View Full Version : WTF?? merge Talk Again??
TU Homer
08-19-07, 09:50 PM
Our best buddy RM is saying that Cotman and the freak are sitting down. I really hate the freak and his vision, but for f*(< sake, at least do something to put out a decent race.
I'ld go with a merge, but I can't see TG running a merged deal.
-TU
Sean Malone
08-19-07, 09:57 PM
It will never happen. End of story. NEXT!
,,,,,merge with wat?,,maybe Dr. Frankenstein can place a KK head on a TG body.
extramundane
08-19-07, 10:16 PM
On the other hand... (http://murphythebear.com/blog/2007/08/18/54-gt-on-the-way-wisconsin-a-winner-cats-grave/#more-68)
There might be a deal in the works (with the usual face-saving spin) that cedes control of CCWS and its sanctions to IMSA – in effect selling the place off. Some say it’s only to be a contract deal in which IMSA does the sanctioning duties (scheduling, at-track support activities), perhaps fixing a Champ Car area that’s been a mess at best. Going further, one Indianapolis source even said, “look for the 2008 Champ Car season to be suspended.” How much of that is speculation? Some, perhaps even a lot, but the rumblings are there.
Because, y'know, IMSA the Spineless is the one to fix what's broken. To quote Lewis Black, They've gone from "sh***y sh***y sh***y" to "stinky farty smelly!" :rolleyes:
TravelGal
08-19-07, 10:18 PM
>>>Going further, one Indianapolis source even said, “look for the 2008 Champ Car season to be suspended.” How much of that is speculation? Some, perhaps even a lot, but the rumblings are there.
:yuck: So does this mean I shouldn't check out the hotels when I'm in Surfer's next month? Decisions, decisions.
I would not be making any reservations that I can not cancel, but that has been true for years.
For what it is worth, I heard a little ALMS/CCWS merger rumble at RA, too. I took it to be wishful thinking, as the combined paddock looked more like CART in the good old days, and the overall atmosphere was fantastic. Personally, I think it would be a no brainer for the two major non-NASCAR/NASCAR controlled/NASCAR influenced series to set a course together. The weekend was WONDERFUL.
extramundane
08-19-07, 10:27 PM
>>>Going further, one Indianapolis source even said, “look for the 2008 Champ Car season to be suspended.” How much of that is speculation? Some, perhaps even a lot, but the rumblings are there.
:yuck: So does this mean I shouldn't check out the hotels when I'm in Surfer's next month? Decisions, decisions.
Based on said source's biases and track record, I wouldn't start canceling reservations just yet. This is the same source that seems to think a .7 vs .4 rating = trouncing.
YMMV.
matthole
08-19-07, 10:37 PM
one Indianapolis source even said, “look for the 2008 Champ Car season to be suspended.”
Jan 'indyfool' ******* is not a reliable 'source'. :rofl: :laugh:
greenie
08-19-07, 10:38 PM
So does this mean I shouldn't check out the hotels when I'm in Surfer's next month? Decisions, decisions.
I want your job. :cool:
DagoFast
08-19-07, 11:26 PM
I want your job. :cool:
You might wanna find out if she's one of the normal humans that pop out of the black Hotels.com Suburbans rather than the Travelocity gnome before you make that wish. :D
TravelGal
08-20-07, 01:31 AM
You might wanna find out if she's one of the normal humans that pop out of the black Hotels.com Suburbans rather than the Travelocity gnome before you make that wish. :D
:rofl: :rofl:
Does the Travelocity gnome always have a place to stay? I'm leaving in less than 48 hours and no hotel confirmation so far. Hey, I've got time I haven't even used yet. ;) Nerves of steel I tell ya, nerves of steel.
/hijack
It will never happen. End of story. NEXT!
TU Homer put the word "merge" in the title, but what Robin meant was that Cotman is trying to arrange for CC teams to run Indy. Which is highly possible.
TU Homer put the word "merge" in the title, but what Robin meant was that Cotman is trying to arrange for CC teams to run Indy. Which is highly possible.
