Hey Boss,

[Kiwifan]

I like this place. Like a lot of folk I go to other places to get my crazy Champ Car/gossip fix but OC is my Port in a Storm, my shelter from the crap that is going down on the other sites.

I know I don't post as much as I used to but I'm stuck with the general malaise that many are going through, the decline or rebuilding of OW racing. We all love this sport, have many opinions on how it should be run (wanna hear mine? lol.) and want to get our point across but lately I've noticed a bit of sniping going on. Come on guys, this is OC. Differing opinions are great, and healthy! but lets keep it civil. Just my humble opinion and 2 cents worth. For what its worth! Lol.

Carry on. Oh, did I tell ya I'm going to to Surfers? For the racing? Without a Hardcard? :) And I'm not an insider nor have I ever met one. I did hold open a gate for Bobby once, two years before he ratted out. Shoulda shut it on him. ;)

Oh yeah, thanks Boss, appreciate this place and what it represents mate. :thumbup:

Rusty.

[Insomniac]

Unfortunately, it only takes a couple people to devolve a thread. And while I'm a big believer that post count is not an accurate way to judge someone, it is some of the newer posters (either by join date or post count) who get involved. It's hard to avoid, but I think the majority of people here keep it civil and those newer posters learn what is allowed and what isn't.

One locked thread every month or so isn't bad at all. No need to worry Rusty. :)

[RHR_Fan]

Carry on. Oh, did I tell ya I'm going to to Surfers? For the racing? Without a Hardcard? :) And I'm not an insider nor have I ever met one. I did hold open a gate for Bobby once, two years before he ratted out. Shoulda shut it on him.

Oh yeah, thanks Boss, appreciate this place and what it represents mate. :thumbup:

Rusty.

No hardcard?! :eek: ;)

I agree with you bud. I may post at other forums, but OC is something special and different.

[nrc]

Thanks! We're glad to have you and happy that you still enjoy the place. :thumbup:

[Sean Malone]

Unfortunately, it only takes a couple people to devolve a thread. And while I'm a big believer that post count is not an accurate way to judge someone, it is some of the newer posters (either by join date or post count) who get involved. It's hard to avoid, but I think the majority of people here keep it civil and those newer posters learn what is allowed and what isn't.

One locked thread every month or so isn't bad at all. No need to worry Rusty. :)

I love vague innuendo! :thumbup:

[devilmaster]

I love vague innuendo! :thumbup:

you ain't new. you still have more posts than I do! ;) :D

[Ankf00]

Hey man, I've been doing my part taking it easy on the small batch bourbon lately :D

[FTG]

OC is something special and different.

IMO, it used to be. Now its the who hates paper most forum. But like I keep saying, the past isn't returning. No sense going all Robin Miller on management for letting things deteriorate. If you don't like the changes you can move on. Any attempt to change things will result in the creation of a who hates Off Camber most forum. (Some things are much more predictable than Robin Miller getting fired.)

[jonovision_man]

Love this place.

It's a ChampCar fan rainbow, it's got every opinion under the sun. Never felt I had to censor my opinion (although sometimes I've had to censor the words I chose to express it! ;))

Who could hate paper? The ,,,,, thing is hilarious. :) Good heart.

jono

[Indy]

The world is garbage.
I am told my kid is "too nice" by people who teach their kids to lie, cheat, and go for the throat.
People are worthless lying scum who will sell you out for a nickel.
We are all clever monkeys at best, demons incarnate at worst.
To be a sociopath is to be normal, and to be decent is to be eaten.
The sooner the killer asteroid hits, the better.

But I like OC a lot.

[SteveH]

This is undoubtedly the most civil forum I've visited. No extreme hate. Just normal conversation between adults. And Spicoli. ;)

[Insomniac]

IMO, it used to be. Now its the who hates paper most forum. But like I keep saying, the past isn't returning. No sense going all Robin Miller on management for letting things deteriorate. If you don't like the changes you can move on. Any attempt to change things will result in the creation of a who hates Off Camber most forum. (Some things are much more predictable than Robin Miller getting fired.)

