new car Protection

[G.]

I bought a new ride this wkend. the cheaper one (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0707_hyundai_veracruz_lexus_rx350)

Of course they wanted to sell me extended warranty, rustproofing, etc.

The one thing that actually DID capture my attention was the paint protection. They mumbled something about new EPA paint rules and acid rain, bird crap, etc.

Anyone know what the new paint rules are? The car doesn't seem to be clearcoated, but I'm no expert.

Anyone ever get TheProtector link that doesn't really tell you anything (http://ecpinc.net/ecpframe.htm) and have been impressed with it?

Almost $600 for paint, leather, rust and undercoating/soundproofing. The paint gets Dupont PTFE coating.

Thanks.

[SteveH]

How long do you plan to own this car?

[Methanolandbrats]

Hyundai mechanicals won't last long enough for you to worry about paint or rust :gomer:

[Stu]

Hyundai mechanicals won't last long enough for you to worry about paint or rust :gomer:

so you're saying he has nothing to worry about since the paint should last a good 200,000 miles?

[Methanolandbrats]

so you're saying he has nothing to worry about since the paint should last a good 200,000 miles? Easily :D

[G.]

I've been trying for months for someone to talk me out of a Hyundai. They seem to have figgered out the whole quality thing.

I'll keep it for 7-10 years, Steve, assuming I'm not horribly mistaken about the ^^^above.:)

[Winston Wolfe]

G. - you absolutely do not NEED to purchase any aftermarket paint sealant, fabric protectants, etc.... the F&I personnel at the dealership are generally good people, but after you have gone through the sales process, and decide on a price for the car, you are then sent to another person who is going to "help" you finance this great deal you just negotiated. Your guard is down and you just want to get into your new car and drive away, enjoying that new car smell, right ?
Well, there are some products they will offer you.... most often in a "package" that group the "most popular" items together, called "menu selling"..... after years of scientific research and consumer clinics, it has been decided that humans think the "cheap one" will be on the left, and the "most expensive one" will be on the right, so if you are going to buy anything, you should pick one of the middle "packages"....right ? Well the pricing on the two in the middle may seem right, but they carry a HUGE profit for the dealership, and usually exceed any of the "savings" you think you just negotiated away from the dealership on the purchase of that new car....
Most paint warranties these days are part of the 3\36k basic warranty, but have a corrosion \ rust through coverage of up to 10yr\100K. Your powertrain warranty for Hyundai is great, too, but is only valid for the original owner (something they DONT advertise)... so, unless you have seen cars in your neighborhood with paint probs, or have just traded in a car with a paint prob by the same manufacturer, then generally, these products are a waste of money (they are applied in the service department from a large bucket or something like that, and not applied very "scientifically", if you know what I mean...) and a HUGE profit center for the dealership. Also, you have to read the fine print, which typically say that you must return to the dealership once a year for an inspection, as well as a re-application of this magical material that is necessary, in order to keep your warranty valid. Typically, many forget to go back, or are not reminded of said fact, and when they do show up 4-5 years later with a claim, they are calmly told that their warranty is valid since they didnt reapply\get inspected for 4-5 years....
Long story short, its pretty much a scam, doesnt really help you, cuz all paint is pretty good these days, and you likely will never need it, or use it
just my two cents....

[nrc]

I'm embarrassed to say that we went for this once. I'm pretty sure it was the same thing without the rust-proofing. The long warranty against damage to the paint/finish sounded attractive since we planned to keep the car a long time (this was the Contour SVT). Manufacturer warranties generally don't cover damage from evironmental causes like bird crap, bug splats, etc and the Miata had seemed pretty prone to that.

Having had "the treatment" and used the products they provide I don't think they're any better at preventing damage than your typical retail protectants. In fact, the six month treatment swirled the paint worse than anything I'd normally use on my car.

Most cars are protected well enough from the factory that a reasonable level of care will prevent the kind of damage that's covered by this warranty. They're counting on the fact that by the time that kind of damage occurs you'll either not bother to make a claim or you won't get through whatever hoops they make you jump through.

As for the EPA part, it looks like the EPA is going to start regulating auto body repair shops, requiring certification to buy or use auto body refinishing materials, special spray booths, special paint guns, a special booth for cleaning the guns, etc. But rest easy, the EPA says this won't increase repair costs...

