steps to increase their involvement in the series, while team sponsors such as CDW, Bell Micro Products, Gulfstream, Aussie Vineyards, Mi-Jack, Tide and Muermans have brought a fresh approach to corporate involvement in the series.
The event promoters have followed suit, providing local corporations with increased value for their sponsorship dollars. The corporate interest has given events new chances for growth, allowing them to provide a fresh, exciting atmosphere for race fans that extends beyond the race. Concerts with national recording artists, pageants, interactive displays contribute to the festival feel that yields even more value for sponsors.
During the Portland weekend, Red Bull sponsored 12 events in downtown Portland surrounding the race while Chevron developed an innovative program featuring driver trading cards. Cleveland's race weekend attracted 22 sponsors up nearly 50 percent from the year before, and included a Saturday ticket package with Coca-Cola that led to the highest single-day ticket sales in the 25-year history of the Cleveland event.
San Jose has attracted nearly 50 corporate sponsors for the 2006 event including such high-profile companies as Bud Light, Toyota, FedEx, Taylor Woodrow Homes and Allstate Insurance. Fans attending the July 7-9 Molson Grand Prix of Toronto will see products from 35 corporate sponsors including Yahoo! Canada, Samsung, Molson, MBNA and John Deere. Montreal will kick off an exciting new promotion with Wal-Mart this year where fans can purchase special tickets only at Wal-Mart that celebrate the number 27 carried by Canadian racing legends Gilles and Jacques Villeneuve as well as current-day star Andrew Ranger. The Wal-Mart tickets are three-day passes in a special grandstand for $81 ($27 per day) with a third of the proceeds from each package sold going to the Children's Miracle Network.
"Fans that are coming to Champ Car races this year are seeing a new and improved product both on and off the track, which is a direct result of increased corporate activity surrounding the events," said series co-owner Kevin Kalkhoven. "This is the kind of dynamic that feeds off itself in the business world and we are very pleased with the direction it is taking."
Additionally, the trend that led to a new Champ Car attendance record one year ago is continuing through the first six races of 2006. Long Beach reached the 200,000 mark in attendance for the first time since 2003, Milwaukee and Portland each saw 20 percent increases in attendance over 2005 while last week's event in Cleveland featured a 25-percent jump. Ticket sales in Toronto are up over 2005 while the two-race stretch in Edmonton and San Jose that follows Toronto drew more than 350,000 fans a year ago.
"Don't sell the sizzle, sell the bleeding piece of dead cow carcass."
FCYTravis
05-28-07, 03:24 PM
Yes, because copying and pasting a year-old Champ Car PR piece into this thread will definitely answer all the questions. You can trust PR people to never try and put lipstick on a pig. Right.
Fact is, there's 17 cars on the grid. All the "attendance records" in the world haven't helped a damn thing.
Where's those presenting sponsors, Bridgestone and Ford? Woops...
Fact is, there's 17 cars on the grid.
Right. So are you one of the gradautes of the Sean O Gorman school of marketing that belives in advertising a 17 car grid?
I think most race fans know what they will see if they come to Burke in June. As you may remember, when it was announced that the venue was to go the other series, the people of Cleveland and Champ Car fans appealed to the mayor. A contract was eventually worked out and Champ Car continues to bring the circus to town.
After 25 years of the event, what can you tell the folks in the area that they do not already know. If some ad money is spent in pitching the show to a few more folks who would not come because racing isn't their primarily interest, then spent a little money, ad some more fluff and entice them.
We will see what attendance is like this year when we get there.
As usual, I'll be there for the racing. (and the heat, and the cold, and the winds, and the down-pours of rain)
Yes, because copying and pasting a year-old Champ Car PR piece into this thread will definitely answer all the questions. You can trust PR people to never try and put lipstick on a pig. Right.
Fact is, there's 17 cars on the grid. All the "attendance records" in the world haven't helped a damn thing.
Where's those presenting sponsors, Bridgestone and Ford? Woops...
What's the alternative? The last time CCWS went to MidOhio they put 19 cars on the grid, most of them with direct support from the series. There were virtually no sponsors for the event. The biggest sponsor presence that weekend was Cooper tires with their Formula Ford support.
You can't continue to pay for the teams, pay for the events, and pay for the TV coverage. Chris Pook thought he could sustain those losses long enough to turn things around. He was wrong.
Given the state of open wheel racing you simply can't attract enough open wheel racing fans to create a good sponsorship value on that alone. You have to broaden the appeal.
Spicoli
05-28-07, 06:55 PM
What's the alternative? The last time CCWS went to MidOhio they put 19 cars on the grid, most of them with direct support from the series. There were virtually no sponsors for the event. The biggest sponsor presence that weekend was Cooper tires with their Formula Ford support.
You can't continue to pay for the teams, pay for the events, and pay for the TV coverage. Chris Pook thought he could sustain those losses long enough to turn things around. He was wrong.
Given the state of open wheel racing you simply can't attract enough open wheel racing fans to create a good sponsorship value on that alone. You have to broaden the appeal.
And michelle didn;t help things much either.
Given the state of open wheel racing you simply can't attract enough open wheel racing fans to create a good sponsorship value on that alone. You have to broaden the appeal.
