View Full Version : San Jose 2007
Insomniac
07-27-07, 06:01 PM
Bourdais' beat down on the rest of the field continues. Goes from P17 to P1 in qualifying at the end of the session.
Seabass evidently struggled through Saturday practice back in 15th with multiple trips into the run-off. Tracy P12 with multiple visits to the tire barriers.
1 G. Rahal
2 R. Doornbos
3 O. Servia
4 W. Power
Of course since Seabass has a front row spot locked up it won't matter for the race even if he struggles in Q2. :\
Insomniac
07-28-07, 04:39 PM
He was saying they were having brake issues yesterday.
“The first run I spent probably more time on the escape road than on the track. We have a brake issue, but we didn't have any time to fix it at lunchtime. We have variable brake values that keeps on tricking me; one locks the rears and one locks the fronts. It's very difficult out there.”
jonovision_man
07-28-07, 07:28 PM
The circuit is just so crappy... I have a hard time overcoming that and actually watching this race. I guess if I'm home and it's on I'll watch it.
jono
Winston Wolfe
07-28-07, 07:48 PM
The circuit is just so crappy... I have a hard time overcoming that and actually watching this race. I guess if I'm home and it's on I'll watch it.
jono
when you are home sitting on that fence that you like to frequent :rolleyes: ... you can think about this:
-it is likely that the race makes money.
-it is likely that since the race is in "Silicon Valley" it attracts sponsors
-it is likely that KK and Co like having it there and since they are paying for this mess, then they can keep it there.
so while this may allow us to see the cars back at road america - I for one, am willing to endure another volleyball\ concert \ drifting \ drinking \ part in the streets \ Champcar race, if it keeps the series going another year....
Methanolandbrats
07-28-07, 07:57 PM
They took out the mogul :cry:
Insomniac
07-28-07, 08:40 PM
Wow. Top 13 cars covered by 0.4s!
Methanolandbrats
07-28-07, 09:06 PM
Wow. Top 13 cars covered by 0.4s! That is often the case at any fast autocross.
- I for one, am willing to endure another volleyball\ concert \ drifting \ drinking \ party in the streets \ Champcar race, if it keeps the series going another year....
Me too. :thumbup:
It's not easy though, all that drinking and partying in the streets. And watching that beach volleyball is a killer. :D ;)
The circuit is just so crappy... I have a hard time overcoming that and actually watching this race. I guess if I'm home and it's on I'll watch it.
jono
6:00 pm on The Score
Link (http://www.thescore.ca/station/listings.asp)
Ted
opinionated ow
07-29-07, 08:41 AM
did they remove half a mile of track this year, instead of inserting half a mile?
Insomniac
07-29-07, 09:52 AM
did they remove half a mile of track this year, instead of inserting half a mile?
The track is unchanged this year.
Lux Interior
07-29-07, 09:58 AM
I'll check it out even though it is my least favorite cc track.
Insomniac
07-29-07, 01:26 PM
Some photos of the CDW team. Some of the pictures are from the pit stand and inside their transporter.
http://news.com.com/2300-11389_3-6199431-1.html?tag=ne.gall.pg
jonovision_man
07-29-07, 04:57 PM
when you are home sitting on that fence that you like to frequent ... you can think about this:
-it is likely that the race makes money.
-it is likely that since the race is in "Silicon Valley" it attracts sponsors
-it is likely that KK and Co like having it there and since they are paying for this mess, then they can keep it there.
so while this may allow us to see the cars back at road america - I for one, am willing to endure another volleyball\ concert \ drifting \ drinking \ part in the streets \ Champcar race, if it keeps the series going another year....
While you're sitting at home leading the cheers about how great the worst circuit being actively raced on the planet is... :p
Look, I have absolutely no problem with street races when they're done right.
This one is clearly not, anyone who tells you different is no better than the IRL fan who claims Belle Island is better than MIS.
jono
While you're sitting at home leading the cheers about how great the worst circuit being actively raced on the planet is... :p Didn't sound like cheers to me. Sounded like, "It sucks but they need the money."
Some photos of the CDW team. Some of the pictures are from the pit stand and inside their transporter.
http://news.com.com/2300-11389_3-6199431-1.html?tag=ne.gall.pg
Some cool shots. Thanks.
jonovision_man
07-29-07, 06:08 PM
Didn't sound like cheers to me. Sounded like, "It sucks but they need the money."