Would this rule increase the cost of professional repairs?
We do not anticipate that this rule will increase the cost of refinishing automobiles, either associated with collision repairs or with shops that completely refinish older cars. EPA has observed that most well-operated shops are already meeting the requirements being considered by EPA and it will likely not add any burden or additional overhead to their operating costs.:shakehead

[Wabbit]

I actually used the warranty paint protection I had on a car several years ago. It cost around $200, and they had to repaint my hood because something (I don't know what) got on my hood and dulled the paint. It was at least $500 of paint damage. If you have a child, sometimes the fabric guard will help with the spilled juices and puke. Wipes up without sinking in. Then again, leather works well too.

[chop456]

The Protector comes in a container the size of a bottle of aspirin and is basically just high end wax from what I could tell. I was a paint protection application engineer in high school. :gomer:

Did rustproofing too, after about 10 minutes of training. :gomer: :gomer:

Wax your car in the spring and fall and there's no reason for that stuff. Get a can of Scotchguard and spray the seats yourself. Now buy me some beer with the money I just saved you. :D

[G.]

Now buy me some beer with the money I just saved you. :D
I'll buy you a beer, or fourteen, regardless of your advice.

It's pretty much as I thought, don't buy **** from the dealer.

Thanks, all.!

[indyfan31]

I bought a new ride this wkend. the cheaper one (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/suvs/112_0707_hyundai_veracruz_lexus_rx350)

Of course they wanted to sell me extended warranty, rustproofing, etc.

The one thing that actually DID capture my attention was the paint protection. They mumbled something about new EPA paint rules and acid rain, bird crap, etc.

Anyone know what the new paint rules are? The car doesn't seem to be clearcoated, but I'm no expert.

Anyone ever get TheProtector link that doesn't really tell you anything (http://ecpinc.net/ecpframe.htm) and have been impressed with it?

Almost $600 for paint, leather, rust and undercoating/soundproofing. The paint gets Dupont PTFE coating.

Thanks.
Like the posts before me have stated, it's mostly a scam. Just about every car has a "clear-coat" finish. Wax it every 3 months (that's about all any wax lasts in normal conditions) and treat the leather yourself.

[chop456]

Oops - didn't catch the leather part earlier. Don't put Scotchgard on that. :D

I recommend Lexol (http://www.lexol.com/auto.html).

[Gnam]

Would this rule increase the cost of professional repairs?
We do not anticipate that this rule will increase the cost of refinishing automobiles, either associated with collision repairs or with shops that completely refinish older cars. EPA has observed that most well-operated shops are already meeting the requirements being considered by EPA and it will likely not add any burden or additional overhead to their operating costs.

:shakehead

It's ok, ese. The EPA, they don't work on Saturdays, holmes.

[Easy]

I just bought a TL Type-S and after negotiating a deal they send me into the GM's office to "go over my finance contract". He basically tried a bunch of textbook closes on me after I turned all their BS down. Eventually I asked him if they don't believe in their product and that's why they sell all the post purchase BS.

[G.]

I just bought a TL Type-S and after negotiating a deal they send me into the GM's office to "go over my finance contract". He basically tried a bunch of textbook closes on me after I turned all their BS down. Eventually I asked him if they don't believe in their product and that's why they sell all the post purchase BS.I love the "Really?!? I'm surprised that you would turn down this great offer." line.:laugh:

I told the guy that the last 2 cars I bought the finance guys were surprised too.;)

[RichK]

Eventually I asked him if they don't believe in their product and that's why they sell all the post purchase BS.

:D

Try this: "That's funny, your sales guy just told me how reliable this car is, and now you're telling me how badly I need an extended warranty. Which one of you is lying?"

[Sean Malone]

In the last 7 years I've purchased five vehicles from dealers, two foreign, three domestic. The foreign car dealers were much more modeled for a fast sale (almost too fast really, they want the papers signed and you out of the door before you change your mind). The domestic car dealers still have an "old school" attitude which I think really turns off todays younger demographic. You are passed from "lot greeter" to "sales guy" and he runs back and forth (depending how many counter offers you make) with the "manager" (some wizard of Oz in a tinted booth in the corner) until you get an agreed upon price and then off you go to the finance person to sign away and hear their spiel on add ons and warranties. One foreign dealer was able to bring the overall price down if I bought the extended warranty which is wrapped into the loan. I'm still trying to figure out how.