Which to me is what will kill the series ultimately. What you're saying is you can't attract enough race fans to attend a race at a real race track to create that good sponsorship value which funds the teams & series to pay for the thing.
So you throw a carnival downtown and let the taxpayers of said city pay for it. The reason the taxpayers have to pay for it is because CCWS couldn't afford to put up a typical city street course and pay for it themselves, it'd be cheaper to rent a real racetrack, which takes us back to the lack of real racefans and why they don't do that to begin with.
The catch with the street festivals is the ever changing climate in politics in your average American city. Those pro-CCWS street race politicians can get voted out in the next election, the next group may not be so sympathetic. So the festival winds up getting axed and then it's on to the next city full of suckers.
All in all you never gain any real racefans since the series schedule is so fluid. You also don't really gain any new fans since most of those folks coming downtown are just there for the festival. As for the speed aspect of that festival, you could stick just about any racing series out there and the festival event fans would still come.
Look at the NFL. During the Super Bowl there's no hype, extra entertainment or scantily clad women. They just play the game.
You're not seriously trying to draw a comparison between the Super bowl and a typical CCWS street race are you? :confused:
Which to me is what will kill the series ultimately. What you're saying is you can't attract enough race fans to attend a race at a real race track to create that good sponsorship value which funds the teams & series to pay for the thing.
So you throw a carnival downtown and let the taxpayers of said city pay for it. The reason the taxpayers have to pay for it is because CCWS couldn't afford to put up a typical city street course and pay for it themselves, it'd be cheaper to rent a real racetrack, which takes us back to the lack of real racefans and why they don't do that to begin with.
The catch with the street festivals is the ever changing climate in politics in your average American city. Those pro-CCWS street race politicians can get voted out in the next election, the next group may not be so sympathetic. So the festival winds up getting axed and then it's on to the next city full of suckers.
All in all you never gain any real racefans since the series schedule is so fluid. You also don't really gain any new fans since most of those folks coming downtown are just there for the festival. As for the speed aspect of that festival, you could stick just about any racing series out there and the festival event fans would still come.
^^^Quoted for emphasis.
Vegas is another example: no lights, no flash, no hype. Just calm gambling. Elton John just sings. Pink Floyd just plays. When the president is campaigning, does he make a huge production out of a speech? And a broadway show is nothing but good acting.
17 car grids, pay for TV, .1-.3 ratings, every young promising driver leaving, dixon, manning, almendinger.
Yea, the strategy of the past 4 years has most certainly been making progress. Indeck still sponsoring PT.
SUCCESS!!! :laugh:
The weed most definitely is better in Canadia :tony:
opinionated ow
05-28-07, 08:42 PM
the festival of speed concept is a failure. tell me who in their right mind is going to pay the horrendously overpriced GA ticketing fees to come and have their face painted or be recruited for the defence force or watch a concert with a cheap to get no name performer?
the highest single-day ticket sales in the 25-year history of the Cleveland event.
think that might have something to do with the fact that CGP tickets were sold as 3 day packages until '06?
but lets not let context and reality get in the way of a solid string of ******** selective evidence :laugh:
Vegas is another example: no lights, no flash, no hype. Just calm gambling.
If you took away the lights, flash and hype, people would still come to gamble, lots of them.
How many would show up for a CCWS street race without the festival attachments?
TKGAngel
05-28-07, 09:57 PM
The weed most definitely is better in Canadia :tony:
Just by judging on the talk here, sounds like the Grand Prix ads are better too.
Just saw a Toronto ad during the hockey game. The head of Steelback is interviewing Tag, PT and Katherine. All talk about the excitement of the race and how the fans love the experience. No mention of beach volleyball at all.
Jesus had 12 followers, then he started turning water into wine to gather a crowd. He wasn't worried about a little promotion polluting the purity of his message and the crowds started getting bigger. If Jesus wasn't worried about free booze, I'm not going to sweat a few games of beach volleyball.
But it's a free country. Ank's allowed to put more faith in Sean O'Gorman than Jesus. He can even brag about being stone cold sober when he made the decision if he wants to.
Dr. Corkski
05-28-07, 11:11 PM
You're not seriously trying to draw a comparison between the Super bowl and a typical CCWS street race are you? :confused:The NFL is just a niche sport.
Christianity is just a niche religion.
greenie
05-28-07, 11:52 PM
the festival of speed concept is a failure. tell me who in their right mind is going to pay the horrendously overpriced GA ticketing fees to come and have their face painted or be recruited for the defence force or watch a concert with a cheap to get no name performer?
I don't know what that means, and I read it twice. I will say that I disagree in the sense that the idea of bringing races to the people - instead of holding them in the burgs when you have nothing to lure them there for - is as good of a plan as open wheel's got.
I go to races and IMO there's a lot of logic to getting people to actually attend events. The IRL disagrees. The major problem w/Champ Car IMO is that there is no series whatsoever. I laughed because the LA Times in their sports page a little while back had the China race advertised. Beyond Busch League. :gomer:
Moronic ,,,"craftsmen",,, will spew their cheer leading nonsense - but almost nobody cares about the series anymore. I don't care really anymore either - it's not what it was - where's the different disciplines that made the series $$$?
