Fall is in the Air!! - Football [Archive] - Page 12

Andrew Longman

01-09-08, 12:09 PM

There has never been a 9th ranked team w/ non-specious a title claim.

So?

An awful lot of #1 and #2 teams lost to lowly ranked teams this year and other years during the season.

In the division 1AA II and III playoffs, I haven't looked it up, but I'm pretty sure some lowly seeded team have won and/or challenged for the championship. Northern Michigan was 0-10 in 74 before going 9-1 in 75 and getting into and winning the playoffs. How high could they have been seeded?

In the NFL, which only has 32 teams, not 119, how many low seeded wild card teams have gone to and/or won the Super Bowl?

Ankf00

01-09-08, 12:24 PM

that's great and all, but D1A isn't the NFL.

There is no whining of "we're the hottest team in the country." Take care of business when it matters instead of whining after losing by 3 TDs to the division champ and 6-6 divisional bottom feeder.

There is no 9 seed w/ a legit title claim, if they want to be included they should win their games.

Andrew Longman

01-09-08, 12:29 PM

In my system it is even cleaner. You want to get in, win your conference. It is much cleaner and it is much clearer "when winning matters most".

dando

01-09-08, 12:46 PM

In my system it is even cleaner. You want to get in, win your conference. It is much cleaner and it is much clearer "when winning matters most".

Except for the other 5 @ large teams, which is where all of the pissing and moaning would come from. I still think 16 is too many teams...unless somehow you weave the conference championships into the mix. That would add another three teams (ACC, SEC, Big Twinkie) into the mix, and if you could get the Big 10, Pac 10 and Big lEast to have a championship, that would cover all 16. And as a byproduct, force ND into an alliance with a conference. :) This would start in the first week of December and end the first week of January, if not New Year's Day. Nah, makes too much sense.
:irked:

-Kevin

dando

01-09-08, 12:48 PM

that's great and all, but D1A isn't the NFL.

And lower seeded teams haven't won the March Madness, or became Cinderella darlings in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 or Final Four *George Mason, Gonzo, etc.)? It can happen in foosball, too, yo. Think Boise over Okie. I know you can. :)

-Kevin

Ankf00

01-09-08, 12:53 PM

And lower seeded teams haven't won the March Madness, or became Cinderella darlings in the Sweet 16 or Elite 8 or Final Four *George Mason, Gonzo, etc.)? It can happen in foosball, too, yo. Think Boise over Okie. I know you can. :)

-Kevin

Boise earned it w/ an undefeated season, they weren't some 2 loss MWC or 3 loss BCS team

nrc

01-09-08, 12:56 PM

Insomniac

01-09-08, 01:00 PM

Its gotta be 16 teams. There are 11 conferences plus a handful of indepentents. If your conference in worthy of being 1A then winning your conference should mean you are worthy of competing in the playoffs. Eight is not enough. Someone will always have a legit case to complain they were locked out.

Granted there would be too few teams for the existing bowls if you took 16 for the playoffs, but that shouldn't be the reason to not have a playoff. Just get rid of some of the bowls

Limiting it to conference champs, eight is fair.

WAC -> Hawaii (12-0)
Big Ten -> Ohio State (11-1)
Big 12 -> Oklahoma (11-2)
SEC -> LSU (11-2)
Big East -> West Virginia (10-2)
Mountain West -> Brigham Young (10-2)
Pac 10 -> USC (10-2)
ACC -> Virgina Tech (10-3)
Conference USA -> UCF (10-3)
MAC -> Central Michigan (8-5)
Sun Belt -> Florida Atlantic (7-5)

4 Independent schools, go find a conference if you want to win a National Title.

I don't like the idea of a team that can't even win its conference then gets to play for a national championship. Not to mention, 4 more games to be champ?

You could do it objectively, like record and strength of schedule (I can't find SOS for before the bowl games, so I had to use final SOS).

So the seeding (laughable now) would be:

1. Hawaii (12-0, 110)
2. Ohio State (11-1, 34)
3. LSU (11-2, 11)
4. Oklahoma (11-2, 24)
5. West Virginia (10-2, 29)
6. Brigham Young (10-2, 61)
7. USC (10-2, 64)
8. Virgina Tech (10-3, 5)

UCF (10-3, 75) is left out. They're the only one with a gripe, but it was done objectively.

1. Hawaii
8. Virgina Tech

4. Oklahoma
5. West Virginia

3. LSU
6. Brigham Young

2. Ohio State
7. USC

nrc

01-09-08, 01:02 PM

This would start in the first week of December and end the first week of January, if not New Year's Day. Nah, makes too much sense.
:irked:

-Kevin

Actually it doesn't. Four more games on a college team? That's not a national championship that's a last man standing competition.

Ankf00

01-09-08, 01:30 PM

LSU falls in the first round in a 4 round playoff. They were a walking MASH unit second half of the season and it showed every week.

dando

01-09-08, 01:31 PM

Actually it doesn't. Four more games on a college team? That's not a national championship that's a last man standing competition.