:rolleyes: One or two threads and < 10 members out of 913. Yeah, OC is nothing but paper haters. The overwhelming majority don't care about paper or the other forums. Maybe you should take your own advice and move on from OC if it's so bad.

[KLang]

:rolleyes: One or two threads and < 10 members out of 913. Yeah, OC is nothing but paper haters. The overwhelming majority don't care about paper or the other forums. Maybe you should take your own advice and move on from OC if it's so bad.

Good point, but, the paper haters have been quite vocal (wordy ;) ) here lately.

[FTG]

Yep. I don't need to be here, but you used to be able to get intelligent discussion here. People who actually knew what line both drivers were supposed to hold would talk about racing. Now ,,,,,, is considered the funniest thing since your fourth grade teacher farted in front of the class.

[nrc]

The truth is that we've taken much more flack for "protecting" people than we've ever taken for allowing attacks. There are just as many knowledgeable fans who don't post here often because they can't call out "****tards" as because they're offended by juvenile punctuation habits. That's the way it goes.

The current discussion is difficult. When a person we normally deal with as just another fan apparently claims to have been personally involved in events relevant to the series as a whole things start to get fuzzy. It's fair for people to say that they think that what was done is wrong.

Some have argued that people like that, both among Champ car fans and detractors, become "public figures" and therefore are fair game in the same way as series participants and owners. We feel like that gives those people more status and attention than they deserve - which is exactly what they want.

[devilmaster]

:rolleyes: One or two threads and < 10 members out of 913. Yeah, OC is nothing but paper haters. The overwhelming majority don't care about paper or the other forums. Maybe you should take your own advice and move on from OC if it's so bad.

Rep for you, but I need to convince the boss to add the app first.

nrc? I know I'm askin for alot of updates like the youtube vid thingy and i thanked you for that, could we have the rep/negrep app too? ;) :D j/k. I don't wanna be in the red all the time. :)

[jonovision_man]

Yep. I don't need to be here, but you used to be able to get intelligent discussion here. People who actually knew what line both drivers were supposed to hold would talk about racing. Now ,,,,,, is considered the funniest thing since your fourth grade teacher farted in front of the class.

Ahh, Mrs. Henry... she could really rip 'em. :gomer:

jono

[FTG]

The truth is that we've taken much more flack for "protecting" people than we've ever taken for allowing attacks. There are just as many knowledgeable fans who don't post here often because they can't call out "****tards" as because they're offended by juvenile punctuation habits. That's the way it goes.

The current discussion is difficult. When a person we normally deal with as just another fan apparently claims to have been personally involved in events relevant to the series as a whole things start to get fuzzy. It's fair for people to say that they think that what was done is wrong.

Some have argued that people like that, both among Champ car fans and detractors, become "public figures" and therefore are fair game in the same way as series participants and owners. We feel like that gives those people more status and attention than they deserve - which is exactly what they want.

People can say whatever they want about Paper. He likes the attention anyway.

What's changed is the constant implication that a three year old forum war which no sane adult could give a **** about, is more important than what happens on track. That if you had a beer with someone at the track three years ago, where that person fits in the alleged hierarchy of coolness, is more important than anything that happened on track. That posting at other forums - not what you say there, but your mere presence there - is more important than anything that happens on track. That "commatard" is considered an intelligent and effective rebuttal. That there's something wrong with you if you'd like to have a discussion above the level of grade 4.

I really did used to come here for intelligent racing conversation. Now it's like when your favorite restaurant goes bad. You pop in once in a while to see if the food's gotten any better, and maybe throw back a beer for old times sake, but even before you walk through the door you know you're going to be disappointed.

[Warlock!]

