Freddie the Grass?

[TrueBrit]

According to the boys on Speed this morning there are rumours floating around the paddock (that Varsha said they had confirmed with their sources) that Freddie attempted to blackmail McLaren into giving him sole number one status and to boot Lewis by the end of year otherwise he would throw them under the bus. So apparently Ron told him to go take a flying **** at the moon and the little rat bastard dropped the dime on his employer.

The question then becomes, exactly what the hell does Freddie expect his mechanics reactions to be? He just took food off their table and yet he still thinks his car will hold together? As Steve Matchett said this morning, if he were in a team that had one of their drivers do that he would have a hard time putting the starter motor in the car...never mind making sure the thing was bolted together properly...

If this is true, and at this point it is still unconfirmed, then it will have to go down as one of the dumbest moves by any employee EVER.

[extramundane]

If this is true, and at this point it is still unconfirmed, then it will have to go down as one of the dumbest moves by any employee EVER.

I'd say there's plenty of 'dumbest moves' to go around in this saga.

2008 is definitely Coulthard's year.

[SteveH]

From GrandPrix. com

Our spies in the FIA World Council meeting have revealed that there are going to be some surprises when the details come to light next week. We understand that the most extraordinary revelation will be in relation to the identity of the man who tipped off the FIA that there was additional evidence against McLaren: it was none other than Ron Dennis.

more at http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns19649.html

The story suggests that Dennis felt Fernando was going to rat them out so he contacted the FIA himself.

Either way, Fernando shouldn't expect to be in contention for the WDC this year, if true. If he felt the team was playing favorites before this, just wait. McLaren really has nothing to gain by having two drivers on the podium anymore. They can save face if one of their drivers wins the WDC. And that driver probably will be Hamilton.

[Methanolandbrats]

Fred ------------------>30 second pit stops :D

[ferrarigod]

According to the boys on Speed this morning there are rumours floating around the paddock (that Varsha said they had confirmed with their sources) that Freddie attempted to blackmail McLaren into giving him sole number one status and to boot Lewis by the end of year otherwise he would throw them under the bus. So apparently Ron told him to go take a flying **** at the moon and the little rat bastard dropped the dime on his employer.

The question then becomes, exactly what the hell does Freddie expect his mechanics reactions to be? He just took food off their table and yet he still thinks his car will hold together? As Steve Matchett said this morning, if he were in a team that had one of their drivers do that he would have a hard time putting the starter motor in the car...never mind making sure the thing was bolted together properly...

If this is true, and at this point it is still unconfirmed, then it will have to go down as one of the dumbest moves by any employee EVER.

thats been a rumor for a while now. that he brough more info to light. just never made sense to me as he used his emails and it seemed to incriminate him as well, which i personally would not want to do.

i'm sure we'll never know the whole story.

[TrueBrit]

just never made sense to me as he used his emails and it seemed to incriminate him as well, which i personally would not want to do.

i'm sure we'll never know the whole story.

That's my point too....if, as things are shaping up De La Rosa, Freddie the Snitch and Coughlan the engineer were swapping Ferrari info, it STILL doesn't implicate McLaren as a team, OR Uncle Ron...It DOES however put the subsequently fired engineer and those two drivers in a VERY different light...

Which makes the whole, Grass-keeps-his-points-but-McLaren-doesn't aspect very confusing, as it appears that is was the drivers, and NOT the team involved in the wrong-doing...

Either way Alonso is toast in that team...I don't think McLaren will fire his blackmailing ass, I think a more Dennis-esque payback would be re-affirmation of the terms of his contract and then give him a marginally inferior car for the rest of his career there...

[Easy]

That's my point too....if, as things are shaping up De La Rosa, Freddie the Snitch and Coughlan the engineer were swapping Ferrari info, it STILL doesn't implicate McLaren as a team, OR Uncle Ron...It DOES however put the subsequently fired engineer and those two drivers in a VERY different light...

Which makes the whole, Grass-keeps-his-points-but-McLaren-doesn't aspect very confusing, as it appears that is was the drivers, and NOT the team involved in the wrong-doing...


I'm sorry, but to imply that car development at McLaren is restricted to Mike Coughlan, F. Alonso and P. de la Rosa is ridiculous. Yes, they were the three involved in the communications the FIA has in evidence but to assume that no one else in the team was using this knowledge or didn't know its source is asinine. McLaren as an organization allowed this to go on and is therefore ultimately responsible.

