Invocations

[Kate]

I found my British friends' reactions to the Invocation at the beginning of the race to range from outraged (This is something Americans invented so we hate it) to puzzled (one guy actually said "That sounds very religious" and was abashed to be told what an invocation actually IS) to embarrassed. But all in all they didn't understand the reason for it and not a few of them didn't like it.

Personally I find this ritual soothing and I always pray that the drivers will come through safely and no one will be killed. There are a lot of dangers in motorsports and every advantage is a good one IMO. It also gave me a chance to have a very short word about the Lord with a friend when the subject would not have come up otherwise.

What do you and your friends think of the invocations and what comments have you heard?

[Napoleon]

Its an odd tradition, to say the least. I would like to know how it got started.

On a related note, why do we do the national anthem before sporting events, but no other group activity we participate in? Is this just us, or is it a world wide thing? Just think if we treated going to the movies, attending a theater, going to a speech attending a concert in the park or other such group activities the way we do a tennis match or basketball game.

[RTKar]

I had posed the question to someone at work one day, "Guess the sport where a prayer is said before hand?" She couldn't believe it when I said racing. I added that it's pretty much the only sport where the participants could die and that in the past crew members, officials and fans have suffered. She initially thought it was strange but then later during our discussion made the comment, "I guess you're right."

[rabbit]

As a protestant, I have a hard time when a Catholic priest says the invocation. That said, I don't scoff at it, but rather bow my head respectfully and pray in my own way.

I can understand how it might make someone uncomfortable, but I appreciate when people are respectful, even though they may not agree.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by rabbit
As a protestant, I have a hard time when a Catholic priest says the invocation. That said, I don't scoff at it, but rather bow my head respectfully and pray in my own way.

A club I am in starts meetings with a prayer. We have Christians, Jews and Hindus in it, and I am amazed when ocassionally one of the Christians whose turn it is to say the prayer uses the name Christ instead of saying God (its ussually the older guys and its simply something instinctive, not some kind of intentional slight).

[rabbit]

Originally posted by Napoleon
A club I am in starts meetings with a prayer. We have Christians, Jews and Hindus in it, and I am amazed when ocassionally one of the Christians whose turn it is to say the prayer uses the name Christ instead of saying God (its ussually the older guys and its simply something instinctive, not some kind of intentional slight). Not to turn this thread into a theological discussion, but there are many Christians who believe God and Christ are one. Jesus says in the scriptures, "I and my Father are one." Praying to Jesus or praying to God is the same thing to them.

[Napoleon]

Originally posted by rabbit
Not to turn this thread into a theological discussion, but there are many Christians who believe God and Christ are one. Jesus says in the scriptures, "I and my Father are one." Praying to Jesus or praying to God is the same thing to them.

I know (from 8 years of Catholic school).

[Joe in LA]

Originally posted by rabbit
Not to turn this thread into a theological discussion, but there are many Christians who believe God and Christ are one. Jesus says in the scriptures, "I and my Father are one." Praying to Jesus or praying to God is the same thing to them.

You are correct, but the Jewish and Hindu participants would probably find "God" to be a bit more universal.

[racer2c]

They say an invocation before races because God is a race fan. Duh.

[Kate]

Jews don't say G*d. At least Orthodox and most Conservatives don't. I can't speak for Hindus.

The National Anthem always was played at the end of movies when I was a kid. It is also played at the beginning and end of the television broadcast day.

Of course the other thing that they hated in Britain was the praise for our troops and the wish that they should be safe and come home soon. :shakehead:

[Railbird]

As a fallen away Catholic, and an old altar boy to boot, let me put my two cents in.


Playing the anthem before events started before America actually had an anthem. When the baseball players didn't march off to WWI the organizers started playing pregame patriotic tunes to offset any criticism.

I've heard some touching invocations, but for the most part it's just a chance for the local padre to ramble on imo. When they start being thankful for the sponsors and the weather I start wondering where the prayers for the cold beer should fit in.

I do believe that if you are going to call on a higher being in a public setting the term God should be used just to be inclusive.

[Lizzerd]

I believe the anthem before sporting events started in WWII at baseball games. Don't know about the invocation, but if I was a race driver, knowing that I might meet God face to face sometime in the next two hours, it would be comforting to hear.

