View Full Version : The last glimpse.....
Tonight, I accidently channel surfed into SUPERSPEEDWAY on HDTV.......it was mesmerizing. The beauty and greatness of it all was awesome....
AND, then it hit me: I felt like I was viewing the last remnants of a great extinct civilization. It was incredibly angering and sad to see what was before and realize now what no longer exists.
So, just thought I'd say a great big F U to all the *******s who really screwed it all up.....there's too many self-centered egotistical rich bastards on both side of the fence to blame but to hell with all of you. Thanks for nothing.:flame:
Jag_Warrior
08-20-07, 09:12 PM
^^ What he said ^^
Kiwifan
08-20-07, 09:20 PM
Whenever I fiddle with the settings on my TV/DVD I always use the Superspeedway DVD. After I've taken the pure enjoyment from the DVD anger takes over and I just want to take "someone" out the back of the barn, and shoot them. :flame:
How the people who helped kill that beauty can look themselves in the mirror I will never know. :shakehead
It's really, really sad... :cry:
Rusty.
Oh that's just the surface. Think of all the history lost. Greg Moore and Alex Zanardi at Indy?
Sean Malone
08-20-07, 09:22 PM
Oh that's just the surface. Think of all the history lost. Greg Moore and Alex Zanardi at Indy?
:thumbup:
I remember seeing it in IMAX in Baltimore. Included a display on race cars at the Science Center. Got to see it on the big screen to really appreciate it. :thumbup:
meadors
08-20-07, 09:46 PM
Saw it at the OMSI Imax in Portland when it first came out. It was way too short, but the BIG IMAX screen had so much going on I wish I could have watched it several times.
I've never had the inkling to watch it on a lil ol TV, but I may have to. Just to remember.
Not sure I need to cry though. :( To think, I used to go see world class racing, :cry: .
You got it, Chief.
This is the world weary feeling I get when I watch it now: It was more or less owned by a greedy bastard, but some other greedy bastards wanted their piece, then the family of the original greedy bastard wanted their piece back, then those other greedy bastards sold it out, now some new greedy bastards are trying to "save" what is left from the greedy bastard who wants it all...
So please forgive me if I decline to take sides any more. If unevolved souls who have yet to learn what beauty is can not watch that movie and put it back together, then they deserve the demise they have coming.
See you at Road America... :(
ferrarigod
08-21-07, 12:46 AM
Oh that's just the surface. Think of all the history lost. Greg Moore and Alex Zanardi at Indy?
i think about that every time i log on to a forum. sad.
now some new greedy bastards are trying to "save" what is left from the greedy bastard who wants it all...
I'm curious why you would describe KK and GF as greedy bastards?
Beyond that, I agree with the sense of loss expressed by everyone else. I've reached the conclusion the sport will never achieve what it once had.
I however see the blame going one place only. FTG
who will remember Mark Billman?
I'm curious why you would describe KK and GF as greedy bastards?
Beyond that, I agree with the sense of loss expressed by everyone else. I've reached the conclusion the sport will never achieve what it once had.
I however see the blame going one place only. FTG
It's nothing personal. But if you think TG is Satan and these guys are saints, you may need to adjust your koolaid drip. Remember when Roger, Chip and Bobby were the good guys?
jonovision_man
08-21-07, 09:31 AM
It's nothing personal. But if you think TG is Satan and these guys are saints, you may need to adjust your koolaid drip. Remember when Roger, Chip and Bobby were the good guys?
I don't think KK is greedy, if making piles of money were his thing he wouldn't have gotten involved. He's lost a lot of dosh, he's practically running a charity here. :)
To see the greed on the ChampCar side I believe you have to go back to CART... that's when all the greedy pigs were at the trough screwing up the sport. TG and CART got into a stupid game of chicken and nobody swerved, now today we have what we have.
CART thought the series was bigger than Indy. TG thought Indy was bigger than the series. The series and Indy both paid the price.
jono
It's nothing personal. But if you think TG is Satan and these guys are saints, you may need to adjust your koolaid drip. Remember when Roger, Chip and Bobby were the good guys?
Spare me the koolaid crap. :flame:
I asked a simple question. KK and GF have spent millions on the series. How is that being a 'greedy bastard'?