I'll still show up for the races when I can but it really is a shame.
greenie
05-28-07, 11:55 PM
Christianity is just a niche religion.
"I don't want any commies in my car. No Christians either."
Carl Haas
Which to me is what will kill the series ultimately. What you're saying is you can't attract enough race fans to attend a race at a real race track to create that good sponsorship value which funds the teams & series to pay for the thing.
I'm saying that's the situation right now. That doesn't mean they can ignore the fans entirely and have a successful series in the long run. I tend to think that's why we have the loss leader at Road America.
Rebuilding the fan base must be part of a longer term plan for success. But in the short term you have to stop losing money and find people willing to dig up sponsors and pay for events.
opinionated ow
05-29-07, 01:59 AM
I don't know what that means, and I read it twice. I will say that I disagree in the sense that the idea of bringing races to the people - instead of holding them in the burgs when you have nothing to lure them there for - is as good of a plan as open wheel's got.
I go to races and IMO there's a lot of logic to getting people to actually attend events. The IRL disagrees. The major problem w/Champ Car IMO is that there is no series whatsoever. I laughed because the LA Times in their sports page a little while back had the China race advertised. Beyond Busch League. :gomer:
Moronic ,,,"craftsmen",,, will spew their cheer leading nonsense - but almost nobody cares about the series anymore. I don't care really anymore either - it's not what it was - where's the different disciplines that made the series $$$?
I'll still show up for the races when I can but it really is a shame.
what i was trying to say (not very eloquently) is that the festival of speed concept is flawed. people who go are going to be racing fans desperate for a race. you are not going to get people at the event for volleyball, or face painting or defence force recruiting. those things might add to the event, but champ car focussing on everything but the race in all their advertising makes the whole series worthless.
they might as well just go into the street parties business...
Spicoli
05-29-07, 07:35 AM
I'm saying that's the situation right now. That doesn't mean they can ignore the fans entirely and have a successful series in the long run. I tend to think that's why we have the loss leader at Road America.
Rebuilding the fan base must be part of a longer term plan for success. But in the short term you have to stop losing money and find people willing to dig up sponsors and pay for events.
R:
R/A is going to be a success because of 2 things this year: 1. Your personal attendance. 2. ALMS.
You are assuming there is a long-term cohesive plean for success. Remember we are going to have a bunch of (Steve Johnson)ANNOUNCEMENTS HERE THIS WEEK! WE JUST HAD TO WAIT UNTIL INDY IS OVER.
Or maybe not.
Obscurity, here we come! :gomer:
And michelle didn;t help things much either.
Ms. Gajoch couldn't market a race even if she hired Sean O for his expertise. ;)
She's pretty good at cashing Honda's checks, though.
A woman who thinks it's all about sport.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/28/AR2007052801370.html
One who realizes it's not:
http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:0pmaq0M9FBEcHM:http://www.motori-online.it/gallerie_macchine/images/danica-patrick-copertina4p.jpg
You tell me who's more successful. You tell me who's the better marketer.
More BS that proves Cork needs his medicine adjusted.
It's not 1995 anymore. Stop wearing flannel and stop worrying about what's going to happen to Frances Bean.
R:
R/A is going to be a success because of 2 things this year: 1. Your personal attendance. 2. ALMS.
You are assuming there is a long-term cohesive plean for success. Remember we are going to have a bunch of (Steve Johnson)ANNOUNCEMENTS HERE THIS WEEK! WE JUST HAD TO WAIT UNTIL INDY IS OVER.
Or maybe not.
Obscurity, here we come! :gomer:
the plan is working, we are making progress
http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif
look at UFC's soaring popularity, not that it's my kind of thing, but they're not copping out with "niche sport." At some point in time actual measurables need to be attained, milestones. Something other than bull like "look how much better things are than last," or "does the superbowl have entertainment," which is absolutely worthless and has no bearing on any kind of financial gains the series may or may not be making
they're not copping out with "niche sport."
Boxing writer calls UFC niche and says boxing needs to forget about the past:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070527.wspt-brunt-col-27/BNStory/Sports/columnists
And it's a long, long way from this one big night for a niche sport to global domination.
Still, those who have underestimated White, most especially the boxing establishment, falling back on their laurels, their glorious past, their cultural heft, on the fact that their sport has shown remarkable survival skills over its long history, must understand by now that they have done so at their own peril.
Las Vegas sports writer:
UFC was a dying niche sport six years
Variety: the Hollywood Bible uses the word niche in the title:
Fringe titles carve big-time niche
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117963629.html?categoryid=20&cs=1
Video Game Blogger
UFC is such a niche sport, I bet jai alai players are jealous they don't get a game, too.
http://www.1up.com/do/reviewPage?cId=3049494
From amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A13V2MTMAV9K2?ie=UTF8&sort_by=MostRecentReview
This is a great, value-for-money purchase for the specific market niche UFC attracts
Dr. Corkski
05-29-07, 11:01 AM
It's not 1995 anymore. Stop wearing flannel and stop worrying about what's going to happen to Frances Bean.Changing other people's posts is so 1995. :tony:
any kind of financial gains the series may or may not be making
The owner of UFC talks about his business strategy:
Q:
What is the future business strategy for the UFC?