I'm on record for an 8-game playoff, incorporating the existing NYD bowls. I was just suggesting how a 16-game playoff would work. OSU did 14-0 in '02, so 15 is prolly the max for any college teams to play.

-Kevin

Ankf00

01-09-08, 02:13 PM

Relatives of coach Rich Rodriguez face harassment, threats, his mother says

January 8, 2008

GRANT TOWN, W.Va. (AP) -- Relatives of Rich Rodriguez have been harassed and threatened in the three weeks since his resignation as West Virginia football coach.

His mother, Arleen Rodriguez, told the Charleston Daily Mail her teenage grandson received a death threat and found other harassing notes taped to his locker at East Fairmont High School. Arleen said her 12-year-old granddaughter had to be escorted to classes.

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AgS4bzD_LeCnjmZIXuO0Dqw5nYcB?slug=ap-rodriguezbacklash&prov=ap&type=lgns

Morgantown's hard core, bitches.

dando

01-09-08, 02:25 PM

The local TV critic slams the Fox broadcast. TFF!

http://blog.dispatch.com/blog-32/2008/01/insult_to_injury_the_bcs_on_fo.shtml

The direction didn't help, either. Raise your hand if you care about the DLP camera, or needed to see it at least three times in the contest. (Ok, so the picture is sweet, but do we need a close-up on the actual apparatus? To paraphrase Tommy Boy, I like a T-bone steak but I don't need to see the cow it came from.)

:laugh: :thumbup:

-Kevin

Andrew Longman

01-09-08, 02:57 PM

I'm on record for an 8-game playoff, incorporating the existing NYD bowls. I was just suggesting how a 16-game playoff would work. OSU did 14-0 in '02, so 15 is prolly the max for any college teams to play.

-Kevin

Well, if the argument against 16 teams is that it make the season too long, my response is they play too many games as it is.

The regular season got so long for three reasons:

1) In order to get TV contracts schools consolidated into big conferences with bigger conference schedules
2) If you play a championship game (which adds a game and revenue) you can add another game
3) The desire to add BS games (esp DIAA schools) to the schedule to pad the record and help with rankings

What people need to buy into is if they went to a 4 round playoff it would be huge. It would dwarf March Madness and rival the NFL. And it would make a lot of money.

A lot. A whole lot.

If school presidents would buy into the notion that the TV and other money that comes from that will be split equally among all school (with perhaps a bit more for the playoff teams) everyone would have far more money than they get now and they would get it with relative certainty every year.

Also, it could make every game even more important. By making winning the conference a requirement to making the playoffs, every conference game become life or death. You can't rely on the silliness of the polls to help you out if you get a loss or two.

But turn it around, if all you have to do to get in the playoffs and have shot at the national championship is win to the conference, then schools such as Northwestern, Vanderbuilt, SMU, etc. would have a greater incentive to put in the extra effort/investment to win their conference.

Insomniac

01-09-08, 03:03 PM

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news;_ylt=AgS4bzD_LeCnjmZIXuO0Dqw5nYcB?slug=ap-rodriguezbacklash&prov=ap&type=lgns

Morgantown's hard core, bitches.

Technically, that's Fairmont, about 25 miles south of Morgantown. ;) But his house is in Morgantown. (I knew the previous owners who left amid their own controversy.)

But seriously, 12 year olds harassing other 12 year olds, you just need to give others an excuse to get picked on. The vandalism on the other hand, people should be more respectful and know better.

Insomniac

01-09-08, 03:08 PM

Well, if the argument against 16 teams is that it make the season too long, my response is they play too many games as it is.

The regular season got so long for three reasons:

1) In order to get TV contracts schools consolidated into big conferences with bigger conference schedules
2) If you play a championship game (which adds a game and revenue) you can add another game
3) The desire to add BS games (esp DIAA schools) to the schedule to pad the record and help with rankings

What people need to buy into is if they went to a 4 round playoff it would be huge. It would dwarf March Madness and rival the NFL. And it would make a lot of money.

A lot. A whole lot.

If school presidents would buy into the notion that the TV and other money that comes from that will be split equally among all school (with perhaps a bit more for the playoff teams) everyone would have far more money than they get now and they would get it with relative certainty every year.

Also, it could make every game even more important. By making winning the conference a requirement to making the playoffs, every conference game become life or death. You can't rely on the silliness of the polls to help you out if you get a loss or two.

But turn it around, if all you have to do to get in the playoffs and have shot at the national championship is win to the conference, then schools such as Northwestern, Vanderbuilt, SMU, etc. would have a greater incentive to put in the extra effort/investment to win their conference.

I'm confused by this whole thing.

First, you think the season is long enough, so you want to make it even longer?

Second, there are only 11 conferences in the FBS. 5 other teams have to come from somewhere.

Andrew Longman

01-09-08, 03:27 PM

I'm confused by this whole thing.

My bad.

The thing is if you are going to have more than 8 then you have to go to 16, unless you give first round byes, which is just asking for more problems.