They could have got the money and still designed a good track.
How'd you guys like Doornbos not being able to go slow enough to avoid contact in T1? :p :rofl: Classic.
jono
FCYTravis
07-29-07, 06:13 PM
What a scintillating first five laps. :shakehead
Spicoli
07-29-07, 06:32 PM
Good to see Rahole Sr. pimping the series. :rofl:
And Serbia in front. ;)
Spicoli
07-29-07, 06:40 PM
biggie crowd, sunny day :)
Too bad it's almost impossible to pass. :shakehead
..needs more hairpin
Spicoli
07-29-07, 07:09 PM
Too bad it's almost impossible to pass. :shakehead
..needs more hairpins
Hampsturd looks like a complete idiot with that statement.:laugh:
jonovision_man
07-29-07, 07:10 PM
Jani-mania!!! :D Looks awesome out there.
Maybe he has a golf car in his living room.
jono
Spicoli
07-29-07, 07:28 PM
this is actually turning into a hellova race. nice restart. :thumbup:
jonovision_man
07-29-07, 07:55 PM
That was a very decent race in the end!
Doornbos is just f'n cool, he's my favourite driver now. :)
jono
Enjoyable race.:thumbup:
Especially for a place where 'you can't pass'. :laugh:
I like Turn 1, now that they have a run off. Long straight into a hairpin is unique. The fact that there are no other places to pass means that a lot happens there. IMO it's more interesting than Monaco.
jonovision_man
07-29-07, 08:22 PM
I like Turn 1, now that they have a run off. Long straight into a hairpin is unique. The fact that there are no other places to pass means that a lot happens there. IMO it's more interesting than Monaco.
It's just too slow and narrow. Hockenheim's hairpin is way way way better, also preceded by a straight.
Doornbos slooowly going into the back of whoever that was was lame, and Clarke repeating basically the same thing a few laps later... need to be able to go through there two-wide, take different lines.
jono
Insomniac
07-29-07, 08:35 PM
They could have got the money and still designed a good track.
How'd you guys like Doornbos not being able to go slow enough to avoid contact in T1? :p :rofl: Classic.
jono
Actually, he said he was stopped and somehow hit someone. That's a first! :D
Insomniac
07-29-07, 08:39 PM
What a scintillating first five laps. :shakehead
I missed them because of a storm. On the live timing I wondered how PT got so many spots without a wreck. They showed a replay later and he just went around the outside.
What's up with FCR and fuel? I don't think 1. That PT managed to burn 3 more laps of fuel or, conversely, 2. the rest of the field could save significantly more than him.
It's just too slow and narrow. Hockenheim's hairpin is way way way better, also preceded by a straight.
Doornbos slooowly going into the back of whoever that was was lame, and Clarke repeating basically the same thing a few laps later... need to be able to go through there two-wide, take different lines.
jono
You're pathetic. It is what it was.....as just about every CCWS race has been....entertaining from every aspect. Comparing a castrated Hockenheim to some bastardized street course that was more entertaining is a win for CCWS. It sucks to start 15th and win, doesn't it? Two could fit but it was all on the drivers to make it work. Making it easier for two wide doesn't....your failure to understand that is lame.
jonovision_man
07-29-07, 08:48 PM
You're pathetic. It is what it was.....as just about every CCWS race has been....entertaining from every aspect. Comparing a castrated Hockenheim to some bastardized street course that was more entertaining is a win for CCWS. It sucks to start 15th and win, doesn't it? Two could fit but it was all on the drivers to make it work. Making it easier for two wide doesn't....your failure to understand that is lame.
Did you even watch the first laps of this race?
Seriously. T1 was a mess, a lame pathetic mess.
And Hockenheim's hairpin is one of the most entertaining corners in all of racing, anyone who tells you different doesn't watch F1. There are so many lines through there, guys come back under each other, they push each other to the edges, it's exactly what a hairpin should be.
San Jose is more like the kind of corner you'd expect in a McDonald's drive-thru.
jono
Yes I did watch the first 5 laps....there were about 95 other laps that decided the race, not that apparently you and O'Gorman cared to whine about that. OH, what agony you must have endured watching the 14th, 15TH and 16th place cars botch the start. AND, what makes that even more IRONIC is the 15th place WRECKER wins the race. Get a clue.
