Gordon Kirby

[TurboV8]

My wife and I were sitting at the bar at Siebkens on Sunday night having a night cap around 11:00pm or so. Gordon Kirby was there drinking with some people that I recognized from Newman Haas. Kirby came up to the bar to get a drink and one of our Canadian friends asked him a question, I don't remember exactly what the question was but something sarcastic about TG. Kirby,who had obviously already had a few pops seemed pissed off and started ranting about KK and Paul Gentilozzi. He said that CCWS would never amount to anything as long as those two, and I quote, "a**holes" had anything to do with the series. He then went on to say that a big story about KK would be out soon and that KK will be going to jail. :eek:

[Chief]

Maybe Kirby is Wilke or *******. Maybe you're all three! :confused:

[stroker]

Maybe Kirby is Wilke or *******. Maybe you're all three! :confused:

You're one asterisk short of "D******r". Did you miscount?

:)

[Corner5]

slander

A type of defamation. Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. If the statement is made via broadcast media -- for example, over the radio or on TV -- it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience.


The truth is these journalists are walking a fine line.There is no truth in Kirby's statement and he just opened himself up to a lawsuit with witnesses.

http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/85BAB88B-0660-4AB6-A2F5C32E716A6D52

In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, internet blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.

[trauma1]

BS where the f do you get slander, if anything they should go after a certain internet poster for trying to ruin them, god how much paroof do you need to see that a certain paper car maker is being used by KK and PG to ruin people, wake the F up to reality,:shakehead

[Spicoli]

slander

A type of defamation. Slander is an untruthful oral (spoken) statement about a person that harms the person's reputation or standing in the community. Because slander is a tort (a civil wrong), the injured person can bring a lawsuit against the person who made the false statement. If the statement is made via broadcast media -- for example, over the radio or on TV -- it is considered libel, rather than slander, because the statement has the potential to reach a very wide audience.


The truth is these journalists are walking a fine line.There is no truth in Kirby's statement and he just opened himself up to a lawsuit with witnesses.

http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/term/85BAB88B-0660-4AB6-A2F5C32E716A6D52

In law, defamation is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may harm the reputation of an individual, business, product, group, government or nation. Most jurisdictions allow legal actions, civil and/or criminal, to deter various kinds of defamation and retaliate against criticism.
The common law origins of defamation lie in the torts of slander (harmful statement in a transitory form, especially speech) and libel (harmful statement in a fixed medium, especially writing but also a picture, sign, or electronic broadcast), each of which gives a common law right of action.
"Defamation" is the general term used internationally, and is used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between "slander" and "libel". Libel and slander both require publication. The fundamental distinction between libel and slander lies solely in the form in which the defamatory matter is published. If the offending material is published in some fleeting form, as by spoken words or sounds, sign language, gestures and the like, then this is slander. If it is published in more durable form, for example in written words, film, compact disc (CD), DVD, internet blogging and the like, then it is considered libel.

oh c'mon. :laugh:

I know you better than that,,,,maybe you need,,,a patent attorney,,,:laugh:

[Corner5]

We shall see.

[trauma1]

We shall see.

thought you were smarter than this:shakehead

[Methanolandbrats]

Even if this happened, talking bull**** in a tavern is hearsay. The original post is a weak troll, a 2/10 at the most.:shakehead

[Corner5]

thought you were smarter than this:shakehead

I thought you were too.

[trauma1]

and you believe the paper car maker:rolleyes:

[Spicoli]

I thought you were too.

Whoa Nellie! :D

if ANY of this BS posted on forums, said over beers, mumbled in the paddock ever made a difference to the point that some "lawsuit" came about, it would be a first. the fact that it has never happened means that it doesn;t make a bit of diff.

Wilke and the rest of the unwashed at TF have alleged for YEARS that KK is a crook and is on the verge of being trotted off to jail pending some half-baked Federal trial they all dream up in hopes of tearing down CCWS. They simply DON'T KNOW, but grab at straws to fit their agenda.

Maybe KK is in trubble, maybe not. We shall see. But saying Kirby's going to get sued over it because of some rumblings over beers in a bar? :laugh:

Here's one: Tony George is an idiot an is going broke.


I'll let ya know when I get served my papers. :tony:

Respectfully,
SpickTard.

[trauma1]

Whoa Nellie! :D

if ANY of this BS posted on forums, said over beers, mumbled in the paddock ever made a difference to the point that some "lawsuit" came about, it would be a first. the fact that it has never happened means that it doesn;t make a bit of diff.

Wilke and the rest of the unwashed at TF have alleged for YEARS that KK is a crook and is on the verge of being trotted off to jail pending some half-baked Federal trial they all dream up in hopes of tearing down CCWS. They simply DON'T KNOW, but grab at straws to fit their agenda.