I really did used to come here for intelligent racing conversation. Now it's like when your favorite restaurant goes bad. You pop in once in a while to see if the food's gotten any better, and maybe throw back a beer for old times sake, but even before you walk through the door you know you're going to be disappointed.
Kinda like champcar nowadays. If you want intelligent racing discussions, you're going to have to talk about a series that's not full of clowns.

[FTG]

Kinda like champcar nowadays. If you want intelligent racing discussions, you're going to have to talk about a series that's not full of clowns.

I guess I just miss the days when the forum for "Champ Car enthusiasts" actually had "Champ Car enthusiasts."

The non racing forums, however, are still fun and eclectic. Probably why I still drop in. The food sucks, but the beers still cold.

Maybe if management changes the sign out front to "forums for old Champ Car enthusiasts who are now more interested in attacking Champ Car and pursuing childish personal vendettas" I'll stop coming by the old joint. Nothing lasts forever, you can't live in the past, change happens and there's lots of places to get a cold beer.

[miatanut]

I guess I just miss the days when the forum for "Champ Car enthusiasts" actually had "Champ Car enthusiasts."

The non racing forums, however, are still fun and eclectic. Probably why I still drop in. The food sucks, but the beers still cold.

Maybe if management changes the sign out front to "forums for old Champ Car enthusiasts who are now more interested in attacking Champ Car and pursuing childish personal vendettas" I'll stop coming by the old joint. Nothing lasts forever, you can't live in the past, change happens and there's lots of places to get a cold beer.

I would say Champ Car Fantasyland is the best place for that. The folks who are interested in stuff like different lines drivers are taking, who screwed themselves making top gear too short, who seems to be using a lower downforce setup, etc. are largely unimpressed with the current direction of Champ Car.

[Dr. Corkski]

I am here for the tenderloins.

[Sean Malone]

I guess I just miss the days when the forum for "Champ Car enthusiasts" actually had "Champ Car enthusiasts."

The non racing forums, however, are still fun and eclectic. Probably why I still drop in. The food sucks, but the beers still cold.

Maybe if management changes the sign out front to "forums for old Champ Car enthusiasts who are now more interested in attacking Champ Car and pursuing childish personal vendettas" I'll stop coming by the old joint. Nothing lasts forever, you can't live in the past, change happens and there's lots of places to get a cold beer.

Change is inevitable. It's the one constant in life. Fact: Champ Car has changed. Many think for the worse. You persecute those who think that? Unbelievable.

[Insomniac]

Yep. I don't need to be here, but you used to be able to get intelligent discussion here. People who actually knew what line both drivers were supposed to hold would talk about racing.


I really did used to come here for intelligent racing conversation.


I guess I just miss the days when the forum for "Champ Car enthusiasts" actually had "Champ Car enthusiasts."

When was the last time YOU started an intelligent, technical thread to have a discussion like the ones you miss? Are you able to find these discussions elsewhere?

[greenie]

I am here for the tenderloins.

Me too (except for the tenderloins). :gomer:

I'm a low post count participant and may take a shot or two off the bow at certain losers, here or there, but I try to do so respectfully and w/in the rules of the forum.

IMO, a free press, for instance, trumps lock-step cheer leading 100% of the time regardless of what side you are on.

If there's an attack on that, IMO it's a serious issue, regardless of whether it's the good guys doing so or the bad guys. Funny that RM is the evil incarnate in IWARM world, as well as at present by folks on the Champ Car side who couldn't put a coherent sentence together at gunpoint.

And that really has to make you think because the purveyors of that crap are arguably being taken seriously by the ownership of Champ Car. That's a real serious issue IMO, and worth discussion.

Supporting Champ Car is voluntary. The utter ineptitude by Champ Car in screwing Miller is VERY CLOSE to a deal breaker for me. If that policy is being nudged along by the owners of the series or internet superheros, that desrves exposure and discussion.

IMHO.

[Kiwifan]

Well said greenie. See we can all have an intelligent discussion. :)

Seriously Boss, thanks. To each and every one of you who have helped me as a fan, thank you too. :thumbup:

Lets hope we are rebuilding, as everyone says we are. ;)

Rusty.