Sorry about the koolaid comment. I did not mean to offend you.
My point is that these guys are going to do what they are going to do, and they may be engaged in charity at the moment, but that is not their natural habitat, and this year they have shown every sign that they are looking to escape that role. To look up to them as saviors or saints sets you up for (another) big disappointment.
To look up to them as saviors or saints sets you up for (another) big disappointment.
My expectations these days are pretty low so there isn't much chance of being disappointed.;)
CART thought the series was bigger than Indy.
After the split, yes. Before the split, CART was building equity for everyone involved in the series, and that included the "dragged screaming and kicking" Indianapolis 500.
TG thought Indy was bigger than the series. Inevitably, the series and Indy both paid the price because of TG's actions. What eventually happened to either side is meaningless except for the fact THEY killed the sport.
who will remember Mark Billman?
Since my copy of Terry Reed's Indy -- Race and Ritual is in a storage unit, let me post a WAG based on increasingly faulty memory.
I think he is one of the KIA in the Junk Formula years that got launched over the fence by that bit of extra banking on the outside.*
*At risk of being morbid (okay, you know IDGAF), this is another example of how the IRL, under Go-, err, Tony George, is restoring the great tradition of flying crapwagons at Indy.
jonovision_man
08-21-07, 12:52 PM
After the split, yes. Before the split, CART was building equity for everyone involved in the series, and that included the "dragged screaming and kicking" Indianapolis 500.
TG thought Indy was bigger than the series. Inevitably, the series and Indy both paid the price because of TG's actions. What eventually happened to either side is meaningless except for the fact THEY killed the sport.
Agreed.
I guess the bottom line is that CART thought that they could survive and thrive without the Indy 500. The real cars, the real stars, the real 500, right? They thought they could just carry on, call their race the 500, and the series would be the draw rather than the venue.
They were wrong, Indy is Indy, and the Indy 500 is bigger than whatever series is running it. Look no further than the dismal IRL ratings compared to the still reasonably solid Indy 500 ratings, it's about the Indy 500, not the series.
I hold CART responsible for not taking TG seriously, and not understanding just how bad things would get without Indy.
I hold TG responsible for even dreaming up the split, let alone doing it. :irked:
jono
I guess the bottom line is that CART thought that they could survive and thrive without the Indy 500. The real cars, the real stars, the real 500, right? They thought they could just carry on, call their race the 500, and the series would be the draw rather than the venue.
They were wrong, Indy is Indy, and the Indy 500 is bigger than whatever series is running it. Look no further than the dismal IRL ratings compared to the still reasonably solid Indy 500 ratings, it's about the Indy 500, not the series.
But CART was successful immediately after the split. We don't know if they could have continued that success without Indy because they didn't try. They gave up on the alternate race. They allowed teams to run at Indy. They made business decisions (1.8 Turbo) with Indy in mind.
We don't know what might have happened because they gave up. :mad:
jonovision_man
08-21-07, 03:07 PM
But CART was successful immediately after the split. We don't know if they could have continued that success without Indy because they didn't try. They gave up on the alternate race. They allowed teams to run at Indy. They made business decisions (1.8 Turbo) with Indy in mind.
We don't know what might have happened because they gave up. :mad:
IMO the US 500 was never going to take the place of Indy. They dumped it long before anyone went back to Indy, I think there were like 4 years in between (from '96 to '99 or 2000, whenever Ganassi went back).
jono
Hesketh
08-21-07, 06:15 PM
Agreed.
I hold CART responsible for not taking TG seriously, and not understanding just how bad things would get without Indy.
I hold TG responsible for even dreaming up the split, let alone doing it. :irked:
jono
A voice of reason. I'm no IRLista. I was at that US 500 (and beyond). But it was not TG's fault alone for the split. The CART board could have made a simple concession to give Tony a vote and this whole thing would probably not have happened. However, they wanted total control then just as much as TG does now. They screwed up --- first.
greenie
08-22-07, 01:40 AM
They screwed up --- first.
Nice try at revisionist history. Not like I was there front and center, or I doubt highly you, but what was the imaginary threat that TG faced? Hint - that wasn't the issue, so it's a red herring.
