Scratch another off the schedule

[cart7]

Zhuhai is history for this year. :shakehead This just keeps getting better.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/37751/

[Gnam]

but Steve-o says he's got a plan. :p

[Chief]

Who's the stupid *** that put it on the May schedule in the first place? To think we toiled through 2004 and 2005 to arrive at this anti-climatic season.

Kudos to the indystar for this breaking update....they can't cover the series with any respect so this is perfect for them. :shakehead

[RusH]

We all have plans, some a bit personal ......needin` some Smacking :gomer:

As much as I want the CC guys to succeed...having the better formula, etc....but the issues...Oh, the many issues.:saywhat:
,,,,

Mugello this weekend!:thumbup:

[Spicoli]

Zhuhai is history for this year. :shakehead This just keeps getting better.

http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/37751/


exhibit #1 of ****tardedness.:tony:

[Ankf00]

it's all part of the 5 year plan. the super bowl was built in such a manner. we're too mainstream for Zuhai anyway.

[Jervis Tetch 1]

:yuck:

[jonovision_man]

It would be nice if we had just one season where they didn't cancel a race. :shakehead

What worries me is that Wilke (is that a dirty word? ;)) said he had heard Zhuhai was getting scrubbed... and when he heard that he also heard "and two others". His source was right about Zhuhai, which concerns me that he might also be right about the other two.

jono

[jonovision_man]

Oh, and ChampCar is getting sued by the Chinese promoter:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070601/SPORTS01/706010481/1247/SPORTS


Promoter sues CCWS

The promoter of the planned Champ Car World Series race in China filed a lawsuit Wednesday against Champ Car owners Kevin Kalkhoven and Gerald Forsythe alleging breach of contract and fraud.

In the suit, filed in Marion County Superior Court, Sino Sports and Entertainment Inc. claims it paid Champ Car $1.6 million in advance for rights to promote a Champ Car race in China and telecast the full schedule in China. It claims $15 million in lost revenue because Champ Car didn't get permission from the FIA, the world governing body for motor sports, for either.
Sino alleges Champ Car was responsible for moving the race from May to October. But Champ Car president Steve Johnson, whose first knowledge of the suit came in a phone call Thursday morning from The Star, said it was Sino that requested the change after it replaced the original promoter.

"The FIA approved us to race in May," he said. "The promoters asked for the date change, which the FIA rejected. We're still working with (the FIA) on that.

"The worst that can happen is they say no and we have to postpone the race till the spring of 2008."

jono

[Spicoli]

It would be nice if we had just one season where they didn't cancel a race. :shakehead

What worries me is that Wilke (is that a dirty word? ;)) said he had heard Zhuhai was getting scrubbed... and when he heard that he also heard "and two others". His source was right about Zhuhai, which concerns me that he might also be right about the other two.

jono

I call Bulllshiiit.


wilke heard that crap gen 5. anybody since Stevie j got the reigns coulda told you its "all down hill to Zuhai" :laugh:


Wilke: dumber than me.

[Indy]

It would be nice if we had just one season where they didn't cancel a race. :shakehead

What worries me is that Wilke (is that a dirty word? ;)) said he had heard Zhuhai was getting scrubbed... and when he heard that he also heard "and two others". His source was right about Zhuhai, which concerns me that he might also be right about the other two.

jono

Zhuhai was pretty much an open secret. Anyone could have known about this and just made up the rest.

[jonovision_man]

Zhuhai was pretty much an open secret. Anyone could have known about this and just made up the rest.

Could be. Hope so.

jono

[Wally]

WTF's a wilke.....:confused:

[nissan gtp]

once again, champ car drops the ball

how in the hell did KK get to be a Billionaire ? beginning to look like it was dumb luck, not talent

[jonovision_man]

WTF's a wilke.....:confused:

If you don't know, you're lucky. :D

jono

[Andrew Longman]

Someone please exlain to me how a race 800 miles away on a different date has any influence on the CC event date. And why does F1 and the FIA call the shots anyway? I/m dumb on this.