I think you have to admit that after that initial snafu it turned out to be a very good race. Funny - excellant track at Edmonton turns in the snoozer of the season and the crappy track at San Jose turns in something like six passes for the lead.
As for the contact in the hairpin, I suspect its the same issue that makes it unpossible not to creep on the start (sez seabass) making it in difficult to keep the thing coasting through the corner with the clutch in.
jonovision_man
07-29-07, 09:03 PM
Yes I did watch the first 5 laps....there were about 95 other laps that decided the race, not that apparently you and O'Gorman cared to whine about that.
Boy I wish I had said:
That was a very decent race in the end!
Oh wait, I did. :p :rolleyes: In this thread no less.
Sometimes, bad tracks have good races, and sometimes one bad corner doesn't ruin the whole thing.
jono
RHR_Fan
07-29-07, 09:06 PM
Good race, but if I hear anyone refer to Doornbos as Bobby D one more time. :mad:
~Nicole
Congratulations on your accomplishment. More importantly, Dan Clarke is an idiot and FCR is imploding though apparently it all has the impact of Katherine Legge into the turn 2 wall to you but I digress...
Good race, but if I hear anyone refer to Doornbos as Bobby D one more time. :mad:
~Nicole
Doorknobs? :p
Dr. Corkski
07-29-07, 09:39 PM
That was great showcase of San Jose getting it right today.
http://img53.imageshack.us/img53/9582/sabercatskx1.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/1976/gyi0000545096072919lowejb2.jpg
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/7784/gyi00005446080729171024rk1.jpg
Matt Grieb deserves a shot with the NFL. :thumbup:
FTG "I like Turn 1, now that they have a run off. Long straight into a hairpin is unique. The fact that there are no other places to pass means that a lot happens there. IMO it's more interesting than Monaco."
I guess that you have not yet been to Monaco for the race.
Decent race for a questionable course. I would like to see another passing corner though. All tracks should have at least two.
Insomniac
07-30-07, 12:02 AM
Does anyone here text an answer?
Can someone please tell Rick Benjamin it's a forward slash (or just slash)?
Jag_Warrior
07-30-07, 12:07 AM
I reeeally enjoyed that. :cool:
After the initial Lap 1, Turn 1 debacle, it turned out to be an enjoyable race. For once, the whole family joined me to watch it. We've all been crying out for meaningful passes; well, we were rewarded with several yesterday, where we least expected them.
Now, try to picture this -- the IRL folks hitting Turn 1 for the first time. Oh, the humanity!
Lux Interior
07-30-07, 10:04 AM
After hearing Sebastien whine, I hope that Bobby Doorknob brings home the championship for Minardi. That would be a great way for Paul Stoddart to end his first season in the series. :thumbup:
I guess that you have not yet been to Monaco for the race.
Nope, but I've seen the parade on TV. The huge yachts in the harbor are the most interesting thing there, IMHO.
Spicoli
07-30-07, 10:12 AM
After hearing Sebastien whine, I hope that Bobby Doorknob brings home the championship for Minardi. That would be a great way for Paul Stoddart to end his first season in the series. :thumbup:
bobby Doorknobs would make an excellent champ. unlike SB.:shakehead
extramundane
07-30-07, 10:22 AM
After hearing Sebastien whine, I hope that Bobby Doorknob brings home the championship for Minardi.
Agree 100%. :thumbup:
Did you even watch the first laps of this race?
Seriously.
Yep. I saw three cars get through side by side with no damage on lap one. I saw one lost front wing. I don't consider that a mess. I've seen a lot more damage L1, T1 on other tracks. They were slow, but so what? Getting the car slowed down is a part of racing.
Later on, I saw Servia pass and get repassed right away in T1. That is the kind of battling for position that I enjoy.
Just because T1 sucked year 1, doesn't mean it sucks now. When the track changes, my opinion changes.
opinionated ow
07-30-07, 10:54 AM
just watched the first dozen or so laps of our (admittedly shoddy) broadcast. I think there was one green flag lap in that time. I guarantee 95% of casual fans turned it off. Stuff like that mess has to be eliminated, even if that means leaving dodgy places like san jose.
gerhard911
07-30-07, 11:24 AM
Nope, but I've seen the parade on TV. The huge yachts in the harbor are the most interesting thing there, IMHO.