I’m used to the way domestic dealers do business and felt a little rushed in the foreign dealers, but I also got the sense that the foreign dealers were more forthcoming in their pricing, the domestic sales guys never “really” seem to know the price which means it’s very negotiable and I start very, very low and walk out at the slightest sign of a smirk.

I love buying cars.

[datachicane]

Snake oil.

[Wabbit]

In the last 7 years I've purchased five vehicles from dealers, two foreign, three domestic. The foreign car dealers were much more modeled for a fast sale (almost too fast really, they want the papers signed and you out of the door before you change your mind). The domestic car dealers still have an "old school" attitude which I think really turns off todays younger demographic. You are passed from "lot greeter" to "sales guy" and he runs back and forth (depending how many counter offers you make) with the "manager" (some wizard of Oz in a tinted booth in the corner) until you get an agreed upon price and then off you go to the finance person to sign away and hear their spiel on add ons and warranties. One foreign dealer was able to bring the overall price down if I bought the extended warranty which is wrapped into the loan. I'm still trying to figure out how.

I’m used to the way domestic dealers do business and felt a little rushed in the foreign dealers, but I also got the sense that the foreign dealers were more forthcoming in their pricing, the domestic sales guys never “really” seem to know the price which means it’s very negotiable and I start very, very low and walk out at the slightest sign of a smirk.

I love buying cars.

Funny, I always had problems with both. I usually looked around until I found a salesmen and a dealer that wasn't pushy and didn't mind selling me what I wanted rather then what was "on the lot". Do I always get the "rock bottom price", maybe, maybe not. Do I walk away happy with the price, usually. Guess that's why it took me a year to get what I wanted rather then what they were selling. The worst dealerships I've ever been at were Dodge/Chrysler, they were the pushiest 'tards around. The Honda dealership that I got my Accord from was the nicest. As I said, it took a year of looking and talking to find the one I wanted.

[rosawendel]

http://www.destgulch.com/images/fargo05.jpg

Yah, ya got yer, this loaded here, this has yer independent, uh, yer slipped differential, uh, yer rack-and-pinion steering, yer alarm and radar, and I can give it to ya with a heck of a sealant, this TruCoat stuff, it'll keep the salt off -

[Sean O'Gorman]

I almost bought a Mazdaspeed Protege a couple years ago, but passed after re-thinking my finances. I can't believe how dumb people are when it comes to payments ($250 a month, thats not bad, it only lasts until I'm 30!?), not to mention some of the crap lines you'll get. "I'll give you the extended warranty at employee cost" Will ya???? What's the full price on it??

I only bought one car at a dealer, some foreign guy ran it. I knocked $1,000 off my Integra, and he gave me a week after the vehicle purchase to decide if I was going to trade in my old MR2 (I ended up selling it for about $1000 more than he offered).

I've never seen the appeal in buying a new car, I wouldn't want to spend a huge amount on a car that I can get for alot cheaper used.

[JLMannin]

Several years ago, I looked into buying a Hyundai. I looked into the details of the powertrain warranty, and it required oil and tranny fluid changes EVERY 3,000 MILESat an estimated cost of $130 a pop to keep the warranty valid.

Now who on earth would actually do that?

I purchased a used Saturn SL1 instead (I still have it)

[oddlycalm]

Good call G., you don't want any polymer on your paint from the dealer. It prevents wax from working properly and neither will high quality polymer systems like Zaino, Blackfire, Menzerna, etc. But that's not the worst of it.

There is always crud in the paint from transport and often iron dust if the car was shipped via rail. The wash rack at the dealership isn't going to get all of it out, period. You have to pull it out with clay which is why the first step of every quality polymer system is to wash with Dawn dish detergent and a clay bar to pull out anything and everything in the paint so you are working with a 100% clean surface.

My detailer preps every new BMW and Volvo for the dealers in downtown Portland and there is a reason they use him even though it costs more than a shlock inhouse detail operation. He's showed me the amount of crap he gets out of new car finishes with a clay bar and it's a real jaw dropper. Not what you want sealed into your new car finish.

It's true that modern paint has to meet environmental standards when it's applied and it's true that it's not as hard as the oil based enamels of old. That said, putting cheap polymer on it isn't the answer. The only thing it does is put money in the pocket of an unethical dealer.

oc