So if you are going to make being in a DI conference meaningful, then you have to award the champion with a berth.

If that makes the season too long, then shorten the season

If that is too hard because the conferences are so big, then go back to more and smaller conferences. There is room in the scheme for 5 additional conferences, though I don't think it needs to come to that. So out of the 5 there would be room a few "wild cards" for accomodate a few very near also rans.

My larger point is the system is badly corrupted by misplaced interests and motivations. The polls and bowls have far too much control and influence over the sport and the play on the field far too little. Blow it up and fix it right. The existing pieces, except the hard work and dedication of the players, are all broken.

But fixing Open Wheel Racing would be easier

dando

01-09-08, 03:33 PM

Well, if the argument against 16 teams is that it make the season too long, my response is they play too many games as it is.

The regular season got so long for three reasons:

1) In order to get TV contracts schools consolidated into big conferences with bigger conference schedules
2) If you play a championship game (which adds a game and revenue) you can add another game
3) The desire to add BS games (esp DIAA schools) to the schedule to pad the record and help with rankings

What people need to buy into is if they went to a 4 round playoff it would be huge. It would dwarf March Madness and rival the NFL. And it would make a lot of money.

A lot. A whole lot.

If school presidents would buy into the notion that the TV and other money that comes from that will be split equally among all school (with perhaps a bit more for the playoff teams) everyone would have far more money than they get now and they would get it with relative certainty every year.

Also, it could make every game even more important. By making winning the conference a requirement to making the playoffs, every conference game become life or death. You can't rely on the silliness of the polls to help you out if you get a loss or two.

But turn it around, if all you have to do to get in the playoffs and have shot at the national championship is win to the conference, then schools such as Northwestern, Vanderbuilt, SMU, etc. would have a greater incentive to put in the extra effort/investment to win their conference.

I think the only way you could justify an 8-game playoff would be to remove the 12th game and use the conference championships as the first round. That would mean 15 games max. The 12th game was added for everyone due to games like the Kickoff and Pigskin Classic, which offered some teams a 12th game, but the majority of teams were left out. To avoid the inequity, the 2A allowed all teams to play a 12th game. And of course, make more $$$ in the process. :\

-Kevin

Insomniac

01-09-08, 04:11 PM

My bad.

The thing is if you are going to have more than 8 then you have to go to 16, unless you give first round byes, which is just asking for more problems.

So if you are going to make being in a DI conference meaningful, then you have to award the champion with a berth.

If that makes the season too long, then shorten the season

If that is too hard because the conferences are so big, then go back to more and smaller conferences. There is room in the scheme for 5 additional conferences, though I don't think it needs to come to that. So out of the 5 there would be room a few "wild cards" for accomodate a few very near also rans.

My larger point is the system is badly corrupted by misplaced interests and motivations. The polls and bowls have far too much control and influence over the sport and the play on the field far too little. Blow it up and fix it right. The existing pieces, except the hard work and dedication of the players, are all broken.

But fixing Open Wheel Racing would be easier

But you talked about incentive to win the conference. If there are 5 spots that go to non-conference champs, then you could have a team like Georgia who didn't win their division getting to play. So the team that did win the division (Tennessee) loses in the Championship, but Georgia gets to play for a National Title? I think exclude 3 is much better than add 5.

dando

01-09-08, 04:23 PM

Mallett leaves UM, may be seen in Dayglo Orange next:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3188170

And as predicted, both Arrington and Manningham are leaving early to underachieve in the pros as well. :gomer:

Better git recruitin', Rich Rich.

-Kevin

Andrew Longman

01-09-08, 04:48 PM

But you talked about incentive to win the conference. If there are 5 spots that go to non-conference champs, then you could have a team like Georgia who didn't win their division getting to play. So the team that did win the division (Tennessee) loses in the Championship, but Georgia gets to play for a National Title? I think exclude 3 is much better than add 5.

I believe giving too few teams a chance to win the championship is inherently more unfair than letting too many. Especially when there are ridiculous and artificial reason to limit berths.

For two reasons I also have less of a problem if in your scenario Georgia beats Tennessee in the final while not beating them for the conference championship. First, just to get to the playoffs they need to be judged one of the five best non-conference winner and independent teams. That will be a high burden. Second, to play them again in the finals they would have to get through the playoff rounds, earning the right to play them again directly on the field, not through some beauty contest. I could add to that, that TN too would have to earn the right to play in the final.

BTW if it is not clear I would bannish conference championship games.

Insomniac

01-09-08, 05:00 PM

I believe giving too few teams a chance to win the championship is inherently more unfair than letting too many. Especially when there are ridiculous and artificial reason to limit berths.

For two reasons I also have less of a problem if in your scenario Georgia beats Tennessee in the final while not beating them for the conference championship. First, just to get to the playoffs they need to be judged one of the five best non-conference winner and independent teams. That will be a high burden. Second, to play them again in the finals they would have to get through the playoff rounds, earning the right to play them again directly on the field, not through some beauty contest. I could add to that, that TN too would have to earn the right to play in the final.