[EDwardo]

I like OC. My love and enthusiasm for racing, especially Champ car, has been shaped by being a fan for 40 years. One thing I have learned is that racing never stays the same. I have never been shy about criticizing aspects of change and evolution. Each fan is free to abandon any racing series whatever the reason. What annoys me are strident and outraged rants often offered as reasons for becoming an ex fan.
So I just ignore them.
On the whole, OC remains less infected by such antics.

I have other reasons why I am attached to this forum. I have great respect for its founder, wickerbill. I have had quite a few interesting conversations with him over the years. And when he had to move on he chose wisely who to hand over the reigns to. When I first joined here I was going through a difficult time in my life. Racegrrl was a great friend to me and I shall never forget her kindness. And although I haven't gotten to know NRC as well, he comes with great credentials.

And finally I must mention the small group of my fellow knuckleheads here that regularly disregard the time and gather for an F1 chat during races.

[WickerBill]

Something to think about when you're thinking OC has become discontent with CC:

The vast majority of the people here, and I mean vast, chose CART during the split because A. the reasons given for the IRL were lies, and the real reason was political, and B. the "stars and cars" were staying in CART.

Then, the majority of people here at OC came over from Seventhgear -- chose OC, if you will -- because the changes at 7G (ownership from JP and Angel to Tara) and the resulting politics (kiss "the girls"' butts or you're an outcast, some IRL features, people who send gifts to the moderator/owner get obvious preferential treatment, etc.) made people sick.

So basically, the membership here is derived from people who disliked current politics enough to make a big change TWICE -- first, they stopped caring about the race that until that time was the most important on the planet, and later, changed the forum they had been members of for many years to join a fledgling new one -- with less politics.

Should it really be a shock that this same group of people dislikes the current situation, political and otherwise, in the current Champcar? I'm surprised this group hasn't had a tea party in a harbor somewhere. We are a group who have always known what we want and are disappointed when we do not get it. However, unlike the first two situations, where we had obvious choices to make, this time we don't have a choice, or say, in what is happening.

Just my two copper discs.

[EDwardo]

The Broncos suck.

But I can't do anything about that either.

;)

[opinionated ow]

The Broncos suck.

But I can't do anything about that either.

;)

yup, I don't like brisbane either ;)

[Cam]

WB.... Always the voice of clarity in a world where things can be so dark. :thumbup:

[JLMannin]

Something to think about when you're thinking OC has become discontent with CC:

The vast majority of the people here, and I mean vast, chose CART during the split because A. the reasons given for the IRL were lies, and the real reason was political, and B. the "stars and cars" were staying in CART.

Then, the majority of people here at OC came over from Seventhgear -- chose OC, if you will -- because the changes at 7G (ownership from JP and Angel to Tara) and the resulting politics (kiss "the girls"' butts or you're an outcast, some IRL features, people who send gifts to the moderator/owner get obvious preferential treatment, etc.) made people sick.

So basically, the membership here is derived from people who disliked current politics enough to make a big change TWICE -- first, they stopped caring about the race that until that time was the most important on the planet, and later, changed the forum they had been members of for many years to join a fledgling new one -- with less politics.

Should it really be a shock that this same group of people dislikes the current situation, political and otherwise, in the current Champcar? I'm surprised this group hasn't had a tea party in a harbor somewhere. We are a group who have always known what we want and are disappointed when we do not get it. However, unlike the first two situations, where we had obvious choices to make, this time we don't have a choice, or say, in what is happening.

Just my two copper discs.

Well said. Even if the Champcar forum were closed down on this site, I would still come here to participate in the others, F1, and community discussions. I have found many like minded individuals here.

[Indy]

Right on, WB. Couldn't have said it better.

[Insomniac]

Well said. Even if the Champcar forum were closed down on this site, I would still come here to participate in the others, F1, and community discussions. I have found many like minded individuals here.