[chop456]

It'd be funny as hell if McLaren can sack him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team even if he did the right thing. :laugh:

[TrueBrit]

Yes, they were the three involved in the communications the FIA has in evidence but to assume that no one else in the team was using this knowledge or didn't know its source is asinine. McLaren as an organization allowed this to go on and is therefore ultimately responsible.

Key word in your response "assume"

McLaren as an organization "allowed" this to go on? Really? There is no public evidence to suggest that anyone outside of the three identified had ANY knowledge of the intel...and in fact, as the report clearly states, when a fourth person was notified (Mr Neale) he immediately told Coughlan to STOP contacting Stepney.

Bottom line, as the FIA has stated they cannot PROVE that anyone other than the three McLaren employees mentioned had knowledge of the info, and they have been unable to PROVE that the McLaren cars benefitted in any way....but they still imposed a $100m fine and kicked them out of the championship for two years because they "don't believe McLaren's story".

That, is officially a bunch of bollocks...

The person that REALLY needs to have their head handed to them (other than De La Rosa and Freddie the snitch) is Neale. The moment Coughlan came to him he should have marched his arse into Uncle Ron's office and told him to spill his guts. Whatever you may think of Ron Dennis he is an astute businessman and the thought that he would KNOWINGLY engage in a CRIMINAL conspiracy is ludicrous to the nth degree...

This isn't the end of it by any manner of means...

[TrueBrit]

It'd be funny as hell if McLaren can sack him without pay for conduct detrimental to the team even if he did the right thing. :laugh:

Funny indeed...but it's not really clear from the report that Freddie The Snitch actually did do the right thing....

[Indy]

If true, if I were RD I would sit Alonso and De La Rosa on the bench for the remainder of their contracts.

I'll bet Franchitti would drive the remainder of the season for free.

[Tony George]

If true, if I were RD I would sit Alonso and De La Rosa on the bench for the remainder of their contracts.

I'll bet Franchitti would drive the remainder of the season for free.

Dario Judd? He would have a hard time beating the Superbestfriends cars! :laugh: :tony:

[Indy]

Dario Judd? He would have a hard time beating the Superbestfriends cars! :laugh: :tony:

I was trying to be funny, implying the ICS champ would drive for free, but the joke does not work, because any driver in AOW would drive for free, anyway. :(

[Boatdesigner]

If McLaren had fired Coughlan at the first instance of finding out he had the info, then called Maranello and arranged for the info to be returned and apologized (while making sure Stepney was identified), maybe it wouldn't have gotten this far.

I think the main reason for the decision is that after seeing the extra evidence from the emails, they felt that McLaren had lied to them in the initial investigation. I find it hard to believe that only the 2 drivers and Coughlan had this info. The only reason the drivers are the only ones being identified is because they got immunity. This is also the first time I have heard about the pit strategy being disclosed.

As for the "illegal" wings on the Ferrari, if they were "illegal" they wouldn't have passed tech inspection. How many times have we seen things become "illegal" only after a clarification of the rules or a new tech procedure is introduced? There is no such thing as a part that doesn't flex. The rule probably says that if 'X' weight is applied to the wing, it cannot deflect more than 'Y' amount. Most engineers would assume then that those are their minimum requirements that must be met and feel that if the part meets those specs and does the job intended, then it is fine. If the rule doesn't allow any flex, then the rules were written by idiots with no engineering knowledge.

[TrueBrit]

If McLaren had fired Coughlan at the first instance of finding out he had the info, then called Maranello and arranged for the info to be returned and apologized (while making sure Stepney was identified), maybe it wouldn't have gotten this far.

I think the main reason for the decision is that after seeing the extra evidence from the emails, they felt that McLaren had lied to them in the initial investigation. I find it hard to believe that only the 2 drivers and Coughlan had this info. The only reason the drivers are the only ones being identified is because they got immunity. This is also the first time I have heard about the pit strategy being disclosed.

As for the "illegal" wings on the Ferrari, if they were "illegal" they wouldn't have passed tech inspection. How many times have we seen things become "illegal" only after a clarification of the rules or a new tech procedure is introduced? There is no such thing as a part that doesn't flex. The rule probably says that if 'X' weight is applied to the wing, it cannot deflect more than 'Y' amount. Most engineers would assume then that those are their minimum requirements that must be met and feel that if the part meets those specs and does the job intended, then it is fine. If the rule doesn't allow any flex, then the rules were written by idiots with no engineering knowledge.

