Start for Portland Could Be Interesting [Archive]

Insomniac

06-10-07, 10:23 AM

Standing starts for the first time today.

“At 50 per cent throttle, we don't have enough power to get off the line so we stall,” says Justin Wilson. “At 52 percent, it's too much power, the wastegate dumps, and we stall. So it's not yet a precise technique. “We're relying on (steering wheel) lights - it's not like we have a rev counter - so it's not precise, and I'd say we're stalling one time in four.”

Hmmmmm. One in four. Rudimentary arithmetic would suggest that if 25% of standing starts results in stalls, with a 17 car grid, four cars will be left at the gate.

“That’s a fair comment,” Cotman observed about Wilson. “There’s always the potential that one car will stall. But each driver just needs to focus on what they’re doing and I’m determined to give them time to do that. They’ve been given the option of using a launch aid and fifty percent of them have chosen not to use it.
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/37937/

opinionated ow

06-10-07, 10:35 AM

:flame: :flame: :flame:

BURN HISTORY BURN

Indy

06-10-07, 10:36 AM

:flame: :flame: :flame:

BURN HISTORY BURN

Yeah, I know what you are saying, but as I read that article and imagined the scene of a standing start, I could not help but begin to anticipate it. I am pretty excited about it now.

opinionated ow

06-10-07, 11:06 AM

Yeah, I know what you are saying, but as I read that article and imagined the scene of a standing start, I could not help but begin to anticipate it. I am pretty excited about it now.

my dad had followed this series for years. his facial expression when i told him about the standing start was incredibly pained. told him cotman didn't have the balls to throw the black (hence the standing starts)...I think he knew what I meant.

Robstar

06-10-07, 11:06 AM

They'll work it out... bring it on I say...

Insomniac

06-10-07, 12:00 PM

I'm excited to see it as well, but I agree with the Cotman sentiment. He says:

“I am unimpressed by the rolling starts in this series. I don’t like them. They are difficult to police, we tell drivers what to do and they don’t follow directions. With a standing start, if you’re moving before the start you’re moving. End of story.”
This slow erosion of following the rules has been allowed to happen by the stewards by either their lack of penalties or weak penalties for infractions. If they seriously want good rolling starts then they have to have the courage to send a car (or cars) that mess it up to the back if they're going to do it again or black flag them for a drive through and let the race continue. A simple switch of positions isn't a penalty. Worst case they end up where they would've, best case they end up further ahead.

I know personally, I really enjoyed Cotman's first year (and maybe GF firing/not-firing him from that position after that season changed things) and really respected him acting on blocking at Houston last year.

They really need to enforce harshly. The stewards didn't ruin your race, you did by not following the rules! They need to get tough and the drivers will fall into line very quickly.

formulaben

06-10-07, 12:59 PM

:flame: :flame: :flame:

BURN HISTORY BURN

What, you yearn for Kenny Brack fing up the start 3 times in a row?! :shakehead

NismoZ

06-10-07, 04:04 PM

There is a design to it...a European design.;)

Hardpoint

06-10-07, 04:05 PM

Well done. Nice start. I'm shocked. :eek:

Methanolandbrats

06-10-07, 04:09 PM

Nice burnouts :thumbup:

pineapple

06-10-07, 04:12 PM

:thumbup: Well done. That was a long wait for the lights though.

Strange, we see the Americanization of F1 (option tires, le chien chanceaux rule) and the Euro-ization of CC (paddle shifters, standing starts)....is there a merger in the future? ;)

06-10-07, 04:18 PM

I liked it.

06-10-07, 04:21 PM

just amusing the g.

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/auto/car-smiley-004.gif

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/starwars/star-wars-smiley-023.gif

Insomniac

06-10-07, 06:15 PM

They over-delivered on the start. Expected a couple stalls and it went off perfectly. Did ABC and FOX cover the wrong races? ;)

DagoFast

06-10-07, 07:51 PM

What, you yearn for Kenny Brack fing up the start 3 times in a row?! :shakehead

Um, I'm not answering for OW, but for me, NO! I'm not pining for the days when wanks like Brack and Fernandez blew rolling starts.

I'm missing the days when real honest to god race drivers at the top level of the sports could execute a rolling start. Hell, I can go to Manzanitia any given weekend and they can still do it.

If I want to watch standing starts, I'll watch F1 or GP2. Oh wait! I already do!

jonovision_man

06-10-07, 08:35 PM

Love standing starts. :+ Went well, much better than a rolling start, keep it.

opinionated ow

06-10-07, 09:10 PM

Um, I'm not answering for OW, but for me, NO! I'm not pining for the days when wanks like Brack and Fernandez blew rolling starts.