That is what I said the other day, maybe 6/8 teams seeking a chassis and leasing Honda engines, a possibility, first step for a cure;)
Accipiter
08-20-07, 09:04 AM
Unless the talks are initiated by Tony George, they mean nothing. The only way merger will happen is if he thinks it's his idea.
Boatdesigner
08-20-07, 09:27 AM
I'd be curious to see how a DP01 would do on an oval. Any chance the speeds would be similar to the crapwagons? If so, maybe they could come up with a way to run the two cars against each other in a relatively equal format. This would save the teams from having to aquire a new car in order to help FTG save his race. I still wish they would "just say no!" to Indy.
Methanolandbrats
08-20-07, 09:55 AM
That is what I said the other day, maybe 6/8 teams seeking a chassis and leasing Honda engines, a possibility, first step for a cure;) Like genital herpes, there is no cure except death. Might as well just kill the whole damn thing.
I still wish they would "just say no!" to Indy.
:thumbup:
If they truly intend to run China next May this 'rumor' is just more BS from Miller.
eiregosod
08-20-07, 10:00 AM
,,,,,merge with wat?,,maybe Dr. Frankenstein can place a KK head on a TG body.
,,,,,,,,,,, never mentions merger details ,,,mustn't be totally in on the indside,, scoop,,
Like genital herpes, there is no cure except death.
True, true...thus is FTG's life and legacy.
Insomniac
08-20-07, 10:32 AM
I'd be curious to see how a DP01 would do on an oval. Any chance the speeds would be similar to the crapwagons? If so, maybe they could come up with a way to run the two cars against each other in a relatively equal format. This would save the teams from having to aquire a new car in order to help FTG save his race. I still wish they would "just say no!" to Indy.
I don't see that ever working. The IRL teams would cry foul if they were slower than CC teams and vice versa. Only difference being, there is no way it would end up with anything besides the DP01 being slower than AGR/Penske/Target.
robot9000
08-20-07, 10:35 AM
They need to run Indy because I understand so many sponsor pitches end when they find out we don't race Indy.
CART cherry picked Indy (which was a USAC sactioned race for ever. Well, after AAA anyway). Do the same. I gotta believe that getting a few cars can 't be that hard. Honda is always looking for that next ALMS team, so they might be open to working nicely with some of their old teams again.
It can work if they want it to. That way, a sponsor pitch for a team or the series can go like this:
CC:" THey are 200+MPH open wheel single seaters that race on a varity of street and natural terrain tracks..."
Sponsor: "Oh, you guys race Indy?"
CC:" Our team will be at Indy this year giving it our best shot! We will also be at Long Beach and Road America. Here, look at the Long Beach pictures from last year..."
The 900LBS gorilla has always been we aren't at indy. And if we we get enought guys to run off the Quattro's, its safer too :D
The problem is if Quattro or Fisher get bumped by Coyne or Go-Mindy, TG might start some of his shinnagians again. The risk (aside from $$ ) is that Dale or Picific Coast either won't make the show, or are waaaayyyyy back.
We are always preached to that, even if you are back of the pack, Indy pays enought $$ for almost anyone to turn a profit. I think thats probably more lore than fact, but I am sure there are a number of people that can tell us if that is true or not....But its gotta be somewhat easier for CC teams that already own everytihng but the car and motor. They don't have to buy/scrounge transporters, fueling rigs, people, etc.
TU Homer
08-20-07, 10:40 AM
TU Homer put the word "merge" in the title, but what Robin meant was that Cotman is trying to arrange for CC teams to run Indy. Which is highly possible.
Well, Robin is the one to use the word. But what he actually described is CCWS running Indy in the greater context of reconciliation. This WOULD BE the first step toward reconciling the sanctions, but only a step. What he didn't describe is step two, and that's where it gets real tough. THat's where the fundementalism needs to go out the window.
I could see a scenario where the series do merge, but only under a third party sanction; perhaps USAC?:D :D :D That would keep the Rosco's stiff.
Oh the irony...
-TU
TU Homer
08-20-07, 10:44 AM
RM was also tossing Ford around as another IRL sponsor.
-TU
There's NOTHING to substantiate this BS until the idiot inheritor comes on TV and stammers and studders through some incoherent PR babble that can directly be interpreted as the real deal.
