Mario says unification talks derailed

[nrc]

According to Mario there was some flirting going on again.

Andretti revealed to National Speed Sport News that a couple of weeks ago, he was confident that progress was being made behind the scenes to create the scenario that longtime devotees of the American open-wheel scene have been dreaming of for more than a decade — a single series combining the best elements of Champ Car and the IndyCar Series, anchored by the Indy 500.
But a key meeting was cancelled at the last minute, and it appears the gulf between the two sanctioning organizations is as wide as ever.

“I almost cried,” Andretti admitted. “I had a situation put together where a really comprehensive meeting was set to take place and it got derailed.”
Mario declined to say why the latest potential open-wheel summit never took place. But he did say that he is getting increasingly fed up with inability of both sides to see the need to move forward into the future as a single entity.http://www.nationalspeedsportnews.com/racing-news/indy-car/indy-racing-league/champ-car-irl-talks-2018derailed2019

[Insomniac]

If you're going to share some of the information, share it all. Unless it's one of the owners of the series that derailed it.

[chop456]

I can't imagine anyone stupid enough to discount the importance of something like that.

Oh, wait. :tony:

[opinionated ow]

bugger unification. we need a fresh start, new management, new cars, big prize money and a big schedule.

[Elmo T]

Unless it's one of the owners of the series that derailed it.

I would not expect a single cancellation, other than a decision by one of the key players, to completely derail any mergification talks.

[mueber]

Ain't never gonna happen. Stop wasting time and get back to work.

[Elmo T]

Stop wasting time and get back to work.

Is that for forum readers or race series principals? ;)

I am not a business person or an expert in running a race series, but I find it interesting that these "talks" continue to sputter on when it seems both sides seem so far apart. In my small brain, I'd think that mergification is either good for racing & business or its bad.

[jonovision_man]

I am not a business person or an expert in running a race series, but I find it interesting that these "talks" continue to sputter on when it seems both sides seem so far apart. In my small brain, I'd think that mergification is either good for racing & business or its bad.

I'm not an expert in running a race series, but judging by results, neither are the people who are running the two race series. :p

jono

[KLang]

I think Mario should concentrate on talking some sense into FTG. He broke the damn thing eleven years ago. :mad:

Better yet maybe, If his idiot son would remove his four cars from the earl that would effectively shut them down.

[cameraman]

Better yet maybe, If his idiot son would remove his four cars from the earl that would effectively shut them down.

As long as the idiot son is riding around like this, he isn't going to quit anything.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.channel&ChannelID=60093673

He's a greedy weasel.

[Andrew Longman]

I think Mario should concentrate on talking some sense into FTG. He broke the damn thing eleven years ago. :mad:

Better yet maybe, If his idiot son would remove his four cars from the earl that would effectively shut them down.

But then who's going to pay for Michael to run around in his G4?

I think SJ comments about how CC business nearly shut down last year while all the unification talk was going on is telling. Unless unification talk is actually going to end in unification they should avoid it at all costs. Its just a distraction to sponsors, drivers, team, promoters, everyone.

And unification talks are not going to end in unification unless TG has a stroke, helicopter crash or epiphany.

Just a guess, but it sounds as if Mario might be driving this (now) out of concern for Marco. F1 isn't really in his near term future, especially without a better run in NA and he won't earn much of a living racing in NA unless he goes to NASCAR. For now he is just a Honda employee and at their mercy, not really in control of his career regardless of how well or bad he drives.

[Chief]

“Today the top drivers in either series, IRL or Champ Car, just don’t have the opportunity to earn at the level that we used to be earning in our sport. The top guys don’t earn the money that I used to make in the late 1970s, for God’s sake!
Hmmmm......, an all oval series based around the Indy 500 will take care of all that. :shakehead

Mario's got a better shot at seeing god too, just like us. **** them all.

[KLang]

I think SJ comments about how CC business nearly shut down last year while all the unification talk was going on is telling.

That really caught my attention when I read that too. Both SJ and KK have said recently that no talks are going on or expected. I hope they stick to their own business.

[Methanolandbrats]

FTG is nothing but a dumb track owner. He does'nt have the business skills to run a lemonade stand, but his family and toadies do not have the courage to tell him that. He will never accept the role of track owner. The Indy 500 will never be a part of the Champcar World Series. The only "merger" solution is for Champcar to be sold to FTG and then become the IndyCar World Series. That probably won't happen anytime soon either and if it did it would only be a matter of a few short years until he ran that into the ground too.