Dana White:
Basically, when we bought the UFC, we had a five-year plan.
We knew that we weren't gonna pick this company up and turn this thing around overnight. It was gonna take some time. And, you know, when I think of where we were two years ago, I am happy with where we are now. We've done a lot in two years. We are a lot further than I thought we would be in two years. And I'm focusing also on getting a free TV deal. Being on MTV or VH-1, you know.
Good thing Ank and O'Gorman weren't on the board of UFC. They think five year plans didn't work. Though I know that having a better TV deal that UFC did in year two of their turnaround isn't relevant, because I researched the fact instead of pulling an opinion out of my ass.
Spicoli
05-29-07, 11:09 AM
Someone please show me one thing in CCWS to be hopeful for this year that we did NOT have last year.
Thanhks.
Changing other people's posts is so 1995. :tony:
This is smart. If you don't talk about facts, you don't reveal your ignorance. Others could learn a lot from you.
There's a lot of people here who need to go back to posting pictures. Bunnies are always good.
http://elissa.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/bunnies.jpg
http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif
the announcements are coming, really, they are, any day now, we really have 24 cars and fortune 500 sponsors on all our sidepods.
you've been spouting "5 year plan" for the past 3-4 years, have any measureables other than cleveland gaming their sales numbers, and picking up the local sports bar and iced tea company for sponsorship?
the way you selectively cite evidence, you must have worked at Enron
Someone please show me one thing in CCWS to be hopeful for this year that we did NOT have last year.
Thanhks.
CCWS has a 5 year plan. The Wharton grad said so!
Someone please show me one thing in CCWS to be hopeful for this year that we did NOT have last year.
Thanhks.
The car is new.
the way you selectively cite evidence
No. I showed that the sport you held out as an example of success is a niche sport that was turned around with a five year plan.
Go back and check the thread. You were the first to mention UFC. You can't pretend that you weren't, unless you want to go back and erase your post.
Spicoli
05-29-07, 11:15 AM
The car is new.
Is it better? And, I knew about the car last year (really 2 years ago). I'm looking for something TANGIBLE from this current administration (Johnson) on anything to look forward to.
I'm in at R/A, and Wifey and I just might do Cleveland, but i'm having a hard time getting psyched up for it.
And before anybody drags cuzzin EARL into this discussion, I could care less about the comparisons.
SJ & thew rest SPOUTED OFF repeatedly about all this new sponsorship and all these new announcements - someonbe tell me just where they are?
:boy whocriedwolf:
Dr. Corkski
05-29-07, 11:18 AM
This is smart. If you don't talk about facts, you don't reveal your ignorance. Others could learn a lot from you.
There's a lot of people here who need to go back to posting pictures. Bunnies are always good.
http://elissa.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/bunnies.jpgOh wait, you were taking this seriously? I thought you wanted to leave it up to the professionals.
Sorry.
:rofl:
http://ufcjunkie.com/2006/12/15/ufc-fight-night-7-draws-13-rating/
UFC Fight Night 7 (Diego Sanchez vs. Joe Riggs)
Dec. 13, 2006
Rating: 1.3
The Ultimate Fighter 4 Finale
Nov. 11, 2006
Rating: 1.1
Ortiz vs. Shamrock 3: The Final Chapter
Oct. 11, 2006
Rating: 3.1
UFC Fight Night 6 (Diego Sanchez vs. Karo Parisyan)
Aug. 17, 2006
Rating: 1.5
UFC Fight Night 5 (Chris Leben vs. Anderson Silva)
June 28, 2006
Rating: 1.4
The Ultimate Fighter 3 Finale
June 24, 2006
Rating: 2.0
UFC Fight Night 4 (Stephan Bonnar vs. Keith Jardine)
April 6, 2006
Rating: 1.6
cage fighting drawing steady 1-3's on cable television
CCWS/CART/OWRS/whatever drawing
The season-opening race from Las Vegas drew a .83 rating on NBC in year (x) of 5 year plan, x depending on which version of CCF revisionism you're subscribing to today...
http://www.sanjosegrandprix.com/news-cc-050107.html
Spicoli
05-29-07, 11:22 AM
no way this thread is complete without......
bunnyTards!:D
http://i8.tinypic.com/6fubqc8.jpg
Sean O'Gorman
05-29-07, 11:26 AM
No. I showed that the sport you held out as an example of success is a niche sport that was turned around with a five year plan.
Was UFC turned around by emphasizing things other than the actual product and the personalities involved? Because that seems to be the Champ Car strategy, and its quite a stark difference from that of every successful sports entity in the history of forever.
No. I showed that the sport you held out as an example of success is a niche sport that was turned around with a five year plan.
turned around with cheerleaders and hotdog eating contest and spelling bees and tug of war and fireworks displays and mini-truck shows and model railroad competitions, no doubt.
The new Panoz with its cracking tubs and broken backs will be the key to changing the fact that 99% of US citizens couldn't give you an answer if you asked what the Champ Car World Series is. For seriouses.