Does that mean we're all drinking the same Kool-Aid? ;)

[Cam]

Does that mean we're all drinking the same Kool-Aid? ;)

Whut's Kool Aid? ;)

[RaceGrrl]

This is from Wickerbill's welcome, when these forums opened.

I will strive, as I always have, to be even-handed with everyone, despite my personal feelings on any topic you post about. If you post that Gil deFerran is a classless idiot, I will grit my teeth and post a rebuttal, but I will not censor you.

We don't care if the members of OC call Gentilozzi or anyone else officially connected to ChampCar a classless idiot. Where that line has been blurred is when ChampCar fans present themselves as being officially connected when in fact, they are not. Don't feed the monkeys.

[Sean Malone]

Something to think about when you're thinking OC has become discontent with CC:

The vast majority of the people here, and I mean vast, chose CART during the split because A. the reasons given for the IRL were lies, and the real reason was political, and B. the "stars and cars" were staying in CART.

Then, the majority of people here at OC came over from Seventhgear -- chose OC, if you will -- because the changes at 7G (ownership from JP and Angel to Tara) and the resulting politics (kiss "the girls"' butts or you're an outcast, some IRL features, people who send gifts to the moderator/owner get obvious preferential treatment, etc.) made people sick.

So basically, the membership here is derived from people who disliked current politics enough to make a big change TWICE -- first, they stopped caring about the race that until that time was the most important on the planet, and later, changed the forum they had been members of for many years to join a fledgling new one -- with less politics.

Should it really be a shock that this same group of people dislikes the current situation, political and otherwise, in the current Champcar? I'm surprised this group hasn't had a tea party in a harbor somewhere. We are a group who have always known what we want and are disappointed when we do not get it. However, unlike the first two situations, where we had obvious choices to make, this time we don't have a choice, or say, in what is happening.

Just my two copper discs.

best post ever. :thumbup:

[Insomniac]

This is from Wickerbill's welcome, when these forums opened.

I will strive, as I always have, to be even-handed with everyone, despite my personal feelings on any topic you post about. If you post that Gil deFerran is a classless idiot, I will grit my teeth and post a rebuttal, but I will not censor you.

We don't care if the members of OC call Gentilozzi or anyone else officially connected to ChampCar a classless idiot. Where that line has been blurred is when ChampCar fans present themselves as being officially connected when in fact, they are not. Don't feed the monkeys.

Hey! You called them monkeys! :p

[JLMannin]

Does that mean we're all drinking the same Kool-Aid? ;)

I should have said " . . . . individuals that have similar interests" instead of " . . . . . . like minded individuals"

Tang is the better analogy. It is something we remember fondly that is no longer available.

[G.]

Tang is the better analogy. It is something we remember fondly that is no longer available.Yeah, after 4 kids, one of whom is still in diapers, I do fondly remember when 'tang was available...:cry:

:p

[devilmaster]

best post ever. :thumbup:

gotta agree :thumbup:

[Insomniac]

I should have said " . . . . individuals that have similar interests" instead of " . . . . . . like minded individuals"

Tang is the better analogy. It is something we remember fondly that is no longer available.

You can still buy Tang. :p

[greenie]

You can still buy Tang. :p

http://www.indycar.com/drivers/images/headshots/tscheckter.jpg

You sure can. :tony:

[Natty]

The utter ineptitude by Champ Car in screwing Miller is VERY CLOSE to a deal breaker for me.

I watch racing because of sideline reporting too. :gomer: ;)

[Ziggy]

"Yeah, after 4 kids, one of whom is still in diapers, I do fondly remember when 'tang was available..."

I thought this was funny, and I don't even have kids!

Nice to see you Natty, you all jazzed about those useless, hairless nuts?

:rofl:

[SteveH]

I watch racing because of sideline reporting too. :gomer: ;)

You still have internet access? :gomer: