View Full Version : Just Like The Old Days
Bourdais and Bruno 1-2 at Sebring Monday. Bruno wants "Wilson's" seat at N/H/L:D (You believe he's NOT thinking about it?)
Power on top, Winslow 12th and last. Team Aussie looks strong with a 4th fast also for Pagenaud. Gommendy, Dominguez 2-3, Figge 5th ahead of PT then Rahal. 1 sec. covers the 1st 11, then another 1.1 to Winslow. Kid will need a lot of seat time.
Spicoli
09-26-07, 01:46 AM
the days no one gave a ****?
the days no one gave a ****?
No, the days someone gave a ****.
opinionated ow
09-26-07, 09:17 AM
Power on top, Winslow 12th and last. Team Aussie looks strong with a 4th fast also for Pagenaud. Gommendy, Dominguez 2-3, Figge 5th ahead of PT then Rahal. 1 sec. covers the 1st 11, then another 1.1 to Winslow. Kid will need a lot of seat time.
its a big step from a 2004 spec f3 car to a 2007 spec "champ" car. i seem to remember dan clarke being slow as a wet week early on in the piece too, and he was with better teams.
Oh, I agree. I really believe there is no dearth of talented drivers out there from a wide variety of locations. I just hope there is a CC still around in which they can land. I remember the teasing Gommendy and Doornbos took around here when few had ever heard of them and they seem to be doing fine.
Hey, some of these guys may never be the second coming of PT:D but it's fun to take notice right away just in case! I remember a kid named BJ Swanson years ago in F-5000 who was a certain "can't miss" star in the making. Met a tragic end at Mid Ohio, I think. Chances of that seem far less today where the tragedy is in many of these talents having no place to go or simply not enough money. I remember Al Jr. in Can Am at age 19 and KNEW he'd get to the top. Michael Andretti in Formuls Atlantic (Mondial) racing Roberto Moreno to the title in, was it '82 or 3? You KNEW they were headed to the bigs. I recall the first time I saw Vasser and Brian Till in the "slow" group of CART qualifying in less than top equipment but KNEW they had the right stuff. Well, Jimmy anyway.:) Never understood why Till didn't have more success but I thought he was really good.
So, will Winslow get the break he wants? Maybe only if the $$$/talent ratio is strong enough but I'll be paying attention.:)
opinionated ow
09-26-07, 11:34 AM
Oh, I agree. I really believe there is no dearth of talented drivers out there from a wide variety of locations. I just hope there is a CC still around in which they can land. I remember the teasing Gommendy and Doornbos took around here when few had ever heard of them and they seem to be doing fine.
Hey, some of these guys may never be the second coming of PT:D but it's fun to take notice right away just in case! I remember a kid named BJ Swanson years ago in F-5000 who was a certain "can't miss" star in the making. Met a tragic end at Mid Ohio, I think. Chances of that seem far less today where the tragedy is in many of these talents having no place to go or simply not enough money. I remember Al Jr. in Can Am at age 19 and KNEW he'd get to the top. Michael Andretti in Formuls Atlantic (Mondial) racing Roberto Moreno to the title in, was it '82 or 3? You KNEW they were headed to the bigs. I recall the first time I saw Vasser and Brian Till in the "slow" group of CART qualifying in less than top equipment but KNEW they had the right stuff. Well, Jimmy anyway.:) Never understood why Till didn't have more success but I thought he was really good.
So, will Winslow get the break he wants? Maybe only if the $$$/talent ratio is strong enough but I'll be paying attention.:)
i echo the sentiments exactly. I am fortunate to see many drivers (Aussie and Euro) pass through our local Formuld 3 series. Some of them are tops, others are just great people. Unfortunately, half the time the best drivers don't get a break. Last year's Champ, Ben Clucas (who only ran 6 out of 8 rounds and won 11 of 12 races!) is stuck without any real consist ride, and no money. Yet Ben is one of the best drivers in the world, no doubt about it. Rumours abound that Winslow is/was actually getting paid to drive in the Aussie F3 series!
one to keep an eye out for is Chris Alajajian. Chris is a mate of mine who will be racing for A1 Team Lebanon, and assuming they give him a decent car, he will likely pull off some giant killing runs. I had always hoped he would get an international break, because he is fast, smooth yet can be aggressive when he needs to be. At the Eastern Creek A1 round this year, he ran in the F3 support races, struggled in qualifying but came through the pack in both races. Highlight of the whole day was his outside pass in turn 1.