[Insomniac]

If they didn't want to race in May 2007 to save the promoter transportation costs, why would they want to race in May 2008?

Is Bernie still that scared of CC? Isn't the USGP "too close in space and time" to any number of CC and IRL races?

[jonovision_man]

Someone please exlain to me how a race 800 miles away on a different date has any influence on the CC event date.

I have no answer, it seems absurd to me. But that's the FIA, they say they had already made an exception to let ChampCar race in May, so it's probably more a case of "enough is enough".


And why does F1 and the FIA call the shots anyway? I/m dumb on this.

F1 doesn't call the shots. The FIA does.

The FIA are the international governing body of motorsport. In America there is ACCUS, which is a member of the FIA, so by extension everything here is under the FIA too. ChampCar, IRL, NASCAR, it's all ultimately under the FIA's watchful eye.

(The only exception is ALMS, but I've never quite understood the relationship between ACO and the FIA, so if someone can explain that it'd be great)

Theoretically, you could run a race without the FIA's blessing. But the ramifications for the drivers, the track, the league, even the country in question would be severe... so it just wouldn't happen.

jono

[EDwardo]

If they didn't want to race in May 2007 to save the promoter transportation costs, why would they want to race in May 2008?

Is Bernie still that scared of CC? Isn't the USGP "too close in space and time" to any number of CC and IRL races?

I doubt that Bernie is scared of CC. It's all about power and money. After all, China is a potentially huge new market and perhaps he simply doesn't want any distractions. This is the same guy that dropped England, France, and Germany (1 race anyway) in favor of new events organized and built by billionaires. The USGP exists because he wanted a race in the US. And at the most recognizable location possible.

[opinionated ow]

amateur hour :gomer:

[cart7]

Someone please exlain to me how a race 800 miles away on a different date has any influence on the CC event date. And why does F1 and the FIA call the shots anyway? I/m dumb on this.

It probably went something like this:

china promoter: "Honorable Mr. Johnson, we are having problems on our ends putting the pieces together to make this the best event it could possibly be, would it be possible to move this race towards october to give us more time to put the best effort possible together for a successful race."

Johnson: "Sure Mr. Chang, should be no problem. I'll go ahead and have the CCWS website changed to reflect a date in October. I'm sure the FIA will have no problem with this. It'll all be just a formality on their end to get this date changed. Consider it a done deal."

[Boatdesigner]

Who the hell put the FIA in charge anyway? I think it is time for someone to sue the FIA over being a monopoly and see if they really do control all the racing on the planet. If the EU can go after Microsoft when they have competition, then there is no reason they can't go after a group that has almost no competition. Max Mosley is destroying F1, why any other series allow him to control their destiny is beyond me!

[opinionated ow]

Who the hell put the FIA in charge anyway? I think it is time for someone to sue the FIA over being a monopoly and see if they really do control all the racing on the planet. If the EU can go after Microsoft when they have competition, then there is no reason they can't go after a group that has almost no competition. Max Mosley is destroying F1, why any other series allow him to control their destiny is beyond me!

fia is like FIFA, FINA etc. the sporting body for the world, whether we like it or not.

[Accipiter]

F1 doesn't call the shots. The FIA does.

The FIA are the international governing body of motorsport. In America there is ACCUS, which is a member of the FIA, so by extension everything here is under the FIA too. ChampCar, IRL, NASCAR, it's all ultimately under the FIA's watchful eye.



The FIA is supposed to be an impartial governing body that's only real job in regards to motorsports is ensuring that the series they watch over meet sufficient safety standards. But since Mosely is in bed with Ecclestone, we get decisions like this one based purely on favoritism.

[jonovision_man]

The FIA is supposed to be an impartial governing body that's only real job in regards to motorsports is ensuring that the series they watch over meet sufficient safety standards. But since Mosely is in bed with Ecclestone, we get decisions like this one based purely on favoritism.

Possibly.

But ChampCar isn't playing by the FIA rules, if they had they wouldn't require an exception.