It was a power play to control open wheel, disguised by lies that were sniffed out by everyone except the sucker brigade. Giving mumbling Tony a vote would have just empowered his claim to control, nothing more IMO.
I agree w/the posters above that believe abandoning the US 500 was a colossal FU - as was the teams selling chassis to the earl teams that kept that crapola series running. It will be just as bad strategically if the CC teams support the 500 now, but the difference is the nobody cares anymore.
Some alliance w/ALMS would be the best thing for CC IMO. ASAFP.
Going back to Indy, and bailing out TG would be surrender.
Tony had a vote. The problem occured when he made a pitch to buy all the franchises.
Tony had a vote. The problem occured when he made a pitch to buy all the franchises.
Buy all the franchises? And do what with them? Lease them back to the team owners? What a weird offer.
Jesus, we have been on message boards long enough that you have to educate the guys who you thought knew what was going on twelve years ago?
"Buy all the franchises? And do what with them? Lease them back to the team owners? What a weird offer. "
No, he proposed this so he could hang out on message boards for years on end and act all cool and stuff. Kind of like an underemployed college professor:gomer:
Jesus, we have been on message boards long enough that you have to educate the guys who you thought knew what was going on twelve years ago?
"Buy all the franchises? And do what with them? Lease them back to the team owners? What a weird offer. "
No, he proposed this so he could hang out on message boards for years on end and act all cool and stuff. Kind of like an underemployed college professor:gomer:
:rofl:
formulaben
08-22-07, 12:48 PM
Tony had a vote. The problem occured when he made a pitch to buy all the franchises.
I thought it was a seat on the board, but a non-voting seat. Maybe they gave him voting rights to placate him?
I thought it was a seat on the board, but a non-voting seat. Maybe they gave him voting rights to placate him?
He was offered a voting seat but turned it down in favor of a non-voting seat. He didn't want anyone to be able to say he had a vote if he couldn't just run the whole thing.
oddlycalm
08-22-07, 04:57 PM
TG killing professional formula car racing in North America will inevitably be a minor footnote to motorsport history. All that will be remembered is that NASCAR ascended and single seaters faded away.
So much time has passed now that even those closely connected to the sport have trouble remembering what happened and the average person never knew or cared to begin with. To folks in their 20's racing simply means NASCAR.
What really brought this home to me was coming across some pictures recently that I took in 1994 when I was at Indy with one of our reps and some customers. It was a good time and it made me want to talk to the rep who is now retired. He was well aware of the split when it happened as we stopped hosting customers at the i500, but when I spoke with him recently he barely remembers a thing about it. Mostly he remembers that he started giving out ball tickets instead of race tickets in 1996.... :(
oc
formulaben
08-22-07, 04:59 PM
Thanks for fixing the sport, Tony. :flame:
Hard Driver
08-22-07, 06:12 PM
Many screw ups, but the first was FTG screwing over the series by taking his ball and going home.
However, CART did prove him right in many ways afterwards, remember spacergate... Let's drive away our manufacturer support.
Remember the non-engine spec when CART did not release a new engine spec when they promised. Let's drive away more manufacturers.
The fact of the matter, is that in racing, manufacturer support is the bread and the butter. NASCAR, manufacturer support. F1, manufacturer support, and even the IRL has Honda.
Remember the comments just made about the ALMS timing stands at Elkart Lake, wow, those timing stands are so much better than the Champcar ones... manufacturer support from Audi, Porshe, Chevy, etc.
With the loss of Ford this year, I am afraid that Champcar may be in big trouble. No offense to the powers that are running the series and supporting it with their own money. But when Ford says they were pushed off the island, you are idiots. Say, why yes, if you want to run a super Mustang series as a support race, we would love it.
Andrew Longman
08-22-07, 06:49 PM
However, CART did prove him right in many ways afterwards, remember spacergate... Let's drive away our manufacturer support.
Not sure I can agree. Spacergate was Honda getting caught cheating. And IIRC Toyota ratted them out. Not a lot the series can do to gloss that over but I wasn't in the room at the time either. Maybe there was someway it could have been handled differently.