Fair enough, but 'finding it hard to believe' is not PROOF of wrongdoing...and that, I am sure, will be a part of McLaren's appeal. Absence of proof does not constitute guilt....

[Tony George]

I was trying to be funny, implying the ICS champ would drive for free, but the joke does not work, because any driver in AOW would drive for free, anyway. :(

True. Many of them would pay.

[Hard Driver]

If any of this is true, then Fernando is an idiot. He tried to blackmail his team? He wanted to get Lewis kicked off... yea, be real, the guy Ron Dennis groomed for years and years and has come into the team and is leading the championship his rookie year is going to be kicked off the team for you Alonso.... You really must be an idiot.

[Ankf00]

absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence

:D

[Gnam]

Freddie the Grass?


The term 'Grass' comes from the cockney slang for a policeman (copper) which was grasshopper.

Has the British Navy set sail for España yet? :p

[TrueBrit]

grass

noun
1. narrow-leaved green herbage: grown as lawns; used as pasture for grazing animals; cut and dried as hay
2. German writer of novels and poetry and plays (born 1927)
3. a police informer who implicates many people

[rosawendel]

As for the "illegal" wings on the Ferrari, if they were "illegal" they wouldn't have passed tech inspection.

i think that's a naive assumption. by that logic, the honda fuel tank / ballast lowering device was completely legal until it was discovered.

I'd agree there are rules clarifications throughout the season to address "grey area" interpretations of the rules (ferarri wings and their cute little shrouds not withstanding), but i'm sure there are plenty of outright illegal devices in the field that aren't discovered due to their subtlety of design and the complex and individualistic nature of each car. it's the nature of the beast.

[Insomniac]

Key word in your response "assume"

McLaren as an organization "allowed" this to go on? Really? There is no public evidence to suggest that anyone outside of the three identified had ANY knowledge of the intel...and in fact, as the report clearly states, when a fourth person was notified (Mr Neale) he immediately told Coughlan to STOP contacting Stepney.

Bottom line, as the FIA has stated they cannot PROVE that anyone other than the three McLaren employees mentioned had knowledge of the info, and they have been unable to PROVE that the McLaren cars benefitted in any way....but they still imposed a $100m fine and kicked them out of the championship for two years because they "don't believe McLaren's story".

That, is officially a bunch of bollocks...

The person that REALLY needs to have their head handed to them (other than De La Rosa and Freddie the snitch) is Neale. The moment Coughlan came to him he should have marched his arse into Uncle Ron's office and told him to spill his guts. Whatever you may think of Ron Dennis he is an astute businessman and the thought that he would KNOWINGLY engage in a CRIMINAL conspiracy is ludicrous to the nth degree...

This isn't the end of it by any manner of means...

I'm confused. Ron admitted to using the information to call into question some Ferrari parts in Australia. How did he do that if he had no idea what was going on in his team?

[Insomniac]

i think that's a naive assumption. by that logic, the honda fuel tank / ballast lowering device was completely legal until it was discovered.

I'd agree there are rules clarifications throughout the season to address "grey area" interpretations of the rules (ferarri wings and their cute little shrouds not withstanding), but i'm sure there are plenty of outright illegal devices in the field that aren't discovered due to their subtlety of design and the complex and individualistic nature of each car. it's the nature of the beast.

The Honda fuel was not legal. They said all the fluids must be drained for weighing and they didn't drain them all. That was the rule. They tried to show it was not possible to go below the amount left in the car but the FIA didn't care.

The Ferrari wings passed the inspection the way they inspected it. They were able to get more flex in a direction the FIA did not test. When they were alerted, they modified the test. Then those wings became illegal.

They both tried to circumvent the rules, but the key (and most important) difference is one passed the inspection and was considered legal.

[rosawendel]

The Ferrari wings passed the inspection the way they inspected it. They were able to get more flex in a direction the FIA did not test. When they were alerted, they modified the test. Then those wings became illegal.

What i'm saying is that the ferrari wings passed the test because they were designed to pass the test, not because they were legal. They were illegal when they passed the test before; ferrari designed them to pass the test, not to the rule requirement.

I just don't want anyone to think that just because a car passes tech it's 100% legal. In many cases, it's been designed with the testing procedures in mind, so that when tested it complies with the test, not necessarily the rules.

[TrueBrit]

I'm confused. Ron admitted to using the information to call into question some Ferrari parts in Australia. How did he do that if he had no idea what was going on in his team?