BTW if it is not clear I would bannish conference championship games.

Sorry, perhaps I should be more clear about Georgia. They finished 2nd in the SEC East. Tennessee finished 1st in the SEC East and played and lost to LSU in the SEC Championship. Now Georgia finished ranked 2/3 in the polls, and was in the BCS. Presumably they make it to the 16-team tournament too, but they were the 3rd best team in the SEC (at best).

Also, you would seed it to avoid conference teams from playing until the Championship? That seems pretty unfair.

If you eliminated conference champions, do division winners get in then? (That would be 16 teams total)

Andrew Longman

01-09-08, 06:07 PM

Sorry, perhaps I should be more clear about Georgia. They finished 2nd in the SEC East. Tennessee finished 1st in the SEC East and played and lost to LSU in the SEC Championship. Now Georgia finished ranked 2/3 in the polls, and was in the BCS. Presumably they make it to the 16-team tournament too, but they were the 3rd best team in the SEC (at best).

Also, you would seed it to avoid conference teams from playing until the Championship? That seems pretty unfair.

If you eliminated conference champions, do division winners get in then? (That would be 16 teams total)

Well, two teams from one conference making the "Wild Five" would be pretty unlikely, but possible.

I would do would do away with the conference "divisions" and hence the need for championship games. If there are too many teams to play in a 10-11 game season, then rotate play season to season or downsize. Or split into two separate conferences. The SEC only got so big because they took on AK and SC.

Of course what I'm proposing is lunacy, but it would correct the lunacy unique in sport that is college DI football.

(Yes I would seed teams so they won't play others in their conference. You had your chance to beat them. Earn it back)

ferrarigod

01-09-08, 07:08 PM

There is no 9 seed w/ a legit title claim, if they want to be included they should win their games.

same could be said of the current system. if georgia wanted to assure themselves of a slot, perhaps they shouldn't have lost as many as they did.

i'm not pro a playoff system. i say we revert back to the good ole days.

Andrew Longman

01-09-08, 07:13 PM

i'm not pro a playoff system. i say we revert back to the good ole days.

I'm OK with that too.

In the old days, the national championship meant little. What mattered was Princeton beating Harvard for the Ivy championship. Or Michigan beating Ohio St for the Big 10. Or UCLA beating USC for the Pac 8.

Every conference thought they were better than others anyway, or if they were not they were academically better or at least the coeds were prettier.

If you got to spend New Years in a warm place and party for a few days, all the better.

coolhand

01-13-08, 02:43 AM

Go back to the old system and add a plus one game.

2003 LSU plays USC
2004 USC plays Auburn
2005 ?
2006 LSU-USC

odd pattern

or even go to the pre-BCS system and add a plus 1 game.

Ankf00

01-13-08, 01:44 PM

a post bowl +1 is bs. this year tOSU would play USC in the Rose, and Hawaii would play LSU in the Sugar, how is that fair?

ferrarigod

01-13-08, 02:05 PM

a post bowl +1 is bs. this year tOSU would play USC in the Rose, and Hawaii would play LSU in the Sugar, how is that fair?

using a +1 post bowl would not have allowed Hawaii to play LSU. the ncaa and everyone wouldn't have accepted that at all. it would have been OU/LSU in the Sugar, OSU/USC and then a +1 in N'orleans with the winners. I would be happy with that. Keep in the old Pac/Big Rose Game and allowed OU and LSU to fight it out like USC/OSU. That seems far, let UGA play Hawaii somewhere else.

screw hawaii.

Ankf00

01-13-08, 02:19 PM

if in '03 LSU plays in the sugar and wins, OU plays in the Fiesta and wins, USC plays in the Rose then wins.

you still have 3 1-losses

dando

01-13-08, 02:19 PM

a post bowl +1 is bs. this year tOSU would play USC in the Rose, and Hawaii would play LSU in the Sugar, how is that fair?

Huh? Step away from the crack, yo. :saywhat: The BC$ top 4 pre-bowls was OSU, LSU, Va Tech and Okie. A +1 game would have pitted 2 of those 4 teams. USC and Hawaii were much further down in the top ten. A 4-game playoff would have likely matched OSU/USC, LSU/Hawaii, etc. Of course that all depends on how you treat teams like Georgia and Mizzou, who did not win their division or conference:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings

I'd almost prefer going back to the old days and have them all play on NYD. :irked:

-Kevin

Ankf00

01-13-08, 02:22 PM

Huh? Step away from the crack, yo. :saywhat: The BC$ top 4 pre-bowls was OSU, LSU, Va Tech and Okie. a +1 is not a seeded playoff involving the top 4 BCS teams, what you cited is a seeded playoff and inaccurately referred to as a +1. it is an extra game pairing 2 of the 8 BCS teams after the BCS bowls play themselves out w/ traditional tie-ins

dando

01-13-08, 03:09 PM

a +1 is not a seeded playoff involving the top 4 BCS teams, what you cited is a seeded playoff and inaccurately referred to as a +1. it is an extra game pairing 2 of the 8 BCS teams after the BCS bowls play themselves out w/ traditional tie-ins