Someone please show me one thing in CCWS to be hopeful for this year that we did NOT have last year.
Thanhks.
I had a good time at the new race in Vegas. :thumbup:
extramundane
05-29-07, 12:08 PM
Someone please show me one thing in CCWS to be hopeful for this year that we did NOT have last year.
Thanhks.
They got Milka, not us.
Beyond that...I got nothing.
Was UFC turned around by emphasizing things other than the actual product and the personalities involved? Because that seems to be the Champ Car strategy, and its quite a stark difference from that of every successful sports entity in the history of forever.
What would you emphasize about the actual product and personalities involved today that is going get who don't already know about those things to put down $50 for a ticket? The fact is that everyone but the diehard racing fans expect a full day of entertainment for a $50 ticket.
CCWS tried selling the drivers back when they had a better field to sell. If it didn't work then what makes you think it will work now?
Things we have this season that we didn't have last season.
New, faster, hotter car
Reportedly ended team support by the series
struggling HVM team replaced by well funded Minardi team
Great new event at Las Vegas
Much improved television package
Three events back to back to start the season
These are only the definites. I won't count any chickens before they're hatched. :)
The fact is that everyone but the diehard racing fans expect a full day of entertainment for a $50 ticket.
adverts for truck races have more emphasis on actual product when compared to the chaff. and I know for a fact that a massive number of the folks who frequent Texas Motor Speedway can't be defined as "die hard."
The AMA SX adverts I recall on radio and TV were the same. SX epitomizes niche.
New, faster, hotter car: safety & tech issues, but still only yielded 17 entries this season, not even the 18 we used to have. Sidepods still empty
Reportedly ended team support by the series: increase in pay drivers, decrease in pilot quality
struggling HVM team replaced by well funded Minardi team: 2 seater in exchange for Ford
Great new event at Las Vegas: perhaps, the track layout is great, .83 TV
Much improved television package: NBC, CBS, ABC, no continuity, and the aforementioned ratings
Three events back to back to start the season: with a month long gap that kills all momentum while Indy is on the cover of every paper. But this lets them solve tech issues with the sled, so they have that going for them, which is nice...
Methanolandbrats
05-29-07, 06:13 PM
Incredible, this thread begins with a stupid doom and gloom post, nearly all of you read it and got your periods at the same time. Three pages of nothing but "Whaaaaaaa.........my ***** hurts and Champcar is doomed". :cry: They really do have to schedule a couple races in May.:rolleyes:
Spicoli
05-29-07, 06:48 PM
Incredible, this thread begins with a stupid doom and gloom post, nearly all of you read it and got your periods at the same time. Three pages of nothing but "Whaaaaaaa.........my ***** hurts and Champcar is doomed". :cry: They really do have to schedule a couple races in May.:rolleyes:
see, you can D&G too when you work at it. ;)
Things we have this season that we didn't have last season.
New, faster, hotter car
Reportedly ended team support by the series
struggling HVM team replaced by well funded Minardi team
Great new event at Las Vegas
Much improved television package
Three events back to back to start the season
These are only the definites. I won't count any chickens before they're hatched. :)
What I've seen is the same old lack of corporate indifference to the series since 2004. A lack of cars at the track and a half field of mystery drivers a week before the season opener. I've completely lost track of every future race there was going to be and I've yet to get my hopes up at all for RA, I'm sure if it underperforms it's back on the chopping block. No ovals (back to the can't get fans to go to real racetracks) and a schedule full of TBA's every year.
It's the same ol song and dance. Plenty of sock tether announcements that never move the sock let alone the tether.
It's a series about nothing. It's like Clark Griswald eating at Eddies house. It's all about how light or dark you like your bun since there's no meat in between but hamburger helper.
Maybe it does all right by itself but I find the taste rather bland and boring.
rant off: gomer
Insomniac
05-29-07, 07:31 PM
I think they need to figure out how to get fans of other motorsports interested in ChampCar. Presumably, a lot of the fans who left went there.
I'm not sure if trying to lure other fans of other un-related things is going to make that many inroads.
Would somehow getting a semi-big name NASCAR driver help at all?
Spicoli
05-29-07, 08:06 PM
I think they need to figure out how to get fans of other motorsports interested in ChampCar. Presumably, a lot of the fans who left went there.
I'm not sure if trying to lure other fans of other un-related things is going to make that many inroads.
Would somehow getting a semi-big name NASCAR driver help at all?
that's only gonna happen when there's money involved, and that's only gonna come when you get 2-3 manu's involved. look, Indy/car is WAY overpriced, but if you could somehow get enough interest in a "run what you got" sort of stockblock deal thingy? ****, what do i know.
like you, i just know it sure ain;t that innerstin to that many people.
parking is usually not a problem tho. :cool:
It's a series about nothing.
Holy ****. You just summed it up in one brief statement.
opinionated ow
05-30-07, 01:01 AM
Holy ****. You just summed it up in one brief statement.
the sad thing is it is true...it is supposed to crown the US National Driving champion, but that title doesn't mean much anymore....
Insomniac
05-30-07, 08:20 AM
that's only gonna happen when there's money involved, and that's only gonna come when you get 2-3 manu's involved. look, Indy/car is WAY overpriced, but if you could somehow get enough interest in a "run what you got" sort of stockblock deal thingy? ****, what do i know.
like you, i just know it sure ain;t that innerstin to that many people.
parking is usually not a problem tho. :cool:
I have to say, the one interesting idea I heard from RM was the give them X gallons of fuel and let them figure out how to get 2 MPG. This is before my time, but isn't that the kind of concept that grew Indy? Where there was so much openness in the rules that there was so much variety. Would that be enough incentive for manufacturer's to get involved? I agree the price to race is too high still for sponsorship. I hope the ESPN deal helps.
What are DVR numbers for ChampCar broadcasts?
Spicoli
05-30-07, 08:46 AM
I have to say, the one interesting idea I heard from RM was the give them X gallons of fuel and let them figure out how to get 2 MPG. This is before my time, but isn't that the kind of concept that grew Indy? Where there was so much openness in the rules that there was so much variety. Would that be enough incentive for manufacturer's to get involved? I agree the price to race is too high still for sponsorship. I hope the ESPN deal helps.
What are DVR numbers for ChampCar broadcasts?
Indy, in a much lower tech era (pre-90s), was all about innovation in technology. folks here (OC) who are much more into the history of the 500 could bring up examples, but yeah, it was where the manufacturers went to check out alot of their new innovations/technologies. I suspect that given how this summer is gonna roll out, bio/alt fuels will be in racing before you know it, and that may carry some interest into the sport. something has to.
As a place to do the research and prove your technology - THAT was what the Indy/Month of May was all about. Crap, I remember we had a suite next to the Texaco suite back in the 70s and that place was packed EVERY single daywith wall to wall business guys, marketers, engineers, etc etc... This whole town benefitted from it. And you could NOT believe how many GoodYear folks showed up all month. The list goes on and on...sadly.
I think 2 things happened: technology got alot more expensive, and alot of companies consolidated into each other. I think you find the tech thing really only going on in F1 or MotoGP, but that is on a totally global scale.
Indy used to have a buttload of local companies supporting them too (Not just Royal Spa :gomer: ) and it brought out alot more of the locals too. but I think things, like I said above, got more expensive due to the logical escaltion of technology, and globalization of businesses.
I'm not sure you could bring ANY of that back, but quite honestly, I think Vision (V 1.0) was about the closest thing to that, while CART went the other direction. Unfortunately, FTG was at the herm, and nobody bought into it. Plus, there wasn't dick wrong with CART back then, it was at the top of the heap.
CCWS is in the unenviable position of having about ZERO going for it, and While EARL has the I.415, that is mitigated by the boat anchor known as FTG (and all the stupidity that goes along with him). CCWS is going to have to do something absolutly earth shattering to move past its current WGAF status with John Q., and I am not sure what it is. I am pretty sure its not the DP01, cause its not that different than the Lola/Reynard days. GM/Ford/Mopar won't come over AFAIK. The Japs killed us oncle before, and the Euros went to ALMS/GA.
FTG has pissed off alot of the local companies as of late (I know a local beer distributor who isn;lt very happy) and even some of the city brass are getting teed off as well (be interesting to see if this comes out) and he just seems to be as brash and arrogant as ever. That whole renovation of 16 & Georgtown appears to be all his pipe dream, and as defiant as anything i have seen him do. This guy needs political lessons from someone, or needs to fire whoever is telling him to go down these paths.
Its seems sitting here on May 30, 2007, we were right all along:
Its ALWAYS been about killing CART, and its ALWAYS been about ME ME ME - FTG.
******* needs to just GO AWAY. :flame:
The new chassis hasn't done anything to make the series better. What does the paying public know or care about the difference between a Panoz or a Dallara World Series car? Yes its marginally faster but who knows that outside of the fora? Its still way too damn expensive to run.
CCWS given its public profile should cost around $1.5 million per year per car. Then you might get a 25 car field. The fact that the new "cheaper" Atlantics was allowed to creep back up to to the million dollar budget mark is a f**king joke and shows the detachment from reality the powers of American single-seater racing are enjoying.
Why would a sponsor pay Forsythe $3 million per year when they can do Craftsman Trucks for twice the money and 15 times the exposure?
I am in agreement with Extramundane, the only thing CCWS has going this year is no Milkers.
Boatdesigner
05-30-07, 11:34 AM
I have been somewhat disappointed in the car. It could have made a bigger difference if it more closely followed the early descriptions we were given. Lighter, smaller, faster . . . if it was as fast as an F1 car at a much smaller price, it may have gotten more recognition.
This long dry spell is a disaster and the idiots behind it should be fired. F**K Indy, schedule some races in May! Now we will get a bunch of races over the summer and a long, boring drawn out end of the season in the fall. The schedule needs to be more compact and build some momentum.
As for the ads, I have never seen an ad for CCWS. We don't get a race down here in one of the most populous states in the nation. How about a Sebring race when the sports cars are in town? Even as a warm-up to the ALMS race it would be a good draw. Long term, the series can not survive on the festivals. It will need to be seen as a serious racing series again or it is doomed. What gets me really crazy is that CCWS still has some of the best racing around! Has anyone passed for the lead in F1 this year?
devilmaster
05-30-07, 12:04 PM
Happened to see a GP Toronto commercial Monday night during Game 1 of the Stanley Cup finals.
I was in a bar, so I couldn't hear the sound. Clips of the cars on track, but a few of the sideshow bits too. Clips of Tracy and Katherine.
Cool thing is that the GP has a new presenting sponsor, and its Steelback beer.
Insomniac
05-30-07, 02:21 PM
I think most can agree the best potential solution is a merger. Absent that, CC needs to decide if it's going to ever happen or not. If not, they need to differentiate themselves from the IRL (I know, tough to do when TG just does everything they do 5 years later). I have to assume the new potential fan can't tell the difference between them and the subsequent confusion results in them just tuning out. With the numbers they have now, they should only be a support series for someone, not the headline.
I agree with Tommy Kendall. Merge so they can realize its not just the split that has caused the public to become completely apathetic. Then figure out what the real disconnect is and see if it is even worth trying to fix.
Ray Scar
05-30-07, 03:46 PM
Two things the new car is supposed to give us is a better ability to run close in traffic and on board starters. Both of which have the potential at least to affect future fans by providing a better "spectacle".
We haven't really had much of a chance to see the benefits of the aero yet, Portland may offer that opportunity. But they really need to get the starters fixed ASAP.
cameraman
05-30-07, 03:48 PM
Now that they have had six weeks or so of free time do you think that they have the fuel cells properly installed yet?
opinionated ow
05-30-07, 09:31 PM
I think most can agree the best potential solution is a merger. Absent that, CC needs to decide if it's going to ever happen or not. If not, they need to differentiate themselves from the IRL (I know, tough to do when TG just does everything they do 5 years later). I have to assume the new potential fan can't tell the difference between them and the subsequent confusion results in them just tuning out. With the numbers they have now, they should only be a support series for someone, not the headline.
too late for merger. need a brand new series run by staff handpicked from IRL and CCWS HQs. there are some good staff in both.
Two things the new car is supposed to give us is a better ability to run close in traffic and on board starters. Both of which have the potential at least to affect future fans by providing a better "spectacle".
We haven't really had much of a chance to see the benefits of the aero yet, Portland may offer that opportunity. But they really need to get the starters fixed ASAP.
i heard somewhere (can't remember where) that they were going to give up on the starters, and remove them.
extramundane
05-30-07, 09:55 PM
too late for merger. need a brand new series run by staff handpicked from IRL and CCWS HQs. there are some good staff in both.
And the difference between those two scenarios would be...?
Spicoli
05-30-07, 10:33 PM
And the difference between those two scenarios would be...?
I lmfao at that response. :laugh:
Poster guy lives in Aussie and I'm pretty sure they don;t even have TV coverage this year. I mean - OOW, have you met ANY of these people? The EARL staff is 95% dolt, and the CCWS staf is maybe 80% dolt, everyone else who had any clue left months and years ago.
?????
I keep coming back in my mind to the idea that CC is a series about nothing. It seems to me that for anything to be important, it has to have an overriding theme that draws the imagination of potential fans. Champ car (generic) was about competing to be crowned the racing champion of the US. I just don't see how that is possible anymore, given the fact that NASCAR dominates the sport and locks CC out of many venues that would be important to an overall championship (not to mention the absence of the Indy 500, which was also a big part of that championship).
I agree that Champ Car needs a new name, a new mission, and a completely differentiated product with a trail of races that follow a common theme designed to capture the public imagination. In my opinion, both the IRL and CC are failures because the series are run for the series' sake, not for the sake of some greater goal. When the owners of CCWS realize this and make the revolutionary changes necessary to thrive, not just survive, then I believe they may be able to find some traction.
Until then, I wish them luck. They will need it.
Insomniac
05-31-07, 08:13 AM
too late for merger.
Why is that?
I've been following this thread (as best I can considering my advanced age and diminished mental capacity) and find it interesting in the abstract.
All is not lost. All is not going to improve much. NASCAR won and is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. That's it for American racing. Every other American racing series can plan, revise their plan, go broke attempting to immpelment their plans for the U.S. market, and end up nowhere better than fighting for the crumbs. Making CCWS the F1 lite for the rest of the world is one direction to go, but that still doesn't get us anywhere here in the states.
For me, it isn't over when I can still attend a few races each year, and after 50+ years of doing that (through times of AAA, USAC, CART, Champ Car), I have decided to never bitch about how it goes when it only sit in front of a TV to see it, and to enjoy it to the max when I get to the track.
It's obvious that there are too many uncertainties in the business of racing for me to stress my little brain over, and while it can be an intellectual diversion from time-to-time, it comes back to the reality that I don't own it, I don't run it, I am not wise enough to save it, and none of the owners of it have ever listened to anything I have had to say about it.
For more than half a century, I have found joy in watching it.
It's that simple, folks. See you at the races.
For more than half a century, I have found joy in watching it. It's that simple, folks. See you at the races.