He found out, subsequent to the fact, that they are using an illegal wing...The drivers in their e-mails talked about it...that is how he found out about the illegal Ferrari..

[oddlycalm]

As Steve Matchett said this morning....EVER. Yes, the same Steve Matchett that said he was certain Stepney would never do such a thing.

Whether Alonso threw them under the bus is speculation at this point. The FIA news release has confirmed that the evidence was obtained from Alonso and de la Rosa, so that part is not in doubt. Whether external pressure was brought to bear on them is not clear. The FIA confirmed the Italian police had documented 288 SMS messages and 35 telephone calls to have passed between Coughlan and Stepney between March 11, 2007 and July 3, 2007 so the police and the FIA knew full well that there was a lot more to this than McLaren was letting on and that Coughlan's account was utter crap.

The drivers are certainly vulnerable to any pressure from the FIA as they can have their ticket pulled at any time. How many drivers would screw up their careers to protect a team that was cheating if confronted with that choice? How many of us would want to go down for the illegal activities of our employers?

oc

[TrueBrit]

But that's exactly the point...from what has been shown to have happened with documented proof, the only people that did anything illegal were Stepney, Coughlan, De la Rosa and Alonso...

There has been absolutely ZERO proof offered that anyone other than those mentioned even KNEW about the ferrari intel...

And if it makes you feel any better it was Varsha that said they had verified through their own sources...

So, Freddie grasses out his employer, his employer gets raked over the coals, and Alonso thinks his employer will continue to aid him in his quest to win races and future championships....Not very likely...

Oh, and as an aside, just how effing stupid are the drivers to be using e-mail to talk about stolen intel....:shakehead

[robot9000]

Before I go wax my 550 Maranelo lemme throw this out :laugh:

The real bad buys here are Stepney and Counglin. Stepney especially for being s traitor.

BUT - Couglin was a senior guy at McLaren and he SHOULD KNOW BETTER. He told his drivers, I am pretty sure he told others. At some point some ethics should have kicked in and someone should have put a corral around this. Did anyone think this was gonna stay a secret?

And I don't blame Pedro or Fernando. They may have gotten immunity for giving up the info they had, but it was gonna get out anyway. THEY didn't steal the info. THEY didn't accept it from the Ferrari guy. Yes, Alanso was fool enought to deal with the devil, but Couglin is the real bad guy here.

How anyone at McLaren thought they were gonna get away with this or thought they could just look the other way is pretty unbelivable. But at that level I guess they think they have the world by the tail and can get away with anything.

Wonder how the sponsor likes being lumped in with this? Their name is right up there in bold print: International Sporting Code – Vodafone McLaren Mercedes

I do think $100M is waaay steep. But you roll the bone and takes your chances.....

[Easy]

Common sense tells you that when something of this magnitude is going on in a corporation, its known outside of .03% of the company's employees. This isn't a US court of law, its a World Motor Sport Council hearing, innocent until proven guilty and beyond a shadow of a doubt are not at play here.

[SteveH]

It is now being reported that Dennis phoned the FIA with the new evidence during the Hungarian F1 weekend.

[TrueBrit]

Common sense tells you that when something of this magnitude is going on in a corporation, its known outside of .03% of the company's employees. This isn't a US court of law, its a World Motor Sport Council hearing, innocent until proven guilty and beyond a shadow of a doubt are not at play here.

Common sense? You aren't really suggesting that every CEO of every corporation KNOWS everything that is going in their companies are you? That would be pretty silly...

Court of law or not, someone just got fined a gutload of money...there had bloody well better be more than suspicions and assumptions behind it...

There is NO proof that anyone outside of those three McLaren employees had any knowledge of the info...

What's the solution, anytime an engineer says in a meeting 'hey why don't we try this?' the first question should be 'did you steal that from Ferrari?'..I don't think so...

There's a reason the cars all look similar, they are all working to the same set of rules...

[Ankf00]

Common sense tells you that when something of this magnitude is going on in a corporation, its known outside of .03% of the company's employees. corporate history tells us that while it may be more than 0.03%, it's not a whole bunch more.

[TrueBrit]

It is now being reported that Dennis phoned the FIA with the new evidence during the Hungarian F1 weekend.

Interesting...trying to beat Alonso to the punch, and also get ahead of the inevitable whinging from the prancing poofs team if SuperGrass spilled the beans...