Do the math. That's a +2 unless you're including the existing BC$ championship game. Or an unseeded 8-team playoff. 8 => 4 => 2

-Kevin

Ankf00

01-13-08, 03:30 PM

a seeded 4 team playoff is not a +1

a +1 is an extra game after the 4 BCS bowls play out as they normally would, big 10 & pac 10 in the rose, big 12 + at large in the fiesta, SEC in sugar, ACC in Orange.

then whomever is #1 and #2 after those bowls are played would play in the title game of a +1 system. not +2, it's 1 game so it's a +1, it's not an 8 team playoff w/ the 4 BCS bowls. a +1 is the same 5 game BCS structure we have now, but w/ the traditional 8 teams that would play in the traditional 4 bowls, only 2 of those 8 teams would get to play in the ensuing title game. that is a +1

Sean O'Gorman

01-13-08, 03:46 PM

if in '03 LSU plays in the sugar and wins, OU plays in the Fiesta and wins, USC plays in the Rose then wins.

you still have 3 1-losses

Which is the perfect solution, because it brings more clarity to who is #1 and #2, and the #3 and #4 teams can still bitch about it.

Andrew Longman

01-13-08, 11:34 PM

Which is the perfect solution, because it brings more clarity to who is #1 and #2, and the #3 and #4 teams can still bitch about it.

Bull. It's still a f'd up.

Listen to all you folks contortions.

Playoffs!!! 16 Teams. Do it. Anything else is doomed as FUBAR

ferrarigod

01-14-08, 08:05 PM

Bull. It's still a f'd up.

Listen to all you folks contortions.

Playoffs!!! 16 Teams. Do it. Anything else is doomed as FUBAR

playoffs is fubar. i don't go to the UF/FSU game or OSU/UM game cause I want to watch backups and b.s. like that cause the teams are already in the playoff. If I wanted to do that, I'd watch the NFL. Which I don't.

Ankf00

01-14-08, 10:03 PM

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=162&f=2010&no=5#s=162&f=2010&t=1287783

A&M = Democratic People's Republic of Korea ??

Andrew Longman

01-15-08, 12:50 AM

playoffs is fubar. i don't go to the UF/FSU game or OSU/UM game cause I want to watch backups and b.s. like that cause the teams are already in the playoff. If I wanted to do that, I'd watch the NFL. Which I don't.

Can't speak for UF/FSU but tOSU/UofM, under my plan would be more huger. In many years, the loser would not make the playoffs because they would not have won the conference and would not be deemed good enough to get a precious at large bid.

Sean O'Gorman

01-15-08, 10:09 AM

So what happens if both teams come in to the last week knowing they are in the playoffs? The fans get to see both teams mail it in, but its ok, since they'll both be playing in the postseason, but not likely against each other? Weak.

ferrarigod

01-15-08, 01:12 PM

Can't speak for UF/FSU but tOSU/UofM, under my plan would be more huger. In many years, the loser would not make the playoffs because they would not have won the conference and would not be deemed good enough to get a precious at large bid.

ummm, i disagree. lets say that OSU can't be in the playoff, and UM already has the Big Ten outright(it is not written in stone that OSU/UM must win the Big Televen each year) or whatever, then UM doesn't play any starters and OSU plays everyone in an effort to win to save face.

UF/FSU is non-conference last game during Thanksgiving, so assuming that, then both or either don't care to have a chance at a win b/c they would have to worry about their conference later. neither would care about the game. Rendering such traditional match ups worthless. Same with ND/USC or any non-conference makeup. Since the schedules until 2012 are already being signed, it would be kind of hard to cut any games that would be rendered useless by a playoff system.

Playoffs will ruin many rivalries, for sure out of conference ones. You also can't have a playoff with the SEC having and championship and the Pac/Big not. It isn't even or fair for either side depending on how you look at it.

Also, don't forget to force Notre Dame and all the Indie's into a conference. Good luck tearing the Domers away from that NBC contract and 100% they keep from their bowls.

true playoff system = worst idea ever. all it would spurn is more evenness among teams, different (read: boring) distribution of talent and half assed play at the end of the year. there should be no resting of players during any games if you hope to win a title at any level.

no thanks.

Andrew Longman

01-15-08, 05:04 PM

ummm, i disagree. .

OK missed your point and I see it now.

However, in practice there is evidence that that your fears are unfounded.

Lehigh/Lafayette is the oldest rivalry in football. Both are eligable to IAA playoffs and especially of late Lehigh is usually in or competing for the playoffs. Believe me, both teams compete fiercely their yearend matchup.

In NJ there is a long history of Thanksgiving Day HS rivalry games. These games fall between the first and second round of the state playoffs. The oldest in the nation is Phillipsburg/Easton. All are bigger than homecoming because so many former students are actually back from college. All are slugfests regardless of the possibility of hurting their chances in the remaining playoff games.

