Analysis of Nadeau crash

[rabbit]

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) — Jerry Nadeau's accident at Richmond International Raceway was the most violent wreck NASCAR has seen since installing black box-style data recorders in cars two years ago.
The crash far surpassed the 80 times the force of gravity reading NASCAR got after Kyle Petty's wreck at Bristol Motor Speedway in March, which was the hardest hit the sanctioning body had previously seen.
As Nadeau remains hospitalized with serious head, rib and lung injuries, NASCAR's safety debate has reopened after a relatively quiet period following vast improvements since the 2001 death of Dale Earnhardt.

[SNIP]

Gary Nelson, NASCAR's competition director, said the angle in which Nadeau hit the wall contributed to the violence.
``It was a very flat hit on the driver side, which is pretty unusual,'' Nelson said. ``It was an almost perfectly flat hit, so there was a tremendous energy spike because he didn't have a bumper or something else hit first.
``This one had no initial impact that would have softened the hit.''
There are a few solutions that could help, including installing the Steel and Foam Energy Reduction (SAFER) barrier at Richmond.
So far the soft wall is only used at Indianapolis Motor Speedway and on the inside wall at Talladega Superspeedway.
But NASCAR has found that the shorter tracks are just as dangerous and need the wall. Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin were both killed in wrecks at New Hampshire International Speedway, and Kyle Petty had the hard hit at Bristol.

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Although cockpit improvements have been a priority, there's little room left to add any energy absorption material in the driver's door. Through adjustments in the transmission, it's possible to eventually shift the driver over to the center of the car.
``The cockpit has been the issue the last couple of years and we have come leaps and bounds from where we were,'' said Mike Ford, crew chief for Bill Elliott. ``Not to say there isn't more work to be done there — there are already several issues that have come about.
``Seats have improved, leg support has been improved, but nothing has been done to the chassis.''
NASCAR is testing crushable metals, such as aluminum foam, which could help absorb some of the shock of a crash. But until there's more room in the cockpit, Burton doesn't think much more can be squeezed inside.

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Like Ziggy said, move the driver to the middle.

[pchall]

Wow.

After this report NASCAR will discover all the safety data from the last decade.

Too little. Too late... for some nice guys...

[devilmaster]

A couple comments:

-IIRC nascar does not share accident data with the 3 formula series. At least they didn't before Dale's accident. Even though they are different cars, the collection of data is important in any respect.

-Hopefully, moving the driver to the centre of the car won't be a knee-jerk reaction by NASCAR without some proper studies. By moving the driver to the centre, you make egress harder in case of an emergency. The ideal situation is making a nascar more like a formula car, while keeping a huge body around it... Crushable sidepods, front and rear clips which would ensure the driver remains relatively safe, while sitting in the middle. But the problem of egress remains.

-IMHO, to truly improve safety, NASCAR must mandate the chassis alot better. Teams still build chassis to survive impacts so that they can go back on the track and 'gain points'. The enviroment of over 50 years of NASCAR has to change first.

Until NASCAR itself changes, the cars will never be as safe as they could be.

Steve

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by rabbit
Like Ziggy said, move the driver to the middle.

Which moves the driver closer to the point of impact in 95% of the stock car crashes that happen. Excellent idea.:rolleyes: It also puts the driver directly behind the engine, which tends to get driven back in frontal impacts (again, common). Right now, that engine goes to the driver's right. After your idea, it goes into the driver's lap.

I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy on this board who has raced and crashed a stock car, so I'd think my opinion might mean something...

[rabbit]

Originally posted by Racewriter
Which moves the driver closer to the point of impact in 95% of the stock car crashes that happen. Excellent idea.:rolleyes: It also puts the driver directly behind the engine, which tends to get driven back in frontal impacts (again, common). Right now, that engine goes to the driver's right. After your idea, it goes into the driver's lap.

I'm pretty sure I'm the only guy on this board who has raced and crashed a stock car, so I'd think my opinion might mean something... OK, so offer a suggestion.