[FTG]

unification talks are not going to end in unification unless TG has a stroke, helicopter crash or epiphany.


Or they discover a cure for cocaine damaged brain cells.

[Insomniac]

I think Mario should concentrate on talking some sense into FTG. He broke the damn thing eleven years ago. :mad:

Better yet maybe, If his idiot son would remove his four cars from the earl that would effectively shut them down.

Is TG still the problem, or is it as rumored, other people who don't want it to happen, because it won't be so good for them? Do they whisper in his ear every time they catch wind of a possible merger?

Ohhh, and a mass exodus won't help. He still has Indy. I don't think he can be forced into it.

[dando]

And unification talks are not going to end in unification unless TG has a stroke, helicopter crash or aneurysm.


Fixed that part of your post for ya. :tony:

-Kevin

[Chief]

I believe ISC is pulling the strings here. The IRL is based solely on ISC subsidy of tracks in exchange for the 400. Joining the series' puts ISC in direct competition with the mother-of-all-AOW-series-spawn that would result. That's a no-no and Phoenix in '08 is proof that the war continues with FTG being led on by the ring in his nose.

[spinner26]

KK has too big an ego and grandson is too ignorant to see this through. They both deserve what comes their way in terms of losses for each league.:shakehead :(

[Chief]

I'd like to know why KK has "too big of an ego"? Please explain.....the past 1.5 years seems to have had KK eager to solve the riddle of the split and an idiot in his glass house at 16th and Georgetown unwilling to even admit the "other series" even exists. The IDIOT is proven to to be just that....so what makes KK his equal?

[Methanolandbrats]

KK has too big an ego and grandson is too ignorant to see this through. They both deserve what comes their way in terms of losses for each league.:shakehead :( FTG inherited and proceeded to destroy an institution that was considered impossible to **** up. That is his only accomplishment.

KK is a businessman who has taken chances with his OWN EARNED money and been very successful.

Now which one of the two should have an "ego" and which one of the two should run open-wheel racing?

[Racing Truth]

That really caught my attention when I read that too. Both SJ and KK have said recently that no talks are going on or expected. I hope they stick to their own business.

Whoa, whoa, hold it! IF this story is true, that wasn't true in the 1st place. There WERE talks going on the whole time.

So, do KK & SJ know WTF they really want?

[DagoFast]

It seems to me SJ just openly admitted that merely talking to FTG screwed up their business last time.

What amazes me is, nobody ever learns. It just happens over and over again.

KK just needs to categorically state that as long as he owns/runs ChampCar, there will be no further talks with the hoosier moron because he IS the problem.

Make it a banner quote on their website. Show it once during every race broadcast (instead of F1 spoilers :D ) Hell, put it in their mission statement!

If ever a company just needed to focus on the business at hand....

[Chief]

So, do KK & SJ know WTF they really want?
Yes, they stated so before the mIndy month started. Apparently Mario Andretti was the impetus for distraction this time and someone AGAIN screwed it all up. Gee, I wonder what cocaine abusing inheritor could have played possum again? Could it have been the European IRL seeking leader? Or the free ticket bundled IRL leader or dumping Michigan IRL leader by adding the IRL Phoenix date leader? Naaah, couldn't be Tony George, he's always been upfront and stated he want s what's best for AOW.....:flame:

Undermining the sport is all Tony wants, so he can claim the top prize of master of AOW. No other detail is needed, we've found the culprit...Tony George.

[Racing Truth]

Yes, they stated so before the mIndy month started. Apparently Mario Andretti was the impetus for distraction this time and someone AGAIN screwed it all up. Gee, I wonder what cocaine abusing inheritor could have played possum again? Could it have been the European IRL seeking leader? Or the free ticket bundled IRL leader or dumping Michigan IRL leader by adding the IRL Phoenix date leader? Naaah, couldn't be Tony George, he's always been upfront and stated he want s what's best for AOW.....:flame:

Undermining the sport is all Tony wants, so he can claim the top prize of master of AOW. No other detail is needed, we've found the culprit...Tony George.

Understood, but why not just say, "We're done here," if they really mean it? If it was close, like Mario says, they've been talking all along.