Actually it's the women on those yachts that are the most interesting thing there IMHO :p
greenie
07-30-07, 12:41 PM
That was a very decent race in the end!
Doornbos is just f'n cool, he's my favourite driver now. :)
jono
,,,,, moment :gomer: ,,,,,
I chatted w/Doornbos right before the race - one of the nicest doods and in a great mood despite his terrible starting spot. He's up there on my list too.
Weather was perfect, great crowd, awesome race (actually the FBMW and Atlantics races were also good as well).
I expected nothing from SJ and was definitely surprised on the positive side. :thumbup:
Methanolandbrats
07-30-07, 01:27 PM
The "track" sucks and the race was a confusing mess. The ridiculous hairpin makes the slow corner at Long Beach look like the 130R. :yuck:
jonovision_man
07-30-07, 01:40 PM
Yep. I saw three cars get through side by side with no damage on lap one. I saw one lost front wing. I don't consider that a mess. I've seen a lot more damage L1, T1 on other tracks. They were slow, but so what? Getting the car slowed down is a part of racing.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Doornbos wasn't just going slow, he was almost completely stopped. If he was in the McDonald's drive-thru they could have handed him his order.
If that's what you want to see on a race track, fill your boots, but it wasn't pretty IMO.
jono
jonovision_man
07-30-07, 01:46 PM
The "track" sucks and the race was a confusing mess. The ridiculous hairpin makes the slow corner at Long Beach look like the 130R. :yuck:
The track sucs, the race was pretty exciting and entertaining.
On another note - the coverage was better. I've been stuck with the international feed for the Canadian races, nice to get back to the good one.
jono
Insomniac
07-30-07, 01:53 PM
Was there a standing start?
jonovision_man
07-30-07, 01:57 PM
Was there a standing start?
Yup! Went well.
jono
If that's what you want to see on a race track, fill your boots, but it wasn't pretty IMO.
Yeah, it really destroyed the race.....:rolleyes:
Kallal has already posted YouTube video showing racing in and out of that hairpin.....you're making your opinion even more worthless everytime anyone watches it. It's not the kink at RA, or the Esses at Watkins or even the Corkscrew at Laguna.....you must have absolutely unrealistic expectations. Have you ever been to a race?
TKGAngel
07-30-07, 02:08 PM
I was impressed that the broadcast crew managed to suss out that it was SeeBass' fault (and not mechanical error) that lead to his little oopsie at the beginning of the race.
The one thing that stood out to me was the lack of interviews with eliminated drivers. I would have loved to have heard Wilson's two cents about what happened or Speedy Dan's take on spending over $30,000 in carbon fiber costs in the beginning of the race.
One final thing...Casa de KK looks to be a pretty fancy place based on that :30 story during the race.
The "track" sucks and the race was a confusing mess.
Couldn't keep track of all the lead changes? :)
greenie
07-30-07, 02:54 PM
I was impressed that the broadcast crew managed to suss out that it was SeeBass' fault (and not mechanical error) that lead to his little oopsie at the beginning of the race.
That part was unclear to me at the track - I will watch it tonight. I thought that Bordais had rolled a little early prior to the start and we were guessing that race control made him swap spots, but I guess that obviously was incorrect. :gomer:
TKGAngel
07-30-07, 03:18 PM
That part was unclear to me at the track - I will watch it tonight. I thought that Bordais had rolled a little early prior to the start and we were guessing that race control made him swap spots, but I guess that obviously was incorrect. :gomer:
From what the TV crew said, the drivers go through turn one with one hand on the wheel, using a crossover steering technique. They think that when Bourdais put his other hand back on the wheel, he grabbed the ignition switch by mistake. Also mentioned was a Bourdais comment along the lines of "we'll talk about it later," which I took to mean "I screwed up, but don't want to admit it publicly."
Insomniac
07-30-07, 03:44 PM
Didn't he admit it was his fault during the post race interview? I know he said he was being greedy during the caution keeping it in 7th. I thought he said he made a mistake and JW got by him. (Of course, that was no favor to Justin since Speedy Dan drove into him.)
TKGAngel
07-30-07, 03:56 PM
Didn't he admit it was his fault during the post race interview? I know he said he was being greedy during the caution keeping it in 7th. I thought he said he made a mistake and JW got by him. (Of course, that was no favor to Justin since Speedy Dan drove into him.)