[Ziggy]

OK, let me clarify my position on the drivers position. I didnt say that the driver had to straddle the tranny tunnel. How about moving him over far enough so that his head and body is safer, like maybe 12 to 16 inches? On the "how you gonna get them out" question. How about a roof hatch Einstein?

Onto the next comment. When was the last time you saw a NASCAR engine inside the drivers compartment? Even so, if they can design an engine to intrude into, or under the tranny tunnel, they can direct them towards the right side. Current NASCAR's are tanks. I have never seen an engine driven inside a NASCAR sled. Never..... and if you did, It was no doubt a very unpleasant experience for the occupant. These are tube framed racing cars, not go to store sedans made in Detroit.

Ziggy

[JLMannin]

Too bad NASCAR crapped all over the "t-rex" car that Hendrick rolled out several years ago that, among other things, featured a more central driver position.

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by rabbit
OK, so offer a suggestion.

No problem. Soft walls, which are due to be installed at RIR in about six weeks. The direct flat driver's side hit is a rarity - rare enough that the best way to attack that problem is to soften the walls - which will benefit in ANY crash. The left-turns only/left side driver layout didn't just happen by accident, guys. For many years, the most vulnerable a driver could get in an accident was a direct driver's side hit. That problem has been addressed by strengthening the driver's door.

Again, I've driven stockers, and I've tested ARCA cars. The available space to move the driver to the right would only be 2-3 inches without incurring safety problems with the driveshaft tunnel - and again, every inch you move the driver to the right is an inch closer to the far-more-common right side/right front hit. That said, you could move the driver to the right about two inches. Then, you move the door bars to the right two inches, giving you a crush space between the door skin and the door bars ranging from 3 to 5 inches. That might be enough to install some impact absorption material, which might reduce G-loading in a crash like Nadeau's. The key would be whether you could do it without creating safety problems elsewhere.

But the best solution is still to address the race tracks and the concrete walls.

[pchall]

Originally posted by JLMannin
Too bad NASCAR crapped all over the "t-rex" car that Hendrick rolled out several years ago that, among other things, featured a more central driver position.

I thought the bigger probelem with "T-Rex"
was underbody tweeks that made it effectively a tunnel car?

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by pchall
I thought the bigger probelem with "T-Rex"
was underbody tweeks that made it effectively a tunnel car?

Yep. It was a cheater car from the get-go, and that's why Hendrick didn't debut it at a point race.

[DaveL]

Originally posted by Racewriter
Yep. It was a cheater car from the get-go, and that's why Hendrick didn't debut it at a point race.

At least it had a nice paint job...

[Racewriter]

Originally posted by DaveL
At least it had a nice paint job...

Gorgeous car. Although my favorite DuPont car has been the 200th anniversary car that Jeff ran at the 2002 Daytona 500. Bought my wife (one of the world's biggest Gordon fans) the diecast as soon as I saw it.:D

[Lizzerd]

Since we're drifting off topic...

Gordon ran a car in The Winston (night race) with that paint that looks like different colors depending on which angle you look at it and how the light hits it. It was gold/green/red... whatever.

[Chief]

Quite a facinating discussion. I don't think there's anything NASCAR can or will do. The roll cage on the driver's side is heavily re-inforced tubes designed to prevent crash penetration into the driver compartment. I'd venture to guess it has the greatest integrity of the entire roll cage structure. Nadeau discovered the down side to this safety feature.

Without change to incorporate soft walls and crumple zones on the sides of these cars this will (unfortunately) happen again.

[Hurling Frootmig]

Well they could mandate a smaller engine package which would increase the amount of crush zones they could build into the cars.

They could go with a front wheel drive design which means they could place the driver anywhere in the cockpit and not worry about the tranny between the legs - this will never happen.

The should mandate escape hatches.

[cart7]

Need I say... Nascar goes to Rear engine cars!!! :eek: :laugh:

[Chief]

How about the long rumored "IRL Fendered" series, strapping a NASCAR template body like a Funny Car on top of the IRL sled. Crumple tested too...