Love to hear stuff like that. Fun hearing eyewitness reports and opinions. Have to ask, what's the word from 'ol' Mt. Buggery about Tony Cochrane? (Aussi V-8 organizer) He was at Assen having what was rumored to be more than just casual conversation with KK and Stoddart. Now word comes he has sold his place on the Gold Coast. Is he being talked into coming our way!?:cool: CC needs HELP!
opinionated ow
09-26-07, 12:37 PM
Love to hear stuff like that. Fun hearing eyewitness reports and opinions. Have to ask, what's the word from 'ol' Mt. Buggery about Tony Cochrane? (Aussi V-8 organizer) He was at Assen having what was rumored to be more than just casual conversation with KK and Stoddart. Now word comes he has sold his place on the Gold Coast. Is he being talked into coming our way!?:cool: CC needs HELP!
cochrane is likely out of a job soon. booted out of his own organisation somehow. they want to replace him with a former nsw premier who knows bugger all about motorsport.
btw, mt buggery is actually a real place in aus! (so named because it is a bugger to climb!)
Crikey. I thought you were just yankin' our chain!
Love to hear stuff like that. Fun hearing eyewitness reports and opinions. Have to ask, what's the word from 'ol' Mt. Buggery about Tony Cochrane? (Aussi V-8 organizer) He was at Assen having what was rumored to be more than just casual conversation with KK and Stoddart. Now word comes he has sold his place on the Gold Coast. Is he being talked into coming our way!?:cool: CC needs HELP!
He's yours. Take him. Please. :gomer:
Who? Opi-ow or Aussie Tony?:D Straw grasping time!
opinionated ow
09-27-07, 10:57 AM
Who? Opi-ow or Aussie Tony?:D Straw grasping time!
i think he means tony. the bloke single handedly put the hammer into no less than 8 categories of racing that i loved.
i think he means tony. the bloke single handedly put the hammer into no less than 8 categories of racing that i loved.Well, then it's already been decided. I guess KK has hired him!:tony:
Now all we have to do is convince FTG that he MUST try to lure him away from CCWS and into the earl.
Or if KK's not interested in his promotional prowess maybe he just wants to unload PKV Racing. Team Aussie II ?
Who? Opi-ow or Aussie Tony?:D Straw grasping time!
Opinionated ow seems to have pulled his head in and his posts are starting to be worth reading, but no, I was talking about Tony Cochrane.
Tony Cochrane has ruthlessly taken the V8 Supercars from a semipro series to a fully profesional nascar clone. All the while taking 25% for himself.
The V8's have and are sucking the life out of motor racing in Australia by charging huge sanction fee's to circuits, who barely break even and promoting their own street circuit races that are propped up on taxpayer money.
He's just what Champcar needs. :\
Alrighty then, screw that idea. Makes sense that one runaway popular series can/will have an adverse affect on others and their fans. All I know is I thouroughly enjoy watching Aussie V-8s on the road courses and I never miss NASCup on them as well but I seldom watch the cookie-cutters and hate the vacuum cleaner effect 'Cup has had on other racing here. Thanks for a heads-up on the state of racing Down Under. Feeling your pain.
opinionated ow
09-29-07, 09:33 AM
Alrighty then, screw that idea. Makes sense that one runaway popular series can/will have an adverse affect on others and their fans. All I know is I thouroughly enjoy watching Aussie V-8s on the road courses and I never miss NASCup on them as well but I seldom watch the cookie-cutters and hate the vacuum cleaner effect 'Cup has had on other racing here. Thanks for a heads-up on the state of racing Down Under. Feeling your pain.
part of our problem is this ford-holden obsession. its seriously wanky and if you don't like one then you have to like the other :rolleyes:
for my money there are 5 really excellent categories out here, formula 3, australian gt (FIA GT3 Rules), formula ford (1600s i.e. wingless), saloon car championship (6 cylinder production ford falcon/holden commodore with minimal modifications allowed), sports sedans (transam cars or tubeframe car of open design-6L max engine displacement and a fibreglass body of a car that 1500 of were built in one year). unfortunately all go unnoticed. all apart from the ffords run with the shannons nationals programme which is the best circuit racing programme in this country, but is so poorly promoted that nobody goes...fford run with the v8supercrap but the v8 "fans" (i say that very loosely-they aren't actual motorsport fans) walk away if the "supercars" aren't on track. they go and get pissed some more usually.
Which reminds me of a post here awhile ago showing a lap at Mt. Panorama from '89 or so (??) from a Jag V-12, pre chicane! Loved it! Anyone remember that or how to find it again? Appropriate, since the big Bathurst round is just about upon us. (sorry if I jumped subjects but I think we'd all like to see and hear that one again.:) )
opinionated ow
09-29-07, 09:40 AM
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/thomaswarren/IMGP7770.jpg
this is one of those sports sedans. this one has a daytona 24 hour winning type jaguar v12 from the XJR cars. it has a 6 speed sequential and scream like an f1 car. pretty bloody cool. (not quite your jaguar i know, but well you know)
(not my best photo, but snapping this one at the rounds i have been two has been hard. it got wadded up bad very early in the piece at eastern creek, and broke down lots at oran park)
Wow! V-8 SuperCrap!:rofl: So, it's not an exclusive disease? I had no idea. I'll just try to enjoy the racing on SPEED this winter and ignore the politics. Would love to be able to see a couple of those other series as well!
Ahhh, there you go! Shades of Bob Tullius, Chip Robinson and Team 44!:D Curious. How do the lap times compare with SuperCrap?:)
opinionated ow
09-29-07, 10:39 AM
Ahhh, there you go! Shades of Bob Tullius, Chip Robinson and Team 44!:D Curious. How do the lap times compare with SuperCrap?:)
Track:
Category, Fastest Lap Details, Most recent fastest race lap
Eastern Creek:
Sports Sedan (<6000cc) Tony Ricciardello Alfa Romeo GTV-Chev 90.7301s (2005); 91.0039s (2007)
V8 Supercar Mark Skaife VT Commodore 91.7301s (1999); 93.6518 (2007)
Formula 3 Chris Alajajian Dallara F304 85.2280s (November 2005 when it was about 40°C!); 85.9269 (2007)
Oran Park:
Sports Sedan (<6000cc) Tony Ricciardello Alfa Romeo GTV-Chev outright unknown; 67.9098s (2007)
V8 Supercar Craig Lowndes VT Commodore 68.0531s (1999); 69.5080 (2007)
Formula 3 Ian Dyk Dallara F301 64.1140s (2004) 65.3950s (2007)
Philip Island:
Sports Sedan (<6000cc) Tony Ricciardello Alfa Romeo GTV-Chev 91.8804s (2005); 93.1703s (2006)
V8 Supercar Craig Lowndes VT Commodore 93.4389s (1999); 95.5114s (2006)
Formula 3 James Cressey Dallara F301 87.1923s (2003) 88.2088s (2007)
Queensland Raceway:
Sports Sedan (<6000cc) Dean Randle Saab 9-3-Chev 69.4165s (2007); 69.4165s (2007)
V8 Supercar Garth Tander VS Commodore 71.0033s (1999); 71.1314 (2007)
Formula 3 Michael Trimble Dallara F304 65.1159s (2005) 68.1423s (2006)
on average the home built sports sedans kick the bums of the million dollar+ supercrap lol.
opinionated ow
09-29-07, 11:41 AM
found your video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6618509877425244029&q=jaguar
and the thread:
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9923&highlight=panorama
the commentators for that are Steve Raymond and Alan Moffat. Moffat was a Canadian (hes an Aussie now) how came out here and made a career in touring cars. Steve Raymond (it could be his brother mike) were the guys who brought Sprintcars to Australia, upgrading from so-called modifieds to Sprintcars. Between the two brothers they promoted and called Liverpool Speedway, and at its closure, Parramatta. Steve still commentates there to this day (there was a couple of years hiatus in the middle). i think the voice you hear rarely is sandy roberts (who is frankly a moron...)
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p18/thomaswarren/IMGP7770.jpg
Duck tape holding the front bumper on... yep, a pretty accurate representation of a Jag car.
:p
The sports sedans faster than the big bucks cars. That's what I suspected and why I asked. Thanks! For the video, too. I liked the gear changes when they weren't so... instant!:)
found your video:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6618509877425244029&q=jaguar
and the thread:
http://www.offcamber.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9923&highlight=panorama
the commentators for that are Steve Raymond and Alan Moffat. Moffat was a Canadian (hes an Aussie now) how came out here and made a career in touring cars. Steve Raymond (it could be his brother mike) were the guys who brought Sprintcars to Australia, upgrading from so-called modifieds to Sprintcars. Between the two brothers they promoted and called Liverpool Speedway, and at its closure, Parramatta. Steve still commentates there to this day (there was a couple of years hiatus in the middle). i think the voice you hear rarely is sandy roberts (who is frankly a moron...)
Veni, vidi, vici.
Well, not quite, but Snappy Tom certainly showed the locals what a professional race team should look like. Those first years of Group A was some of the best motor racing I've ever seen. :)
Duck tape holding the front bumper on... yep, a pretty accurate representation of a British car.
Fixer that for you. :rofl:
Oh...I always thought it was oil spots on the driveway.:confused:
And Alan Moffat? Name from the past. Certain I saw him race here in the '60s, Road America probably. Early Trans Am perhaps? Maybe a Lotus Ford Cortina in the USRRCs at Meadowdale in '64-5?
opinionated ow
10-01-07, 11:59 AM
And Alan Moffat? Name from the past. Certain I saw him race here in the '60s, Road America probably. Early Trans Am perhaps? Maybe a Lotus Ford Cortina in the USRRCs at Meadowdale in '64-5?
highly likely, he is a Canadian (well Aussie now...but canuck by birth)
And Alan Moffat? Name from the past. Certain I saw him race here in the '60s, Road America probably. Early Trans Am perhaps? Maybe a Lotus Ford Cortina in the USRRCs at Meadowdale in '64-5?
Man, you must be old. ;)
Moffat did race in the USA in the 60's in Lotus Cortina's from what I can remember. Now I'm going to have to look it up.:gomer:
http://www.allanmoffat.com.au/again/fortherecord.htm
1964 Lotus Cortina Victorian Short Circuit Saloon Car Championship
1966 Lotus Cortina Sports Car Club Of America National Sedan Championship
http://www.allanmoffat.com.au/again/cars_Cortina.htm
Allan Moffat’s first serious race car was an ex Team Lotus Mk 1 Lotus Cortina, Group 2 homologation special.
In 1964 Team Lotus campaigned the Cortinas in North American sports car races for Ford, prior to the introduction of the Trans Am series.
Allan, who was working with the team, purchased one of the cars at the season’s end. He contested one sprint race at Mosport (Canada), before shipping the car to Australia.
First Australian Race: inaugural Sandown enduro, (Sandown Six-Hour). Allan finished fourth.
Next was the 1965 ATCC round at Sandown. The rest of Australia had selected V8 Mustangs and Allan didn’t have a chance.
He returned to the US for the 1965 season, bought another Team Lotus Cortina twin-cam and contested a series of races, including the Mosport Three-Hour and the Marlboro Twelve-Hour, with mixed results.
Allan then returned to Australia for the 1965 Sandown Six-Hour with some experience and a brand new Lotus. He led for a brief period, but suffered a failed diff near the end of the race.
Allan contested touring car support races for the 1966 Tasman Series and the South Australian Touring Car Championship before returning to the U.S. for Ford.
The Alan Mann Racing team replaced Team Lotus as the official Ford entrant to contest the newly created national Trans Am championship.
Ford wanted Allan to make a presence in one of the regional series, the Central Division championship. He won at Grayling, Mid-Ohio, Watkins Glen and Indianapolis Raceway, taking out the series.
In addition Allan contested some of the Trans Am rounds along side the Alan Mann cars. His first Trans Am was at Wentzville retiring after running third in the small car class.
His next Trans Am race was at Bryar, which was a tight small circuit that suited the Cortina. In the race Allan immediately took the lead in the Under Two-litre class and was third behind the V8s of Bob Tullius and Bob Johnson, eventually passing them both to take out a win.
In Virginia he retired after hitting a pole.
Allan enlisted the assistance of Harry Firth, who was having great results with the Cortina GT500 at Bathurst, as a driver and tuner for the last two Trans Am races that year.
At season’s end, with mediocre results, Alan Mann Racing quit the U.S., leaving Allan with its transporter, complete with two cars and equipment!
Allan, with the assistance of Australian Cortina specialist Jim McKeown, contested races at Daytona, before going on to Sebring, Green Valley, St.Jovite, Lime Rock, and Mid-Ohio without much luck.
He was finally hired by Mustang owner George Kirksey for a drive in the big car class.
Amazing. Actually I'm not THAT old, I just started this obcession while verrrry young!:D Never attended Mosport, Marlboro or Bryer but I could have seen him at IRP, Mid Ohio or Wentzville. Saw lots of Central Div. SCCA stuff. I mentioned the Meadowdale USRRC because I distinctly remember the Team Lotus Cortinas and how fast they were. I recall one driver, Trevor Taylor and how impressive he was. Can't recall the other team driver but they were both GOOD! So, Moffat had one of those cars and raced it in '66? That's the year I most likely saw him someplace.:) Now, whatever became of ol' Trevor?:D
opinionated ow
10-02-07, 09:52 AM
Word out here today is that the Sandown 500 (the only tolerable touring car race) has been removed from the V8 Supercrap schedule for 2008.
Somebody wouldn't knuckle under?:shakehead
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22527042-30540,00.html
Article about Cochane in todays Australian. :\
Andrew Longman
10-04-07, 10:08 AM
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22527042-30540,00.html
Article about Cochane in todays Australian. :\
The TV rights for Australia alone are worth $65 million over five years
Maybe the Three Amigos should consider selling the these Band of Brothers. Nice evidence that reviving a racing series CAN be done.
opinionated ow
10-04-07, 10:25 AM
Maybe the Three Amigos should consider selling the these Band of Brothers. Nice evidence that reviving a racing series CAN be done.
at the expense of every other category in your nation...
pferrf1
10-04-07, 11:22 AM
For all TC's issues, OWRS could do far worse than to bring in a guy like him (or a group like SEL) as partners in their business and help run the thing.
Andrew Longman
10-04-07, 11:37 AM
at the expense of every other category in your nation...
Would that include NASCAR? ;)
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