Until then, this is the fodder of an imaginative journalist who needs to drum up work. It also calls the bluff of an organization who recently is on record for pulling a known journalists hardcard.
DagoFast
08-20-07, 11:02 AM
The Sagamoron might welcome CCWS teams for a hickyard one off, but only for a year or two. After that, they either make the switch full time to his leeg or he runs them off. The is NO way he is gonna let them ride the fi-hunnert "gravy train" to build sponsors for CCWS. He's a moron, but he ain't stupid.
grungex
08-20-07, 11:06 AM
This is the same source that seems to think a .7 vs .4 rating = trouncing.
FWIW, the .7 turned out to be a .4 when all was said and done...
TU Homer
08-20-07, 11:21 AM
There's NOTHING to substantiate this BS until the idiot inheritor comes on TV and stammers and studders through some incoherent PR babble that can directly be interpreted as the real deal.
Until then, this is the fodder of an imaginative journalist who needs to drum up work. It also calls the bluff of an organization who recently is on record for pulling a known journalists hardcard.
Hence the "WTF??" in my title.
robot9000
08-20-07, 11:26 AM
I thought Dispain brought it up in the larger context of "merger talk". I think anything that puts an IRL entity in the same place as a CC entity will be labeled Merger. I don't think anyone sees it as a real merger. I think they see it as a positve toward making OW stronger, depending on your flavor of coolaid. CC gets leverage to pitch to sponsors, TG doesn't have to expand Vison to 18 cars.
JLMannin
08-20-07, 11:27 AM
“look for the ____ Champ Car season to be suspended.”
So far, ____ has been predicted to be 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, and 2007. Now we can add 2008 to the list.
The merger talk is about six months early, as it usually ramps up at the end of March/beginning of April as a ploy to get the irl 500 in the mainstream media to remind the casual fan that they still race open-wheel cars on the oval.
TU Homer
08-20-07, 11:28 AM
The Sagamoron might welcome CCWS teams for a hickyard one off, but only for a year or two. After that, they either make the switch full time to his leeg or he runs them off. The is NO way he is gonna let them ride the fi-hunnert "gravy train" to build sponsors for CCWS. He's a moron, but he ain't stupid.
At this stage it is inevitable. either CCWS merges with IRL (best case scenario), or the teams move to IRL (as history has shown). I don't see too many teams running in CCWS and running Indy, unless Indy can foot the bill. It is obvious to me that most teams running indycars have to run indy too, in order to close bidness sponsorship deals. Think they'll buy a dallara for indy and a DP01 for the rest of the season? Does it make sense?
OTOH, we should all pray that TG actually begins to understand the history of his own track; that the racers/teams came from all over and didn't have to swear allegiance to any one sanction. But maybe that's too good to be true too.
-TU
TU Homer
08-20-07, 11:34 AM
TG doesn't have to expand Vison to 18 cars.
:rofl:
:shakehead
:cry:
Andrew Longman
08-20-07, 11:36 AM
RM wasn't talking about merger as much as doing something, anything to bring open wheel racing back from the brink.
In his mind that starts by doing things to restore the 500 to anything closer to what it was. More entries, more manufacturers, more sponsor interest, more general public interest.
Having CC teams there would be a good first start.
A certain helicopter crash would also be a good start.
There are lots of options but the status quo is not likely one of them in many opinion.
Everyone's good intentions will eventually be trumped by TG's demand for 51%. A case could be made for agreeing to that had the IRL become successful. But it hasn't. TG's track record is pitiful. If the only way the sport will be saved is to have him control it all, then there is no hope.
RM was also tossing Ford around as another IRL sponsor.Sounds like RM is working toward what he sees as a solution to his under-employment.
Everyone's good intentions will eventually be trumped by TG's demand for 51%. A case could be made for agreeing to that had the IRL become successful. But it hasn't. TG's track record is pitiful. If the only way the sport will be saved is to have him control it all, then there is no hope.
Exactly. Know future. Plow it all under and salt the earth as a warning to future egomaniac inheritors.
Sounds like RM is working toward what he sees as a solution to his under-employment.