Maybe KK is in trubble, maybe not. We shall see. But saying Kirby's going to get sued over it because of some rumblings over beers in a bar? :laugh:

Here's one: Tony George is an idiot an is going broke.


I'll let ya know when I get served my papers. :tony:

Respectfully,
SpickTard.

HATER:rofl:

[SteveH]

I'll let ya know when I get served my papers. :tony:

Respectfully,
SpickTard.

There's a legal firm in Hawaii.

I'm just sayin,,,,,,,,,,,

:D

[Spicoli]

There's a legal firm in Hawaii.

I'm just sayin,,,,,,,,,,,

:D

its all my fault. :cry:

[trauma1]

its all my fault. :cry:

AGAIN:rofl:

[Chief]

its all my fault. :cry:
Yeah, I got your defense right here......
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Beeramid.JPG


Or, you could use the "two beer defense"....
http://www.totaldui.com/dui_articles_dui_defense.htm

[trauma1]

Yeah, I got your defense right here......
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Beeramid.JPG


Or, you could use the "two beer defense"....
http://www.totaldui.com/dui_articles_dui_defense.htm

yeah like we've never stopped after only 2 beers:gomer:

[SteveH]

nice cans ;) :D

[Spicoli]

I would never drink "Lite" beer. Unless of course someone gave me one. :)

[devilmaster]

Here's one: Tony George is an idiot an is going broke.


I'll let ya know when I get served my papers. :tony:

Respectfully,
SpickTard.

:rofl:

You get served papers from him, all you need to do is start a website asking for legal fee donations. With whatcha got left over after the case, you could probably go buy a couple dp01's and start a team. :D :tony:

[Indy]

I would never drink "Lite" beer. Unless of course someone gave me one. :)

Who brought all that Lite anyway? It's all that guys fault. :D

[Indy]

I thought you were too.

I am having trouble imagining your motivation here. You are not one for CCFantasies, yet you jump to the defense of KK against this (alleged) statement made by GK, who probably is more in tune with what is going on than most of us. Why?

Regardless, the real story here is that people in the press, and I assume GK is one as well, just no longer care about Champ Car. Champ Car can pull their hard cards or whatever, but it will not matter because CC no longer has any power over those who are determined to leave it behind.

[devilmaster]

Regardless, the real story here is that people in the press, and I assume GK is one as well, just no longer care about Champ Car. Champ Car can pull their hard cards or whatever, but it will not matter because CC no longer has any power over those who are determined to leave it behind.

This should be posted in the Robin Miller thread as well.

We can all harp about who said what and when, but the deed is done. There is talk that media outlets like Speed may not bother with CC now. If that happens, CC may lose ways of getting their message out to the public, when CC needs all the press it can get.

[Indy]

This should be posted in the Robin Miller thread as well.

We can all harp about who said what and when, but the deed is done. There is talk that media outlets like Speed may not bother with CC now. If that happens, CC may lose ways of getting their message out to the public, when CC needs all the press it can get.

Yeah, that sound you hear may be a camel's back breaking.

[devilmaster]

Yeah, that sound you hear may be a camel's back breaking.

I personally don't think so, but why make life harder for yourself and your PR team by alienating those who write about you professionally?

That's the question I can't answer and the question that is more important to me. The who said what and when and how is all window dressing.

a comparison if you will: Say a guy goes out on the town, gets really drunk, picks up some chick who's drunk and they go have sex and she gets pregnant. Does it matter what brand of beer he had?

But hey, my 2 cents. I gots to go out now and buy a coffeemaker. Sounds like a beverage to try. :rofl:

[Sean O'Gorman]

Who needs the media anyway? As long as Champ Car has 3-day street festivals, active dialogue with the fans on Internet forums, and truck loads of teeny bopper girls working for the series and the teams because of their "love of the sport", everything will be alright.

[Methanolandbrats]

This should be posted in the Robin Miller thread as well.

We can all harp about who said what and when, but the deed is done. There is talk that media outlets like Speed may not bother with CC now. If that happens, CC may lose ways of getting their message out to the public, when CC needs all the press it can get. No company will place any of their advertising budget with a product the press ignores. If the "press boycott" is true, Champcar stepped on their own balls in a big way.

[Ankf00]

and truck loads of teeny bopper girls working for the series and the teams because of their "love of the sport",

:rofl:

[Chief]

I got news for all of you.....IF someone can make MONEY generating news w/ CCWS race info, SOMEONE WILL be there to report it. Silly Pony spoke at a freakin' Inner Circle meeting not long ago for crise sakes....there's PLENTY to pick up the slack and AR1, Motorsport, Paddock Talk and even Deep Throttle are all waiting for an opportunity. I don't condone messin' with the mainstream media but the reality is there's gonna be someone in the wings.

And frankly, Tony F'N George is living proof even a lying cheatin' scoundrel can suck up enough curiosity seeking race fans to get the job done, and he's screwed with the media a zillion times to prove it. Taser Martin, Miller and Ed "Stripped credentials" Hinton are just a few that still cross the lines frequently but still draw $$$ from their trade.

[Ripped]

Yeah, that sound you hear may be a camel's back breaking.

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!!:shakehead :shakehead

[nrc]

Looking at the speedtv.com site right now I don't see any sign of a problem. Good Saturday and Sunday stories from David Malsher who writes for AutoSport.

Is this a tempest in a teapot?

[Sean Malone]

I got news for all of you.....IF someone can make MONEY generating news w/ CCWS race info, SOMEONE WILL be there to report it. Silly Pony spoke at a freakin' Inner Circle meeting not long ago for crise sakes....there's PLENTY to pick up the slack and AR1, Motorsport, Paddock Talk and even Deep Throttle are all waiting for an opportunity.
.

Those you mention may be chomping at the bit to cover CC in a larger fasion but let's not confuse them with actual journalists.

[Chief]

Those you mention may be chomping at the bit to cover CC in a larger fasion but let's not confuse them with actual journalists.
My point is IF there is a real media "lockout" where everyone gives something up to defend Miller/Kirby/etc., SOMEONE will be there to report on it (if they can make $$$). Whether they're actual or faux reporters it's gonna get done. $$$ talks......, we've got a whole IRL series based on drivers that'll strap themselves into *safe* flying deathtraps to collect YEN, what makes you think this'll be any different? And I referring to even SPEEDTV.COM. You think they'll REALLY turn away all them CCWS/CART lovers and haters and their beloved "clicks" on all those pretty advertising links that generate $$$ for the mothership? No way....their probably telling Miller to sharpen his pencil and get to work. Controversy=CA$H

[devilmaster]

I got news for all of you.....IF someone can make MONEY generating news w/ CCWS race info, SOMEONE WILL be there to report it. Silly Pony spoke at a freakin' Inner Circle meeting not long ago for crise sakes....there's PLENTY to pick up the slack and AR1, Motorsport, Paddock Talk and even Deep Throttle are all waiting for an opportunity.

Grrrrr. Chief, I've met ya, shook your hand, consider ya a good guy and all, but i gotta disagree with ya and harshly.

All websites. That's all you mentioned. :shakehead

I'm sure that most, if not all, websites are not available through wire services. Just a guess.

This is the problem I'm having with all of this. You don't blow off mainstream media for websites. No offense to any of those websites you listed, but none of them can compare to the power that a Rupert Murdoch owned racing network can command. Sure, the internet is becoming broader every day, but I'm sure i can walk into my local newspaper office here and not see a majority of those websites on the wire. Websites like those are for the diehards (well, the diehards that are left).

There are only a handful of professional writers who follow this series on a regular basis, and only a few writers who have credentials of newspapers, print magazines, TV and radio work and even book authoring.

Me starting a website tomorrow that is all CC all the time does not make me the same as a Miller, Kirby, Phillips or any other professional writer. Hell, it doesn't even make me the same as a Rabbit.

I just don't see how CC, in its right mind, can blow off or even alienate their professional press corps. You need to grease that palm, even though you don't want to. You play nice with them, take the time to answer their questions honestly and openly, and accept the fact that they may not always write glowing articles.

If you give them nothing bad to write about, then they can't write it.

[Chief]

Whoa man.....

Screw the websites mentioned.......it's about $$$. Are you telling me that Miller's pieces from SpeedTV were syndicated?

[trauma1]

chief you don't fly in an internt papercar maker to spinn, your story, and fire 2 journalist who piiised them off, this was PG's and KK call alot of PG listining to a internet jebus, chief no more koolaide for you, this whole deal with both RM and kirby was an underhanded , lowball TF episode to control the press, and one jebus internt member trying to get crewmembers fired, it's plain where this plan was hatched in the backroom of gentaloser strip club:flame:

[Chief]

chief you don't fly in an internt papercar maker to spinn, your story, and fire 2 journalist who piiised them off, this was PG's and KK call alot of PG listining to a internet jebus, chief no more koolaide for you, this whole deal with both RM and kirby was an underhanded , lowball TF episode to control the press, and one jebus internt member trying to get crewmembers fired, it's plain where this plan was hatched in the backroom of gentaloser strip club:flame:
That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the realities of it all. Inept goofy management aside, I believe if someone can make money they'll bag the boycott and happily put $$ in their pockets. Even Miller too. IMHO.

[KLang]

Is this a tempest in a teapot?

I think nrc has the answer. :thumbup:

[Rus'L]

My wife and I were sitting at the bar at Siebkens on Sunday night having a night cap around 11:00pm or so. Gordon Kirby was there drinking with some people that I recognized from Newman Haas. Kirby came up to the bar to get a drink and one of our Canadian friends asked him a question, I don't remember exactly what the question was but something sarcastic about TG. Kirby,who had obviously already had a few pops seemed pissed off and started ranting about KK and Paul Gentilozzi. He said that CCWS would never amount to anything as long as those two, and I quote, "a**holes" had anything to do with the series. He then went on to say that a big story about KK would be out soon and that KK will be going to jail. :eek:

Well, when he was sober in the pressroom, he didn't have too many nice things to say about TG.

[Chief]

Well, when he was sober in the pressroom, he didn't have too many nice things to say about TG.
Levity! :laugh:

[TurboV8]

Even if this happened, talking bull**** in a tavern is hearsay. The original post is a weak troll, a 2/10 at the most.:shakehead

Even though I am short and not very strong doesn't mean you have to revert to name calling :D.

This came out of Gk's mouth, I only repeated what was said by GK. I heard it with my own ears.

I know I don't post very often. Only when I feel I have something to contribute. I felt this was a worthy post, a 10, not bulls**t.

OK...I feel better now. :)

[trauma1]

Even though I am short and not very strong doesn't mean you have to revert to name calling :D.

This came out of Gk's mouth, I only repeated what was said by GK. I heard it with my own ears.

I know I don't post very often. Only when I feel I have something to contribute. I felt this was a worthy post, a 10, not bulls**t.

OK...I feel better now. :)

some will say anything to remani in the good graces of carpaper and m&m :yuck:

[Corner5]

I am having trouble imagining your motivation here. You are not one for CCFantasies, yet you jump to the defense of KK against this (alleged) statement made by GK, who probably is more in tune with what is going on than most of us. Why?

Regardless, the real story here is that people in the press, and I assume GK is one as well, just no longer care about Champ Car. Champ Car can pull their hard cards or whatever, but it will not matter because CC no longer has any power over those who are determined to leave it behind.

Fact is, there is nothing going on to warrant KK going to jail. He's not on trial for anything criminal. Fact. The JDSU lawsuit is a class action suit against the Company first and foremost with 10 others named that include KK and everyone who worked there.IF it goes to trial,and thats a big if, it will be about a money settlement, no one will be guilty or not. It is a civil case. Most likely the only ones getting anything out of this will be the lawyers.

None of this warrants the lies or half-truths from so-called credible journalists who have an ax to grind because they lost their jobs.Someone go to TF and try to find the thread about JDSU. Luckily I saved something when I saw it.


Starter
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Wilke
Part of the reason they haven't produced as much evidence as the court would like may be that the defendants are hiding it and lying about it.


You do realize that, although it doesn't happen a lot with the internet, that the sort of statements you are making are grounds for a defamation suit? It HAS happened and one web site I know of personnally has been shut down and the owners of said site have been backrupted. Not to mention the posters who had made false statements.


I don't believe any poster has any power to make anything happen in CC. I don't understand your obsession with a certain one, and I can tell you I don't ever think about him or what he says. RM has more ways of getting fired,he doesn't need us. He only has himself to blame. Kirby's actions are immature.

[trauma1]

the immaturity comes from CC it's self they started a fight they cannot win, hiring an internet poster do post thier party line and disinformation is what started this whole thing, they got rid of both RM and gordon from cc because they wrote the truth on what was going on, then yanked rm's hard card this blew up in thier faces, PG has to go thier petty wars with the media is what started this BS, CC manement has driven off most of the poeple that knew how to run the series. johnson is a failure, they drove out claire who would have righted the ship, mauk gone,

[Corner5]

the immaturity comes from CC it's self they started a fight they cannot win, hiring an internet poster do post thier party line and disinformation is what started this whole thing, they got rid of both RM and gordon from cc because they wrote the truth on what was going on, then yanked rm's hard card this blew up in thier faces, PG has to go thier petty wars with the media is what started this BS, CC manement has driven off most of the poeple that knew how to run the series. johnson is a failure, they drove out claire who would have righted the ship, mauk gone,

RM got mad when CC signed with ABC,he had been fired by them and CC was no longer going to be on SPEED. He was heard saying he was going negative because of it.That's when he wrote the article that got him fired from CC.RM knew what would happen. No poster has the power to do that. If you believe that, I feel sorry for you.

Kirby is upset about losing his writing gig, too bad. I do not believe any poster in a forum had anything to do with that either.But I do believe there is more to this story than we know.

you give that guy waaaay too much clout and power.I just don't see it.

[trauma1]

keep towing the m&m and carpaper maker line, you refuses to see the truth of what truely went on, the point is that ownership is using him and a fansite to srpead this crap just like fred nation hired indyfool tho post anti CC crap all over the net

[SteveH]

keep towing the m&m and carpaper maker line, you refuses to see the truth of what truely went on, the point is that ownership is using him and a fansite to srpead this crap just like fred nation hired indyfool tho post anti CC crap all over the net


Whether that is true or not probably will never be proven, however the fact that people are considering that to be true is to the detriment of CC and CC should have taken steps to avoid that. Our perception is our reality. CC needs to be very careful how their actions are perceived. So far, it doesn't look like they have been.

[formulaben]

I don't believe any poster has any power to make anything happen in CC. I don't understand your obsession with a certain one, and I can tell you I don't ever think about him or what he says. RM has more ways of getting fired,he doesn't need us. He only has himself to blame. Kirby's actions are immature.

Probably, but that doesn't automatically disqualify the statement as false.

[oddlycalm]

Is this a tempest in a teapot? More likely to be a gastric backfire in a glass jar with this crowd...:gomer:

oc

[Corner5]

Probably, but that doesn't automatically disqualify the statement as false.

No one is going to jail as a result of this class action civil suit, no one. Therefore to say that as if it is true is slanderous to KK's reputation and business,namely CC.

BTW, did you know JDSU is still in business?

http://www.jdsu.com/

[Indy]

Fact is, there is nothing going on to warrant KK going to jail. He's not on trial for anything criminal. Fact. The JDSU lawsuit is a class action suit against the Company first and foremost with 10 others named that include KK and everyone who worked there.IF it goes to trial,and thats a big if, it will be about a money settlement, no one will be guilty or not. It is a civil case. Most likely the only ones getting anything out of this will be the lawyers.

None of this warrants the lies or half-truths from so-called credible journalists who have an ax to grind because they lost their jobs.Someone go to TF and try to find the thread about JDSU. Luckily I saved something when I saw it.

Your reply here is not logical. My reply was to your accusation of slander, which, even if technically true, is virtually an impossible case to pursue, especially given the circumstances. In that context, your original reply to this thread was so outrageously defensive as to make me wonder why you would take it upon yourself to defend KK so vociferously. Thus my questioning your motivation.

We all know KK is not going to be imprisoned over a civil suit, but we don't know to what GK was referring when he made the statement. Unless you do know, how could you judge it to be slander?


I don't believe any poster has any power to make anything happen in CC. I don't understand your obsession with a certain one, and I can tell you I don't ever think about him or what he says. RM has more ways of getting fired,he doesn't need us. He only has himself to blame. Kirby's actions are immature.

I assume you are referring to Pat/paper. I am not obsessed with him. I rarely ever post about him at all, except that he seems to be involved in this whole RM thing, so naturally he gets dragged into the discussion.

[Corner5]

Whether that is true or not probably will never be proven, however the fact that people are considering that to be true is to the detriment of CC and CC should have taken steps to avoid that. Our perception is our reality. CC needs to be very careful how their actions are perceived. So far, it doesn't look like they have been.

Steve, I don't think CC should address this in the media or forums,its business that doesn't need to be aired in public. I agree with what was done, why should CC give RM a hardcard when he wrote they should sell to TG? Let him get his own, its a priviledge,and he abused it. RM is not censored and is still allowed to our events,just not on CC's generosity. He did it to himself

[Indy]

RM got mad when CC signed with ABC,he had been fired by them and CC was no longer going to be on SPEED. He was heard saying he was going negative because of it.That's when he wrote the article that got him fired from CC.RM knew what would happen. No poster has the power to do that. If you believe that, I feel sorry for you.

Kirby is upset about losing his writing gig, too bad. I do not believe any poster in a forum had anything to do with that either.But I do believe there is more to this story than we know.

you give that guy waaaay too much clout and power.I just don't see it.

Where did you get this information?

[Corner5]

Your reply here is not logical. My reply was to your accusation of slander, which, even if technically true, is virtually an impossible case to pursue, especially given the circumstances. In that context, your original reply to this thread was so outrageously defensive as to make me wonder why you would take it upon yourself to defend KK so vociferously. Thus my questioning your motivation.

We all know KK is not going to be imprisoned over a civil suit, but we don't know to what GK was referring when he made the statement. Unless you do know, how could you judge it to be slander?


He said KK's going to jail ,that's enough, no matter what the reason. It's a lie.

[Indy]

Whether that is true or not probably will never be proven, however the fact that people are considering that to be true is to the detriment of CC and CC should have taken steps to avoid that. Our perception is our reality. CC needs to be very careful how their actions are perceived. So far, it doesn't look like they have been.

^^^ Here is the bottom line, perfectly stated. Real or not, this is the reality CCWS will have to abide.

[Corner5]

Where did you get this information?

Don't you remember the scathing article RM wrote for SPEED after Sebring testing? That's when he found out about the ABC contract.

After he got fired by CC, then RM wrote the article about all the times he got fired and why. It wasn't flattering. Sometimes the universe tries to teach you lesson,some people don't learn and repeat the same behavior over and over.

[formulaben]

No one is going to jail as a result of this class action civil suit, no one. Therefore to say that as if it is true is slanderous to KK's reputation and business,namely CC.

BTW, did you know JDSU is still in business?

http://www.jdsu.com/

I was referring to his A-hole comment.

[Indy]

He said KK's going to jail ,that's enough, no matter what the reason. It's a lie.

What if he murdered his neighbor last week? The point is that you don't know why GK said it. You are making assumptions based on fragmentary data.


Steve, I don't think CC should address this in the media or forums,its business that doesn't need to be aired in public. I agree with what was done, why should CC give RM a hardcard when he wrote the they should sell to TG? Let him get his own, its a priviledge,and he abused it. RM is not censored and is still allowed to our events,just not on CC's generosity. He did it to himself

Ok, now I understand your motivation. You are of the opinion that corporations should push journalists around to force more positive coverage. Personally, I find that point of view to be completely repugnant. In fact, it places the owners of CCWS on the same ethical level as Tony George. And, as the point was made several times above and elsewhere, whether they "win" this battle of not is pointless. If they have proven themselves to be bullies, then they have severed whatever remaining, fragile link exists to the hearts of fans like me (and, I believe, many others).

[Corner5]

I was referring to his A-hole comment.

oh, he can't get sued for that.:)

[formulaben]

Yeah, and my original reply was that it may not necessarily be false. :tony:

[Corner5]

What if he murdered his neighbor last week? The point is that you don't know why GK said it. You are making assumptions based on fragmentary data.



Ok, now I understand your motivation. You are of the opinion that corporations should push journalists around to force more positive coverage. Personally, I find that point of view to be completely repugnant. In fact, it places the owners of CCWS on the same ethical level as Tony George. And, as the point was made several times above and elsewhere, whether they "win" this battle of not is pointless. If they have proven themselves to be bullies, then they have severed whatever remaining, fragile link exists to the hearts of fans like me (and, I believe, many others).

Ah no, I'm all for freedom of the press and RM can write what he wants and no one can stop him, except his employer who doesn't like his writing. RM can say CC should be sold to TG all he wants, just don't expect a hardcard.There are plenty of straight talking journalists who get their views across without getting fired. It just takes common sense and talent.

[Indy]

Ah no, I'm all for freedom of the press and RM can write what he wants and no one can stop him, except his employer who doesn't like his writing. RM can say CC should be sold to TG all he wants, just don't expect a hardcard.There are plenty of straight talking journalists who get their views across without getting fired. It just takes common sense and talent.

Wrong again. It is considered customary for the professional travelling media who cover the series to be issued hard cards. To have one rescinded is not just a slap on the wrist, but a strong message of disapproval colored with a bit of threat as well. CC is no longer his employer, but the sporting organization he is assigned to cover.

What you are saying is that he should respond to their attempt at censorship by censoring himself. Despite your "I am all for freedom of the press" statement, you are not. You are all for freedom of the press so long as they do not insult your friends.

This is all about whether CCWS should be able to bully reporters. You say that they should. I say they should not. But regardless of who is correct, CCWS is making a foolish mistake by appearing to behave this way.

[Corner5]

Wrong again. It is considered customary for the professional travelling media who cover the series to be issued hard cards. To have one rescinded is not just a slap on the wrist, but a strong message of disapproval colored with a bit of threat as well. CC is no longer his employer, but the sporting organization he is assigned to cover.

What you are saying is that he should respond to their attempt at censorship by censoring himself. Despite your "I am all for freedom of the press" statement, you are not. You are all for freedom of the press so long as they do not insult your friends.

This is all about whether CCWS should be able to bully reporters. You say that they should. I say they should not. But regardless of who is correct, CCWS is making a foolish mistake by appearing to behave this way.

No ,what I'm saying is if RM thinks writing that CC should sell to TG is acceptable ,don't expect to get a hardcard.What RM is doing is the same thing you're accusing CC of. Bullying, he's agressive and pushing the limits. You don't get any favors for that. Ask any other journalist.

[SteveH]

Steve, I don't think CC should address this in the media or forums,its business that doesn't need to be aired in public. I agree with what was done, why should CC give RM a hardcard when he wrote they should sell to TG? Let him get his own, its a priviledge,and he abused it. RM is not censored and is still allowed to our events,just not on CC's generosity. He did it to himself

I don't think CC should address this publicly, either. I just think they should be careful how they go about business. For instance, CC is out of the country for 3.5 months now, correct? Was Robin going to Europe/Australia to cover those races? Probably not. Then there's one last race on American soil and the season is over. After that race quietly inform RM that he will not be issued a hard card for the next season. Don't do it immediately before one of the series' biggest weekends! Poor planning. Or actually, no planning at all. I don't know if another forum's member was instrumental in this happening. But there is the appearance that he was. And that should be avoided like the plague. Appearances are everything and right now CC appears to be very petty in its actions.

[Hesketh]

Time to correct some things and question a few others.



I agree with what was done, why should CC give RM a hardcard when he wrote they should sell to TG? Let him get his own, its a priviledge,and he abused it. RM is not censored and is still allowed to our events,just not on CC's generosity. He did it to himself


Just what kind of "generosity" do you think hardcards to "your" events provides? Lots of folks on these forums seem to think a hardcard means CC pays for travel expenses: wrong.

And, sorry, Corner5, but the revocation of a hardcard is a form of censorship.



Ah no, I'm all for freedom of the press and RM can write what he wants and no one can stop him, except his employer who doesn't like his writing. RM can say CC should be sold to TG all he wants, just don't expect a hardcard.There are plenty of straight talking journalists who get their views across without getting fired. It just takes common sense and talent.


SPEED, Robin's employer, is perfectly happy with Robin. Using your logic, that if Robin writes something CC doesn't like, CC isn't going to give him a hardcard, indicates that CC is trying to censor him.

And for the record, Robin is about as "straight talking" as they come. So is Kirby, and you'll notice he's out of a job too. Oh, and in case you had any doubt, both have talent and a lot more common sense than the bozos running the show.



No ,what I'm saying is if RM thinks writing that CC should sell to TG is acceptable ,don't expect to get a hardcard.What RM is doing is the same thing you're accusing CC of. Bullying, he's agressive and pushing the limits. You don't get any favors for that. Ask any other journalist.

What you're saying is that if CC doesn't like the message, they will cut off access. That's censorship any way you slice it.

[SurfaceUnits]

^^^Miller is being censored by SpeedTV. Where is your vitriol towards them?

[Hesketh]

^^^Miller is being censored by SpeedTV. Where is your vitriol towards them?


Apples and oranges. Sorry, but I don't have time to explain to you how the publishing industry works ... or racing ... or the rest of the world. You're on your own there, mate.

[Gnam]

Sideshow Bob = ChampCar :p

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7813/rakejokekn2.png

[Indy]

^^^Miller is being censored by SpeedTV. Where is your vitriol towards them?

How is SPEED censoring Robin?

[Corner5]

It's not censorship if he can still attend the events and write what he wants to.
and he still can. Let me correct you.

[peasant]

Wow, theres some people here I need to take some lessons off, if I could just live in Denial like them my world would be are far happier, my problems gone :rolleyes:

I have to agree with the embedded journalist only policy as well, we've all seen how effectrive that is in getting the truth out there, cos remember if all the media say the war is over, it's over - no matter how many bodybags are needed after that.

Relax people,,,,,,,all is well in champcar,,,,,,,the only problem is these pesky heretics,,,,,

[Indy]

No ,what I'm saying is if RM thinks writing that CC should sell to TG is acceptable ,don't expect to get a hardcard.What RM is doing is the same thing you're accusing CC of. Bullying, he's agressive and pushing the limits. You don't get any favors for that. Ask any other journalist.

So it is all about Robin thinking CC should sell to TG? So, having an idea that differs from the crappie party line justifies censorship from the series itself? If that is truly the motivation behind this, then there is no hope for this series, no hope at all.

Here are some ideas I have from time to time:

CCWS should just sell out to Don Panoz, and thus give the combined company more leverage to schedule better races, and probably the CC half would improve, since clearly the sports car guys know one hell of a lot more about attracting manufacturers, sponsors, teams, talented drivers, etc.

CCWS should sell out to Tony George, so I can at least see some sort of Indy 500 that has some significance, and maybe, just maybe, someday the merged series will morph back into something useful.

CCWS should never have existed, because if Tony had bought the assets of CART, instead of being four years into a hopeless five year plan, we could at least be four years closer to that eventual Indy Car that is worth watching, instead of watching the slow death of CC, then waiting another ten years for Indy Car to become watchable.