But that plan was dead on arrival at the FIA, which had already made one exception to its scheduling procedures in order to accommodate Champ Car’s plans for races in Zolder, Belgium and Assen, Holland in late August/early September. Apart from the fact that rescheduling the Zhuhai race so late in the game would have required the FIA to make another exception, Formula One Management objected to the October date on the grounds that it was too close in space and time to the Chinese Grand Prix in Shanghai on October 7.

This is ChampCar's fault, the race was scheduled in May and if they'd ran it in May there wouldn't have been a problem with the FIA.

jono

[Boatdesigner]

fia is like FIFA, FINA etc. the sporting body for the world, whether we like it or not.

That doesn't answer my question though. Who actually put them in charge? Are they self appointed? Did the US government cede control over all motor sports to the FIA? Was there a vote on whether the FIA or some other organization would be king of racing?

It may be different in other parts of the world, but if I wanted to open my own football or baseball league here, I don't have to get permission from some international entity. Why is motor racing any different? The FIA doesn't provide any support as far as I can tell to CCWS. It doesn't make the rules, it doesn't inspect the tracks, it doesn't solve disputes after races as it does in F1. In fact, it seems to have a vested interest in F1 that gives it a conflict of interest in dealing with any other competing series.

[nrc]

This is ChampCar's fault, the race was scheduled in May and if they'd ran it in May there wouldn't have been a problem with the FIA.

jono

Champ car claims that the promoter requested the change. It's also pretty clear from Mosely's comments that he's going to insist that the date not "conflict" with the F1 date in October. Regardless of "fault" there's no question that the FIA caters to F1.

[jonovision_man]

Champ car claims that the promoter requested the change.

... to which they should have replied "no". If that's even the case, the promoter is suing ChampCar claiming the opposite.


It's also pretty clear from Mosely's comments that he's going to insist that the date not "conflict" with the F1 date in October. Regardless of "fault" there's no question that the FIA caters to F1.

I don't deny that there's a bias toward F1 in the FIA, but knowing that ChampCar still worked out a date for China originally and a special exception to race in Europe. So it's clear the FIA was originally intending to accommodate ChampCar, until they started playing musical dates.

jono

[Chief]

This is ChampCar's fault, the race was scheduled in May and if they'd ran it in May there wouldn't have been a problem with the FIA.
Max Mosely notified them NO on April 2nd, plenty of time to still hold the race on May 20th. Unless there's something here not being told (like KK backroom dealing w/ FTG for Indy appearance stuff where a bluff could have been going on) the failure falls on the naive...in this case CCWS.

[tantra]

Here's some info re: the EU investigation and settlement with the FIA. There's a long history, but nearly all auto racing groups accept the FIA's rule of power. It seems stupid at times, but since drivers, team owners, race promoters move from county to country and from one racing series to another over their careers, it seems some group needs to lay down some rules and keep the chaos to a minimum.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/1523&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

[opinionated ow]

Here's some info re: the EU investigation and settlement with the FIA. There's a long history, but nearly all auto racing groups accept the FIA's rule of power. It seems stupid at times, but since drivers, team owners, race promoters move from county to country and from one racing series to another over their careers, it seems some group needs to lay down some rules and keep the chaos to a minimum.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/1523&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

and whether we like it or not, FIA is it. To separate yourselves form them is just asking for trouble, especially if someone gets injured or killed

[emjaya]

When did the USA start taking orders from damn foreigners.:\

America never gave a damn before, why have you started now.The first race at Surfers was not raced under the FIA, it ran under CART.

Is this another thing that Tony has fixed. :irked:

Someone in CCWS needs to grow some balls and tell the FIA the race is happening and on the date that CCWS want it.:flame:

[FCYTravis]

Someone in CCWS needs to grow some balls and tell the FIA the race is happening and on the date that CCWS want it.:flame:
Not going to happen. As an international event, that race in China would require approval from the Chinese ASN, or national sporting authority. Without a listing on the international calendar (which has been denied by the FIA) China's ASN is not going to sanction it.