What Uncle Ron SHOULD have done was immediately suspend Alonso and de la Rosa from driving as soon as the e-mails were discovered...afterall, THEY were the ones that had specific knowledge of, and acted upon, illegally obtained information...

[Dr. Corkski]

You start a thread based on rumor, and you keep asking for proof? :laugh:

[TrueBrit]

You start a thread based on rumor, and you keep asking for proof? :laugh:

Proof of McLaren's wrong doing yes...Whether Freddie is a blackmailing little cry-baby we'll have to wait and see...

[Dr. Corkski]

Coughlin is still a McLaren employee even after all of this.

[stroker]

I don't know about you guys, but I can't WAIT to hear Steve Matchett's take on all this.

[TrueBrit]

Coughlin is still a McLaren employee even after all of this.

Are you sure about that? I thought McLaren had given him some 'time off' as it were...

[cameraman]

Common sense? You aren't really suggesting that every CEO of every corporation KNOWS everything that is going in their companies are you? That would be pretty silly...

Common sense is what you are lacking. Your theory has Alonso and de la Rosa running the wind tunnels and the design software suites all by themselves. You have them turning the wrenches, mixing the gases and doing everything and anything else required to use that information all by themselves because nobody else at McLaren had any idea anything was going on. Good Lord, they are drivers, they can't do a damned thing to the cars or their design alone. Any information they have has to be given to those 300 gnomes who spend their days actually doing the work building those cars. Do you really think that an engineer is just going to accept weight distribution ratios values down to the 0.01 from a driver without wondering just exactly where those numbers came from?

[Gnam]

Ron Dennis + Baghdad Bob shop
"There are none Ferrari technology hereabouts."

Ron Dennis + Sgt. Schultz shop
" I see nothing. I hear nothing. I test nothing."

Ron Dennis = Basil Fawlty
Alonso = Manuel
"You'll have to forgive him. He's from Barcelona."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eceF9xvcvUo

[ferrarigod]

I'm sorry, but to imply that car development at McLaren is restricted to Mike Coughlan, F. Alonso and P. de la Rosa is ridiculous. Yes, they were the three involved in the communications the FIA has in evidence but to assume that no one else in the team was using this knowledge or didn't know its source is asinine. McLaren as an organization allowed this to go on and is therefore ultimately responsible.

that is a good point. IF PDLR had the info, and was willing to try it as stated
Mr de la Rosa’s e-mail to Mr. Alonso on 25 March 2007 at 01.43 identified a gas
that Ferrari uses to inflate its tyres to reduce the internal temperature and
blistering. The e-mail concludes with a statement (in relation to the gas) that
“we’ll have to try it, it’s easy!”.

then one would have to find Alonso and PDLR as part of the team, both testing and race, and would find that the car should be banned, any and all points.

If Hamilton is true to his word that he was not on the team or not with info as such for the team, then fine, but the team/Alonso should lose its points. It still doesn't make sense how Hamilton can have stolen info, and win with a car that has said info.

[ferrarigod]

3.22 The evidence before the WMSC is that Mr. Räikkönen (Kimi) actually stopped at
lap 19 at the Australian GP. However, the fact remains that Mr de la Rosa cited
this information as a reason to believe that Stepney was a reliable source of
information. This strongly suggests that McLaren had at least taken account of
this information in determining its own strategy.

So how can the drivers keep the points, when they knowingly went against the code of the Super License and the FIA???????

stunningly incompetent decision by the FIA. :shakehead

[robot9000]

So how can the drivers keep the points, when they knowingly went against the code of the Super License and the FIA???????

stunningly incompetent decision by the FIA. :shakehead

What, you never watched a Starsky and Hutch or Miami Viice episode? :cool: They always let the street dealer go to nab the drug lord. It says in the PDF that they gave the drivers immunity so they would cooperate and give up the cell and text messages.

Not like the 288 SMS messages btw Coughlin and Stepney weren't a wee bit incriminating (along with 700+ pages of proprietary Fiat info.)

I tend to lean with Cameraman here. Pedro and Alonso can't sneeze without 17 people involed in the Tissue Dispensary and Mucus Elimination exercise (TDME in F1 speak)

But $100M. Dang :eek:

[Insomniac]

What i'm saying is that the ferrari wings passed the test because they were designed to pass the test, not because they were legal. They were illegal when they passed the test before; ferrari designed them to pass the test, not to the rule requirement.