I'm missing the days when real honest to god race drivers at the top level of the sports could execute a rolling start. Hell, I can go to Manzanitia any given weekend and they can still do it.

If I want to watch standing starts, I'll watch F1 or GP2. Oh wait! I already do!

you echo my thoughts exactly.

i got to something like 25 race meetings in the last year where rolling starts occurred. I think I saw 2 wave offs (one a sprintcar race, one CCWS at surfers) in all the races

RusH

06-10-07, 10:29 PM

CCWS looked like a pro organization today...:eek:
Standing starts worked, no yellows...just like F1 :gomer:
On the other hand, F1 today looked a bit Cartish.:D

..Seriously, the race was good, a pleasant surprise.:thumbup:

formulaben

06-11-07, 01:01 AM

Are rolling starts "historical"? Yes, but it only due to the past dominance of ovals. Just as Champ Car has evolved with no ovals, I think that it's about time that it was implemented because, yes we agree, the lack of professionalism in the series (among other things) has nearly dictated that it be considered. I'm not for it at ALL events, but certainly at Portland and Cleveland with their notorious first corner chicanery, it should be on the table.

I guess I just disagree with your "burn history burn" stance, because although Champ Car may not be honoring history as well as it could, the gomers seem to have a fire sale every year. Aside from disallowing the Offy this year, we're clearly on the high ground in that regard.

opinionated ow

06-11-07, 01:25 AM

formulaben

06-11-07, 01:35 AM

Standing starts are boring.

So is it history your care about or the show?

opinionated ow

06-11-07, 02:03 AM

So is it history your care about or the show?

the original comment was just to add to the series history burn pile disgrace list (ovals, variety etc). my later comment was down to standing starts being boring-and against what American racing is. so both.

and it was boring. the start was clean but it was boring:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6d7qFf7Kls

portland was my favourite race, last year was awesome. so was just about every year before it.

Boatdesigner

06-11-07, 09:30 AM

I didn't realize rolling starts were exciting, so I liked the fact that they all started the race at the same time (what a novel concept!). I also think it helped limit the carnage at turn one as they were probably going a little slower than normal at that point. Can't wait to see what happens in Cleveland though.

RHR_Fan

06-11-07, 10:50 AM

I was honestly scared about the standing start because if it was a big f*** up it would have been horrible for the series. But they all did a good job - look at Power going from 7th to 4th!

I do enjoy the rolling starts, but in the past few years they have sucked. Granted I can only go back as far as '96, but remember when we had 28 cars and all 14 rows were lined up, not just the first 4? Then the standing starts were awesome, but lately they've been, well, ehhh.

~Nicole

mueber

06-11-07, 01:36 PM

It was the first time they've completed the first lap without a yellow in a generation. If standing starts will allow that to happen, I want all standing starts.

Unlike almost everyone else here, I enjoyed the race, and I can enunciate exactly why, but I saw cars sliding around, a little passing, no yellows (unlike a certain other open wheel event held the same day), and a deserving winner.

There is hope if you look for it. See ya at Cleveland.

devilmaster

06-11-07, 02:20 PM

just amusing the g.

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/auto/car-smiley-004.gif

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/starwars/star-wars-smiley-023.gif

Riiiiiggggghhhhht. Blame the little one. :rofl: ;)

cameraman

06-11-07, 04:22 PM

In case anyone was wondering,

Katherine Legge spun, unassisted, and the car stalled.
Jan Heylen ran out of fuel.

Insomniac

06-11-07, 06:30 PM

In case anyone was wondering,

Katherine Legge spun, unassisted, and the car stalled.
Jan Heylen ran out of fuel.

I read Legge ran out of fuel too.

cameraman

06-11-07, 07:54 PM

Nope

Katherine Legge paid the penalty for being the first retirement in an attrition-free Grand Prix of Portland, losing a hard-fought 14th place when her car ground to a halt after a spin on lap 100 of 103.

The Briton had made a up a couple of places on her grid slot - the first time that the term 'grid' could legitimately apply to a Champ Car race following the series' adoption of standing starts - and was running strongly in a group that, at times, included Paul Tracy, Oriol Servia and Dale Coyne Racing team-mate Bruno Junqueira, when she lost the #11 Panoz approaching turn two.