Regardless, I would trade a few bad games at the of the season for fewer stupid bowl games and a faux championship game. Gladly

Ankf00

01-15-08, 05:14 PM

Dallas fans: we're still the better team, NYG just got lucky on one day, refs, mistakes, whatever, NYG not the better team and will be proved next week

^^^ this is the whining that's going on right now. that's exactly why march madness style playoffs won't solve a damn thing.

D1-A is about the whole season, Lehigh/Lafayette is as relevent as Junior High football to this discussion. Top D1-A programs have 90-100K in the stands, not 2K. HS football in the south is bigger than DII or DIII ball.

ferrarigod

01-15-08, 05:15 PM

OK missed your point and I see it now.

However, in practice there is evidence that that your fears are unfounded.

Lehigh/Lafayette is the oldest rivalry in football. Both are eligable to IAA playoffs and especially of late Lehigh is usually in or competing for the playoffs. Believe me, both teams compete fiercely their yearend matchup.

In NJ there is a long history of Thanksgiving Day HS rivalry games. These games fall between the first and second round of the state playoffs. The oldest in the nation is Phillipsburg/Easton. All are bigger than homecoming because so many former students are actually back from college. All are slugfests regardless of the possibility of hurting their chances in the remaining playoff games.

Regardless, I would trade a few bad games at the of the season for fewer stupid bowl games and a faux championship game. Gladly

it might not be at the end of the season, if all you have to do is win your conference, what is the incentive for UM/ND or USC/ND towards the beginning/middle of the season? Why not just play all conference games then?

College football would not be the same, and just because your Red Knights and the UGA President are jumping on the "we have near zero success but with a playoff we'll prove we're the best" bandwagon doesn't make it a good idea.

i say we go back to the pre-BCS, and maybe add a +1. A floating agenda would be best, but $$$$$ would not allow that. For instance some years a 4 team playoff, some no playoff, some years +1, some years 8 teams. But it won't happen, and I don't believe a playoff will either, not unless ABC/Mickey Mouse can wrestle the bowls back and give tons of money for any type of playoff in 2012 or whenever Fox's coverage ends.

UGA, USC and OU thinking they are gods gift to football does not mean we must change the system. it means they shouldn't have lost to a divisional UT, South Carolina, Stanford, Oregon, Colorado and Texas Tech.

Win your games and you have nothing to bitch about.

Insomniac

01-15-08, 10:29 PM

Dallas fans: we're still the better team, NYG just got lucky on one day, refs, mistakes, whatever, NYG not the better team and will be proved next week

^^^ this is the whining that's going on right now. that's exactly why march madness style playoffs won't solve a damn thing.

As you say, that's just whining. The score is the deciding factor. They won, it's simple. It solves the subjectiveness of rankings and decides it on the field. People will always whine, but there's a lot less legitimacy to it.

Insomniac

01-15-08, 10:35 PM

it might not be at the end of the season, if all you have to do is win your conference, what is the incentive for UM/ND or USC/ND towards the beginning/middle of the season? Why not just play all conference games then?

College football would not be the same, and just because your Red Knights and the UGA President are jumping on the "we have near zero success but with a playoff we'll prove we're the best" bandwagon doesn't make it a good idea.

i say we go back to the pre-BCS, and maybe add a +1. A floating agenda would be best, but $$$$$ would not allow that. For instance some years a 4 team playoff, some no playoff, some years +1, some years 8 teams. But it won't happen, and I don't believe a playoff will either, not unless ABC/Mickey Mouse can wrestle the bowls back and give tons of money for any type of playoff in 2012 or whenever Fox's coverage ends.

UGA, USC and OU thinking they are gods gift to football does not mean we must change the system. it means they shouldn't have lost to a divisional UT, South Carolina, Stanford, Oregon, Colorado and Texas Tech.

Win your games and you have nothing to bitch about.

Would the schools actually do that? Would their fans even accept it knowing the reason? I mean, if you've played a team 50+ times, would you stop playing them to rest up? These schools don't even rest when they're killing the other team. I think with 3 weeks off (8 team playoff), they wouldn't be coasting. Seems like there's a lot more pride in football than the NFL IMO.

Ankf00

01-16-08, 02:19 AM

These schools don't even rest when they're killing the other team. Maybe WVU doesn't, but any coach not named Carroll, Spurrier, or Leach brings in the all-scrub team if up by 4-5 TDs in the 2nd half.

VY only played past the 1st series of the 2nd half in 2 games in the '05 season, Ohio State and USC.

Ankf00

01-16-08, 02:21 AM

As you say, that's just whining. The score is the deciding factor. which is why USC, OU, and UGa weren't in the BCS title game.

Insomniac

01-16-08, 10:19 AM

Maybe WVU doesn't, but any coach not named Carroll, Spurrier, or Leach brings in the all-scrub team if up by 4-5 TDs in the 2nd half.

VY only played past the 1st series of the 2nd half in 2 games in the '05 season, Ohio State and USC.

4-5 TDs, that's a lot to wait to bring in the back-ups. WVU waits until about then, and generally the gap still grows. Maybe you're right, it just seemed to me that resting guys isn;t at the top of their lists.

Insomniac

01-16-08, 10:27 AM

which is why USC, OU, and UGa weren't in the BCS title game.

The score isn't the deciding factor in that. The rankings were, which are subjective. What about all the other conference champs with 2 or less losses?

Hawaii (12-0)
Oklahoma (11-2)
West Virginia (10-2)
Brigham Young (10-2)
USC (10-2)

People who did the rankings decided they weren't good enough based on their own factors. If the powers that be want to leave it the way it is, so be it. But we don't know who the best team at the end of the year is based on voters telling us who is #1 and #2 playing each other.

Ankf00

01-16-08, 12:26 PM

Insomniac

01-16-08, 02:06 PM

tOSU == 1 loss
LSU == 2 loss, but both in triple OT
BYU+HI == chumps w/ no opponent of significance on their schedules.

the rest == 2 loss, OU lost to CU, UGa couldn't even win their division and lost to 6-6 chump at home, USC lost at home to 41 pt underdog STANFORD.

taking your sentiment, after Dallas has already proven on the field that they can beat the NYG, not once, but twice, what business is it of NYG to be on the field for a 3rd chance? that's the NFL way though, just make it to the playoffs and take care of it then. the D1-A model is to be prepared from week 1 onward, no 2nd chances.

4-5 TDs is a lot, but that happens fairly often w/ top 10 caliber teams, also, that's how much you're generally up by when you sit your starters for the ENTIRE 2nd half (minus the obligatory 1st series)

You made your justifications for how you felt the voters voted. It's still subjective, which is my point. Sure, Dallas beat the Giants twice during the regular season, but everyone in the NFL knows how the system works. Dallas won their Division, in part by beating the Giants twice. It guaranteed them a home playoff game, and their best record in the NFC gave them a first round bye and allowed them to play the lowest seeded team remaining. The rules to have a chance at the title in the NFL are clearly defined. What are the rules to be the national champion? Don't lose and play opponents we think are tough enough? It's completely subjective. And as I said, if that's how they want the system to be, that's OK with me. I personally think a 8 team play-off is better. I feel like there are years when what most people could agree is the best team does win the National Title. There are other years when you'd like to see a play-off because a few teams are really pretty damn good.

Ankf00

01-16-08, 02:08 PM

I'm cool with a 4 or 8 team too, just saying that w/ every system mfr's are going to whine to high heaven when they lose within whatever the system may be.

Ankf00

01-16-08, 03:48 PM

Major is coming back home! :)

dando

03-19-08, 12:11 PM

And the winner is....(queues Hang on Sloopy)....

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/news/story?id=3301454

Terrelle Pryor, the nation's top-ranked high school quarterback according to the ESPN 150 and the top unsigned senior, announced that he'll attend Ohio State at the news conference at his high school in Pennsylvania on Wednesday.

Is this a good thing? :saywhat:

GO BUCKS! :cool:

Suck it, Rich Rich...and I hope you get it in the @ss by WVU in court, too. :gomer:

-Kevin

Sean O'Gorman

03-19-08, 12:16 PM

I figure that Pryor is good for either 4 national championships, or 1 really, really interesting Fulmer Cup. :p

dando

03-19-08, 12:20 PM

I figure that Pryor is good for either 4 national championships, or 1 really, really interesting Fulmer Cup. :p

I just hope the anger management class he has to take after the brawl following the state tourney semi finals solve his anger issues. Apparently it did wonders for Smoke. :saywhat: :shakehead

I'm just not sure this is a good thing. :\

-Kevin

Insomniac

03-19-08, 06:42 PM

I just hope the anger management class he has to take after the brawl following the state tourney semi finals solve his anger issues. Apparently it did wonders for Smoke. :saywhat: :shakehead

I'm just not sure this is a good thing. :\

-Kevin

I have no problem with RR getting screwed now and OSU getting screwed later. :p

dando

03-19-08, 07:37 PM

I have no problem with RR getting screwed now and OSU getting screwed later. :p

You make me wanna cheer for the Yankees. :gomer:

-Kevin

Don Quixote

03-19-08, 07:54 PM

He might just take us the the championship game again! :D
2006 fb 2nd place
2007 bb 2nd place
2007 fb 2nd place
2008 men's soccer 2nd place
2008 fencing ........ national champs!!! :thumbup: :D

nrc

03-19-08, 09:43 PM

I just hope the anger management class he has to take after the brawl following the state tourney semi finals solve his anger issues. Apparently it did wonders for Smoke. :saywhat: :shakehead

I'm just not sure this is a good thing. :\

-Kevin

Maybe they could send him to talk with Maurice Clarett about the benefits of keeping your head screwed on tight.