Racing insurance policies are generally predicated on these sanctioning agreements being in place - ergo, without FIA approval, CCWS can't run the race without violating insurance requirements. Furthermore, they'd get no organizing or officiating assistance from the Chinese ASN - and this is China, remember, so no doubt the Chinese ASN is essentially an arm of the government. If the ASN doesn't want you racing, you don't race.

Every race CART and Champ Car have ever run has been under the FIA, because they've been a member of ACCUS since 1980, and the first season was sanctioned by the SCCA. (ACCUS applicants must be sponsored/sanctioned by a member body in their first year of operations... much like USAC/IRL in 1996.)

[FCYTravis]

Oh, and Jono, IMSA is a member of ACCUS.

The eight full ACCUS members are SCCA, NASCAR, Champ Car, Grand-Am, IMSA, NHRA, USAC and IRL. The WKA is an affiliate member.

[Jag_Warrior]

Someone in CCWS needs to grow some balls and tell the FIA the race is happening and on the date that CCWS want it.:flame:

And the authorities in China will tell Champ Car that the first Cosworth better not fire up.

Those are the rules of the game. Fair or not, that's the way it is. And let's not pretend that Champ Car has the muscle to take on the FIA.

The best thing CCWS could do (or could have done) is choose a promoter that has its act together, and then stick with the agreed upon dates. If the series intends on making this race happen in 2008, that might be a tactic to follow going forward. Steve Johnson can say whatever he wants to say, the issue has been called dead by the FIA. Johnson should just drop the issue for 2007, before he makes himself look any sillier than he already does. Putting Johnson up against Max Mosley would be like pitting Pee Wee Herman against Mike Tyson... on a day when he hasn't had his meds. Let it go.

[RTKar]

CC is so far out of anyone's consciousness, you'd think the season was over or worse yet, the series no longer exists.

[jonovision_man]

Oh, and Jono, IMSA is a member of ACCUS.

The eight full ACCUS members are SCCA, NASCAR, Champ Car, Grand-Am, IMSA, NHRA, USAC and IRL. The WKA is an affiliate member.

Ah, OK, that answers the question on this side of the Atlantic... :)

I'm still not certain what the FIA's relationship with ACO abroad is, though, presumably the FIA has some control over ACO?

jono

[opinionated ow]

Ah, OK, that answers the question on this side of the Atlantic... :)

I'm still not certain what the FIA's relationship with ACO abroad is, though, presumably the FIA has some control over ACO?

jono
the best I can make of it is that FIA has ceded autonomy of sports car regulations to ACO on the proviso that FIA sporting procedures and safety requirements are incorporated into ACO regulations.

[extramundane]

the best I can make of it is that FIA has ceded autonomy of sports car regulations to ACO on the proviso that FIA sporting procedures and safety requirements are incorporated into ACO regulations.

The FIA has most certainly not "ceded autonomy of sports car regulations to ACO." You'll note the continued differences between FIA & ACO GT rules, despite claims of moving towards uniformity.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

[nissan gtp]

the best I can make of it is that FIA has ceded autonomy of sports car regulations to ACO on the proviso that FIA sporting procedures and safety requirements are incorporated into ACO regulations.

ACO make the LeMans rules and gets away with it.

FIA no likey.

That's about the size of it. vive le ACO :D

[oddlycalm]

Johnson should just drop the issue for 2007, before he makes himself look any sillier than he already does. Zhuhai; it's the new Ansan. :thumbup: :gomer:

oc

[Easy]

The consequence of teams and drivers participating in a non FIA approved event are a lifetime ban from any FIA member series. They wouldn't even be allowed in an SCCA novice school.

[Rus'L]

CC is so far out of anyone's consciousness, you'd think the season was over or worse yet, the series no longer exists.

There's a Champ Car series taking place...? :confused:

[jonovision_man]

ACO make the LeMans rules and gets away with it.

FIA no likey.