He very well may have. I kind of zoned out at that point. I was untangling a knot in the yarn I was knitting with (middle of summer and I'm knitting).
RHR_Fan
07-30-07, 03:58 PM
The one thing that stood out to me was the lack of interviews with eliminated drivers. I would have loved to have heard Wilson's two cents about what happened or Speedy Dan's take on spending over $30,000 in carbon fiber costs in the beginning of the race.
I agree. Sometimes they're good at that, sometimes they're not. Something (hopefully) to be done on a more consistent basis from now on or at least in '08.
~Nicole
Here is a quote from the team release (http://www.champcarworldseries.com/News/Article.asp?ID=12005)
"It was a tough day for the McDonald's team," said Bourdais. "I made a mistake under yellow. Actually I made the first mistake after passing Justin after making a good start. I braked on the inside at the hairpin so that I didn't squeeze him and then had a tough time in the hairpin coming from the opposite side since I ran wide in Turn 2. Then, during the yellow I got a little greedy I guess. I just tried to save too much fuel and tried seventh gear with low revs at the hairpin and when I released the clutch the car died. It was a tough day for the McDonald's team."
I think that is the actual quote from the TV coverage.
And, to more important issues. :D
http://www.champcarworldseries.com/content/photos/2007/By800/20070730P_0001.jpg
What a scintillating first five laps. :shakehead
No doubt. But Servia running up front was a nice outcome. I was hoping to see him chase down Jani for second. He'd already passed him twice.
Methanolandbrats
07-30-07, 04:44 PM
Yup! Went well.
jono It was a great start! Very exciting..................kinda cratered just after that :(
jonovision_man
07-30-07, 06:15 PM
Yeah, it really destroyed the race.....:rolleyes:
Kallal has already posted YouTube video showing racing in and out of that hairpin.....you're making your opinion even more worthless everytime anyone watches it. It's not the kink at RA, or the Esses at Watkins or even the Corkscrew at Laguna.....you must have absolutely unrealistic expectations. Have you ever been to a race?
Wow, youtube? :p
Really speaks to the quality of USOW that you've lowered your expectations to the point where expecting more than San Jose is unrealistic.
It's the worst corner on the worst track ChampCar races on.
jono
Wow, youtube? :p
Really speaks to the quality of USOW that you've lowered your expectations to the point where expecting more than San Jose is unrealistic.
I expected San Jose to suck and it didn't. It is what it was....that's the reality. You snobishly wanted it to suck so you could throw the wet blanket around it like you have. I also have a suspicion you don't have a clue about what you speak anyway...
pitwall3
07-30-07, 09:41 PM
This is the youtube footage put together by Albert Kallal that was posted on another forum. Its worth a look see. Hey Jono/Opinionated OW enjoy. I know I did. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl5C-4_PYBc
jonovision_man
07-30-07, 10:24 PM
I expected San Jose to suck
hater. :p
You snobishly wanted it to suck
Yes, I wanted to spend 2 hours of my life watching a sucky race. Pffft.
I watched it, I enjoyed it.
But it's still a crap track.
so you could throw the wet blanket around it like you have. I also have a suspicion you don't have a clue about what you speak anyway...
Ok Chief.
jono
This is the youtube footage put together by Albert Kallal that was posted on another forum. Its worth a look see. Hey Jono/Opinionated OW enjoy. I know I did. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl5C-4_PYBc
I must say that's some fine lurking there, Pitwall.:thumbup:
And thanks for the link. :)
greenie
07-30-07, 11:07 PM
But it's still a crap track.
Your arguments for it being a crap track will fall by the wayside if the racing continues to be close to as good as it was on Sunday. And it wasn't just Champ Car - Atlantics and FBMW were also excellent. In fact, I distinctly recall (because I was there too) an Atlantics race in Vegas that was comparatively an ugly ass dog despite being on what's regarded as a superior track. Ditto Edmonton re Champ Car - as pointed out above.
If they can pull off races like that on a regular basis (and they have been good recently), they will get the fans out to the track and hopefully eventually watching on TV.
Also, comparing SJ to an F1 track is a bit absurd, and in any event is often misplaced IMO. F1 tracks wind up most of the time just like your everyday ordinary SJ because the racing line sets in and the wide surface becomes a narrow one lane road. The pretty pictures and named corners don't mean squat if the racing is the suck IMO.
SJ is what it is - if it keeps producing good racing, isn't that what counts?
manic mechanic
07-30-07, 11:18 PM
hater. :p
Yes, I wanted to spend 2 hours of my life watching a sucky race. Pffft.
I watched it, I enjoyed it.
But it's still a crap track.
Ok Chief.
jono
Ya know jono, you will continue to think that way UNTIL you actually attend that race.
San Jose is about much more than the track. I will admit that it's small and it would be nice to see at least one more passing area, but having been there all 3 years of the event I will tell you one thing: THE BUZZ around town in the weeks/days leading up to the race is phenomenal! :thumbup:
I have attended Long Beach for 14+ years and there is no comparison... The San Jose area gets behind this event to the point that it makes Long Beach look like it's put on by amateurs.
Also, you should factor in that there isn't room for the city to change the streets to better accomodate the racing as was done over the years in LB.
And BTW, wasn't there a big wreck at TO within the first few corners this year?
Make the journey to SJ next year and see for yourself.
The ticket prices are among the lowest on the circuit ($103.25 for 3 day Gold GS including paddock) for the temporary venues, and lodgings are fairly reasonable if you don't care about staying a mile away (staying at one of the hotels inside the circuit or across the street can get pricey).
Many good places are right on the bus line that runs to the hairpin and can be had for ~$100 a night or less (vs $200+ for an on-circuit room). I spent $79 a night for a room 1/2 mile away (over by HP Pavillion) this year and I could hear the Atlantics out for warmup in the morning when I stepped outside to have a smoke.
The airport is about 3 miles away and a cab ride to/from Downtown runs about $10. Airport shuttles can cost even less.
Judge for yourself...The atmosphere is killer and the value is there.
If you are gonna throw stones, best not stand in a glass house...
manic
I expected San Jose to suck and it didn't. It is what it was....that's the reality. You snobishly wanted it to suck so you could throw the wet blanket around it like you have. I also have a suspicion you don't have a clue about what you speak anyway...
I think you make some good points about the race. Stick with that.
greenie
07-31-07, 01:08 AM
Ya know jono, you will continue to think that way UNTIL you actually attend that race.
San Jose is about much more than the track. I will admit that it's small and it would be nice to see at least one more passing area, but having been there all 3 years of the event I will tell you one thing: THE BUZZ around town in the weeks/days leading up to the race is phenomenal! :thumbup:
I have attended Long Beach for 14+ years and there is no comparison... The San Jose area gets behind this event to the point that it makes Long Beach look like it's put on by amateurs.
Also, you should factor in that there isn't room for the city to change the streets to better accomodate the racing as was done over the years in LB.
And BTW, wasn't there a big wreck at TO within the first few corners this year?
Make the journey to SJ next year and see for yourself.
The ticket prices are among the lowest on the circuit ($103.25 for 3 day Gold GS including paddock) for the temporary venues, and lodgings are fairly reasonable if you don't care about staying a mile away (staying at one of the hotels inside the circuit or across the street can get pricey).
Many good places are right on the bus line that runs to the hairpin and can be had for ~$100 a night or less (vs $200+ for an on-circuit room). I spent $79 a night for a room 1/2 mile away (over by HP Pavillion) this year and I could hear the Atlantics out for warmup in the morning when I stepped outside to have a smoke.
The airport is about 3 miles away and a cab ride to/from Downtown runs about $10. Airport shuttles can cost even less.
Judge for yourself...The atmosphere is killer and the value is there.
If you are gonna throw stones, best not stand in a glass house...
manic
Good post - were you staying at the Arena Hotel perchance?
That place is ghetto money - cheap and a relatively quick walk to the track. :cool:
Not sure about the LB pre race buzz over SJ - and don't know why it matters b/c the race weekend is what's what. One sure fire way IMO to compare the two is to look at the establishments at the track - there are 10 bars / hotels in LB that outdraw SJ's best without even an eye blink. Way more people in LB.
That said, SJ is already the mini-OC IMO, and they are on their way to being the mini LBGP - and that's not a slight. :beer:
Dr. Corkski
07-31-07, 01:26 AM
Not sure about the LB pre race buzz over SJ - and don't know why it matters b/c the race weekend is what's what. One sure fire way IMO to compare the two is to look at the establishments at the track - there are 10 bars / hotels in LB that outdraw SJ's best without even an eye blink. Way more people in LB.