You see, any one of those thoughts deserve censorship, right? They would probably get me banned on CCF, right? Does it matter if I only have those thoughts from time to time when I am particularly down on the state of the series? Does it matter that Robin's comment about selling to TG was made in a live chat? Maybe we should just all ban ourselves from being fans unless we are willing to submit to the edicts of the party thought police 24/7.

[Ankf00]

Sideshow Bob = ChampCar :p

http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/7813/rakejokekn2.png

winner. award poster. close thread.



I agree with what was done, why should CC give RM a hardcard when he wrote they should sell to TG? Let him get his own, its a priviledge,and he abused it. RM is not censored and is still allowed to our events,just not on CC's generosity. He did it to himself

from what I said earlier in another thread, if this is proper justification then there's not a sports journalist in the world that would be allowed in their respective beat's clubhouse, they'd all be banned. but then again it all comes back to how most every other sports franchise and brand in the world is managed and how they all turn a profit...

[Corner5]

So it is all about Robin thinking CC should sell to TG? So, having an idea that differs from the crappie party line justifies censorship from the series itself? If that is truly the motivation behind this, then there is no hope for this series, no hope at all.

Here are some ideas I have from time to time:

CCWS should just sell out to Don Panoz, and thus give the combined company more leverage to schedule better races, and probably the CC half would improve, since clearly the sports car guys know one hell of a lot more about attracting manufacturers, sponsors, teams, talented drivers, etc.

CCWS should sell out to Tony George, so I can at least see some sort of Indy 500 that has some significance, and maybe, just maybe, someday the merged series will morph back into something useful.

CCWS should never have existed, because if Tony had bought the assets of CART, instead of being four years into a hopeless five year plan, we could at least be four years closer to that eventual Indy Car that is worth watching, instead of watching the slow death of CC, then waiting another ten years for Indy Car to become watchable.

You see, any one of those thoughts deserve censorship, right? They would probably get me banned on CCF, right? Does it matter if I only have those thoughts from time to time when I am particularly down on the state of the series? Does it matter that Robin's comment about selling to TG was made in a live chat? Maybe we should just all ban ourselves from being fans unless we are willing to submit to the edicts of the party thought police 24/7.

Again ,there is no censorship, Robin can say what he wants and so can you btw, did you copy those from TF? :laugh:

[SurfaceUnits]

How is SPEED censoring Robin?

pulled his last chat transcript and hasn't been seen or heard from at speed since 8/2

[extramundane]

CCWS should just sell out to Don Panoz,

Have you seen the shape his series is in?

Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Corner5]

from what I said earlier in another thread, if this is proper justification then there's not a sports journalist in the world that would be allowed in their respective beat's clubhouse, they'd all be banned. but then again it all comes back to how most every other sports franchise and brand in the world is managed and how they all turn a profit...

I don't know if that's the whole story, I'm sure there is more.

[SurfaceUnits]

Have you seen the shape his series is in?

Two wrongs don't make a right.
and some are admired for calling for CC to sell out to TG

[extramundane]

and some are admired for calling for CC to sell out to TG

I don't know anyone who admires Miller for that comment. I do know that many of us (myself included) understand his frustration and understand why he'd almost rather one entity, any entity own the whole shooting match.

I don't agree with that assessment, but I understand it. Big difference.

[Joelski]

This is yet more of the same old up-and-down ********* with Miller and now Kirby being at one moment praised, and crucified the next for speaking the truth. So many political fans are willing to give pats ont he back for positive news, yet aren't objective enough to restrain themselves from forming a lynch posse when some bad news or an opposing opinion comes along. Sad, really....

[SurfaceUnits]

but, but Johnson was never firedYou are correct. Johnson was never fired. Miller let his personal animosity towards two people bleed over into his "professional Journalism." He was fed a line of crap and some of you are still feeding on the same shizzle.

[Opposite Lock]

I don't know anyone who admires Miller for that comment. I do know that many of us (myself included) understand his frustration and understand why he'd almost rather one entity, any entity own the whole shooting match.

I don't agree with that assessment, but I understand it. Big difference.

Well put as usual, 'mundane. :thumbup:

[Dr. Corkski]

1) Make toy cars
2) Leave incoherent messages on interweb forums
3) Brown-nose a fat weasel
4) Get the fat weasel to fire real journalists
5) ???
6) Profit

[formulaben]

Relax people,,,,,,,all is well in champcar,,,,,,,the only problem is these pesky heretics,,,,,

:laugh:

[formulaben]

It's not censorship if he can still attend the events and write what he wants to.
and he still can. Let me correct you.

While I agree it is not censorship in the true sense of the word, the revocation of the hard card is, at the very least, a discouragement of Miller's reporting. This cannot possibly be spun as in a positive manner.