[Methanolandbrats]

Mario has a pretty bad case of Indyitis, so he might not be that objective about "the talks". I'm sure he wants his grandson's face on the Bork Warmer.

[KLang]

Whoa, whoa, hold it! IF this story is true, that wasn't true in the 1st place. There WERE talks going on the whole time.

So, do KK & SJ know WTF they really want?

Not a whole lot of details in the NSSN article. Don't know who Mario was actually talking to.

[Andrew Longman]

Wasn't TG on Wind Tunnel many months ago saying he was way overdue returning a phone call to KK? He seemed uninterested in talking but perhaps that was the beginning of what Mario was trying to put together

[oddlycalm]

Mario's mistake is trying to appeal to TG higher principles as the man has none. Minus some kind of pain or leverage to get TG to the table an agreement will never get done. Honda is the only entity I can think of that's in a position to inflict that much pain and there is not guarantee that even that would get the job done. TG's wealth and stupidity effectively insulates him against outside pressures.

oc

[spinner26]

I'd like to know why KK has "too big of an ego"? Please explain.....the past 1.5 years seems to have had KK eager to solve the riddle of the split and an idiot in his glass house at 16th and Georgetown unwilling to even admit the "other series" even exists. The IDIOT is proven to to be just that....so what makes KK his equal?

KK has a group of business partners and leaders led by Steve Johnson who have proven to be incompetent in the public eye.

I am not claiming to be an astute business owner or leader of any racing series nor do I have the cabbage to afford to do so, just stating what seems to be public perception.

KK has a track record of shady business practices and has so far proven he does not have the answer to put CC ahead of the IRL on any sort of map. KK is 100% delusional if he for one second thinks that he has ANY asset worth reaping him any position in a newly formed series other than team owner.

I would equally say the same about the idiot grandson, yes he is ultimately the owner of IMS but outside of that he should be no more than a team owner in a newly formed series.

[KLang]

KK has a track record of shady business practices

You been hanging out with an eskimo lately? :tony:

[spinner26]

You been hanging out with an eskimo lately? :tony:

Wilke said,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,ain't that gospel?:confused:

[Chief]

KK is 100% delusional if he for one second thinks that he has ANY asset worth reaping him any position in a newly formed series other than team owner.
Delusional....have you been drinking?

[jonovision_man]

KK has a track record of shady business practices and has so far proven he does not have the answer to put CC ahead of the IRL on any sort of map. KK is 100% delusional if he for one second thinks that he has ANY asset worth reaping him any position in a newly formed series other than team owner.

I'm not convinced on the shady business practices.

He doesn't have the answer to put CC ahead of the IRL, but the IRL has this little race called the Indy 500 that gives them a bit of an advantage... in fact their entire series owes its life to that one race, while ChampCar has been living and dying on its own appeal. OK, mostly dying, but still. :)

Personally I don't really care if KK is involved, he's made enough questionable decisions over the years that I could take or leave him.

But the king of questionable decisions is TG, splitting up US OW in the first place was much much more than a questionable decision, it was lunacy.

So while I like the racing in both series, I would love to leave both management teams behind.... all fantasy of course, both series and both owners are here for the long haul.

jono

[spinner26]

So while I like the racing in both series, I would love to leave both management teams behind.... all fantasy of course, both series and both owners are here for the long haul.

jono

Spot on, rid each series of it's current and past ownership partners, start anew and kumbaya

[Racing Truth]

KK has a group of business partners and leaders led by Steve Johnson who have proven to be incompetent in the public eye.

I am not claiming to be an astute business owner or leader of any racing series nor do I have the cabbage to afford to do so, just stating what seems to be public perception.

KK has a track record of shady business practices and has so far proven he does not have the answer to put CC ahead of the IRL on any sort of map. KK is 100% delusional if he for one second thinks that he has ANY asset worth reaping him any position in a newly formed series other than team owner.

I would equally say the same about the idiot grandson, yes he is ultimately the owner of IMS but outside of that he should be no more than a team owner in a newly formed series.

The shady business practices are HIGHLY debatable, to be kind. Yeah, I know, JDSU, but I'm not convinced, at all, there's anything of merit there.

That said, I agree with your conclusion (and jono's). Too bad it'll never happen.

[Racing Truth]

I would not expect a single cancellation, other than a decision by one of the key players, to completely derail any mergification talks.