That said, SJ is already the mini-OC IMO, and they are on their way to being the mini LBGP - and that's not a slight. :beer:The difference is that Long Beach will always have other things in nearby Los Angeles competing against its market. San Jose will always get the majority of the buzz in the area since the nearest competing market is an hour away in San Francisco, and SVSE has the monopoly and money to market it. The nearby business owners love it simply because most ghost towns have more excitement than San Jose during non work hours when the Sharks aren't playing.
You are also correct about the similarities between Silicon Valley and Orange County, but that is most definitely not a good thing.
jonovision_man
07-31-07, 06:32 AM
Ya know jono, you will continue to think that way UNTIL you actually attend that race.
San Jose is about much more than the track. I will admit that it's small and it would be nice to see at least one more passing area, but having been there all 3 years of the event I will tell you one thing: THE BUZZ around town in the weeks/days leading up to the race is phenomenal! :thumbup:
I don't deny any of that.
I'm not down on the event, I'm down on the track. It's the worst on the calendar. The event may have many redeeming qualities, never been there.
I'm getting Vancouver flashbacks... :eek: Seriously, these are the same arguments. A horribly bad track, but a generally successful event.
I have attended Long Beach for 14+ years and there is no comparison... The San Jose area gets behind this event to the point that it makes Long Beach look like it's put on by amateurs.
Also, you should factor in that there isn't room for the city to change the streets to better accomodate the racing as was done over the years in LB.
Seriously, though, compare this track - just the track - to the rest of the ChampCar calendar, and tell me which others it's better than.
And BTW, wasn't there a big wreck at TO within the first few corners this year?
Big wrecks happen, it's not big wrecks I have a problem with. That happens at Cleveland too.
It's the low speed putt-putt-putt bump that Doornbos was involved in... it was hilarious.
jono
Ya know Jono, every track has something that sucks about it...BUT, if there's good racing on it who cares? Compared to the first San Jose races this one rocked (and the other one memorable for PT kicking the s*** out of Tagliani). Cotman painting the no pass line and the removal of the chicane before T1 made T1 exciting (even if it is the crappiest track on the schedule). I'll take racing excitement on a POS track just as nicely as racing excitement on a non-POS track. I turned Edmonton off with about 1 hour to go...it looked slow and boring, and it's very rare for me to stop watching a race.
I'll add one additional thing...tracks don't drive the cars, drivers do. Doornbos was so focused on getting to the front the slight jam up allowed him to plow into the car in front of him. Almost exactly like Kanose plowing into Patrick and flipping Andretti on a suposed non-POS track in a POS copycat series last week at a former CART venue.
opinionated ow
07-31-07, 11:21 AM
This is the youtube footage put together by Albert Kallal that was posted on another forum. Its worth a look see. Hey Jono/Opinionated OW enjoy. I know I did. :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl5C-4_PYBc
even in edited highlights it still sucked. ugly cars, crap track, street racing, spec series "racing." oh so true to the roots of American openwheel racing.:flame:
Insomniac
07-31-07, 11:51 AM
even in edited highlights it still sucked. ugly cars, crap track, street racing, spec series "racing." oh so true to the roots of American openwheel racing.:flame:
It is what it is. Fans and history don't dictate what CC is like right now. Economics/Owners do. Fans have to either live with it or give up on it. No sense in getting yourself all worked up, just quit watching if you hate everything about CC (not sure what's left when you say the cars are ugly and refer to it as "racing").
even in edited highlights it still sucked. ugly cars, crap track, street racing, spec series "racing." oh so true to the roots of American openwheel racing.:flame:
Dude, CART/Champcar has been street racing for over 25 years....have you always had this hostility toward the series? You do realize there have been times the series had "spec" characteristics previously? Sounds like you didn't get your MAYPO this week...:cry:
What agony you street haters must have endured.....
http://www.speedtv.com/_assets/library/img/large/167012_lat2007073028969_pv.jpg
Chief wrote
What agony you street haters must have endured.....