:thumbup: :rofl:
TU Homer
08-20-07, 12:22 PM
:thumbup: :rofl:
maybe RM got pissed, cause ,,,,, was selected for "the job" and RM was going for it too.
-TU
stroker
08-20-07, 12:25 PM
I understand the sponsor pitch to running IMS, but as long as the ratings for the 500 are steadily declining, I don't understand why CCWS would want to do ANYTHING to prop it up.
Unless, of course, things are really, really desperate in CC-ville...
TU Homer
08-20-07, 12:32 PM
I understand the sponsor pitch to running IMS, but as long as the ratings for the 500 are steadily declining, I don't understand why CCWS would want to do ANYTHING to prop it up.
Unless, of course, things are really, really desperate in CC-ville...
Think about it. WHy would Cotman go make the pitch? Well, I suspect the owners are bawling to the ownership group about the difficulty in getting sponsors without Indy. That Conquest team manager was starting a team, and had a sponsor lined out. The sponsor pulled out just before they shot their sponsorship wad, due to the fact that the CTM guy didn't have Indy on schedule.
-TU
trauma1
08-20-07, 12:41 PM
Think about it. WHy would Cotman go make the pitch? Well, I suspect the owners are bawling to the ownership group about the difficulty in getting sponsors without Indy. That Conquest team manager was starting a team, and had a sponsor lined out. The sponsor pulled out just before they shot their sponsorship wad, due to the fact that the CTM guy didn't have Indy on schedule.
-TU
why would they when CC has fans at a demo more than earl se's in a season
http://www.champcarworld.net/photos/original/cNjaHn3U4628.jpg
trauma1
08-20-07, 12:43 PM
http://www.champcarworld.net/pages/gallery.php?id=97
http://www.bavariacityracing.nl/img_content/fotos/BCR_2007_stephen/thumbs_634x437px/bas1.jpg
Think about it. WHy would Cotman go make the pitch?
Guarantees that FTG don't pull one of his patented bait and switch moves e.g.- 25/8. If any of this is true why doesn't that a-hole say "look, let's get this thing over with" and emerge as a phocking leader commit (himself) to healing open wheel instead of this 'having dinner' crapola. I know the answer...he's an idiot. He's like Forest Gump in a hotel room with the hottest nekked girl in the world....
jonovision_man
08-20-07, 01:32 PM
Guarantees that FTG don't pull one of his patented bait and switch moves e.g.- 25/8.
Except now it'd be 19/14. :p
jono
shaggy_socal
08-20-07, 01:48 PM
He's like Forest Gump in a hotel room with the hottest nekked girl in the world....
"I may not be a smart man, Ginny. But I know what Indy means."
Racing Truth
08-20-07, 02:41 PM
Sounds like RM is working toward what he sees as a solution to his under-employment.
Well, could be. RM is no saint.
Then again, why do we assume its just BS? Given that the discussion was in the context of 2011, its possible.
Methanolandbrats
08-20-07, 03:14 PM
Well, could be. RM is no saint.
Then again, why do we assume its just BS? Given that the discussion was in the context of 2011, its possible. By 2011 there won't be anyone left who GAF about openwheel racing.
DagoFast
08-20-07, 03:26 PM
By 2011 there won't be anyone left who GAF about openwheel racing.
Ding. ;)
Racing Truth
08-20-07, 03:29 PM
By 2011 there won't be anyone left who GAF about openwheel racing.
There are now?:confused:
But, sadly, you're right.
jonovision_man
08-20-07, 03:31 PM
I'll still care.
Just watching Star Mazda from RA, quite a race! If that's all that is left by 2011 I'm good. Still have F1. :)
jono
Insomniac
08-20-07, 08:36 PM
If CC is going to show up at Indy, they better have the merger done. CC going to Indy does not help CC, it only helps the IRL.
The idea that seems to be missing from many conversations about this subject is that there simply isn't enough equity left in the American sport of rear engine open wheel racing to allow any part of it to fail. To ask why CC would prop up the 500 misses the entire point that this whole mess will sink or not, together.
Robin gets it. He knows that making the 500 significant again is the only way for this sport to survive in the U.S.