I just don't want anyone to think that just because a car passes tech it's 100% legal. In many cases, it's been designed with the testing procedures in mind, so that when tested it complies with the test, not necessarily the rules.

I agree. Would you consider the testing part of the rules since they disclose the exact procedure to the teams?

[Insomniac]

He found out, subsequent to the fact, that they are using an illegal wing...The drivers in their e-mails talked about it...that is how he found out about the illegal Ferrari..

Didn't they protest well before this whole scandal came to light? Why didn't he report it to the FIA?

[ferrarigod]

But $100M. Dang :eek:

sad thing, Ron could write a check today and never notice.

[pchall]

I was trying to be funny, implying the ICS champ would drive for free, but the joke does not work, because any driver in AOW would drive for free, anyway. :(

I'd certainly drive for free, and I haven't been in AOW since the fenders rusted off my 72 Malibu SS 396.

[Insomniac]

Common sense? You aren't really suggesting that every CEO of every corporation KNOWS everything that is going in their companies are you? That would be pretty silly...

Court of law or not, someone just got fined a gutload of money...there had bloody well better be more than suspicions and assumptions behind it...

There is NO proof that anyone outside of those three McLaren employees had any knowledge of the info...

What's the solution, anytime an engineer says in a meeting 'hey why don't we try this?' the first question should be 'did you steal that from Ferrari?'..I don't think so...

There's a reason the cars all look similar, they are all working to the same set of rules...

The WMSC is saying ultimately, McLaren is responsible for their employees actions. Maybe if they went to the FIA as soon as they knew (if Alonso or de la Rosa reported it when they knew) the punishment would've been less severe.

[stroker]

The WMSC is saying ultimately, McLaren is responsible for their employees actions. Maybe if they went to the FIA as soon as they knew (if Alonso or de la Rosa reported it when they knew) the punishment would've been less severe.


So why is it McLaren is responsible for the actions of their employees but Ferrari is not?

[Methanolandbrats]

So why is it McLaren is responsible for the actions of their employees but Ferrari is not?

Ferrari property was stolen.

[NismoZ]

Illegals? Cars? People? Sounds like we all know the rules and it just becomes a matter of (selective) enforcement. Pretty obvious here where I live.:shakehead

[patski]

Ferrari property was stolen.

By a Ferrari EMPLOYEE!

[Methanolandbrats]

By a Ferrari EMPLOYEE! Correct. Employee fired and probably prosecuted in Italian Court. Ferrari cannot gain an advantage by having it's intellectual material stolen. McLaren could gain an advantage by using stolen property.

[EDwardo]

Earlier today I read an extremely amusing,but completely absurd theory speculating about Freds' future. The theory postulates that Freds' F1 career is now effectively over. This will then result in Fred partnering up with none other than Roger Penske as a pilot of a third car in the IRL. According to this "theory", Freds' eventual goal is Nascar and he understands that he must notch an Indy 500 win to insure this.

And Anton George belongs to mensa, Bernie Ecclestone is poor, and the world is flat.




There is one thing I am sure of.

Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.
;)

[Insomniac]

So why is it McLaren is responsible for the actions of their employees but Ferrari is not?

Ferrari went straight to the FIA when they found out what happened. So even if you feel Ferrari should be punished because their employee broke the same rule Coughlan did, the information only flowed from Ferrari to McLaren. The WMSC might take it a little easy on Ferrari in that case.

[Dirty Sanchez]

no complaint has been filed against ferrari. so why would the FIA bother investigating them?? :gomer:

[oddlycalm]

I'd be stunned if McLaren did anything to sabotage Alonso's chances and open themselves to even more FIA scutiny. Alonso just krept up within 2 points in the WDC, all the exhaust gas from the political discussions aside.

oc

[Easy]

Common sense tells you that when something of this magnitude is going on in a corporation, its known outside of .03% of the company's employees. This isn't a US court of law, its a World Motor Sport Council hearing, innocent until proven guilty and beyond a shadow of a doubt are not at play here.


That should have been .03% of high level employees. Obviously the guy who snoops people's office trash cans for evidence of eating at their desks wouldn't know about this.

And yes, the CEO would have some knowledge of something of this magnitude going on at his company. If he doesn't he has lost all control and should be given his $25,000,000 incompetency payout like our friends at UAL.

[ilferrari]

looks like he wants out:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7003042.stm

[mueber]

Consider this view: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/09/17/sulking_alonso_will_defend_his.html