I finally got to watch tape of the race and actually liked it -- who would have thought that Yani and Doorknob [ :D ] could put on such a good show on a track that appears only just large enough for some sort of SJGP "running of the bulls."
jonovision_man
07-31-07, 05:25 PM
Ya know Jono, every track has something that sucks about it...BUT, if there's good racing on it who cares? Compared to the first San Jose races this one rocked (and the other one memorable for PT kicking the s*** out of Tagliani). Cotman painting the no pass line and the removal of the chicane before T1 made T1 exciting (even if it is the crappiest track on the schedule). I'll take racing excitement on a POS track just as nicely as racing excitement on a non-POS track. I turned Edmonton off with about 1 hour to go...it looked slow and boring, and it's very rare for me to stop watching a race.
Edmonton suffered from what F1 suffers from at times... qualifying did too good of a job putting the fastest at the front and the slowest at the back. Nobody to pass.
I'm not going to write it off on one bad race, just like I won't change my opinion of San Jose on one race.
And I'm not a hater of street races in general, I like them a lot in fact. Long Beach and Toronto are great street races, fantastic. If you want to include airports, Cleveland and Edmonton are typically awesome tracks.
If you think about it, that's how road racing started, it was taking public roads and making race tracks out of them. Spa was public highways, the bus stop was literally a bus stop. :) Purpose-built tracks are fine, but there's something very natural about building the road for function (transportation) then racing it.
I just don't like this one. :) And especially that corner.
I'll add one additional thing...tracks don't drive the cars, drivers do. Doornbos was so focused on getting to the front the slight jam up allowed him to plow into the car in front of him. Almost exactly like Kanose plowing into Patrick and flipping Andretti on a suposed non-POS track in a POS copycat series last week at a former CART venue.
Doornbos was almost at a dead stop... the car lurched on him because it wanted to GOOOOO. :D
jono
opinionated ow
07-31-07, 08:02 PM
Dude, CART/Champcar has been street racing for over 25 years....have you always had this hostility toward the series? You do realize there have been times the series had "spec" characteristics previously? Sounds like you didn't get your MAYPO this week...:cry:
not once (until this year) has there been spec racing. the chassis might have been the same brand, but no two of the teams had identical cars. this isn't the same series i fell in love with. that had good racing on good street circuits. (vancouver mark 1, old long beach, toronto comes to mind). they didn't have stupid tracks like san jose or denver.
"World Series by Renault Street Series"
It's not going to be the series it once was....I know it's a bitter pill to swallow, I had to swallow it too. BUT, as much as I want TONY GEORGE eliminated and the past 12 years erased, well, that just is not going to happen.
Some of you never met Railbird, but I did. And I walked away with my tail between my legs after he set me straight and I never forgot it. If you're a true racefan you'll appreciate what San Jose was last Sunday, split politics be damned. With the instability of AOW sometimes you got to say "screw it", sit back with a beer and enjoy the racing while it lasts. At the rate it's going that may not be for long.....
jonovision_man
07-31-07, 08:53 PM
Let's not throw around the "true race fan" stuff. We're all fans of the sport or we wouldn't be here. A NASCAR fan might tell you that if you enjoy right turns you're not a "true race fan", sportscar purists might tell you street racing is not for "true race fans", etc. There's nothing about disliking San Jose that would disqualify a person as a "true race fan". :p
I did enjoy the race, with a beer, watched it flag to flag. And I don't like the track. That's OK. You're being a bit dramatic about all of this... surely you can see how it's in the realm of possibility that someone wouldn't like this circuit??
jono
It's not drama, I was sharing an experience where I learned something. Perhaps someday you'll be as lucky.
Ed_Severson
07-31-07, 09:48 PM
Let's not throw around the "true race fan" stuff.
Naw, we wouldn't want anybody to do that (http://offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=201505&postcount=13), would we? :tony:
jonovision_man
07-31-07, 10:15 PM
Naw, we wouldn't want anybody to do that (http://offcamber.net/forums/showpost.php?p=201505&postcount=13), would we? :tony:
LOL. :) Got me. :D
But that was a good track. ;)
jono
Racing Truth
08-01-07, 01:24 PM
Uhh, all banter aside, here's my view: first 40+ mins were boring and, at times, amateurish. The rest, aka most of the race, was compelling and entertaining. Turn one made for great overtaking opportunities and Doornbos and Jani were fun to watch up front.:thumbup:
FWIW: While greatly improved over '05 (no one can deny this), outside of T1, San Jose is a boring track, IMHO.
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