Unable to restart, Legge had little option but to climb out and make her way back to the pits, the remaining laps dropping her to 17th in the final result.

"These things sometimes happen when you try to be aggressive," she sighed, "The sad thing about it was that I had a pretty good car today and, at times, was running times slightly faster than the leaders. All you can do is shake this off and move on. I'm already looking forward to Cleveland."

nissan gtp

06-11-07, 08:41 PM

...losing a hard-fought 14th place...

sorry, but :rofl:

beaner

06-11-07, 08:55 PM

sorry, but :rofl:

there aint a smilie big enough for that......

danica kicks ass you know

Insomniac

06-12-07, 08:19 AM

Nope

This is what I read:

Jan Heylen and Katherine Legge could have used a few laps of full-course yellow today, as they both dropped out of the race in the closing stages after running out of fuel.

...

Legge didn’t make it quite as far as Heylen, coasting to a stop in the Festival Chicane on Lap 99 just a few laps after having passed Dale Coyne Racing teammate Bruno Junqueira for 14th spot.

“These things happen sometimes when you try to be aggressive,” she said. “The sad thing about it was I had a pretty good car today that at times was running times slightly faster than the leaders. All you can do is shake this off and move on.”
http://www.speedtv.com/articles/auto/champcar/37960/?page=2

Ankf00

06-12-07, 11:22 AM

http://www2.hornfans.com/wwwthreads/images/icons/catfight.gif

:D

cameraman

06-12-07, 02:00 PM

http://www.katherinelegge.com/readLeggeNews.asp?nid=149422

:rolleyes:

Andrew Longman

06-12-07, 02:13 PM

The sad thing about it was that I had a pretty good car today and, at times, was running times slightly faster than the leaders

I seem to recall that she has had fastest lap a few times but never a stellar result. Wassup with that?

Insomniac

06-12-07, 03:02 PM

http://www.katherinelegge.com/readLeggeNews.asp?nid=149422

:rolleyes:

Did you get the quote in your previous post from her web site?

Insomniac

06-12-07, 03:03 PM

I seem to recall that she has had fastest lap a few times but never a stellar result. Wassup with that?

Just guessing, but maybe they weren't consistent fast laps and it's probably still hard to pass.

cameraman

06-12-07, 03:05 PM

Did you get the quote in your previous post from her web site?

Yes.

Dr. Corkski

06-12-07, 03:31 PM

I seem to recall that she has had fastest lap a few times but never a stellar result. Wassup with that?She would run laps using all the P2P she saved up since she was too slow to pass anyone.

Insomniac

06-12-07, 06:01 PM

Yes.

Heh, I wonder why they changed it. They never showed the spin on TV. Anyone at the race see if she spun or ran out of fuel?

cameraman

06-12-07, 06:06 PM

You would think she would know whether or not she spun.

Seems she can't remember...

I wonder who writes her web page.

datachicane

06-12-07, 08:05 PM

She ended up right in front of me, but I was looking up the track when it happened. We all assumed she'd run out of fuel as she was facing the right way near the narrow apex of T2, where there's hardly room for a full 360. She certainly didn't whip it around under power- that would be mighty hard to miss.

Indy

06-12-07, 11:39 PM

Consistency is the key to being fast over a long distance. This yellow free race on a very smooth road course really showed who has speed and who doesn't.

miatanut

06-13-07, 10:41 PM

In case anyone was wondering,

Katherine Legge spun, unassisted, and the car stalled.
Jan Heylen ran out of fuel.

My experience was the same as datachicane

I was sitting right there, across the track at grandstand C2.

I was following some other cars and all of the sudden saw her stopped right there, off the line. If she spun, I would think it would have caught my eye. At the time, I assumed it to be a fuel gamble that didn't pay off, even though two laps from the end is a long way to be off. She was one of the channels I was scanning and I didn't hear them in any debates on whether they could make it or not, so I suspect they just ended up with a short fill that they didn't know about.

Insomniac

06-14-07, 12:39 PM

My experience was the same as datachicane

I was sitting right there, across the track at grandstand C2.

I was following some other cars and all of the sudden saw her stopped right there, off the line. If she spun, I would think it would have caught my eye. At the time, I assumed it to be a fuel gamble that didn't pay off, even though two laps from the end is a long way to be off. She was one of the channels I was scanning and I didn't hear them in any debates on whether they could make it or not, so I suspect they just ended up with a short fill that they didn't know about.

She was also stopped well off the line from the apex of the turn. I'm not sure how she'd end up there in a spin.