Al Czervik
08-20-07, 09:38 PM
The idea that seems to be missing from many conversations about this subject is that there simply isn't enough equity left in the American sport of rear engine open wheel racing to allow any part of it to fail. To ask why CC would prop up the 500 misses the entire point that this whole mess will sink or not, together.
Robin gets it. He knows that making the 500 significant again is the only way for this sport to survive in the U.S.
Not to completely derail the topic (but I will), the two biggest (of the too many to list) mistakes of the CART era, IMHO, were: 1) Not continuing with the US 500, and 2) not implementing the smaller (1.8 L ???) turbo engine.
The reasons why these things didn't happen are enough to fill several books, but the obstacles then are the same ones we're dealing with now.
Not to completely derail the topic (but I will), the two biggest (of the too many to list) mistakes of the CART era, IMHO, were: 1) Not continuing with the US 500, and 2) not implementing the smaller (1.8 L ???) turbo engine.
The reasons why these things didn't happen are enough to fill several books, but the obstacles then are the same ones we're dealing with now.
I could not agree with you more. Amen X 1,000,000.
Unfortunately that does not change the current situation.
TU Homer
08-20-07, 10:33 PM
Except now it'd be 19/14.
jono
Vision Man is :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Not to completely derail the topic (but I will), the two biggest (of the too many to list) mistakes of the CART era, IMHO, were: 1) Not continuing with the US 500, and 2) not implementing the smaller (1.8 L ???) turbo engine.
I don't know that continuing with the US 500 would have made much difference. It may have prevented a couple of the early "toe in the water" cross-overs but ultimately it would not have prevented Toyota's switch which is the single event that legitimized and probably saved the IRL.
One could argue that the 3.5 liter compatible engine scheme was a bigger mistake, given that it appeared to drive Honda off and it's Honda that keeps the IRL afloat today. But that assumes that Honda was being at all truthful about any of that to begin with.
Insomniac
08-21-07, 08:05 AM
The idea that seems to be missing from many conversations about this subject is that there simply isn't enough equity left in the American sport of rear engine open wheel racing to allow any part of it to fail. To ask why CC would prop up the 500 misses the entire point that this whole mess will sink or not, together.
Robin gets it. He knows that making the 500 significant again is the only way for this sport to survive in the U.S.
I think most of us see this. Those of us who want a merger were hoping for more of a true one so that, in essence, we'd have CART back (in terms of tracks, cars, drivers, etc.). I think many fear if TG "wins", he'll somehow mess that all up. I think that's a fair fear.
The way I see it, if CC does Indy without the merger done, it's over. Penske and TCGR were perfectly happy running ChampCar and cherry picking Indy. It completely fell apart when Toyota decided they wanted to be the winning engine at Indy now that the "stars" were running it. Then Honda took everyone else except GF and N/H.
You can't cherry pick Indy anymore. You're not going to go in there and compete for a win driving 1 IRL race a year in their equipment. Even if they can manage to lease the equipment so that it isn't insanely costly to run Indy as a one-off, is N/H/L going to be happy just doing one race with practically no chance of winning? Would CC be happy that none of their teams have a shot at winning? How does that make CC look that the IRL whips CC? The IRL will appear superior to CC despite having inferior equipment.
So Robin knows that CC can't afford to play this dance again and then pack up and leave and go back to what they did if they aren't going to get anywhere with a merger.
Insomniac
08-21-07, 08:16 AM
I don't know that continuing with the US 500 would have made much difference. It may have prevented a couple of the early "toe in the water" cross-overs but ultimately it would not have prevented Toyota's switch which is the single event that legitimized and probably saved the IRL.
One could argue that the 3.5 liter compatible engine scheme was a bigger mistake, given that it appeared to drive Honda off and it's Honda that keeps the IRL afloat today. But that assumes that Honda was being at all truthful about any of that to begin with.
It would've been interesting to see what the US 500 could do. It's hard for me to figure out. I didn't even know about the split but I do remember watching the US500 instead of the Indy 500 (were they run at the same time?). CART had the stars, and I'm sure if they were in the IRL, I would've done the opposite. You look at the ratings for the IRL and Indy draws multiple times what any other race gets. Who are all those viewers? Are they all fans, or does the "Indy 500" just compel them to watch? Could the US500 have taken those eyeballs? Who knows. Of course, that race most likely would've been all over if a tire still goes into the stands.
I think the precursor to that mistake was TCGR running Indy. I know we all loved the bitchslapping he gave the IRL, and the bigger one the following year. But those wins made Toyota's mouth water. It may've just been a matter of time before Honda followed.
jonovision_man
08-21-07, 09:25 AM
You can't cherry pick Indy anymore. You're not going to go in there and compete for a win driving 1 IRL race a year in their equipment. Even if they can manage to lease the equipment so that it isn't insanely costly to run Indy as a one-off, is N/H/L going to be happy just doing one race with practically no chance of winning? Would CC be happy that none of their teams have a shot at winning? How does that make CC look that the IRL whips CC? The IRL will appear superior to CC despite having inferior equipment.
That's a big problem... I believe it's also the reason they don't have an easy time getting to 33 anymore, nobody can really expect to show up and be competitive competing against the big dogs that are setting those cars up week in and week out.
I mean heck, nobody running full-time can beat Penske/Ganassi/AGR.
jono
robot9000
08-21-07, 09:48 AM
I don't think thats true. NH got a new car and is driving the hell out of it. I think there are a number of teams that could be competitive. The can certainly out engineer PDM, DnR, hell, everyone but Penske, Gannasi and AGR. Win? Maybe not. But it gets them in the game.
I think the handicap is the Euro drivers that have never done ovals, and the lack of an oval on our schedule.
But there are 32 losers every year at Indy. If sponsors want a CC team to show up, its not much different that times past - you do your best and you hope luck goes your way.
Heres the alternative.
Daddy Figge decides Jr. isn't the next Senna and decides to save $10M/year for that new villa. That 2 cars gone.
There are no drivers to park at Cyone for next year. Maybe he runs one with Sonny's. But thats at least 1 gone.
Unka Gerry sticks to his guns and runs only PT. Thats 1 gone.
Not likely, but you can see how easily we go from 17 (pffft - 17 :shakehead ) to 13 cars.
Now, add in the guys like Stoddard, who has no real skin in this game (team rental), Paul G, and his annual pay driver hunt, Bachalart nearly closed up shop this year. There really are a lot of teams in a bit of hurt for sponsorship.
So I'm not sure they can afford NOT to do it.
Thats it. CC went to them with a "save us" sort of proposal. The NEXT new car in the works is the mergermoblie and that's the IRL's project.:irked:
JLMannin
08-21-07, 11:29 AM
I think the handicap is the Euro drivers that have never done ovals, and the lack of an oval on our schedule.
Nigel Mansell, Emerson Fittipaldi
Remember how well they did on Ovals when they were CART "Rookies"?
Back on topic: I'm a stubborn man, but I would rather see open wheel racing die than to have it run by TG. It may be a case of cutting off my nose to spite my face, but it is how I feel. To win me back, a merged series must limit TG's role to that of a track owner only.
Name one other racing facility where the track owner gets to dictate the technical specifications of the series that run on it.
Thats it. CC went to them with a "save us" sort of proposal. The NEXT new car in the works is the mergermoblie and that's the IRL's project.:irked:
Remember that these are the same folks who wrote the specifications for the the 2003 Dallarajart and Slownoz. TG is probably more interested injoining KK in the Rocket Racing League franchise than a decent chassis specification and engine formula equivalants for the 500.
http://www.rocketracingleague.com/
Insomniac
08-21-07, 12:21 PM
I don't think thats true. NH got a new car and is driving the hell out of it. I think there are a number of teams that could be competitive. The can certainly out engineer PDM, DnR, hell, everyone but Penske, Gannasi and AGR. Win? Maybe not. But it gets them in the game.
I think the handicap is the Euro drivers that have never done ovals, and the lack of an oval on our schedule.
But there are 32 losers every year at Indy. If sponsors want a CC team to show up, its not much different that times past - you do your best and you hope luck goes your way.
Heres the alternative.
Daddy Figge decides Jr. isn't the next Senna and decides to save $10M/year for that new villa. That 2 cars gone.