That's about the size of it. vive le ACO :D

Sounds like there are a lot of common regulations between FIA and ACO, though, so they're not entirely independent... but at the same time they don't seem to be controlled by the FIA like all the others. Interesting.

Imagine the French being able to pull something like that off... who knew they had it in them? ;)

jono

[Andrew Longman]

Here's some info re: the EU investigation and settlement with the FIA. There's a long history, but nearly all auto racing groups accept the FIA's rule of power. It seems stupid at times, but since drivers, team owners, race promoters move from county to country and from one racing series to another over their careers, it seems some group needs to lay down some rules and keep the chaos to a minimum.

http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/01/1523&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage=en

I'm going to need more of an explanation. By my read of that this is the key part:


Following discussions with Competition Commissioner Mario Monti, the FIA agreed to modify its rules to bring them into line with EU law. After consulting interested third parties and the Member States, the Commission is now ready to close the file. The modifications introduced by FIA will ensure that :


The role of FIA will be limited to that of a sports regulator, with no commercial conflicts of interest;

The FIA rules are not used to prevent or impede new competitions unless justified on grounds related to the safe, fair or orderly conduct of motor sport;

Internal and external appeals procedures against FIA decisions are strengthened.

To prevent conflicts of interest, FIA has sold all its rights in the FIA Formula One World Championship and will allow the creation of potential inter- and intra-brand competition between Formula One and similar races and series.

The FIA will, therefore, have no influence over the commercial exploitation of the Formula One Championship.

So CC wants to hold a little race in China. How do the FIA actions help contribute to the "safe, fair or orderly conduct of motor sport". Indeed, from CC's perspective it would seem to be the opposite.:saywhat:

Its pretty clear they are simply protecting the commercial interests of the F1 race which is counter to the ruling.

[Boatdesigner]

The FIA rules are not used to prevent or impede new competitions unless justified on grounds related to the safe, fair or orderly conduct of motor sport;

If the FIA has no interest in F1 and is only supposed to insure the "safe, fair or orderly conduct of motorsport", where exactly is CCWS falling afoul of the above? I am sure the track is safe for Champ Cars. Two races in one month in a country the size of China doesn't sound so unfair, given the number of major races that took place here on Memorial Day. If they simply change their schedule, which is what, updating the website, then things will be orderly. I don't see how this race causes any problems for anyone outside of CCWS.


The consequence of teams and drivers participating in a non FIA approved event are a lifetime ban from any FIA member series. They wouldn't even be allowed in an SCCA novice school.

I didn't think the French were allowed in the mob! :eek: If they tried something like this, they would surely find themselves in courts worldwide for restraint of trade, among other things. They can't legally be that powerful without running afoul of the laws regulating monopolies (see EU and US rulings on Micro$oft). I still don't see how they can stop a private enterprise from running its business how it sees fit. Especially if that business has not given its consent to be governed this way. CCWS may have by joining ACCUS, but there is no reason they can't tell them to take a flying leap!

[emjaya]

The consequence of teams and drivers participating in a non FIA approved event are a lifetime ban from any FIA member series. They wouldn't even be allowed in an SCCA novice school.

I don't think so.

There is a race series in Oz that is not runninng under the ASN, CAMS, and CAMS cannot stop people from running in it or not allow them back in the CAMS events.

There is some restriction of trade laws that come into play in Australia.

I'm not up on US laws, would it be the same there?

Edit:Plus what boatdesigner said.

[jonovision_man]

If the FIA has no interest in F1 and is only supposed to insure the "safe, fair or orderly conduct of motorsport", where exactly is CCWS falling afoul of the above? I am sure the track is safe for Champ Cars. Two races in one month in a country the size of China doesn't sound so unfair, given the number of major races that took place here on Memorial Day. If they simply change their schedule, which is what, updating the website, then things will be orderly. I don't see how this race causes any problems for anyone outside of CCWS.


The FIA would have to make an exception to their scheduling rules, which they are not obligated to do. ChampCar should get their **** together and play by the rules, then they wouldn't have to beg the FIA for exemptions. Instead they fly by the seat of their pants, changing dates mid-season, dropping and adding races.

Remember that the FIA has already made an exception to its rules to allow for the European swing... they really aren't obligated to do it again.

jono

[Tifosi24]

I think Easy is correct about the ban. Someone older than I and more versed in sports car racing can clear this up for me, but if I remember some of what I read, the reason there are chicanes on Mulsanne at Le Mans is that in the early 1990s (?) the FIA limited straightaway length. The ACO did not want to put in the chicanes until the FIA threatened lifetime bans for any driver or team who participated in a race on a non-bastardized track. Am I in the ballpark here, or just full of goose crap?

[FCYTravis]

The consequence of teams and drivers participating in a non FIA approved event are a lifetime ban from any FIA member series. They wouldn't even be allowed in an SCCA novice school.
Where does that leave NASA/Skip Barber/et al.? :confused:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Crap, I ran in some autocrosses that weren't SCCA sanctioned last year, I hope I didn't jeopardize my chances to drive in Champ Car. :gomer:

[Boatdesigner]

The FIA would have to make an exception to their scheduling rules, which they are not obligated to do. ChampCar should get their **** together and play by the rules, then they wouldn't have to beg the FIA for exemptions. Instead they fly by the seat of their pants, changing dates mid-season, dropping and adding races.

If all we are talking about here is some "official" calendar, I still don't see what the problem is. Was this calendar handed down from on high by some blind Tibetan monk who got it from the Gods of racing? This sounds like children (read "Mosely") having a p#ssing match. Does anyone here actually go to the FIA to find the schedule of events? I don't see how this effects the FIA one tiny bit. I bet CCWS doesn't really care if they are on the official FIA calendar, just as long as they can put on their race.

If something similar happened in F1, you can be damn sure the race date would be changed! If I was CCWS management, I would send a letter to Max informing him that we expect to see numerous FIA officials at every race for the rest of the year, working their butts off. If the schedule is so important and changing it is such an inconvenience, there better be some real reason why it can't be done, not just Max stomping his feet and crying like a baby.

[opinionated ow]

I don't think so.

There is a race series in Oz that is not runninng under the ASN, CAMS, and CAMS cannot stop people from running in it or not allow them back in the CAMS events.

There is some restriction of trade laws that come into play in Australia.

I'm not up on US laws, would it be the same there?

Edit:Plus what boatdesigner said.
AMRS isn't exactly full of entries in any of its classes....4 cars does not a succesful series make, and the other thing you see is that the same driver is often driving in 4 categories.

If the FIA has no interest in F1 and is only supposed to insure the "safe, fair or orderly conduct of motorsport", where exactly is CCWS falling afoul of the above? I am sure the track is safe for Champ Cars. Two races in one month in a country the size of China doesn't sound so unfair, given the number of major races that took place here on Memorial Day. If they simply change their schedule, which is what, updating the website, then things will be orderly. I don't see how this race causes any problems for anyone outside of CCWS.



I didn't think the French were allowed in the mob! :eek: If they tried something like this, they would surely find themselves in courts worldwide for restraint of trade, among other things. They can't legally be that powerful without running afoul of the laws regulating monopolies (see EU and US rulings on Micro$oft). I still don't see how they can stop a private enterprise from running its business how it sees fit. Especially if that business has not given its consent to be governed this way. CCWS may have by joining ACCUS, but there is no reason they can't tell them to take a flying leap!
It is the way it is. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who would risk never competing in an FIA affiliated race again for one event. Remember, it is not just ACCUS that is FIA. It is all 8 of those member organisations AND all of their affiliated clubs. The FIA control through affiliations approximately 95% in the world of motorsport (thats a realistic guess). You can argue there merits for as long as you like, but they are the government of motorsport...

The FIA would have to make an exception to their scheduling rules, which they are not obligated to do. ChampCar should get their **** together and play by the rules, then they wouldn't have to beg the FIA for exemptions. Instead they fly by the seat of their pants, changing dates mid-season, dropping and adding races.

Remember that the FIA has already made an exception to its rules to allow for the European swing... they really aren't obligated to do it again.

jono
yep, champ car should have got their act together. iirc earl had it out 3 months before cc even started to talk about it!

[emjaya]

AMRS isn't exactly full of entries in any of its classes....4 cars does not a succesful series make, and the other thing you see is that the same driver is often driving in 4 categories.

It is the way it is. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who would risk never competing in an FIA affiliated race again for one event. Remember, it is not just ACCUS that is FIA. It is all 8 of those member organisations AND all of their affiliated clubs. The FIA control through affiliations approximately 95% in the world of motorsport (thats a realistic guess). You can argue there merits for as long as you like, but they are the government of motorsport...

yep, champ car should have got their act together. iirc earl had it out 3 months before cc even started to talk about it!

Yes, the AMRS is not as big huge. But the point is, they don't run under the FIA.

The FIA cannot stop any one from racing in it or impose sanctions agaist anyone who does.Restriction of Trade and all.

[Easy]

The ban I'm referring to regards the international calendar. Skippyworld, NASA, Midwest Council, IMCA, etc.. aren't included in that. Full rules are on fia.com, I don't suggest bothering.

The ban is more of a make an example/deterrent thing anyway from my understanding. It would be used in a circumstance where the FIA is being flagrantly disobeyed. Like if Champ Car were to just go ahead with the China race. The FIA would threaten bans and all of the sudden Sebastien Bourdais says I'm not jeopardising my shot at F1 or PT says I still want Nascar and neither competes.

[Warlock!]

This thread needs more Champcar cheerleading. Where are the usual suspects?

http://forum.bornheim.net/images/smiles/cheerleader.gif

[jonovision_man]

This thread needs more Champcar cheerleading. Where are the usual suspects?

http://forum.bornheim.net/images/smiles/cheerleader.gif

ChampCar shouldn't be racing in China anyway! This just makes the series more AMERICAN and that will be better in the long run! Johnson knows this, he cleverly figured out a way to get rid of the race and blame the FIA!!!

You guys are just haters, ChampCar's glory years are coming, JUST WAIT!

Keep the faith,,,,,,,,,

[SurfaceUnits]

Usual Suspect here,,,,, MoFo!!

AR1 sources, the first promoter, who was in breach of contract, is suing and the second promoter will promote the China race after it receives FIA approval.

He also goes to say KK came out and said it was ridiculous to not approve the race, since it's AFTER the F1 race, and that CC is not taking this lying down....

KK also says he has a meeting (no date given) with the ACCUS (the organization between our national series and the FIA) on the China issue, which is what he meant by not taking this lying down, i.e., politics unfurling, we haven't heard the last of this.

think about all of the experiences you've seen involving Kalkhoven and lawyers. (need to get ftg involved in this somehow)

[Easy]

I really don't see what meeting with ACCUS will do in this situation. The race was supposed to be on the international calendar and in China so Kalk-Ho should be meeting the with ASN of China not the US. This is probably just sedative for the visitors of Fantasy Island.

[SurfaceUnits]

Liaison between the ACCUS member clubs, other National Sporting Authorities and with the FIA
Preparation of listings on the international calendar
Issuance of international motor sport licenses to U.S. and foreign citizens living in the U.S.
Issuance of authorizations for foreign participation

Yes I see, ACCUS has nothing to do with anything international or foreign.

what fantasy island are you on?

[jonovision_man]

But the bottom line is that the FIA - not ACCUS - has to approve it. ACCUS can go to bat for ChampCar and try to push the issue, but Max has already said it's a dead issue.

And for anyone expecting Max to back down...

http://zerofilter.typepad.com/soc/images/_41801426_usgp.jpg

jono

[SurfaceUnits]

Mad Max is claiming that the FIA has "already made one exception to its scheduling procedures in order to accommodate Champ Car's plans" as a 'favor' to the CCWS and is therefore loath to grant another.

But, the date of the Zolder race was changed because BE objected to the CCWS staging a race a week before the Belgian GP at Spa. Which would mean that Max was making the scheduling change as an accommodation to Bernie, not the CCWS. Thus, with BE now making the objection to the Zhuhai race, it seems to me that it is Bernie who should be credited with the second strike and not Champ Car.

[SurfaceUnits]

And for anyone expecting Max to back down...

http://zerofilter.typepad.com/soc/images/_41801426_usgp.jpg

jonoWho paid the ~ $14million to the disgruntled fans?

[Dr. Corkski]

Who paid the ~ $14million to the disgruntled fans?Michelin? :laugh:

[SurfaceUnits]

Bernie Ecclestone volunteered to consult Ferrari boss Todt, who had not come to the meeting, and the president of the FIA, Max Mosley, who was not present at the race, and reconvene the meeting when he had responses.

Ecclestone returned at about 10:55 to inform the group that Todt had refused to agree to the chicane, maintaining that it was Michelin's problem and not his. Todt later denied that he had ever been consulted.

Some trust worthy peeps in that group.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6f/Blame_Mosley_banner.jpg/250px-Blame_Mosley_banner.jpg

[Spicoli]

Michelin? :laugh:

The class-action suit was finally tossed out for good the Friday before Indy 415/HondaFest (May 25th I think), and it mentioned that Mich had done more than enough with the free ttickies, apologies, etc, but underlying was that they actually did nothing wrong. Said that safety of dribers and spectators was the #1 concern, and they acted in accordance.

whatever. I still get in for free.

[Ed_Severson]

While I agree that Michelin did nothing wrong in the legal or ethical senses, they royally ****ed up to initiate that whole mess.

[chop456]

http://forum.bornheim.net/images/smiles/cheerleader.gif

She's hot.

Got digits?

[Ed_Severson]

1-800-,,,-,,,, ?

[Easy]

Liaison between the ACCUS member clubs, other National Sporting Authorities and with the FIA
Preparation of listings on the international calendar
Issuance of international motor sport licenses to U.S. and foreign citizens living in the U.S.
Issuance of authorizations for foreign participation

Yes I see, ACCUS has nothing to do with anything international or foreign.

what fantasy island are you on?

Thanks for the bold letters and ignoring the point. And good work digging through the FIA web site.

I'm sure everything will work out and there will be a Champ Car race in China that none of us will attend or see on television.

[jonovision_man]

While I agree that Michelin did nothing wrong in the legal or ethical senses, they royally ****ed up to initiate that whole mess.

I didn't really want to open up the debate on whose fault it is. Just illustrating that Max is more than willing to cut off his nose to spite his face rather than back down. He says the matter is closed, it's closed, it's tough to imagine a situation where ChampCar or ACCUS could pressure him to change his mind.

jono

[SurfaceUnits]

Thanks NP beats the hell out of BG&C.

[dando]

This thread needs more Champcar cheerleading. Where are the usual suspects?

http://forum.bornheim.net/images/smiles/cheerleader.gif

Gimme a C!
C!
Gimme a C!
C!
Gimme a W!
W!
Gimme an S!
S!

What's that spell?!? .9 !!11!!!!1!

:( :gomer:

-Kevin

[Ankf00]

why the jokes guys? it's all part of the 5 year plan.

none of you went to DeVry, you don't know how business works. gosh.

[Spicoli]

why the jokes guys? it's all part of the 5 year plan.

none of you went to DeVry, you don't know how business works. gosh.

DeVry? Is that the school Steve Johnson pimps?

[Rus'L]

Mad Max is claiming that the FIA has "already made one exception to its scheduling procedures in order to accommodate Champ Car's plans" as a 'favor' to the CCWS and is therefore loath to grant another.

He may be saying the favor was for allowing CCWS to race near the F1 race in the first place, not necessarily for the Zolder date change. But, if that is the case, with the EU keeping a close eye on the FIA, they really had no choice, so any claim to a favor is bogus.