[Fenster]

God forbid we hurt anyone's feelings by saying a prayer for safety before drivers risk their lives.:rolleyes: And for anyone to get offended because it's a Catholic priest or a Prot. is rediculous and petty. I could care less what kind of priest it was if he/she was respectfull to everyone's own beliefs (i.e. keeping it general or nonspecific).



--Fenster.

[TrueBrit]

Kate/Lulu not sure whom you were with but sitting with 40,000 of my closest friends in the stands not a one had a problem with the invocation. The prayer was short and to the point, the only murmur might have been the comment about the troops, but it was very respectful vis a vis "religiousity" in a country where religion is not something that is worn on one's sleeve and bandied about as the proof of one's own self-worth...

Fenster, in the UK, Protestant versus Catholic has a much deeper significance then here in the US...There are centuries of bad blood between the two religions...If you've seen "A Man For All Seasons" you'll get an inkling of how things started..Having been born and raised as a Protestant in the Church of England, and marrying a woman who comes from a deeply Catholic family it has actually never been an issue..There are many though who fell very different about it..

Arguments over religion are lost on me anyway, I always see them as being about as productive as arguing over who's imaginery friend is better..

And just for the record the biggest reaction from the crowd was having to the hear the French national anthem after Bourdais won..!!!:rofl:

[Kate]

Motorsport Ministries, the chaplaincy for both CART and IMSA, is mainly for the benefit of the motorsport community, and because they are a diverse lot religiously speaking, the chaplain has to be a diplomat. Just the stress that all the travelling puts on families would be hard enough without someone to talk to that wouldn't go to the media; and when accidents happen like Zanardi's or even like Fittipaldi's, there's nothing like prayer to bring people together.

I know that after Greg Moore was killed at Fontana, everyone appreciated the words spoken by the CART Chaplain and the drivers especially did, whether they had theological differences or not. In the end it's the same Guy standing on the top step, isn't it?

[FCYTravis]

I don't believe in the existence of any gods, so whenever there's an invocation at a race I attend, I simply respectfully stand quietly, out of respect for others' beliefs.

As for the National Anthem, that's a whole 'nother story... it was quite stirring to stand in my whites yesterday at Thunderhill Park's pit-out, hat to chest, headset around my neck...
I watched the sun rise high above the Eagle's Nest/Turn 5 flag, with the Star Spangled Banner on the PA... there's something that gets stirred deep in one's heart... that's when you know it's race day... ;)

[turn1]

Interesting discussion, though I feel the need to lighten it up a bit with a similar question - how did military fly-bys become part of most opening ceremonies?

[Kate]

TrueBrit, I was in the media centre.

[TrueBrit]

Ahhh..I see...I was with the REAL fans in the stands ;) hence the slightly different reaction then....:D

[RichK]

FCYTravis, if you are at Thunderhill for the race this weekend, stop by our paddock spot. Orange Formula Vee #19.

Rich

[pchall]

Originally posted by Napoleon
Its an odd tradition, to say the least. I would like to know how it got started.



One theory suggests that the invocation was an important gesture at a certain event in Indiana where some locals thought it was a desecration of Memorial Day to run a sporting event on the day that marked the hallowed memory of Civil War dead.

Of course, that is probably a too Indy-o-centric explanation to carry any weight on a CART forum. ;)

[Simple Norm]

It's interesting that no one seems to give a second thought to those who are not superstitious:shakehead

[RacinM3]

Although I'm not a religious person, it's comforting to hear it under the helmet after being strapped into the car before a race.

[Kate]

There are no atheists in foxholes --- or perhaps in race cars. I remember Gilles talking about the track at Zolder just 24 hours before it claimed him ... he said "It is so fast, all you have time to do is cross yourself and call for Mother."

Senna was deeply religious but I never noticed it stopping him from treating his teammate as badly as the worst infidel would -- or stopping him from lying about it either.

[tantra]

Hey, what ever helps folks get by is fine with me.

As a secular humanist, I don't even mind any more if some individuals rant about what they believe I believe and don't believe.

BTW, the old line about there being no atheists in fox holes was most likely invented by a religious person who intended to promote their personal view of things.
I don't believe that anyone ever went from hole to hole and asked the occupatants just what they believed. If someone can cite a well-founded survey as regards this assertion, please let me know of it.