There are no drivers to park at Cyone for next year. Maybe he runs one with Sonny's. But thats at least 1 gone.
Unka Gerry sticks to his guns and runs only PT. Thats 1 gone.
Not likely, but you can see how easily we go from 17 (pffft - 17 :shakehead ) to 13 cars.
Now, add in the guys like Stoddard, who has no real skin in this game (team rental), Paul G, and his annual pay driver hunt, Bachalart nearly closed up shop this year. There really are a lot of teams in a bit of hurt for sponsorship.
So I'm not sure they can afford NOT to do it.
While N/H/L does have excellent engineering, they aren't going to close the gap between them and AGR/TCGR/Penske during the month of May. It's just not going to happen. It was easier for TCGR/Penske/TKG to do it to the IRL teams because they were all a joke. It's no longer the case.
There may be no other solution, my main point is, if the merger isn't a done deal before (and if) they run Indy, it's over for CC. They might as well just sell to TG now because there won't be any going back. CC is going to look bad at Indy and the teams that don't want to are going to start running IRL races too. Who is going to set up shop in both series?
I think many fear if TG "wins", he'll somehow mess that all up. I think that's a fair fear.
Bank on it. He's an idiot.
The IRL has been under capitalized from go. To get even close to "bigtime" again would cost something like 100 million a year for ten years. Gate, TV and sponsors don't even come close-- they need deep pockets. No one with that kind of coin is going to throw endless money at the might of NASCAR.
TG will continue to fiddle, get overextended and be forced to sell for less than he could get today.
Name one other racing facility where the track owner gets to dictate the technical specifications of the series that run on it.
Le Mans?
Le Mans?
Name me one other series or form of auto racing that is dwarfed into obscurity by its premeire event. Hint, see above.
matthole
08-21-07, 07:07 PM
... I would rather see open wheel racing die than to have it run by TG.
Concur.
devilmaster
08-21-07, 07:11 PM
but I would rather see open wheel racing die than to have it run by TG.
6 of one, half dozen of the other, isn't it? ;)
...I would rather see open wheel racing die than to have it run by TG.
Me too. The really sad part? This is exactly what's happening right now.
I would rather see open wheel racing die than to have it run by TG.
But would you deny it to others who may enjoy it? If you want it to "die" for you, all you have to do is walk away.
matthole
08-21-07, 10:35 PM
But would you deny it to others who may enjoy it?
:shakehead
If anyone is stupid enough to 'enjoy' anything FTG-related, I have zero sympathy for them.
jonovision_man
08-21-07, 10:45 PM
:shakehead
If anyone is stupid enough to 'enjoy' anything FTG-related, I have zero sympathy for them.
I'm "stupid enough" :p Well not really this season, it's been a bit of a stinker, but I've popped in now and then. Watched more last year though, and if it turns good again I'll be watching again.
jono
DagoFast
08-22-07, 01:04 AM
I'm "stupid enough" :p Well not really this season, it's been a bit of a stinker, but I've popped in now and then. Watched more last year though, and if it turns good again I'll be watching again.
jono
Perhaps you could enlighten us; when was it ever good? :shakehead
Insomniac
08-22-07, 08:07 AM
:shakehead
If anyone is stupid enough to 'enjoy' anything FTG-related, I have zero sympathy for them.
I'm sick of all the stupid politics. I'll let what is on the track decide if it's dead to me. That is what made me "choose" ChampCar (it wasn't really an either/or choice) in the first place.
jonovision_man
08-22-07, 10:19 AM
Perhaps you could enlighten us; when was it ever good? :shakehead
It's not everybody's thing, I get that.
But I was at Indy last year and there is just something very special about a close finish like that in a race as important as the Indy 500. It's a moment I won't ever forget, it was fantastic, the ripple of excitement that went through the crowd as they flew through T4 and suddenly Sam was beside Marco... then the buzz of the crowd as we all tried to figure out who had just won the race, followed by the shock that Sam had pulled it off... Wow.
If that's not your thing, that's cool. I'm not going to try to convince anyone to like something they don't, that would be silly. But likewise I don't expect people to try to convince me not to like something I do. :)
jono
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