I've seen no evidence that CART ever made a credible threat to IMS. I see lots of evidence that they had proven successful ideas for advancing the sport and bringing more, not less mfr and sponsor support to the series.
The problem of manufacturers running roughshod over the series (and all the crap about 1.8 v 3.5L ) only happened after Indy was lost and the series was looking and failing to find ways to keep the series bigger than the mfrs supporting it.
In the end, you can't find any conclusion beyond TG thinking in very provincial terms about how to keep him particular piece of real estate top of a small heap rather than openingly understanding and accepting that there are lots of interests in the sport and the possibility are far greater than any one interest can create on their own.
Andrew Longman
08-22-07, 06:51 PM
TG killing professional formula car racing in North America will inevitably be a minor footnote to motorsport history. All that will be remembered is that NASCAR ascended and single seaters faded away.
Sadly you are almost certainly correct. Somewhere there are former fans of boxing and horse racing crying in their beer about how great it was in the 50s.
Good thing the internet wasn't around then.
However, CART did prove him right in many ways afterwards, remember spacergate..
"Spacergate" was brought about by Roger S. Penske.
It was well documented. You would have to research an article by a Steven N. Levinson which appeared in an issue of "RaceFax OnLine" by Forrest K. Bond.
Kiwifan
08-23-07, 03:18 AM
Ziggy sometimes I think you are from another planet. :) I just like the cars because of their bright shiny colors. :D
Seriously, if someone wrote this whole sad saga as a novel it wouldn't get published because no-one would believe it could happen. Too far fetched. How f'n sad. :cry:
Rusty.
opinionated ow
08-23-07, 05:24 AM
doee anybody know where the HD video computer file that was floated around at one stage is?
formulaben
08-23-07, 12:43 PM
doee anybody know where the HD video computer file that was floated around at one stage is?
These? (Superspeedway 2nd row):
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/musicandvideo/hdvideo/contentshowcase.aspx)
It's nothing personal. But if you think TG is Satan and these guys are saints, you may need to adjust your koolaid drip. Remember when Roger, Chip and Bobby were the good guys?
To tell you the truth, I always thought Roger, Chip and Bobby were aholes.
To tell you the truth, I always thought Roger, Chip and Bobby were aholes.
You'll be surprized to know they still are.
Since my copy of Terry Reed's Indy -- Race and Ritual is in a storage unit, let me post a WAG based on increasingly faulty memory.
I think he is one of the KIA in the Junk Formula years that got launched over the fence by that bit of extra banking on the outside.*
*At risk of being morbid (okay, you know IDGAF), this is another example of how the IRL, under Go-, err, Tony George, is restoring the great tradition of flying crapwagons at Indy.
First mention I've seen of Indy--Race and Ritual. My company, Presidio Press (no longer around) published that book in 1979 (my only trip to the 500).:(
eiregosod
08-23-07, 05:37 PM
TG killing professional formula car racing in North America will inevitably be a minor footnote to motorsport history. All that will be remembered is that NASCAR ascended and single seaters faded away.
So much time has passed now that even those closely connected to the sport have trouble remembering what happened and the average person never knew or cared to begin with. To folks in their 20's racing simply means NASCAR.
What really brought this home to me was coming across some pictures recently that I took in 1994 when I was at Indy with one of our reps and some customers. It was a good time and it made me want to talk to the rep who is now retired. He was well aware of the split when it happened as we stopped hosting customers at the i500, but when I spoke with him recently he barely remembers a thing about it. Mostly he remembers that he started giving out ball tickets instead of race tickets in 1996.... :(
oc
Guess where the single seater guys are heading? NASCAR.
I'm not even sure if ESPN realised it but when they covered the Brickyard 400 & Watkins Glen. All the drivers they featured in the pre-race show were Hoosiers or former open-wheel stars.
At the Glen, they did features on Montoya, Carpentier, Robby Gordon, not to mention jeff Gordon & Stewart.
no wonder the south easteners complain about more open wheelers coming to NASCAr.
FTG was naive to think that putting the minor leagues into running the 500 was a smart move. Then the kool-aid was passed around, folks had to endure endless stories by two-bit drivers about how they only ever wanted to race at Indy :tony:
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