:thumbup: :)
opinionated ow
05-31-07, 11:13 AM
Why is that?
both series in the limited view of the public are minor insignificant issues that NASCAR craps on. public sees it. you have build a new series, new people, new name, the best drivers etc. it is the only way. sometimes you have to totally cut your losses and run along. this is one of thosthis isn't like the NST/WOO split of last year. that was one year, kinser and co achieved their goal and the one year separation didn't really hurt the name. this is 12 years of nothingness, CCWS has changed their name too many times, both products are irrelevant, and way too much damage has been done to the current names. jmho
Ray Scar
05-31-07, 11:49 AM
i heard somewhere (can't remember where) that they were going to give up on the starters, and remove them.
That would be a real shame.
Eliminating the multi-lap full course yellow that we are currently treated to when a car spins and stalls has the potential to change the face of street racing altogether. Not to mention the benefit on a proper road course like Road America where three laps of yellow take forever.
I doubt that the new or casual fan would appreciate it much when he sees Speedy Dan spin, stall, and recover without more than a waving local yellow. I am sure the same person understands how disrupting the same event is when accompanied by 20 minutes of no racing.
the starters are key to making street racing not so worthless in general
opinionated ow
05-31-07, 01:25 PM
That would be a real shame.
Eliminating the multi-lap full course yellow that we are currently treated to when a car spins and stalls has the potential to change the face of street racing altogether. Not to mention the benefit on a proper road course like Road America where three laps of yellow take forever.
I doubt that the new or casual fan would appreciate it much when he sees Speedy Dan spin, stall, and recover without more than a waving local yellow. I am sure the same person understands how disrupting the same event is when accompanied by 20 minutes of no racing.
the starters are key to making street racing not so worthless in general
don't take it as gospel, might have changed since I heard (if what I heard was official).
Insomniac
05-31-07, 01:48 PM
That would be a real shame.
Eliminating the multi-lap full course yellow that we are currently treated to when a car spins and stalls has the potential to change the face of street racing altogether. Not to mention the benefit on a proper road course like Road America where three laps of yellow take forever.
I doubt that the new or casual fan would appreciate it much when he sees Speedy Dan spin, stall, and recover without more than a waving local yellow. I am sure the same person understands how disrupting the same event is when accompanied by 20 minutes of no racing.
Not to mention with the length of races getting shorter, you want as much green as possible. Not yellows for cars that stalled.
Nintendo targets niches. They sell video games to senior citizens.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/06/11/100083454/index.htm?postversion=2007053112
“We are not competing against Sony or Microsoft. We are battling the indifference of people who have no interest in videogames."
With sales of more than 12 million copies, the title has made the DS a hit in such unlikely places as nursing homes.
"Nintendo is a pioneer," says John Schappert, COO of EA Studios. "They're zigging when others are zagging.”
The New York Times reports that the company has taken Wii to Life@50+, an annual event sponsored by AARP.
Two points that Nintendo tries to sell: (1) If you know how to make card games, you can play Wii. Its game control is more natural than which of its competitors. (2) Nintendo games such as Brain Age are not only fun to play, but also they can exercise your mind and help to improve brain functioning.
+1 point for the Nintendo’s marketing team.
It’s smart for Nintendo not to directly compete with Sony PS3 and Microsoft XBox for the hearts of hard-core gamers
Now that I'm finally back.
Champ Car is actually more mainstream than UFC. You'll see more women and more old farts and a Champ Car race. In fact, that's probably the biggest reason we're having trouble finding sponsors. Lots of sponsors would want to put their products in front of 50,000 young men in Long Beach. 20,00 young guys, some women and some old farts is not that exciting.
Champ Car is actually more mainstream than UFC.
so that's what the .83 rating for Vegas proved. "mainstream."
Lots of sponsors would want to put their products in front of 50,000 young men in Long Beach. 20,00 young guys, some women and some old farts is not that exciting. that and they might rather want their product in front of a few million on TV, instead of a few hundred thou. But I wouldn't know, I didn't go to DeVry :gomer:
Champ Car: They hate us because we're diverse!
Insomniac
05-31-07, 07:09 PM
Nintendo targets niches. They sell video games to senior citizens.
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/06/11/100083454/index.htm?postversion=2007053112
“We are not competing against Sony or Microsoft. We are battling the indifference of people who have no interest in videogames."
With sales of more than 12 million copies, the title has made the DS a hit in such unlikely places as nursing homes.
"Nintendo is a pioneer," says John Schappert, COO of EA Studios. "They're zigging when others are zagging.”
The New York Times reports that the company has taken Wii to Life@50+, an annual event sponsored by AARP.
Two points that Nintendo tries to sell: (1) If you know how to make card games, you can play Wii. Its game control is more natural than which of its competitors. (2) Nintendo games such as Brain Age are not only fun to play, but also they can exercise your mind and help to improve brain functioning.
+1 point for the Nintendo’s marketing team.
It’s smart for Nintendo not to directly compete with Sony PS3 and Microsoft XBox for the hearts of hard-core gamers
Nintendo recognized they were having trouble competing with MS and Sony for the existing video game market. They decided to expand the market by attracting the non-traditional gamers. Of course, since they were still extremely profitable despite fininshing 3rd with the Gamecube, they can do things like the DS and Wii. And an interesting outcome, they are competing quite well with MS an Sony again.
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