Sounds like what happened. Likely TG, of course, but Mario gave no clue one way or the other.

Furthermore, based on the quotes Oreo includes, Mario seemed to be a bit harsher towards CC. Dunno why, or if its just selective quotation.

[nrc]

Champ car needs to recognize that there's absolutely no point in talking unification unless there is a significant shift in circumstances to their advantage. There are only three events that would qualify: change of leadership at the speedway, loss of the IRL TV deal, or loss of the IRL engine supplier.

Unless one of those three things happens it's really a waste of time because George isn't going to budge off his requirement for control. The sad thing is that with Champ car looking for another new President that person is likely to once again need to find out for himself just how futile the negotiation process is.

[Methanolandbrats]

Champ car needs to recognize that there's absolutely no point in talking unification unless there is a significant shift in circumstances to their advantage. There are only three events that would qualify: change of leadership at the speedway, loss of the IRL TV deal, or loss of the IRL engine supplier.

Unless one of those three things happens it's really a waste of time because George isn't going to budge off his requirement for control. The sad thing is that with Champ car looking for another new President that person is likely to once again need to find out for himself just how futile the negotiation process is. Actually, Tony probably has enough money to build his own engines and buy every second of TV time, so he ain't ever gonna fold his tent.

[Insomniac]

Champ car needs to recognize that there's absolutely no point in talking unification unless there is a significant shift in circumstances to their advantage. There are only three events that would qualify: change of leadership at the speedway, loss of the IRL TV deal, or loss of the IRL engine supplier.

Unless one of those three things happens it's really a waste of time because George isn't going to budge off his requirement for control. The sad thing is that with Champ car looking for another new President that person is likely to once again need to find out for himself just how futile the negotiation process is.

It would be nice if someone, after 5+ years of this might realize they shouldn't put the cart in front of the horse.

[nrc]

Actually, Tony probably has enough money to build his own engines and buy every second of TV time, so he ain't ever gonna fold his tent.

I don't think Tony's pockets are bottomless and he doesn't have sole control of the Indy purse strings.

Honda is bringing a lot of money to promotion and support both directly and indirectly through B2B sponsorships. I'm not saying Tony would come out with a white flag, I'm saying it would create an environment where talks might be worthwhile.

[stroker]

As long as TG is NASCAR's bitch there's no point in wasting one minute talking about a merge.

[NismoZ]

In fact now that he doesn't have to lose a bundle on the F-1 date he can go after a 2nd NASCAB race. He won't want/need CC if he can do that. Modify the infield track for Moto GP, run the 500 and 2 'CAB races and he's set.

[SurfaceUnits]

The two biggest on-camera irl and/or megification shills have spoken



One thing I found really interesting was how Dave shot down the "last call" caller by saying the two series are completely different and there is nothing to merge anymore.



did anyone notice that RM, in response to stupid Linda from Iowa, said that m3&@3& won't happen? People are getting the message...)

[RacinM3]

Maybe if all of them...Mario included....would just shut the hell up, have talks, and hammer it out, it might succeed.

At this point in time, this one-time hardcore CART fan is beginning to view TG and KK in the same light. Both stand in the way of a single US OW Series.

Honestly though, it's too late. US OW is doomed to third-tier status in north america, probably forever.

[Rogue Leader]

Maybe if all of them...Mario included....would just shut the hell up, have talks, and hammer it out, it might succeed.

At this point in time, this one-time hardcore CART fan is beginning to view TG and KK in the same light. Both stand in the way of a single US OW Series.

Honestly though, it's too late. US OW is doomed to third-tier status in north america, probably forever.

Maybe all the top teams should break away and form a THIRD series! It could work! They could run on short tracks and hillclimbs!

[Methanolandbrats]

Considering he lost F1 and now lost MIS, Tony has had a bad week. If this does'nt wake him up or inspire his toadies to revolt, nothing will.

[Al Czervik]

Considering he lost F1 and now lost MIS, Tony has had a bad week. If this does'nt wake him up or inspire his toadies to revolt, nothing will.

Trust me, Tony & his toadies are revolting.


- Oh, you meant revolt like revolution. Oops.

[opinionated ow]

- Oh, you meant revolt like revolution. Oops.

eek...geography flashbacks

[Spicoli]

Trust me, Tony & his toadies are revolting.


- Oh, you meant revolt like revolution. Oops.:D