Ankf00

03-19-08, 09:44 PM

He might just take us the the championship game again! :D
2006 fb 2nd place
2007 bb 2nd place
2007 fb 2nd place
2008 men's soccer 2nd place

translation:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/spankytoes/Bills.jpg

Andrew Longman

03-19-08, 10:21 PM

When is last Fall not in the air and this Fall is in the air? Just want to follow etiquette.

BTW Rutgers had a pretty stout recruiting class. I think three of their top recruits even inrolled early so they are part of Spring practice.

Ankf00

03-19-08, 10:59 PM

When is last Fall not in the air and this Fall is in the air? Just want to follow etiquette.

I believe sometime before fall camps when the polls start coming out

nrc

03-19-08, 11:44 PM

translation:
http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k19/spankytoes/Bills.jpg

Of course there's a flaw in that...
http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w01/img.107232_t.jpg

dando

03-20-08, 12:46 AM

He might just take us the the championship game again! :D
2006 fb 2nd place
2007 bb 2nd place
2007 fb 2nd place
2008 men's soccer 2nd place
2008 fencing ........ national champs!!! :D

See the Location I've been using lately? :gomer: You also missed the AFL Destroyers as #2 in the AFL. Plus Tribe #2 in the AL last season. Oy. :saywhat:

-Kevin

dando

03-20-08, 12:54 AM

Of course there's a flaw in that...
http://images.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/_photos/2003-01-03-inside-tressel.jpg

Fixed that for ya, Boss. :)

-Kevin

Ankf00

03-20-08, 01:35 AM

games decided by paid off refs don't count :gomer:

Columbus Bills, holla!

nrc

03-20-08, 01:59 AM

games decided by paid off refs don't count :gomer:

Columbus Bills, holla!

You're just bitter because the loss to Ohio State was your last meaningful game. :gomer:

Sean O'Gorman

03-20-08, 08:57 AM

Of course there's a flaw in that...
http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w01/img.107232_t.jpg

Come on nrc, didn't you know that championship didn't count? According to the inbred SEC faithful, UGA would've stomped both OSU and da U, but since they have such easy schedules, they got to play for the BCS championship, and UGA had to settle for the Confederate National Championship. :gomer:

Insomniac

03-20-08, 09:07 AM

http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w01/img.107232_t.jpg

Courtesy of Willis McGahee's knee.

Sorry, thought you wanted us to caption it. ;)

nrc

03-20-08, 01:13 PM

Courtesy of Willis McGahee's knee.

Sorry, thought you wanted us to caption it. ;)

games decided by paid off refs don't count :gomer:

Columbus Bills, holla!

Note: thread title says "Fall" not "Excuses".

Ankf00

03-20-08, 01:24 PM

it says "fall"

but it really means "fail"

and as usual, tOSU lives up to it. :gomer:

Don Quixote

03-20-08, 02:28 PM

I can't hear you, I have the fencing national championship ring in my ear. :p

Ankf00

03-20-08, 03:01 PM

:rofl:

ferrarigod

03-21-08, 08:52 PM

gators are $m@r1!

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/8370/n2045901345928297033tm9.jpg

i said its great to be a florida sro-tag, i said it's great to be a florida sro-tag!

Sean O'Gorman

03-22-08, 08:33 AM

Needs more jorts.

ferrarigod

03-22-08, 11:22 AM

Needs more jorts.

more of an Ohio thing last time I checked. probably a bunch of clevelanders.

Sean O'Gorman

03-22-08, 02:05 PM

more of an Ohio thing last time I checked. probably a bunch of clevelanders.

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3783/tebowjortszw2.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/7536/gatorjortstj9.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2364/2329386374_47b7d57a8e.jpg?v=0

Check it out, its one of your teams, making fun of one of your other teams!

ferrarigod

03-22-08, 02:49 PM

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/3783/tebowjortszw2.jpg

you do realize its a photoshop right?

Ankf00

03-22-08, 02:51 PM

i believe it's your responsibility to provide the original photo which was 'shopped.

otherwise we call shenanigans.

coolhand

03-23-08, 12:02 AM

[

Check it out, its one of your teams, making fun of one of your other teams!

lololololololol

ferrarigod

03-23-08, 12:10 AM

i believe it's your responsibility to provide the original photo which was 'shopped.

otherwise we call shenanigans.

http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/3505/leaktebowak9vp6.jpg

If my memory serves, it was given out in the Spring Game of '06.

great 'shop, but still not real. its also at the local firehouse subs and a few other places framed if you want me to take a digital picture.

notice how it says Chris Leak next to Leak in small letters in both, but the p'shop doesn't have that for Timmy. its not just a coincidence.

ferrarigod

03-23-08, 12:16 AM

Check it out, its one of your teams, making fun of one of your other teams!

Yea, that is FUNNY! Almost as funny as Cleveland being a State. I never knew there was such a viking problem in Lake Erie.

Guess they don't teach that in any Florida land grant, and I would know! Sorry that I like to go to more than 1 school cause of personal reasons and they just happen to both not be in such a beautiful locale as Cleveland. I guess I really missed out.

aww shucks.